[Maciano]

A colleague of mine (40), a real clueless weakling, recently came to me in confidence. Anyway, his wife (34) confessed to him she had fallen in love with one of her clients -- she's a masseuse. Nothing erotic/kinky, physical therapy stuff. She didn't want to stop the affair and confess her infidelity, but continue it in the open!

Anyway, he believes that couples should 'always be honest' and 'falling in love is unstoppable'. Even to his own detriment, he supports her hamster. The situation is -- for no one here a surprise -- that he pays all the bills and they 'work on their marriage', while she can see her lover once a month. All this was not what REALLY bothered him(!), this summer they wanted to vacation and she liked to bring a necklace she got from her lover 'because she loved it'. He defended it: "it really is a nice chain, tbh." But he asked if he had to draw a line here: the necklace had to stay a home!

This guy unwillingly accepted infidelity, a polyamorous arrangement and doesn't flinch at the pain/humiliation his wife causes him (without remorse), yet he gets angry over... a necklace? I can see why he wants to avoid a costly divorce, but come on, I'd even prefer a divorce court over this shit. I kind of like the guy, he's a hard worker, a good sport and management often uses him like the pigs did to "Boxer" in Animal Farm, so I didn't give him hell. (I did like to tell him to pull the necklace of her neck, throw in the toilet, shit over it, take a selfie and post it all over facebook.)

This guy is clueless, to advice him to take a lover of his own, will simply not do. Is the real lesson here that some guys simply can not be saved?

[Ziltoid]

I believe that is the only real lesson, yes.

I've concluded that trying to bring somebody to the red pill side of things is utterly futile... Don't even bother. Not with your coworker, not with your brother, not even with your best friend since childhood.

The resources (forums, blogs, books) are already out there for those who are capable of looking carefully, learning from them, and accepting reality for what it truly really is. The rest, like your friend, are just lost causes.
Even if you actually convinced somebody of red pill principles, you still have to keep in mind one very important thing; the vast majority of people prefer to live a lie.

It's like trying to debate somebody out of Christianity... If they don't debate themselves out of it, what makes you think YOU would be able to?

[Hades]

I think your buddy is just miserable and looking for company, not necessarily advice. Most guys could care less about what "you would do" in their situation.

If he is determined to "work on his marriage", just hand him a copy of "No More Mister Nice Guy", tell him that he fits the description because women (and everyone else) walk all over him, and try to drop some more constructive insults in a way that goads him to read the book. I call them insults because a lot of guys like these cannot take criticism and will take pretty much everything as an insult.

One of the main tenants of the book is to define male-only spaces in your life, where you hang out with men and do man stuff like smashing up cars with golf clubs and bowling. I think just that alone gives it the RVF stamp of approval.

[Samseau]

We don't know if the guy is red-pill or not. He's trapped in a marriage and probably doesn't think the divorce is worth it just because she's a whore.

Also, she's not going with another man so that changes things. There's no risk of her getting knocked up, plus if she wants cock it still has to come from the husband. He can still get laid and she gets her emotional needs satisfied by her lesbian lover.

So he probably just weighs out the costs: divorce or putting up with lesbo? And decides the divorce is the worse option.

And besides, now that she's admitted to cheating, he's got free license to cheat as well.

It's a less than ideal situation, but it's not really life destroying either.

[eradicator]

(08-23-2013 04:45 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

We don't know if the guy is red-pill or not. He's trapped in a marriage and probably doesn't think the divorce is worth it just because she's a whore.

Also, she's not going with another man so that changes things?

Where did you read that the woman took a lesbian lover? I read this as she started cheating on him with another guy.

[Maciano]

@Samseau, it was no lesbo stuff. She cheated on him with a guy. And he's not red pill at all. He's troubled with his raw deal, but nothing more. He's inner game anti-matter.

@Hades: thnx. I will try to do this. But after watching this guy for 8 months daily, I doubt he can change much. Here's hoping he can. It's no fun watching some poor schmuck struggle at work, and even more, at home. I did recommend Maxwell Maltz' "Psycho-Cybernetics", but that's not really about women per se.

[nmmoooreland20]

(08-23-2013 04:03 AM)Maciano Wrote:  

A colleague of mine (40), a real clueless weakling, recently came to me in confidence. Anyway, his wife (34) confessed to him she had fallen in love with one of her clients -- she's a masseuse. Nothing erotic/kinky, physical therapy stuff. She didn't want to stop the affair and confess her infidelity, but continue it in the open!

Anyway, he believes that couples should 'always be honest' and 'falling in love is unstoppable'. Even to his own detriment, he supports her hamster. The situation is -- for no one here a surprise -- that he pays all the bills and they 'work on their marriage', while she can see her lover once a month. All this was not what REALLY bothered him(!), this summer they wanted to vacation and she liked to bring a necklace she got from her lover 'because she loved it'. He defended it: "it really is a nice chain, tbh." But he asked if he had to draw a line here: the necklace had to stay a home!

This guy unwillingly accepted infidelity, a polyamorous arrangement and doesn't flinch at the pain/humiliation his wife causes him (without remorse), yet he gets angry over... a necklace? I can see why he wants to avoid a costly divorce, but come on, I'd even prefer a divorce court over this shit. I kind of like the guy, he's a hard worker, a good sport and management often uses him like the pigs did to "Boxer" in Animal Farm, so I didn't give him hell. (I did like to tell him to pull the necklace of her neck, throw in the toilet, shit over it, take a selfie and post it all over facebook.)

This guy is clueless, to advice him to take a lover of his own, will simply not do. Is the real lesson here that some guys simply can not be saved?

For what it is, I honestly think it could be a great situation if he were to take advantage. He's a 40 year old dude that can have the companionship and support for kids of a spouse, but in theory should have a free reign to tap hot young ass.

[Sumanguru]

Out of curiosity: is she bi-polar? I have yet to meet a chick who claimed she was poly who WASN'T bi-polar.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

The sad thing is that he didn't really want a polyamorous relationship, she was just shit-testing him.

Now they're both miserable.

[WestIndianArchie]

There's no hope for him.

You can shame him, take him out, give him all the literature in the world, buy him a hooker without him knowing, fuck his wife...

Not gonna matter.

WIA

[Dr. Howard]

wow, I don't think this guy will get it. His best plan, now that he's in it, would be to continue with the 'working on the marriage' facade while structuring his finances for divorce, talking to a lawyer. Last, if they have kids, encouraging her to spend all kinds of time with the other guy, going on long trips etc. This, if documented, will show her moving away from spending time with her kids and will help if he chooses custody.

As beta and retarded as his reaction is, its probably a great front to use to build time on an exit strategy instead of an immediate meltdown. She will be too wrapped up in new dick to look over her shoulder while he can carefully structure the marital takedown. However, I think he's actually buying into 'working on his marriage' vs. 'buying time to end it to his advantage'

[Maciano]

She's not bipolar, but she's clearly an egotistical nutcase with no self-reflection. It doesn't matter either: if you do harm from mental saneness or sickness, does not reduce the harm itself.

Furthermore, I want to point out why I named the guy 'clueless' some more. He works 40h weeks and she's alone during the day, supposedly taking of their schoolgoing daughter. She works in the evening, a couple of hours. (Btw, she wasn't originally a masseuse, she's a university traiend liberal arts major who lost her parttime gov job in 2008. She couldn't 'handle the stress' of finding a new job, so re-educated -- on his dime & time, of course.) To think she'll keep to the 'once-a-month' rule just shows how clueless he is. Loyalty is a male virtue, a woman will not keep to that rule for more than one week. I bet, she sees her lover all the time, when he's out working.

Female polyamory is in practice, of course, a sham. A woman who wants polyamory just wants a beta provider and an alpha lover at the same time. It's not like (Islamic/African-type) polygamy where one alpha supports and fucks multiple women.

It is probably a hopeless situation: the guy thought refusing her to bring her lover's necklace on vacation was brave, he thought this means he was standing up for himself. That's why I -- and many others here -- believe there's little hope for him.

[The Beast1]

Give him the tools he needs, but he'll only be the one to build the bridge out of there.

Sadly, he'll get screwed and left bitter. It's unfortunate.

Let him dig his own grave trying to "save it". I have no sympathy for men who don't take at least some modicum of effort to save himself. I've seen it happen before.

Chalk this up to +1 alpha fux beta bux.

[The Great Basilisk]

I know a polyamorous couple. I met the girl first. Short hair, 5 on a good day, has a "sex blog", feminist obviously. Didn't think much of it back then. Then i met the guy...overweight nerd with no social skills what so ever. At this point it became clear that in this relationship, there was only one party with multiple partners. This chick even writes about her sex adventures on her blog. Her latest one was about how she went to a party and almost couldn't get laid because guys were too drunk to fuck her(yeah right). Even my friend who is blue pill(but alpha) thought it was disgusting.

[Therapsid]

It seems like polyamory has just come out of nowhere. Even just in the last ten year it seems like it's become more common. What would have been a bizarre and perverse aberration has suddenly become almost mundane.

We're going to see more in the media promoting polyamory in coming years. It will be normalized, which will then raise the question of whether women can have multiple husbands.

But even if that doesn't happen, the number of couples, married or otherwise, who are in open-relationships has gone through the roof. And many of these open relationships amount to the woman fucking around more than the guy. What was a norm of gay couples has seeped into heterosexual culture.

[CactusCat589]

Your friend should apply liquidationist principles.

Maciano Wrote:

wow, I don't think this guy will get it. His best plan, now that he's in it, would be to continue with the 'working on the marriage' facade while structuring his finances for divorce, talking to a lawyer. Last, if they have kids, encouraging her to spend all kinds of time with the other guy, going on long trips etc. This, if documented, will show her moving away from spending time with her kids and will help if he chooses custody.

As beta and retarded as his reaction is, its probably a great front to use to build time on an exit strategy instead of an immediate meltdown. She will be too wrapped up in new dick to look over her shoulder while he can carefully structure the marital takedown. However, I think he's actually buying into 'working on his marriage' vs. 'buying time to end it to his advantage'

This is the way to go. Once he makes the divorce happen, he has another lease on life, and game. But it's unheard of that men can work through these inner problems in these circumstances.

[j r]

It's hard for me to have sympathy for this guy. Think of all the people who are blindsided by their spouses.

This guy has been given a gift: his shitty wife revealed herself for what she is and in such a way that gives him a license to do something about it. Too bad he won't take advantage.

[RonnieB]

(08-23-2013 04:34 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I think your buddy is just miserable and looking for company, not necessarily advice. Most guys could care less about what "you would do" in their situation.

If he is determined to "work on his marriage", just hand him a copy of "No More Mister Nice Guy", tell him that he fits the description because women (and everyone else) walk all over him, and try to drop some more constructive insults in a way that goads him to read the book. I call them insults because a lot of guys like these cannot take criticism and will take pretty much everything as an insult.

One of the main tenants of the book is to define male-only spaces in your life, where you hang out with men and do man stuff like smashing up cars with golf clubs and bowling. I think just that alone gives it the RVF stamp of approval.

I agree with Hades. Definitely get him to read No More Mr Nice Guy. I just finished it and saw so many stupid 'nice guy' behaviours I was doing. It's not a full red pill book, more about starting standing up for yourself and makes you realise that the 'nice guy' behaviours are manipulative and destructive. I wish I found this book a long time ago.

And tell him not to be put off by the title, he will probably think it's going to try to make him become a bad person which it won't. This book is the first step to break out of the please everybody, Beta male mindset.

Thanks to a few of you guys on the forum who recommended the book.

[Vaun]

I see this all the time, these are white knighting husbands. Ultimately the kids pay the price for this because the parents do not responsibly work out their problems, either through counseling or divorce. And you might not know the full story. Maybe he is $100'sK in debt. Maybe she has the ability to take everything away from him if he tries to divorce or even say no. Finances are always at the core of their decision making. It would be much easier if only relationship issues.