[Screwston]

In terms of height and size. My grandma told me i look bigger from work the other day and showed me pictures of my grandpa in his boxing days. His upper chest was nicely defined, flat belly and had good sized guns. I could tell she loved that shit just from listening to her but i told her that he would probably be considered to small by a lot of girls in 2013 just because he was a thin guy. She didnt know what i was talking about.

When did.Americans become crazy with being huge meat heads? Its cool if youre a tall guy that has natural weight and can get massive with iron but girls would say Bruce Lee is to frail if he rose back from the dead. A lot of young guys would agree with them. When did the dream body become a 250 pound NFL player?

[Samseau]

I think this is location specific. Up here in the northeast seems like every guy is a skinny little bastard, and the women barely care. They still love muscles if you got em though.

[Screwston]

Maybe Samseau. Its just from my experience. Guys aspire to be linebackers and women expect that. i know it wasnt always like this.

[MikeCF]

Go to Google images and type:
renaissance art
greek statues

The idea male archetype/hero as being fit and muscular goes way back.

Women are soft. Men are hard. That's the natural order of things, anyway.

[Samseau]

(09-14-2013 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Go to Google images and type:
renaissance art
greek statues

The idea male archetype/hero as being fit and muscular goes way back.

Women are soft. Men are hard. That's the natural order of things, anyway.

I don't think Houston is talking about looking like a greek statue. Girls still love that, and always will.

But in some parts of the country girls want you to be jacked on roids all the time.

[pheonix500000]

(09-14-2013 02:49 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Go to Google images and type:
renaissance art
greek statues

The idea male archetype/hero as being fit and muscular goes way back.

Women are soft. Men are hard. That's the natural order of things, anyway.

I don't think Houston is talking about looking like a greek statue. Girls still love that, and always will.

But in some parts of the country girls want you to be jacked on roids all the time.

if you look at movies over the years how the majority of guys looked in the 1960's and now no homo, it isnt even in the same league in terms of muscularity,(eg thor) hell guys now have to look vastly different than how any male looked like up till 150 years ago to get ahead but girls protest if you want them to look like how they were for the majority of history which was skinny (unrealistic standards in their minds). my point is train hard, put yourself ahead of the curve the way you see fit and girls would still come.

[JimNortonFan]

I think Arnold and '80's action films had a lot to do with it.

[Basil Ransom]

Americans are more obsessed with success, with being perceived as being at the top of the food chain. Almost as if you're not in the top 10%, then you're a failure. So a good number of Americans try to prove to themselves they're top 10%. The body is no exception. Plus the girls are choosier, at least when fucking unknown men - they need to assure themselves that the guy they're dating fucking is a big daddy alpha. Probably the same thing goes on with height and penis size. I'm betting the extreme size queens get off more on the fact that they're fucking a guy with a huge penis, than the way it actually feels. Muscles is just one attribute, of course.

Also, while girls of all classes like muscle, lower class girls put more emphasis on it. A girl who runs with a rough crowd might write you off as a pussy for not having muscle, tattoos or piercings, while a little caveman action is enough to shake an upper class girl.

I'm not big, but I've gained considerable muscle. Personally, I enjoy the feeling of walking around with more mass. It makes me feel more rooted and present.

(09-14-2013 03:02 PM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  

if you look at movies over the years how the majority of guys looked in the 1960's and now no homo, it isnt even in the same league in terms of muscularity,(eg thor) hell guys now have to look vastly different than how any male looked like up till 150 years ago to get ahead but girls protest if you want them to look like how they were for the majority of history which was skinny (unrealistic standards in their minds). my point is train hard, put yourself ahead of the curve the way you see fit and girls would still come.

Yes, I think this is a big part of it. Many girls have been convinced by the media that a man without a lot of muscle is a 'lesser' man.

(09-14-2013 02:49 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Go to Google images and type:
renaissance art
greek statues

The idea male archetype/hero as being fit and muscular goes way back.

Women are soft. Men are hard. That's the natural order of things, anyway.

I don't think Houston is talking about looking like a greek statue. Girls still love that, and always will.

But in some parts of the country girls want you to be jacked on roids all the time.

Contrary to popular belief, there was some variation in the 'Grecian ideal.'

People like to cite David:



For one, a body like David's is impossible with the typical American diet and sedentary behavior.

Consider Hercules. Without steroids, it would take a naturally brawny man in peak condition to replicate a physique like that. It's not clear if the average man could ever get a physique like that naturally. His wrists alone look at least a standard deviation above the average, especially in Greece where the men are more gracile, as opposed to say, Scandinavia.

[Kickb]

It's the magazines and tabloids that make h's men self conscious about our bodies and makes us wany to get huge. It's the tabloids man

[Moma]

what's with the peckers?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Just for reference, here is Thor's actor (Christ Hemsworth) at the time of filming:



Representing roughly the ideal physique for women. He is not a roid monster, but he is huge nonetheless. David, Bruce Lee and Houston's grandpa would all be considered really thin (or average at best) to them. Of course, being defined and lean still counts, but in terms of size, they would be overlooked.

This is also not to say that this would mean that they wouldn't get laid, as female preferences don't put so much weight on looks (thank gods), but it would be a penalty for them. I believe this is due to the average western woman becoming more and more dominant and thus requiring an even more dominant guy to be attracted to. Muscles, height, tattoos and etc. are all external indicators of dominance, and the dominance threshold is constantly increasing.

LOL, Hercules has a fupa

[Bacchus]

America loves big things in general. Or at least, certain parts of the country do.

Cars like this:



Guns like this:



People like this:



Tits like these:



So it makes some sense that this body type would be popular:

[Giovonny]

It gives them a sense of power, which sometimes gets translated into more confidence, which they hope will bring more pussy.

Capitalism has been fascinating to observe.

[Cyr]

So it makes some sense that this body type would be popular:


[/quote]

That guy really needs to work his neck. The difference in neck size vs arm size in that photo is one of the things making him look like a clown.

[EisenBarde]

I have a really trim build, and I used to get a lot of teasing about it until one of my friends that's one of those vanity muscle types tried squeezing my arms as a dominance move.

He got the message after I gave him a swift jab to the diaphragm and he had trouble breathing for a minute.

You can build things up for looks, but the attraction I get after demonstrating functional strength is always deeper.

[MikeCF]

(09-14-2013 04:04 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

I have a really trim build, and I used to get a lot of teasing about it until one of my friends that's one of those vanity muscle types tried squeezing my arms as a dominance move.

He got the message after I gave him a swift jab to the diaphragm and he had trouble breathing for a minute.

You can build things up for looks, but the attraction I get after demonstrating functional strength is always deeper.

Oh boy. That's a bit much.

Are you doing muscle-ups in the bar to demonstrate this functional strength?

[EisenBarde]

(09-14-2013 04:05 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 04:04 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

I have a really trim build, and I used to get a lot of teasing about it until one of my friends that's one of those vanity muscle types tried squeezing my arms as a dominance move.

He got the message after I gave him a swift jab to the diaphragm and he had trouble breathing for a minute.

You can build things up for looks, but the attraction I get after demonstrating functional strength is always deeper.

Oh boy. That's a bit much.

Are you doing muscle-ups in the bar to demonstrate this functional strength?

There's that chord of split firewood that's always next to my house. Being able to use a wrench. Opening jars and shit. Climbing stuff.

I know that story seems kind of goofy, but the point I'm making is that there's guys that have the arms and can't even operate a shovel.

On the flip side the guy with the biggest forearms I know bends metal for a living and it's really impressive to see what kind of death grip he has.

[Kish]

Don't forget a HUGE wallet.

[iknowexactly]

(09-14-2013 04:04 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

I have a really trim build, and I used to get a lot of teasing about it until one of my friends that's one of those vanity muscle types tried squeezing my arms as a dominance move.

He got the message after I gave him a swift jab to the diaphragm and he had trouble breathing for a minute.

You can build things up for looks, but the attraction I get after demonstrating functional strength is always deeper.

I hope you were responding to him actually doing something that hurt you as opposed to him just genially grabbing your arm.

Taking a hit in the solar plexus is pretty uncomfortable.

[Kabal]

As women attain higher incomes, they choose men relatively more based on sexiness rather than provisioning-ability--it is unsurprising that as women care less about male provisioning abilities, men are going to compete less in climbing the corporate ladder and more in other arenas, like getting swoll.

Single, childless women in U.S. urban areas outearn their male peers.

Affirmative action and paper-pushing divisions like HR across Corporate America are doing to mainstream America what welfare has done to the lower socioeconomic classes--subsidizing female incomes, which distorts the female mate-choice calculus and leads to men competing in ways that are orthogonal or even detrimental to societal well-being.

[scorpion]

Guys complaining about women going for big, muscular guys remind me of plain-faced girls complaining about how pretty girls get all the attention. It's just sour grapes. If you were a chick, all else being equal, wouldn't you prefer a guy who was big and strong to one who wasn't? Of course you would. Just like how any guy would prefer a girl who was more attractive over one who was more plain. A man's sexual worth is almost entirely a function of how much power he can exert on the world in one way or another. That power can take many forms. Being big and strong is simply the most obvious and primal display of power a man can make, which is why it always helps in attracting women.

There's a lot of male hamster going on to rationalize this away, but it's just not so. Being big will always be better than being small. If you're small, you should try to get big. If you can't get big, you should just accept that you'll never have that advantage and look for other avenues to excel in. The good thing about being a man is that our value isn't tied into any one feature, like women are with beauty and youth. As I said, there are many ways to project power as a man, so play to your strengths. But a guy can never go wrong by getting bigger and stronger.

[pheonix500000]

The question that i want to know is anyone here currently have a physique similar to what is being discussed and how long did it take you to reach it. where did you start from and what is maintaining it like? Personally i'm a tall skinny bastard, i went from being skinny fat to skinny to normal to working my way up to what nate was before the bulk up at 182 but i know to reach that level it would take at least another year and a half. i know fitness is a lifelong commitment but as the workouts get easier to handle even when your pushing yourself as you get fitter and you recover faster, does your diet also become more flexible?

[Teedub]

(09-14-2013 05:14 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Guys complaining about women going for big, muscular guys remind me of plain-faced girls complaining about how pretty girls get all the attention. It's just sour grapes. If you were a chick, all else being equal, wouldn't you prefer a guy who was big and strong to one who wasn't? Of course you would. Just like how any guy would prefer a girl who was more attractive over one who was more plain. A man's sexual worth is almost entirely a function of how much power he can exert on the world in one way or another. That power can take many forms. Being big and strong is simply the most obvious and primal display of power a man can make, which is why it always helps in attracting women.

There's a lot of male hamster going on to rationalize this away, but it's just not so. Being big will always be better than being small. If you're small, you should try to get big. If you can't get big, you should just accept that you'll never have that advantage and look for other avenues to excel in. The good thing about being a man is that our value isn't tied into any one feature, like women are with beauty and youth. As I said, there are many ways to project power as a man, so play to your strengths. But a guy can never go wrong by getting bigger and stronger.

Good points, as usual. However, there's "big" and then there's odd. Perhaps it's different in Europe, hence this thread, but you understand my point. What is ideally big?

[Hades]

Being big is a variable that is judged by everybody, can be done so immediately, attracts a lot of attention, and is indicative of a great achievement. If it was easy, everybody would look like Ronnie Coleman.

[OGNorCal707]

Damn I spent like 40 minutes typing a long reply to his thread, only to have the forum crash when I hit post. Oh well, in short read "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley it's all biological instinct, and occurs throughout the animal kingdom, women have a preference for alpha males who are dominant in the male hierarchy. If you can't be dominant due to height or muscles than try to build yourself up in other ways.