[reaper23]

(09-16-2013 05:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So am I understanding it correctly, that if you decide to go on TRT you are basically signing up to be on it for the rest of your life? Because it slows down/shuts down your body's natural production of test? That's a pretty serious commitment. What would happen if you were on TRT for a few years then suddenly stopped for some reason? Would your natural test levels just be abysmal from then on, or would your production slowly recover to at least a normal level?

you've got the timing of events wrong

your natural production of test is what is fucked in the first place, so yes you go on TRT and it supplants what production may have been left.

but you're feeling better than if you didnt.

doctor says you can come off any time, if you want to go back to feeling shitty!

and yes there are 'coming off' protocols that involve HCG and clomid which work to restore the HPTA system but it wont be better than it was, which was shitty in the first place

[reaper23]

(09-16-2013 05:25 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So am I understanding it correctly, that if you decide to go on TRT you are basically signing up to be on it for the rest of your life? Because it slows down/shuts down your body's natural production of test? That's a pretty serious commitment. What would happen if you were on TRT for a few years then suddenly stopped for some reason? Would your natural test levels just be abysmal from then on, or would your production slowly recover to at least a normal level?

you've got the timing of events wrong

your natural production of test is what is fucked in the first place, so yes you go on TRT and it supplants what production may have been left.

but you're feeling better than if you didnt.

doctor says you can come off any time, if you want to go back to feeling shitty!

and yes there are 'coming off' protocols that involve HCG and clomid which work to restore the HPTA system but it wont be better than it was, which was shitty in the first place

[PoosyWrecker]

(09-15-2013 04:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Seriously what the hell is the point of shooting yourself up with steroids and dedicating so much time and effort to get huge?

NEVER understood this.

Well look at it this way, what happens to old guys? Sarcopenia turns them into skin and bones, or they'll break bones doing something like tripping over a sidewalk curb. A lifetime of heavy lifting and juicing will create strong, dense bones and muscle loss won't affect a man who is 15 pounds over his genetic limit (on top of the 25 - 30 lbs more muscle over his peer group that played golf) than it would for a man who didn't lift because he was worried about the opinion of other, average men. The bigger and stronger you get the more you can afford to lose to old age.

[Pyre]

(09-16-2013 05:33 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

I won't go off on my normal cycling is pointless better to b&c tirade but tren can bring out anxiety in some for sure. Did you use prami or caber? Prami is better for anxiety but caber better for your libido, likely prolactin is fucking with your libido but depending on test dose it could be estrogen but I'm guessing you used a low dose of prop so that's probably unlikely. Grab some triptorelin, 100mcg in one poke and you'll combat shutdown. You can keep going with the daa and ostarine if you want but they're not necessary...trip with nolva can take care of ya on their own, a poke and a little time and you're back, nolva to keep estro rebound in check.

cool, gonna pick up that pep. was about to pick up some mt2 anyway. trip is subq in belly fat?

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 10:33 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

As for compounds you should be looking at, for recovery nothing beats gh but it's expensive and requires time to build, best used for a min of 3 months and the longer you go the better it gets but for 3iu a day, youd be looking at between 700-1000 bucks a month. Thats for real fda gh, none of that generic garbage out of china that doesnt do anything and fucks with your health.

The Riptropin kits that were floating around a year or so ago were the real deal. They were praised by those in the know and also lab work supported them.

You're on GH15, I assume...

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 03:04 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

Trt is no picnic.

Why not?

You inject 1/2 to 1 cc every 5-7 days.

Get blood work to ensure everything is normal.

No real estrogen side effects so an AI isn't even really needed and gyno is no real concern.

Give blood if blood counts are high.

TRT seems like the easiest thing in the world to do, especially if you're getting Rx test and not having to worry about the authenticity of underground lab stuff.

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 01:01 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

I'm weary on the if you don't feel like shit part, as most guys become so used to being low test that they dont know what its like to be within normal ranges to high levels.

This.

The parallels to game and TRT are identical.

Guys just take it for granted that they feel like shit, just like guys take it for granted that getting laid is "about getting lucky" and that "women cannot be understood."

You say, "Take the golden oil," and they are raging at you just like a blue pill beta rages about game.

At least we've driven out most of the anti-muscle trolls. A few months ago you and I discussed how you couldn't even have a normal discussion on RVF as guys who "swallowed the red pill" would just repeat feminist nonsense about TRT and AAS.

It's good that the community is waking up.

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 01:23 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Americans are really lucky when it comes to TRT. Europe is still in the stone age when it comes to this. They won't Rx you crap unless you have the test level of a 1 year old girl.

In Europe you can legally possess steroids, you just can't be a dealer. Guys who get busted with AAS lie about why. They say, "I just had some vials!" when the truth is that they would pick up stuff for 4-5 friends, mark up the cost, and then get their vials for free.

Buying for others = your'e a dealer. Buying for yourself = simple possession. The legal consequences are immense, which is why anyone who asks to "go in" on your order should be told to get fucked.

Varies by country, of course. I do not know the laws of every European country.

You just have to be smart and do your own blood work.

It's not hard to learn how to read a lab test. There's ample info out there.

In today's era, you need to learn how to be your own doctor.

If you go to a doctor with a broken bone, they can make you normal.

If you're normal or feeble and say, "I want to be more than I am!" They can't and won't help you.

It's a philosophical bias/moral judgment. It's not OK in today's world to try to make yourself better than nature wants you to be.

[reaper23]

(09-16-2013 07:11 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 03:04 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

Trt is no picnic.

Why not?

You inject 1/2 to 1 cc every 5-7 days.

Get blood work to ensure everything is normal.

No real estrogen side effects so an AI isn't even really needed and gyno is no real concern.

Give blood if blood counts are high.

TRT seems like the easiest thing in the world to do, especially if you're getting Rx test and not having to worry about the authenticity of underground lab stuff.

sure all that is true.

but after a while i stopped looking forward to my shot

i used to get all excited about it

now its just another time i have to stick myself with a needle.

no it doesnt hurt, but it aint that fun either.

you know me, i've been on ace before so pinning isnt something i necessarily shy away from, just saying that pinning every week forever...sigh...just would be easier not to do it.

getting the right protocol dialed in isnt easy either. as you know i've experimented with hcg and suffered serious bloat, couldnt get the dose right so just dropped it. and i seem to be particularly estro sensitive because even 100 mg test cyp causes me to hold about 3-5 lbs extra water which dissipates over the course of the week only to spike back up again day 2 after pin.

but hell yes, i'm as big of a proponent for TRT as there is. changed my life for the better.

[Duke Castile]

Googled turinabol, stuff sounds great actually.

I'm guessing it's manufactured in underground labs though. Anyone know anything about this?

I'm down for some HGH.

I'll go get tested for T. If I'm in normal range I'm not taking it unless I absolutely have to.

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 07:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 10:33 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

As for compounds you should be looking at, for recovery nothing beats gh but it's expensive and requires time to build, best used for a min of 3 months and the longer you go the better it gets but for 3iu a day, youd be looking at between 700-1000 bucks a month. Thats for real fda gh, none of that generic garbage out of china that doesnt do anything and fucks with your health.

The Riptropin kits that were floating around a year or so ago were the real deal. They were praised by those in the know and also lab work supported them.

You're on GH15, I assume...

lol gh15 is thrown around like a bad word...I've been around a long time and I used a lot of generic kits before I wised up, lots of wasted money unfortunately wanting to believe they were safe and real, I was on pro m when all that testing was done contributed to it but truth is I don't know how far I trust those tests anymore, unfortunately a true test needs to be independent but run by the mods there, on the payroll of pro m to promote easily outside of ip their biggest clients...once you find out the behind the scenes stuff at pro m it's shady, most of the sources are multiple labs and have put out shady shit only to come back as new labs, and the kickbacks all the mods are offered to push shit, it's a huge moneymaker pro m check out big as cars lol he isn't gonna shoot his prized horses...I bought the hype back then used the rips, elis and no fda gh has ever made me look or feel like rips, I was a bloated pufferfish the impurities running thru that stuff was apparent. Provider even referenced that fact later when he said we keep it less pure to keep potency high. Well I don't know about potency but I know that it raised my blood pressure so high that I had to get off them, tho I would've made the choice the way the water came on. Elis just flat out did nothing, and the serum tests were terrible. The more I worry about my health the more those generics scare me, many test as 0 and they're full of fillers and manitol and diuretics and peptides to mimic gh side effects anything to make a buck.. I prefer to know what goes in, some sort of regulated process. Osiris became a scamming snake but that dude used to kiss the ass all those suppliers for hook ups that'd he flip but he used to tell me he only used seros himself outside serum tests. So even those in control weren't using the stuff they were hyping. If a generic worked for me trust me I'd love to save the money gh15 or not, I am a member of his forum because he definitely knows his shit, one of my boys got his pro card after applying some of the advice we got there with slin but he doesn't pay my bills so I speak my mind not tow any forum line. Generics make me nervous on another front, if they are as potent as the serum tests would have us believe and guys are using mega doses, most of the time without slin as so many on the forums are deathly afraid of slin, few to none are developing diabetes, that elevated a blood glucose level should have brought on diabetes quick but nobody anywhere is developing anything, they can't be the real deal, fda gh you get into the 10ius a day range within a year you'd be a type 2 diabetic if you didn't run slin with it, my endo at 5ius a day after my first 6 months on fda gh told me to either cut it out or get on slin as my bg was climbing. Something with the generics doesn't add up. The pros all use fda gh as well, if the guys who can use anything choose it, there's a reason. Just enough reasons for me to stay with fda but everybody is free to reach their own conclusions, its not like I make any money off fda gh so if you got great results of rips you're luckier than i was.

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 10:02 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

lol gh15 is thrown around like a bad word...I've

That was quite a rant. Sometimes on the Internet guys tend to answer questions that weren't asked, under the assumption that it's a hostile question and they need to preempt it.

But when have I ever been passive aggressive or played that game?

I am pro GH15. So I take it that you are a member there. Heh.

Pros use FDA GH because they are sucking dick and getting turned out by gays and thus can afford it and they have the connections.

I'd love to have FDA GH. Good luck getting that as a "civilian."

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 07:15 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 01:01 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

I'm weary on the if you don't feel like shit part, as most guys become so used to being low test that they dont know what its like to be within normal ranges to high levels.

This.

The parallels to game and TRT are identical.

Guys just take it for granted that they feel like shit, just like guys take it for granted that getting laid is "about getting lucky" and that "women cannot be understood."

You say, "Take the golden oil," and they are raging at you just like a blue pill beta rages about game.

At least we've driven out most of the anti-muscle trolls. A few months ago you and I discussed how you couldn't even have a normal discussion on RVF as guys who "swallowed the red pill" would just repeat feminist nonsense about TRT and AAS.

It's good that the community is waking up.

here here. Got to the point where I'd see a weightlifting thread and just skip it, it was too much of a headache to deal with. Nice to see guys coming around and opening their minds up to the realities of having an elite body.

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 10:02 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

lol gh15 is thrown around like a bad word...I've

That was quite a rant. Sometimes on the Internet guys tend to answer questions that weren't asked, under the assumption that it's a hostile question and they need to preempt it.

But when have I ever been passive aggressive or played that game?

I am pro GH15. So I take it that you are a member there. Heh.

Pros use FDA GH because they are sucking dick and getting turned out by gays and thus can afford it and they have the connections.

I'd love to have FDA GH. Good luck getting that as a "civilian."

hahaha, sorry you wouldnt believe how many times I get flamed for the gh15 stuff I get hypersensitive. Apologies.

I am a member there absolutely.

lol not all pros suck dick, some just cozy up to aids patients Connections help, im paying blackmarket retail like a sucker till I can find me an aids patient, I don't think there's enough savings in the world to make me go g4pay.

[Menace]

FDA = food and drug admin or something else?

[MikeCF]

(09-16-2013 10:09 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

here here. Got to the point where I'd see a weightlifting thread and just skip it, it was too much of a headache to deal with. Nice to see guys coming around and opening their minds up to the realities of having an elite body.

It is frustrating work, but we have to wake the masses up.

When the masses wake up, legalization can become a possibility.

Look at TRT for an example.

I have known about and preached TRT over over 10 years. Doctors were against it and everyone called me an idiot.

Now there are commercials for "low T" and anyone with half a brain can get a legit script.

[reaper23]

mikeymike - you talking about professionalmuscle?

what do you think about phil hernon and the peptides he is pushing?

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:14 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 10:09 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

here here. Got to the point where I'd see a weightlifting thread and just skip it, it was too much of a headache to deal with. Nice to see guys coming around and opening their minds up to the realities of having an elite body.

It is frustrating work, but we have to wake the masses up.

When the masses wake up, legalization can become a possibility.

Look at TRT for an example.

I have known about and preached TRT over over 10 years. Doctors were against it and everyone called me an idiot.

Now there are commercials for "low T" and anyone with half a brain can get a legit script.

Sadly we're fighting an uphill battle, no money in legalizing, the more individuals are fat and sick, and depressed about it, the more they're spending on health care, the more big pharmas making money. If people were getting results from working out they might be inclined to stick with it and get fit. Can't be having a healthy nation not good for the bottom line. The anti steroid crowd have done a hell of a job at demonizing them, otherwise smart individuals who usually think for themselves become walking talking parrots when it comes to aas, spouting irrational fears...steroids don't have great marketing , when the posterboy for aas is Ronnie Coleman instead of Brad Pitt you know you're in trouble with the general audience lol

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:23 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

mikeymike - you talking about professionalmuscle?

what do you think about phil hernon and the peptides he is pushing?

omg I caught shit on that forum for calling his folli bullshit and sure enough tested as bullshit. I wouldn't buy a peptide off him ever, he's a snake, had loads of potential as a pro but now just lives a lie pushing his shit as the answer to guys bb'ing goals, he'll push whatever to make a buck...couldn't believe guys were poking his cavarject peptide into their cocks...there are legit peptide agents, head to dats forum he's got a real peptide guy and his is quality if you really want some peps. I don't bother but he's the only one id trust.

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:14 PM)Menace Wrote:  

FDA = food and drug admin or something else?

bingo.

[MikeCF]

Professional muscle = garbage

Afboard and gh15 = legit.

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:02 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Googled turinabol, stuff sounds great actually.

I'm guessing it's manufactured in underground labs though. Anyone know anything about this?

I'm down for some HGH.

I'll go get tested for T. If I'm in normal range I'm not taking it unless I absolutely have to.

sorry I missed this earlier, Turinabol is basically dbol that doesn't bloat, strength gains, some lean muscle gains but again for an active individual it's gonna be hell. Shin and calf pumps while running, jumping, which im not a crossfit guy but I believe is part of the deal. Not to mention lower back pumps which the dbol guys can probably attest can be a pain, nothing like fucking and having your back seize up on ya lol. Active sports and orals aren't great mixes, embrace oils and the needle fisto, they're easier on the body and far more bioavailable than an oral, just gotta get over the fear of a little prick.

[mikeymike]

(09-16-2013 10:41 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Professional muscle = garbage

Afboard and gh15 = legit.

this.

and please everybody don't bring up bb'ing.com or elitefitness, do yourself a favor and avoid them.

[Hades]

Yeah, I'm a believer in "natty" fitness but I'm not going to hate on steroids, hgh, exogenous testosterone, or anything like that because it's damned good information here (where else but the internet can you discuss stuff like this?) and I'm probably going to be on it once I'm 55 or 60 and the realization hits that my best years are long behind me and I have old age to look forward to. Now there's ways to prolong health and strength into old age, like getting diet, supplements, and lifestyle tuned in properly, but if you go hard shit must inevitably break down.

My family has a history of male depression and I suspect a big component is lifelong low baseline of testosterone. A big part of the RVF is that if your situation sucks or you're pretty sure it's going to, you should research and implement solutions to improve your own situation and learning about drugs is a big part of this. It's a self-limiting and ignorant viewpoint to discount something completely without knowing all of your options. It's also asinine to ignore the enormous contributions of drugs in the history of sports.

Besides which, if other lifters want to do this, it's a big decision to make and I can trust that they have their own reasons.

[roid]

(09-17-2013 12:10 AM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(09-16-2013 10:41 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Professional muscle = garbage

Afboard and gh15 = legit.

this.

and please everybody don't bring up bb'ing.com or elitefitness, do yourself a favor and avoid them.

Off topic...

I tried to register to gh15 website but it's always saying that the mod will review and approve my registration before I can enter. For months, it's still like that. How do I enter the site?

Edit: approved already