[Spider]

(09-14-2013 04:58 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

^ So childish.

How many 65 year old bodies have you seen? Have your "all natural" grandpa take off his shirt for you and tell me what you see.

What the fuck exactly do you guys think is going to happen to your bodies?

You are decaying organic matter, and you're decaying rapidly.

Live it up, because old age, saggy skin, and dementia is coming for us all.

I've seen plenty of men in their 60's shirtless (no homo).

While plenty of them look saggy and 'decaying,' the ones who have always been fit and muscular (but not huge and roided), and still work out and eat healthy, are generally less flabby then those who used to be absolutely huge.

Mark Sisson, for example, is 58, is extremely health conscious, and looks better than most guys who work out in their 20's. He's not Arnold big, nor ever was, but he still looks great.


Of course most guys will never look anything like this at age 60, but there are plenty of older guys at my gym (in their 50's and 60's) who are still fairly cut.

I think if they were ever at the size that most bodybuilders are, staying lean and ripped would be nearly impossible.

[MikeCF]

^ Sisson isn't natural.

Arnie could get on HGH and his skin would take on that glow.

Sisson is a testament to smart drug use.

So is Stallone. As is Dr. Life.

If you want to use an example of a guy on HGH (Sisson) against someone who is not (Arnold), then you're not really making a smart comparison.

[007]

Agreed.

These cats are on a trt regime of testosterone, hgh and possibly even thyroid hormones. Smart trt can and will extend the quality of your life.

(09-14-2013 06:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

^ Sisson isn't natural.

Arnie could get on HGH and his skin would take on that glow.

Sisson is a testament to smart drug use.

So is Stallone. As is Dr. Life.

If you want to use an example of a guy on HGH (Sisson) against someone who is not (Arnold), then you're not really making a smart comparison.

[mikeymike]

lol at thinking Sisson was natural, this is the problem with most mainstream individuals, quick to criticize the enhanced but really have no idea of the different looks of enhancement. Not everybody wants to look 300 pounds but there's grams upon grams of drugs involved just different drugs to look 6% bf year round with just a lean physique model look....in truth I could get a kid from 150 pounds skinny to 200 solid with less gear than it'd take to get a fat 200 pounder down to 160 ripped... If you keep using you fight time off as long as possible, if you stop it'll catch upto you and that's all that happened with Arnold but a short time back on for his movie career and he's looking good again, just posted a selfie like this week, got that reddish gh hue goin...The power of good ole fashioned fda gh and quality gear.

my favorite 60+ year old bigger his entire life, still got it at 60, Andreas Kahling. So size doesn't have to mean you go to shit, like it always is in bb'ing, consistency, if you keep it up, you'll look kept up, if you stop, your look drops off.

[MunichSux]

(09-14-2013 11:14 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 10:04 PM)MunichSux Wrote:  

The problem is obviously once you have to get off for the rest of your life, once stretched skin becomes sagging as what you've gained chemically enhanced is lost when you go 100% natty. Arnold Schwarzenegger comes to mind - didn't age well.

Perhaps (like you?) he should have lived a live of mediocrity in his 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s so that his skin might look at little bit better on his 65th birthday?

Ouch, the "bro crowd" takes revenge. Basically the point was and is that strength training's enormous benefits are now widely known ... Arnold and Joe Weider deserve some credit for this. However, the chemically enhanced route throws all the benefits out of the window, and again Arnold and Joe Weider deserve some credit for this unfortunate development with Arnold obviously lending his name to the "Arnold Classics" and being an important part of the Weider empire.

Read e.g. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...671&page=1 (Open letter from Steve Reeves to Schwarzi)
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/leelabrada.htm (Interview with Lee Labrada)

[WanderingSoul]

I think Arnold hadn't been taking care of himself so well when that photo in the speedo was taken.

I don't know how many of these guys do or do not use gear, but they look great for their age. Whatever they are doing at their age, more men should also be doing.

[Vicious]

If you look like the guy in the last picture you're doing better than 99% of any given country's population.

A lot of people I've trained with wanted to look like body builders but substitute discipline with substances. These were dudes that were doing dbol (this was 10+ years ago) while only hitting they gym 3-4 times a week and partying every weekend.

[MunichSux]

The first three guys you posted pictures of are all "on" (google for Stallone + HGH + testosterone, the guy in the first picture has this "swollen" look typical for roid users and the other guy is a former training partner of Schwarzenegger ... enough said).

Vicious is basically echoing what I believe, too - the guy in the last picture hasn't even outstanding genetics, but simply keeps a low enough bf ratio for some visible definition and has some muscle tonus. Am almost 100% sure he's clean and always was.

"The golden eagle" Tom Platz on roid abusers: "Most of them look like shit, and perform like shit".

An interesting interview with him - from 1988; he was 2 months off when the interview took place - how his performance decreased when going "off" (mind you, he's obv. a genetic freak as all IFBB or NPC pros are):
http://www.trulyhuge.com/forum/71.html

Quote "But taking chest as an example, while on drugs, I would work pecs for an hour; off drugs, I would work them only about 30 to 40 minutes. There was a time, before the Olympia, when I would do the incline dumbbell press with the 150s for 10 to 12 sets back to back, with forced reps to failure and I would start out with 15 reps. Now, if I can use the 150s, I'm lucky. If I can push out three or four reps for two sets, that's great."

[kosko]

Arnold had surgeries for his skin. I've seen photos where in his old age his pecks look like female titty pancakes from the extra skin. The picture posted he looks like he's taken care of it.

[WanderingSoul]

Stallone on HGH and test looks like a winning combination for a 65 year old to me.

[MunichSux]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/anti-a...tz-dies-69

Quote : "Mintz was famous largely because his Cenegenics Medical Institute based in Summerlin promoted the use of steroids and human growth hormone as an anti-aging therapy for some patients, and he showcased his own bodybuilder physique as evidence of the benefits of the regimens he espoused."

[mikeymike]

The worst people to get roid info from are from pros and former pros, most of them understate the amounts they used, and if they used period...bb'ers didnt become bb'ers by accident they're narcissists by nature, most of them like to think theyre superhuman, and want others to think theyre superhuman. When one of them talks down steroids it hardly means anything, he built his body on them but now theyre shit. The proof is in front of your eyes, when you blast and cruise its a lifetime choice, if you stop you will go to shit and when youre in a position of power like arnold was using illegal products isnt what one does but there are loads of ifbb masters guys who look great still...still using so stop looking to the one, stop listening to what some liars feeding you and look at the guys who are still doing it.

[rudebwoy]

Thanks MikeCF for sharing your routine.

Hating on Arnie is simply ridiculous, the man is a old man with nothing to prove. Probably can still pull more tail than most guys on the forum.

I dabble with Test as I have mentioned before, I had some punk at the gym talking shit to me about black guys and genetics yesterday. I use to be badly out of shape and worked my ass off to look decent, to me taking Testosterone is a no-brainer.

[Duke Castile]

How can anyone hate on Arnold?

In any event, what is a good low key steroid that will help recovery/performance but not cause estrogen production?

I've heard anavar is good but then another guy told me it produces estrogen also.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

(09-15-2013 04:09 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

How can anyone hate on Arnold?

In any event, what is a good low key steroid that will help recovery/performance but not cause estrogen production?

I've heard anavar is good but then another guy told me it produces estrogen also.

TRT dose of testosterone (100-150MG) a week won't skyrocket your estrogen so you won't need an AI.

[MikeCF]

Anavar is good but most is fake.

Anavar is drug of choice for women crossfitters (that's how they get those capped deltoids).

No estrogen but it can shut down your natural testosterone production.

For a fighter or crossfitter, test, var, and low dose GH is pretty straightforward. Minimal sides, no bloating, and nice consistent gains and a recovery boost.

[Sonsowey]

Seriously what the hell is the point of shooting yourself up with steroids and dedicating so much time and effort to get huge?

NEVER understood this.

People say it's about the challenge about achieving great things but jesus, why the need to achieve this? Can't you achieve something besides becoming larger? Martial arts, music, languages, travel, money, knowledge, charisma, dancing, there are tons of things to pursue and achieve and challenge yourself with besides this.

Seems like huge insecurities about looks manifesting themselves. I'm sure guys using gear will jump all over me calling me a pussy for not being huge, talking about the dedication, but seriously, wtf are you trying to prove here? Why do you need to be beyond gigantic? What is the fucking point of lifting all this weight up and down? Is it just to post shirtless pics on facebook? Seems insane.

[MikeCF]

(09-15-2013 04:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Seriously what the hell is the point of shooting yourself up with steroids to get huge?

NEVER understood this.

People say it's about the challenge about achieving great things but jesus, why the need to achieve this?

Seems like huge insecurities manifesting themselves. I'm sure guys using gear will jump all over me calling me a pussy for not being huge, but seriously, wtf are you trying to prove here? Why do you need to be beyond gigantic? What is the fucking point of lifting all this weight up and down? Is it just to post shirtless pics on facebook? Seems insane.

You sound upset.

Why do you care so much about how other men live their lives?

[DVY]

Learning a lot thru these BB threads. Something to keep in mind when I hit my late 40s/early 50s

What would "smart drug" supplementation look like? What are the downsides? Can you drink?

[MikeCF]

(09-14-2013 11:46 PM)MunichSux Wrote:  

Ouch, the "bro crowd" takes revenge.

Did you know that "bro" is a derogatory terms feminists use when describing men?

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/09/how-do-y...lture.html

Are you a woman or stealth feminist?

If not, stop using their lingo to "insult" men.

[MikeCF]

(09-14-2013 09:40 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

lol at thinking Sisson was natural, this is the problem with most mainstream individuals, quick to criticize the enhanced but really have no idea of the different looks of enhancement.

Yep. They are like those kids who argue over whether the YouTube fitness guys are on juice.

As if it's even debatable.

Any man who takes his shirt off for a living and has appreciable muscle mass is on something.

"Something" does not mean huge bodybuilder doses. Could just mean 200 mg/week test, 2 ius/day hgh, 50 mg/day T3, and maybe a little var or winny to harden up.

But of course every guy here is fully natural, as we drink water contaminated with birth control pills (Women piss out birth control in the water and is leads to estrogenic effects), and as we drink alcohol to help with social anxiety and consume coffee to improve cognitive function.

We're all on drugs and none of us are natural.

Some are just more intelligent and informed about it than others.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-15-2013 04:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Seriously what the hell is the point of shooting yourself up with steroids and dedicating so much time and effort to get huge?

NEVER understood this.

People say it's about the challenge about achieving great things but jesus, why the need to achieve this? Can't you achieve something besides becoming larger? Martial arts, music, languages, travel, money, knowledge, charisma, dancing, there are tons of things to pursue and achieve and challenge yourself with besides this.

Seems like huge insecurities about looks manifesting themselves. I'm sure guys using gear will jump all over me calling me a pussy for not being huge, talking about the dedication, but seriously, wtf are you trying to prove here? Why do you need to be beyond gigantic? What is the fucking point of lifting all this weight up and down? Is it just to post shirtless pics on facebook? Seems insane.

Strange questions. You are on a game forum so you can put your dick into a vagina. In the grand scheme of things, that seems pretty silly to many people but here you are.

So what is with all the hate? That is ok if you don't understand the appeal. I am sure there are many things you enjoy that other guys wouldn't understand.

[Cyr]

(09-15-2013 04:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Seriously what the hell is the point of shooting yourself up with steroids and dedicating so much time and effort to get huge?

NEVER understood this.

People say it's about the challenge about achieving great things but jesus, why the need to achieve this? Can't you achieve something besides becoming larger? Martial arts, music, languages, travel, money, knowledge, charisma, dancing, there are tons of things to pursue and achieve and challenge yourself with besides this.

Seems like huge insecurities about looks manifesting themselves. I'm sure guys using gear will jump all over me calling me a pussy for not being huge, talking about the dedication, but seriously, wtf are you trying to prove here? Why do you need to be beyond gigantic? What is the fucking point of lifting all this weight up and down? Is it just to post shirtless pics on facebook? Seems insane.

If you are talking about professional bodybuilders think about it like this. Over the last 40,000 years there have probably been 10,000,000,000 humans living on the earth, maybe a little less. Ronnie Coleman is probably the most muscular man to have lived on Earth over this time period. Now if being the most muscular man (something that every man aspires to or at least admires) to have ever lived on the Earth isnt an achievement, what is?
If youre talking about steroid use for non professional bodybuilders, I guess that you should think about the fact that weight training is good fun/ addictive and using some gear can help you ascend to the next level. I personally am way too young to even consider taking anything, but when Im 45/ 50, I'll definitely think about it.

[Duke Castile]

MikeCF - what's the cost of anavar (roundabout) and how do you cycle it etc?

I'm about to start training hard again and I want to recover as quickly as possible and minimize injury etc. You know the drill.

I'm not crazy about the idea of shooting test for some reason, it's probably just my understanding of it but I feel like mine is through the roof as is...

What's a low level of GH?

[MrXY]

(09-15-2013 04:43 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Seems like huge insecurities about looks manifesting themselves. I'm sure guys using gear will jump all over me calling me a pussy for not being huge, talking about the dedication, but seriously, wtf are you trying to prove here? Why do you need to be beyond gigantic? What is the fucking point of lifting all this weight up and down? Is it just to post shirtless pics on facebook? Seems insane.

Spend one year in a serious training program and you'll understand that weight lifting has many positive benefits for your life beyond just appearance

Not that changing your appearance isn't a huge life change-try it and you'll see a big difference in how people respond to you.

Beyond that your charges of "insecurity" or narcissism are the typical attacks on anyone who wants to accomplish anything beyond what the masses feel comfortable with

Why start a company? Or try to make a million dollars? Or write a book? Or make a scientific discovery? Or climb a mountain? Or bang a lot of women? Or try to be a champion athlete? Anyone who works hard to do something extraordinary has something to prove to themselves or others, or wants some attention or status of some sort. So what.

If you don't want to lift, then don't, but that's no reason to insult people as "insane" just because they want something more out of life than being an Average Joe.