Note: This is a work in progress. As I discover what works, I will be posting it.
The Principal Flaw With the Seduction Community:
Attention to logistics, the art of enabling the circumstances for sex, is scant. Problems that don’t stem from your game are misunderstood, and the solution given is for a different problem. The problem is often one of logistics.
I'm posting exactly what I do to get ass in college. It’s constantly evolving in response to what works, what’s necessary, what’s superfluous, and what my goals are. Anyone who's got concrete wisdom to share, please do.
The value of Social Circle game in my experience is widely overestimated. Circles get you into parties full of crowded people you don’t know, yet. Game is still absolutely essential.
I can’t stand the people that give really vague advice expecting you to read their mind through an internet connection - I've been there - it's like the dude who calls you a dumbass for not knowing something he knows, because he thinks it's patently obvious, when it isn't:
Note On Mindset
Stop thinking in terms of approaches. You’re in a room full of people, to ‘approach’ any one person or group is investing too much into them, especially when they’re surrounded by their friends. Talk to the people around you. If they suck, keep grazing. You’re free to eject at any point, as are they.
Stop feeling as if every girl you went nowhere with was your fault. As your game improves, your success rate and the attractiveness of your conquests will increase. The fact remains though, some girls just suck and you won't succeed with them. Maybe it's specific to you, maybe not.
Night Game - Dancing
Get tipsy, on sugary alcohol to make you joyous, energetic. Go to a party with dancing, go ask the first attractive single chick you see on the dance floor to dance (read: grind) with you. If she refuses, don't hang around, find someone else, she isn't worth it. hump from the behind for a song or two. Girls never dance front to front initially for some reason.
An Alternative Technique:
Start talking to a girl in the bar area, and give her a brief exposure of your game. (Paul Janka has the idea of being like a movie trailer, you build interest with game briefly, and then cut it short to maintain intrigue, in the context of street game. This may work here). Assess whether her friends will not want to go to the dance floor - she may stick with her friends, her friends may let her go, or they may all go to dance. If it seems as if she'll refuse to dance, continue talking or move on, and hit her up on the dance floor later. Haven't field-tested it enough, but there are probably plenty girls who would dance only after talking to you.
Continue light banter on the dance floor, and you can proceed as you would usually, perhaps faster and farther.
She'll either want someone else at this point, or will want to be turned around, front to front - up or out - you do it any quicker and she may get a little sketched out. Talk to them a little - I tried "[state of my school]?" because I'm from the opposite end of the country, and I tell them all the northeasterners look the same to me. It's honestly stupid shit, but they're drunk and they love it.
Keep talking, grind throughout, then go for the kiss. You may have to put your hand on her face and turn her towards you - ***DO NOT think she's not receptive to a kiss because she isn't facing you***. Looking sideways, despite what I've read, is not an indication of disinterest on her part. If she didn't want to kiss you, she wouldn't dance front to front with you. Kiss for a while, and if it's going well you can back her up against the wall and slow the grinding. Concentrate on the kissing.
Bonus: Take her and move her up against a wall, and continue grinding. I like this because I'm lazy and the grinding gets more intense. Calibration's key, do it too quick and she'll get weirded out. Probably a sure thing after kissing though.
At some point you must get her number - you can do this either while you're in the talking, pre-kiss phase, or after you've kissed a while. Have her save your number under your name in her phone, to get her more committed. By then, you'll want to resume talking - you can either take her off the dance floor to get drinks/water and talk, or just continue grinding with light fun conversation. [I'm not sure which is more effective yet, but the latter may very well be.] The earlier you get the number the better, so you don't have to worry about getting separated, and seeming needy as a result - it seems needy to ask for the number after she's already told you she needs to go.
Her friends may want to leave or go elsewhere in the house; do not resist her, and do not accompany her. Now is a perfect chance to start with another girl. You may see the original girl again, and you can totally resume your interaction with her, and she'll be receptive. Again, do not assume she is unreceptive because she left your company - girls are irrational - she may have just wanted a change of pace. If she leaves and you have her number, you're fine.
In any case, it's handy to isolate a girl in a quiet spot and build some rapport, be it through conversation or slower, more passionate kissing.
Edit:
I got my first same night lay (SNL), and though the main factor was the girl, there are some things I did that helped, I'm sure: After talking, dancing and kissing for a bit (~20 minutes perhaps), I asked what she was doing later that night, and she said "hmm, well it depends" in a flirty way. I replied, smirking, "hmm, maybe you'll meet someone cool tonight." At some point, I said, "hey, let's chill at my place later." She was amenable, but it was obvious I didn't mean immediately. It was a little hard extracting her from the venue, as she had to meet up with her friend and notify her, and I was firm but patient. We got separated multiple times, and I talked to other girls then. I didn't dance with or #/kiss-close any other girls, because babe #1 seemed like such a sure deal.
FWIW, this party was an a cappella party, girls were way more down to earth than the greek types, and the guys there generally had zero game. Artsy types can be interesting, and very easy. They're more lax with parting with their friends, it seemed.
I'm going to try pulling girls home more, and report back. I sense that it'll be harder with freshmen, who travel in flocks that wait for each other without fail.
If you've had success with this, please share.
Send her a text that night with something funny and like "it was cool talking to you![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
" or whatever. You're anchoring the interaction.
In my and my friends' experience, freshmen are worthless teases, if you want sex. And if you get phone numbers of ugly girls (before realizing they were ugly...), delete them, it'll boost your dignity.
Day 2
You have her number, what do you do? She is one of the following:
1)The Hooked: You built a decent amount of rapport with her, making a memorable impression.
2)The Curious: You kept her engaged, for 1 minute or twenty, but you were only one of many interesting people and experiences she had that night. She was attracted to you then, but attraction is momentary. The next day later, she vaguely recalls you as a cool, funny guy, nothing more.
3)Acquaintances: You met her in a class or student group, and spoken with her. There's a good vibe between you two, but a date just doesn't seem appropriate, and you aren't on the closest terms.
Think of guy-friends in this respect – it’s rare that you’ll meet a guy once and become good buddies. Usually, you have something tying you together, or repeated incidental meets. You wouldn’t go out of your way to hang out with a guy you just met unless he was truly compelling, or you truly connected; only through repeated exposure do you start hanging out with him.
So it is with girls. The vast majority of girls you’ll meet at parties are in the second category. No matter your phone or text game, your initial interaction usually just isn’t compelling enough to merit a date, and this is compounded by alcohol consumption. You don’t usually start spending loads of time exclusively with a guy you just met, and so you don’t with girls. When there are so many other people around, the fact that you might not see each other again loses its urgency.
With "The Curious," they will be unwilling to meet up with you for a day 2, and it doesn’t reflect on your game, as community members are inclined to proclaim – you met her in less than optimal circumstances. Or she's not a girl you could build a connection with.
With Acquaintances, a date would just seem off, and might scare her away.
Your strategy hinges on the category to which she belongs.
Course of Action: The Hooked
Invite her over for a glass of wine. She already sees you as a compelling person, you are getting together to enjoy each other’s company. Drink it in your room, to nice music, and start kissing.
An alternative is to go to some event followed by wine at your place, if she is hesitant to enter your house and spend time alone with you. If that’s the case, you may have misclassified her. If you've truly hooked her your presence is all that matters; you don't need an outside attraction to bring you two together. But some girls are prude in this respect.
Speculation: I figure because you're making it such a special occasion, relative to what she's used to, and in a non-needy way, that she'll be inclined to have sex quicker. Your frame is hey, join me for some wine, we'll hang out - very casual. It's easier to build intimacy and comfort in the privacy of your home. She'll think you're a total romantic and will be touched, opening her heart and her vag for you. I've had a 2/2 success rate with this, first date lay. The girls involved weren't slutty.
Note: I like talking with interesting girls, and my day 2 reflects that. Lots of guys like to invite a girl over for a movie and hook up then. Great if it works for them, it's just not my thing.
When you've isolated the girl and have done some solid kino, take her phone and turn it off. Not vibrate, or silent, but off. You're defusing a major potential cockblock.
The Curious
You can’t ask this girl out on a date, to spend time exclusively with you, because you never got enough of an impression for her to merit it. I haven’t solved this issue yet; they don’t call back, and texts have mediocre responses. But… if you were having a party at your house, it would be totally normal for you to invite her (via text) to your party.
Parties are hit or miss, crowded, and she may not even commit a good portion of her night to you. And most notably, you can't be throwing parties every night, every weekend, inviting multiple girls you want to bang to the same place.
Solution: Invite her to pre-game with you and your friends.
Explanation: In college, nearly everyone drinks before they go out, in order to arrive tipsy or drunk at the real parties. Pre-gaming is that, and it is more intimate and laid back than parties, offering what seems a favorable option for solving the dilemma elucidated above. Freshmen especially are on the prowl for invitations to things like these. And all you need is some alcohol to give away.
I haven’t tried this out yet, but it seems very promising. Ideally, you’d want to have some guy friends already with you, so as not to creep the girl out when she walks in and finds you there, alone. She’d be coming with some friends.
I see three possible paths to success:
1) You isolate her from everyone else, in your room, with some excuse, and commence hooking up.
Problem: Her friends will bust in at some point to take her off to the party. She is not likely to resist them, and her friends may deem you sketchy (I’m not sure how you’d come off in this situation). And in all likelihood, she will still want to go out and party. See the next two options
2) You build enough of a connection such that a date on a different night becomes an option.
3) You meet up with her later and take her home with you. Getting her into your house, and more so, setting foot in your bedroom, during the pre-gaming, will make this easier. Your house is no longer a foreboding unknown.
Pre-gaming is better than a date in a way, in that even if you don't have great compatibility with her, your chances of sex are less affected than they would be in the context of a date. It's easier to keep things moving when she's hammered.
Alternative Solution: Meet up with her at a party
Text her on a weekend night, eg, "Hey, what you up to tonight? I heard Alpha Gamma and Sigma Beta for tonight, and also at 407 Maple." I usually mention a couple parties I know about, to be of value and boost the chance of her responding. She'll tell you where she's thinking about going. You might then say "cool, see you at 233 Elm then" [meeting her at the party] or "I'll text you later" [to arrange a meet later]. Don't seem committed to any party - it'll look extremely weak if you say you're going to X and then change your mind to meet her at Y - unless you're convinced she'll go to the party of your choosing or you're ok with not seeing her.
When you get to the party, she'll want alcohol, so go get some drinks with her. Then go take her to the dance floor. Do your thing there, and after a decent amount of time at the party, try to take her home.
Note: I've never really done this last method, I just felt resistant to it.
Acquaintances
The strategy is much the same as with "the curious." One possible difference: she may be willing to pregame with you alone (and you inform her of this), allowing you the opportunity to have a de facto date. You invite her over to pregame, and with luck she'll never leave that night.
Closing
As for getting sex, she will resist, so you will offer nothing for her to resist against. Keep trying to pleasure her within what she allows to advance, and go beyond what she allows a fair bit, while leading with your own behavior.
For instance, if she doesn't allow you to take off her bra just yet, make sure you're topless, and stick your hand underneath her bra and sensously massage her nipples. The bra will come off. Same deal with panties. Some girls like to talk while hooking up. If so, increase her anticipation by putting images in her mind. Sex or even oral sex is not ensured with these methods, but they will maximize the chance of them happening.
Make her take off her jewelry and place it in some obscure spot in your room (though don't conspicuously hide it). She will forget about it, and have to come back for it, which just might be the difference between a steady fuck buddy and a one night stand.
Criticism of College PUA Material:
I found college pickup tenets, like 'build a social circle' unhelpful. I read College Dating Domination a while back, and it's point boils down to "Be a cool guy, have high social status, don't be creepy like Mystery." Wasn't much help, and there are far better books for how to tell you to be a man.
I didn't have a strong coherent circle, and now I'm living with some guys in a mid-level status frat, who have a decent one, but they're getting considerably less ass than me.
And girls don't jump into your arms because you're at a slightly more private party - house parties at my school may just mean fewer people, girls who aren't as easy, and usually uglier.
SC Game may work if you're in a top frat/sports team with loads of groupies - otherwise, you'll probably have to chase the ass rather than let it come to you.
And oh, join a fraternity, a high status one with dudes you like.
PS: Props to Paul Janka, he's proven an inspiration of late by being incredibly real and detailed in his instruction, down to earth, and without the BS that plagues the seduction community.
I feel like my game has increased dramatically in recent weeks, catalyzed by a brief trip alone to montreal. I recommend traveling, alone, and setting aside time on these trips to just relaxing. I’ve been making and breaking personal records since.
The Principal Flaw With the Seduction Community:
Attention to logistics, the art of enabling the circumstances for sex, is scant. Problems that don’t stem from your game are misunderstood, and the solution given is for a different problem. The problem is often one of logistics.
I'm posting exactly what I do to get ass in college. It’s constantly evolving in response to what works, what’s necessary, what’s superfluous, and what my goals are. Anyone who's got concrete wisdom to share, please do.
The value of Social Circle game in my experience is widely overestimated. Circles get you into parties full of crowded people you don’t know, yet. Game is still absolutely essential.
I can’t stand the people that give really vague advice expecting you to read their mind through an internet connection - I've been there - it's like the dude who calls you a dumbass for not knowing something he knows, because he thinks it's patently obvious, when it isn't:
Note On Mindset
Stop thinking in terms of approaches. You’re in a room full of people, to ‘approach’ any one person or group is investing too much into them, especially when they’re surrounded by their friends. Talk to the people around you. If they suck, keep grazing. You’re free to eject at any point, as are they.
Stop feeling as if every girl you went nowhere with was your fault. As your game improves, your success rate and the attractiveness of your conquests will increase. The fact remains though, some girls just suck and you won't succeed with them. Maybe it's specific to you, maybe not.
Night Game - Dancing
Get tipsy, on sugary alcohol to make you joyous, energetic. Go to a party with dancing, go ask the first attractive single chick you see on the dance floor to dance (read: grind) with you. If she refuses, don't hang around, find someone else, she isn't worth it. hump from the behind for a song or two. Girls never dance front to front initially for some reason.
An Alternative Technique:
Start talking to a girl in the bar area, and give her a brief exposure of your game. (Paul Janka has the idea of being like a movie trailer, you build interest with game briefly, and then cut it short to maintain intrigue, in the context of street game. This may work here). Assess whether her friends will not want to go to the dance floor - she may stick with her friends, her friends may let her go, or they may all go to dance. If it seems as if she'll refuse to dance, continue talking or move on, and hit her up on the dance floor later. Haven't field-tested it enough, but there are probably plenty girls who would dance only after talking to you.
Continue light banter on the dance floor, and you can proceed as you would usually, perhaps faster and farther.
She'll either want someone else at this point, or will want to be turned around, front to front - up or out - you do it any quicker and she may get a little sketched out. Talk to them a little - I tried "[state of my school]?" because I'm from the opposite end of the country, and I tell them all the northeasterners look the same to me. It's honestly stupid shit, but they're drunk and they love it.
Keep talking, grind throughout, then go for the kiss. You may have to put your hand on her face and turn her towards you - ***DO NOT think she's not receptive to a kiss because she isn't facing you***. Looking sideways, despite what I've read, is not an indication of disinterest on her part. If she didn't want to kiss you, she wouldn't dance front to front with you. Kiss for a while, and if it's going well you can back her up against the wall and slow the grinding. Concentrate on the kissing.
Bonus: Take her and move her up against a wall, and continue grinding. I like this because I'm lazy and the grinding gets more intense. Calibration's key, do it too quick and she'll get weirded out. Probably a sure thing after kissing though.
At some point you must get her number - you can do this either while you're in the talking, pre-kiss phase, or after you've kissed a while. Have her save your number under your name in her phone, to get her more committed. By then, you'll want to resume talking - you can either take her off the dance floor to get drinks/water and talk, or just continue grinding with light fun conversation. [I'm not sure which is more effective yet, but the latter may very well be.] The earlier you get the number the better, so you don't have to worry about getting separated, and seeming needy as a result - it seems needy to ask for the number after she's already told you she needs to go.
Her friends may want to leave or go elsewhere in the house; do not resist her, and do not accompany her. Now is a perfect chance to start with another girl. You may see the original girl again, and you can totally resume your interaction with her, and she'll be receptive. Again, do not assume she is unreceptive because she left your company - girls are irrational - she may have just wanted a change of pace. If she leaves and you have her number, you're fine.
In any case, it's handy to isolate a girl in a quiet spot and build some rapport, be it through conversation or slower, more passionate kissing.
Edit:
I got my first same night lay (SNL), and though the main factor was the girl, there are some things I did that helped, I'm sure: After talking, dancing and kissing for a bit (~20 minutes perhaps), I asked what she was doing later that night, and she said "hmm, well it depends" in a flirty way. I replied, smirking, "hmm, maybe you'll meet someone cool tonight." At some point, I said, "hey, let's chill at my place later." She was amenable, but it was obvious I didn't mean immediately. It was a little hard extracting her from the venue, as she had to meet up with her friend and notify her, and I was firm but patient. We got separated multiple times, and I talked to other girls then. I didn't dance with or #/kiss-close any other girls, because babe #1 seemed like such a sure deal.
FWIW, this party was an a cappella party, girls were way more down to earth than the greek types, and the guys there generally had zero game. Artsy types can be interesting, and very easy. They're more lax with parting with their friends, it seemed.
I'm going to try pulling girls home more, and report back. I sense that it'll be harder with freshmen, who travel in flocks that wait for each other without fail.
If you've had success with this, please share.
Send her a text that night with something funny and like "it was cool talking to you
" or whatever. You're anchoring the interaction.In my and my friends' experience, freshmen are worthless teases, if you want sex. And if you get phone numbers of ugly girls (before realizing they were ugly...), delete them, it'll boost your dignity.
Day 2
You have her number, what do you do? She is one of the following:
1)The Hooked: You built a decent amount of rapport with her, making a memorable impression.
2)The Curious: You kept her engaged, for 1 minute or twenty, but you were only one of many interesting people and experiences she had that night. She was attracted to you then, but attraction is momentary. The next day later, she vaguely recalls you as a cool, funny guy, nothing more.
3)Acquaintances: You met her in a class or student group, and spoken with her. There's a good vibe between you two, but a date just doesn't seem appropriate, and you aren't on the closest terms.
Think of guy-friends in this respect – it’s rare that you’ll meet a guy once and become good buddies. Usually, you have something tying you together, or repeated incidental meets. You wouldn’t go out of your way to hang out with a guy you just met unless he was truly compelling, or you truly connected; only through repeated exposure do you start hanging out with him.
So it is with girls. The vast majority of girls you’ll meet at parties are in the second category. No matter your phone or text game, your initial interaction usually just isn’t compelling enough to merit a date, and this is compounded by alcohol consumption. You don’t usually start spending loads of time exclusively with a guy you just met, and so you don’t with girls. When there are so many other people around, the fact that you might not see each other again loses its urgency.
With "The Curious," they will be unwilling to meet up with you for a day 2, and it doesn’t reflect on your game, as community members are inclined to proclaim – you met her in less than optimal circumstances. Or she's not a girl you could build a connection with.
With Acquaintances, a date would just seem off, and might scare her away.
Your strategy hinges on the category to which she belongs.
Course of Action: The Hooked
Invite her over for a glass of wine. She already sees you as a compelling person, you are getting together to enjoy each other’s company. Drink it in your room, to nice music, and start kissing.
An alternative is to go to some event followed by wine at your place, if she is hesitant to enter your house and spend time alone with you. If that’s the case, you may have misclassified her. If you've truly hooked her your presence is all that matters; you don't need an outside attraction to bring you two together. But some girls are prude in this respect.
Speculation: I figure because you're making it such a special occasion, relative to what she's used to, and in a non-needy way, that she'll be inclined to have sex quicker. Your frame is hey, join me for some wine, we'll hang out - very casual. It's easier to build intimacy and comfort in the privacy of your home. She'll think you're a total romantic and will be touched, opening her heart and her vag for you. I've had a 2/2 success rate with this, first date lay. The girls involved weren't slutty.
Note: I like talking with interesting girls, and my day 2 reflects that. Lots of guys like to invite a girl over for a movie and hook up then. Great if it works for them, it's just not my thing.
When you've isolated the girl and have done some solid kino, take her phone and turn it off. Not vibrate, or silent, but off. You're defusing a major potential cockblock.
The Curious
You can’t ask this girl out on a date, to spend time exclusively with you, because you never got enough of an impression for her to merit it. I haven’t solved this issue yet; they don’t call back, and texts have mediocre responses. But… if you were having a party at your house, it would be totally normal for you to invite her (via text) to your party.
Parties are hit or miss, crowded, and she may not even commit a good portion of her night to you. And most notably, you can't be throwing parties every night, every weekend, inviting multiple girls you want to bang to the same place.
Solution: Invite her to pre-game with you and your friends.
Explanation: In college, nearly everyone drinks before they go out, in order to arrive tipsy or drunk at the real parties. Pre-gaming is that, and it is more intimate and laid back than parties, offering what seems a favorable option for solving the dilemma elucidated above. Freshmen especially are on the prowl for invitations to things like these. And all you need is some alcohol to give away.
I haven’t tried this out yet, but it seems very promising. Ideally, you’d want to have some guy friends already with you, so as not to creep the girl out when she walks in and finds you there, alone. She’d be coming with some friends.
I see three possible paths to success:
1) You isolate her from everyone else, in your room, with some excuse, and commence hooking up.
Problem: Her friends will bust in at some point to take her off to the party. She is not likely to resist them, and her friends may deem you sketchy (I’m not sure how you’d come off in this situation). And in all likelihood, she will still want to go out and party. See the next two options
2) You build enough of a connection such that a date on a different night becomes an option.
3) You meet up with her later and take her home with you. Getting her into your house, and more so, setting foot in your bedroom, during the pre-gaming, will make this easier. Your house is no longer a foreboding unknown.
Pre-gaming is better than a date in a way, in that even if you don't have great compatibility with her, your chances of sex are less affected than they would be in the context of a date. It's easier to keep things moving when she's hammered.
Alternative Solution: Meet up with her at a party
Text her on a weekend night, eg, "Hey, what you up to tonight? I heard Alpha Gamma and Sigma Beta for tonight, and also at 407 Maple." I usually mention a couple parties I know about, to be of value and boost the chance of her responding. She'll tell you where she's thinking about going. You might then say "cool, see you at 233 Elm then" [meeting her at the party] or "I'll text you later" [to arrange a meet later]. Don't seem committed to any party - it'll look extremely weak if you say you're going to X and then change your mind to meet her at Y - unless you're convinced she'll go to the party of your choosing or you're ok with not seeing her.
When you get to the party, she'll want alcohol, so go get some drinks with her. Then go take her to the dance floor. Do your thing there, and after a decent amount of time at the party, try to take her home.
Note: I've never really done this last method, I just felt resistant to it.
Acquaintances
The strategy is much the same as with "the curious." One possible difference: she may be willing to pregame with you alone (and you inform her of this), allowing you the opportunity to have a de facto date. You invite her over to pregame, and with luck she'll never leave that night.
Closing
As for getting sex, she will resist, so you will offer nothing for her to resist against. Keep trying to pleasure her within what she allows to advance, and go beyond what she allows a fair bit, while leading with your own behavior.
For instance, if she doesn't allow you to take off her bra just yet, make sure you're topless, and stick your hand underneath her bra and sensously massage her nipples. The bra will come off. Same deal with panties. Some girls like to talk while hooking up. If so, increase her anticipation by putting images in her mind. Sex or even oral sex is not ensured with these methods, but they will maximize the chance of them happening.
Make her take off her jewelry and place it in some obscure spot in your room (though don't conspicuously hide it). She will forget about it, and have to come back for it, which just might be the difference between a steady fuck buddy and a one night stand.
Criticism of College PUA Material:
I found college pickup tenets, like 'build a social circle' unhelpful. I read College Dating Domination a while back, and it's point boils down to "Be a cool guy, have high social status, don't be creepy like Mystery." Wasn't much help, and there are far better books for how to tell you to be a man.
I didn't have a strong coherent circle, and now I'm living with some guys in a mid-level status frat, who have a decent one, but they're getting considerably less ass than me.
And girls don't jump into your arms because you're at a slightly more private party - house parties at my school may just mean fewer people, girls who aren't as easy, and usually uglier.
SC Game may work if you're in a top frat/sports team with loads of groupies - otherwise, you'll probably have to chase the ass rather than let it come to you.
And oh, join a fraternity, a high status one with dudes you like.
PS: Props to Paul Janka, he's proven an inspiration of late by being incredibly real and detailed in his instruction, down to earth, and without the BS that plagues the seduction community.
I feel like my game has increased dramatically in recent weeks, catalyzed by a brief trip alone to montreal. I recommend traveling, alone, and setting aside time on these trips to just relaxing. I’ve been making and breaking personal records since.
