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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 08:08 AM
Quote: (08-27-2013 07:14 AM)frenchie Wrote:
Quote: (08-27-2013 06:30 AM)Marco Wrote:
Could it be that what US is doing is as plain as simple as a moral act? To save civilian population from mass murder?
You might call me naive and I am sure other interests and considerations exist but the main reason is to save innocent lives.
If that was the cause, we would have intervened in Darfur. The motives of our government are far from pure.
http://www.jpost.com/International/Irani...acks-Syria
They want Iran. American hegemony is threatened by Iran. The less the dollar is used as a reserve currency, the less power our government can control.
Interesting article.
In Drafur there was no chemical weapons. I dont have numbers in darfur but in Syria is over 100,000 casualties already.
I guess there are other motives but if Assad would not have use chemical weapons, probably no one would attack him.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 08:43 AM
Interventions:
1. Use Bombs, Rockets, Ammo to make more Bombs, Rockets, Ammo. = Profit.
2. Rebuild just bombed country = Profit.
3. Put friendly regime in place = Profit.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 09:05 AM
This is definitely happening friends, Saturday or more likely Sunday night.
60-100 cruise missiles from the destroyer in Mediterranean, maybe some long range bombers as well as the UK sub in the area. Not sure how the french plan on getting in on the act, maybe search and seizure off vessels going into Syrian ports.
Why? To send a message that the use of chemical weapons barred by the 1993 treaty will not be accepted.
Why are the UK/US governments convinced it was Assad's forces? The gas used most likely was Sarin or a related agent. An agent that has been used in that area of the world before. The symptoms of the victims clearly point towards Sarin gas or a close related agent. The attack was large scale and the gas was dispersed over a large area. The munition used must have been airburst and large in caliber or delivered by aircraft. The rebels don't have 155 mm artillery batteries capable of delivering such munitions over such a large area in an organised attack nor do they have an airforce. There seems to be very little doubt.
Why did Assad do it? Maybe it was unintentional. Troops firing a bunch of munitions they didn't know was chemical? Maybe he's not fully in charge of his own military anymore. Trigger happy commander at a batallion level?
British and US public are vastly against any such action, regardless UK parliament will approve these punitive strikes on Thursday. They are trying to protect civilians plus the rest of the world needs reminding that the west and NATO is still very much in charge. Russia and Iran can moan and threaten as much as they want, they're being diregarded. As with Lybia there will be no invasion of Syria or ground troops in Syria. The situation in Syria won't be resolved by the impending strikes. I doubt anyone is under the illusion that this would solve anything.
This is all it amounts to: use chemical weapons, your shit goes up in flames overnight. So think very carely about what you're doing in future.
All the geopolicy and ww3 is premature nonsense at this stage. The assumption is that Assad is not insane. The question is what happens if he responds to missile strikes with more chemical weapons or shelling of israel or turkey? I doubt anyone has even considered that, but if it happens Russia and China cannot stand behind Assad anymore, Turkey could invoke article 5 which would result in a definite NATO response and if Israel is attacked they will invade and disarm Syria in less than 2 weeks.
There are no big scale wars anymore because no one can remotely compete with the military might of the west and NATO.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 09:14 AM
double post sorry. No clue how that happened.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote: (08-27-2013 08:39 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:
Quote: (08-26-2013 03:22 PM)Therapsid Wrote:
...
It's clear who benefits from this so-called chemical attack (I doubt it even is one). First and foremost the Syrian rebels including Al Qaeda. America, the UK, and France who want to topple Assad. And Israel who wants to remove another regional rival and who seems to enjoy getting the U.S. to fight its own wars.
As far as I've heard Israel is on record as saying that they will prefer an intact, but severely weakened Asaad regime in Syria. Syria currently doesn't present a significant threat to them, whereas chaos and Al Qaeda elements on the loose are much more unpredictable and dangerous. If pedaling conspiracy theories I'd rather bet that Israel supported the recent military coup in Egypt. Much more in their interest than toppling Asaad.
What you say and what you wish is often different in politics.
Israel has been bombing Syria. They have done this under the pretext of intercepting weapons heading to Hezbollah.
They have also given away oil rights to Genie. A company thats major stockholders include Rupert Murdoch, Jacob Rothschild and Dick Cheney.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 12:08 PM
Plus, everyone stopped talking about the NSA. Well-played?
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 12:27 PM
CactusCat is on to it as well. Nothing but games and bullshit.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 12:30 PM
Russia's #1 export is Energy. Their #2 export is armaments. Syria and Iran are their biggest customers. It's simple economics. Of course Russia will support their biggest customers.
Secondly, I cannot understand you guys who think that Obama is pro-Israel. He is up there with Jimmy Carter as the most hostile president to Israel since it was created.
Please recognize that huge amounts of Jewish property was confiscated throughout the Arab world between 1948 and 1967. I don't hear anyone arguing vast property across North Africa and Iran etc...should be returned to their rightful owners.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 01:43 PM
Putin...huffs, puffs, does nothing.
Obama - praying at an altar the US economy will go into a sustained recovery. Doesn't want to involve himself in the middle east. Doesn't seem to give a shit anymore.
Assad/The Syrians - doing what they've been doing since they've been ruled by Nebuchadnezzar. No change here. Every once in a while some foreign empire will rule or influence them for a stint and then it's back to basics. The Greeks, the Romans, Ottomans, British, French, Americans/Russians, call it imperial carousel.
The British/Cameron - dreaming of the old glory days
The Chinese - counting money
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 02:52 PM
Quote: (08-26-2013 03:07 PM)luggage Wrote:
Quote: (08-26-2013 03:00 PM)LeBeau Wrote:
Anyone else reading that the chemical weapons might actually be used and held by the rebel forces rather than Assad's troops in the first place?
Doubt it man. Bunch of crooked dudes can't get hold of some chemical weapons let alone use it. Who gave it to them? the U.S? Pfft...
Doubt what ?!?!?! that the CIA backed "rebels" are actually the one who released chemical weapons ????
how could you doubt that - you know exactly who gave it to them, the same people who gave them their weapons, intel and logistics !
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 04:36 PM
All the theorycrafting about the other nations and their involvement might be stimulating and all, but at the end of the day, we NATO states will do what we deem is right by our morals. Russia, China, Iran or whoever can talk, warn and sabre rastle all day long, they're completely insignificant when the west consideres it's national security interests. They only weigh in on diplomacy because we don't want to upset everybody. What could Russia possibly do? Supply more new missiles and radar to Syria? Just to find out they're yet again completely inferior, either don't work, don't hit stuff and get taken out before they detect anything? There's no military balance of power in our world. The balance of power during the cold war was based on nuclear the deterrent and nothing else. NATO is 30-50 years ahead of everyone else in military technology. We designed so much good stuff in ww2 and korea, stole everything we could from the germans, including their scientists and ran with it. Every heavy mechanised armor and/or air engagement involing NATO armed forces in the last 40 years ended in an utter rout and obliteration of the non-NATO force. Recent tank battles have end with losses of 40-100 to NATOs 1. No military commander in the world believes they can stand up to NATO military might and even compete, let alone win.
It's pretty much in the worlds interest for no one to win the Syrian conflict, rather for all sides to accept there's no military gains to be made and join some kind of peace process. No one wants the islamic rebels in power and Assad, backed by Hisbollah and Iran has after recent events definitely become untenable. He's burnt those bridges, and then some. The democratic element of the rebels doesn't have enough backing from the population or enough people under arms to be the sole dominant force in the country. Too many countries are supporting too many different groups, some of which clearly are backed by terrorist elements.
So what needs to happen is everyone to place nice again. Go to germany, sit around some table. Take a bunch of our money. Make some kind of goverment of unity, be pretty ineffective for a couple of years, and let time heal wounds.
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 06:06 PM
Quote: (08-27-2013 05:11 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:
By all means, we should invade Reagan's grave.
He allowed Saddam to gas Iran with chemical weapons and did nothing about it. Saddam later sold such chem weapons to Syria. It's so funny to see how the US knew that Iraq had WMDs, because the US allowed Iraq to use them before.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/20...assed_iran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_tFKa2_YBQ
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 06:10 PM
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Military Intervention in Syria.
08-27-2013, 07:27 PM
I think Israel could survive without American tax money and support. With that support they have to endure these wasteful peace treaties with PA which don't result in any real changes. They would probably still get money and possible weapons from American Jews anyway. I also don't think this attack on Syria would benefit them either.