[shibby]

I am looking to relocate to a third world country to
a)Preserve my current savings
b)Learn a new language
c)Spend lots of time reading/increasing my income/working out/looking for business opportunities
d)Possibly work for a 6 months or so to assist in networking/an income etc

I will be relocating (for at least 18 months) around 6 months from now (early 2014). Here’s my deal:
I have around $10k in savings. Will look to add to this in the next 6 months, while locking down some online work that I can do remotely. At this stage, I am not too concerned about money. As long as the location is third world cheap and toothpaste does not cost $5 a tube, I will be fine. So the real question here is, which cities do you know of that satisfy as many of the below criteria as possible:

1.A cheap and safe third world/cheap city where an English, Spanish, Chinese speaking professional might be in demand from an employment perspective.
2.Preferably speaks a global language such as Spanish/French/Portugese (as oppose to something like Polish or Thai).
3.Has hot, thick big titty big booty women of any color.
4. Is not impossible to get a tourist visa that doesn’t only last 14 days.
5. Has reliable internet (very important)
6. Does not rain or snow a shitload, nor is it regularly 35+ degrees C.
7.Has heaps of cool countries nearby to travel to on the cheap.
8.Is not overflowing with expats and tourists.
9.I know Asia is ideal but I am well traveled in Asia, plus I am Asian, plus I hate the weather in Asia, plus I am bored of Asian chicks. Therefore I’m ruling Asia out for now, unless any of you know of some hidden gems out there

I was thinking one of the lesser visited countries in Central America like Nicaragua or maybe even tier 2 Mexico, Uruguay also came to mind, perhaps something in Eastern Europe, or West Africa. Also considering East Africa, I know this region reasonably well, would consider somewhere like Nairobi/Mombasa, Swahili is a cool language too, but it’s not high on my list. Really haven’t come up with anything concrete. Do you know of any cities that fit the bill? Even if it’s not a third world country, I’d consider a smaller city in a tier 1 country that has low cost of living etc. In fact, this might even be preferable. Would appreciate any suggestions you can think of.

Thanks a lot amigos.

[Volk]

Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Brasil, barely. Anywhere else in latin america will not suit your expectations. Even those 4 will not meet all of them. Prioritize your goals and then look again. You want to save some money, yet you want a safe country with demand in bilingual people that doesn't have too many expats and with hot women.That's a little like finding El Dorado.

[shibby]

(08-20-2013 10:12 AM)Volk Wrote:  

Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Brasil, barely. Anywhere else in latin america will not suit your expectations. Even those 4 will not meet all of them. Prioritize your goals and then look again. You want to save some money, yet you want a safe country with demand in bilingual people that doesn't have too many expats and with hot women.That's a little like finding El Dorado.

As I said, a city that meets as many criteria as possible. I'm aware there won't be many cities, if any, that meet them all.

Thanks for your suggestions, I've been giving thought to Uruguay, not sure how cheap it really is though. Been to Argentina, not sure I liked it much.

[bacon]

Mexico is a good option since the internet is good throughout most of the country, 180 day tourist visas issued easy for Americans, no problem finding big booty chicks. Outside of beach resort cities not many tourists. Weather especially in central Mexico is very hard to beat. Food is on par with the best in the world assuming you can take spice. Cost of living is low and since its government is pretty broken working illegally here is usually not an issue. The safetly issue is overblown as many states/cities are perfectly safe assuming your not in the drug business/journalist or in politics. I would be hardpressed to recommend a individual city(many good ones to choose from) but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Mexico go there to pick the size you want and then look to http://www.weatherbase.com to get an idea of the weather in said city. As a rule of thumb girls in the southern states are more indian in features while the more north you go the more european the look.

(Mexico has one of the best bus systems in the world IMO so you can always just arrive in the DF or a major city and travel (cheaply/easily) to find a city that suits your preference)

I would add many people (guys mostly) spent time working or were raised for some years in the US so they have a good command of the english language.

[OSL]

Second and third tier Thailand and Philippines meet a lot of these requirements.

[shibby]

Thanks bacon, that's helpful. Mexico is up there on my list.

YMG, I lived in Manila for a couple of months and it definitely ticks a lot of the boxes. Great city. However I get itchy feet easily, time to move on from Asia for me I think.

[Bad Hussar]

Will you try to make the $10,000 last the whole 18 months, or will you be spending money earned during that time as well? In that case what is your monthly budget? And will this include medical expenses/insurance or not?

[phil81]

(08-20-2013 10:23 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 10:12 AM)Volk Wrote:  

Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Brasil, barely. Anywhere else in latin america will not suit your expectations. Even those 4 will not meet all of them. Prioritize your goals and then look again. You want to save some money, yet you want a safe country with demand in bilingual people that doesn't have too many expats and with hot women.That's a little like finding El Dorado.

As I said, a city that meets as many criteria as possible. I'm aware there won't be many cities, if any, that meet them all.

Thanks for your suggestions, I've been giving thought to Uruguay, not sure how cheap it really is though. Been to Argentina, not sure I liked it much.

I don't understand your comments. You write a travel blog that says you have traveled to at least 5 continents but you create a list of criteria that is full of contradictions. Latin America is the only place that comes close if you are excluding Asia but you should already know that.

Why commit to one city for 18 months? Why not pick a region and travel around?

[shibby]

(08-20-2013 02:31 PM)phil81 Wrote:  

I don't understand your comments. You write a travel blog that says you have traveled to at least 5 continents but you create a list of criteria that is full of contradictions. Latin America is the only place that comes close if you are excluding Asia but you should already know that.

How should I already know that? Yes I’ve been to every continent, bar Antarctica, but I haven’t been to Eastern Europe FSU, North Africa, West Africa, Southern Africa, Middle East, most of Western Europe, Central America, the Caribbean. I’m certain there are MANY great liveable cities out there that are cheap, relatively safe, have good internet, don’t speak some obscure language like Amharic, are not tourist bombs like Phuket, have good looking women, are not sub zero or boiling hot temperatures, and value English speakers. I strongly disagree when you say Latin America is the only option. Can you exclude every city in West Africa? It’s full of fast developing countries that speak French. What about somewhere East like Mozambique that speaks Portugese? Aren’t there some great cities in EE that are Russian speaking? I’ve never been to these places, so I can’t comment. Hence why I asked for suggestions. On here there’s always someone who knows about great cities I’ve never heard of.
I agree Latin America has many great options. It’s probably my front runner right now.

(08-20-2013 02:31 PM)phil81 Wrote:  

Why commit to one city for 18 months? Why not pick a region and travel around?

One city as a base, and I intend to travel around. Hence why I asked for a place that has some neighboring countries to travel to, not somewhere remote like New Caledonia.

[shibby]

(08-20-2013 11:44 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Will you try to make the $10,000 last the whole 18 months, or will you be spending money earned during that time as well? In that case what is your monthly budget? And will this include medical expenses/insurance or not?

$10k will certainly not last the whole 18 months, I have a very small passive income but I will mostly depend on online work and perhaps employment when I hit the ground. I might teach English if worst comes to worst. Insurance is sorted.

[theArbiter]

Quote:

At this stage, I am not too concerned about money. As long as the location is third world cheap

That's a slight bit of a contradiction, ain't it? So you want a cheap place pretty much? Why don't you lay out a monthly budget? It'd be a lot easier to sort out the financial stuff this way or at least give a solid reference point as to the limits to where money isn't an issue.

In any case, it looks like Mexico or Central America or parts of South America would be well suited for you.

Otherwise, there are some pretty cheap places in Eastern Europe with decent infrastructure, but the disadvantage is perhaps the potentially cold weather, the Schengen 90/180 issue (you could rotate a Schengen country + Romania/Balkans for 90 days each, plus a brief visit to another non-Schengen country for two days), and the lack of a "major" language unless you want to do Ukraine. As for pricing, I've seen apartments on the Hungarian rental sites go lower than $300 a month (though you would probably not a local Hungarian to help you on this) in Budapest.

I also want to throw Morocco out there just as a consideration. It's a country where far more French is spoken than English and the talent is said to be good (though it is a Muslim country, albeit not as conservative as the Middle east). I don't think it's as cheap as it used to be due to many Europeans taking the vacations here, but you it might be manageable. I heard Asians have a good reputation there except near the Spanish border, where you may have kids making stereotypical comments. If you book early enough in advance, I think there are some Easyjet flights into Europe depending on where in Morocco you are staying (most flights exist from Marrakech). Outside of Marrakech, the flights are more limited.

Still, south of the USA seems to be most balanced of the choices.

[OSL]

In Latin America I feel like Colombia fits all of your needs. Medellin in particular.

Business opportunities abound as well.

Shibby, why do you not have an email optin form on your blog?

Or am I not seeing it?

[shibby]

(08-21-2013 01:41 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

In Latin America I feel like Colombia fits all of your needs. Medellin in particular.

Business opportunities abound as well.

Shibby, why do you not have an email optin form on your blog?

Or am I not seeing it?

To be honest, that blog has really just been a private blog/personal journal kind of thing and a place to compile travel info for some close friends of mine. It was only when I got some +ve feedback on some of my sheets that I figured to share it here. I spent a couple of days making it a little more pretty, but it’s still pretty rough. I’ll add that contact form. Any other suggestions?

I’ve been to Medellin, albeit only for 3 days. It’s getting a little overrun with backpackers but still pretty fresh comparative to SEA etc. Great city, if I’m in that area of the world, I’ll definitely spend more time there. I was horribly bad with women back then and I’d like to go give it another shot.

[shibby]

(08-21-2013 01:30 AM)theArbiter Wrote:  

Otherwise, there are some pretty cheap places in Eastern Europe with decent infrastructure, but the disadvantage is perhaps the potentially cold weather, the Schengen 90/180 issue (you could rotate a Schengen country + Romania/Balkans for 90 days each, plus a brief visit to another non-Schengen country for two days), and the lack of a "major" language unless you want to do Ukraine. As for pricing, I've seen apartments on the Hungarian rental sites go lower than $300 a month (though you would probably not a local Hungarian to help you on this) in Budapest.

Eastern Europe is one area I'm very poorly educated on. $300 a month for an apartment is super cheap. I'll read up on this, thanks. My cousin said Budapest was an awesome little place.

(08-21-2013 01:30 AM)theArbiter Wrote:  

I also want to throw Morocco out there just as a consideration. It's a country where far more French is spoken than English and the talent is said to be good (though it is a Muslim country, albeit not as conservative as the Middle east). I don't think it's as cheap as it used to be due to many Europeans taking the vacations here, but you it might be manageable. I heard Asians have a good reputation there except near the Spanish border, where you may have kids making stereotypical comments. If you book early enough in advance, I think there are some Easyjet flights into Europe depending on where in Morocco you are staying (most flights exist from Marrakech). Outside of Marrakech, the flights are more limited.

That's interesting, I'll look into this. I had no idea they spoke French in Morocco. I thought they'd speak some form of Arabic. Superbly placed between Sub Saharan Africa and Spain too, travel wise. Won't be too bothered with kids making stereotypical comments, been dealing with that shit all my life.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

[theArbiter]

They speak French in Morocco because of two things 1) French colonization and 2) they decided to keep the French language in use after independence since they believed this to be strategic. Thus, French is often (or maybe IS) the primary language used in secondary and post-secondary education. I used to think that French was completely useless, but fuck, there are quite a bit of countries and regions that speak this language to a significant degree.

The main language there, however, is Moroccan Arabic, which is similar to the Arabic spoken in neighboring Algeria and Tunisia, of which they are typically categorized over as Mahgrebi Arabic (includes Libya and parts of Mauritania as well). Unfortunately, it's the most divergent of the Arabic dialects, so learning this might still give you a hard time compared to Egyptian Arabic or some sort of Gulf Arabic. It's probably not worth learning for most people.

I just mentioned that comment about the kids just to provide a contrast between the northern tip of Morocco versus the rest of the country a bit down, where the ignorance level turns on its head to something positive for Asians. I've no doubt that you'd be able to handle it either way. I mean, there was this Moroccan girl down in one of the major cities who told me "Ils raffolent des chinois", which translates more or less to "They're crazy about/fond of Chinese people". It's probably a bit of an exaggeration, but hey, it doesn't hurt.

For Budapest, I'd say it's one of my favorite cities in the world, if not my favorite. It may not have as much pure stunners as the FSU, but there is a large variety of looks. I say it is a really balanced city in many respects (the city layout thanks to the Danube splitting it two sides: a quiet Buda and a bustling Pest, an optimal blend of Western Europe and Eastern Europe culture, convenient location in Europe, opportunity to ball out or stay in the down low, etc.).

Even if you don't pick these two destinations, since I do still feel parts of Latin America fit more to your needs, keep these two places in mind in the future. They're worth going to on their own right.

[shibby]

Arbiter thanks for this, this is some great insight, Budapest and Morocco are now on my radar, 2 places I hadn't even thought of. Will do some serious reading on them.

And yes, French is very worthwhile, probably more so than Spanish, it's almost spoken on every continent.

[phil81]

(08-20-2013 11:59 PM)shibby Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 02:31 PM)phil81 Wrote:  

I don't understand your comments. You write a travel blog that says you have traveled to at least 5 continents but you create a list of criteria that is full of contradictions. Latin America is the only place that comes close if you are excluding Asia but you should already know that.

How should I already know that? Yes I’ve been to every continent, bar Antarctica, but I haven’t been to Eastern Europe FSU, North Africa, West Africa, Southern Africa, Middle East, most of Western Europe, Central America, the Caribbean. I’m certain there are MANY great liveable cities out there that are cheap, relatively safe, have good internet, don’t speak some obscure language like Amharic, are not tourist bombs like Phuket, have good looking women, are not sub zero or boiling hot temperatures, and value English speakers. I strongly disagree when you say Latin America is the only option. Can you exclude every city in West Africa? It’s full of fast developing countries that speak French. What about somewhere East like Mozambique that speaks Portugese? Aren’t there some great cities in EE that are Russian speaking? I’ve never been to these places, so I can’t comment. Hence why I asked for suggestions. On here there’s always someone who knows about great cities I’ve never heard of.
I agree Latin America has many great options. It’s probably my front runner right now.

(08-20-2013 02:31 PM)phil81 Wrote:  

Why commit to one city for 18 months? Why not pick a region and travel around?

One city as a base, and I intend to travel around. Hence why I asked for a place that has some neighboring countries to travel to, not somewhere remote like New Caledonia.

Your data sheets are awesome and very detailed. But maybe you're too deep in the details in an analysis of cities all over the world and you aren’t seeing the forest through the trees. You can spend months researching or take a step back and realize that your criteria eliminates the entire world except LTA and maybe EE depending on how you define some things. Picking a city before picking the region or country is like trying to pick which belt you want to wear with a suit before you have picked the suit.

If it was me I would pick the region first, then pick a few cities in that region, and visit those cities before making a final decision. No amount of reading or getting advice on a forum is going to tell you which city is best for you like spending time in those cities will. This also gives you the option of doing something like spending 6 months each in 3 cities instead of 18 months in 1 city.

[Bad Hussar]

(08-21-2013 12:01 AM)shibby Wrote:  

(08-20-2013 11:44 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Will you try to make the $10,000 last the whole 18 months, or will you be spending money earned during that time as well? In that case what is your monthly budget? And will this include medical expenses/insurance or not?

$10k will certainly not last the whole 18 months, I have a very small passive income but I will mostly depend on online work and perhaps employment when I hit the ground. I might teach English if worst comes to worst. Insurance is sorted.

OK, here's a cost of living breakdown for Cape Town South Africa I posted in another thread. Since your medical insurance is sorted the only other big cost to take into consideration would be the capital cost of buying a car. Can do without it, especially in central Cape Town, but miles better if you have a car. Other than that $2,000 per month would give you a fairly good lifestyle for a young single person.

As for work, I come across young people from the Anglosphere working in restaurants, bars and stores every now and then. Basically doing what you intend to. Working in order to be able to travel. Which to be honest is a better way of seeing a country than most tourists experience. Young people can get a one year work visa's. I don't know much about it, but check out these people to arrange this: http://www.sasts.org.za/worksa.php

Costs in less popular cities than Cape Town will be lower, but not ridiculously lower. Really only rent will be cheaper. And maybe entertainment, but only a little).

The main point against Cape Town, and South Africa as a whole, is that you will have a higher statistical chance of experiencing violence than most other places you are likely to consider. This is a complex subject, and everyone needs to do their own research in order to decide whether visiting is in their comfort zone. Whatever else you can say about it, it is an extraordinarily beautiful country. Difficult to get the kind of variety in climate, landscapes, people, fauna, flora etc. that you'd encounter here in another country.

Here's the cost breakdown for Cape Town

Quote:

RE: Cost Of Living Around The World
The Mercer CoL report suffers because it only seems to report on the costs of a few select expats. If you're in HR at Shell or BP and trying to figure out staff costs the list is useful. If you're an international playboy it's not that useful since you will be living more like a local than an oil industry expat. And believe me, locals in Luanda, Angola do not have one of the highest living costs in the world. More like one of the lowest.

As a contribution for people interested I'll breakdown living costs for an international playboy type on a budget in Cape Town, South Africa:

Basically, living in Cape Town Central Business District with lot's of bars/clubs nearby. Cost should be around....

$1,300 per month base for one person.

Including
Rent (likely very small, but nice enough, furnished studio apartment with parking)
Transport costs (basic car insurance, petrol for city trips, oil, bus fare when travelling by public transport, minor car servicing, the rare cab for CBD trips only late at night)
Food and Toiletries(Good whole foods, not packaged rubbish. But not organic The odd cheap meal out, but not really including eating out. The odd dinner for two...too.)
Cleaning supplies.
Internet and cell phone (3G or LTA. Limited to around 10 - 20 GB data per month. Internet expensive in SA. Moderate cellphone use)
Satelite TV (Also expensive in SA. Could do without it. Good for sports but SA is an ex-British colony. It's all rugby, cricket, soccer etc.)
Electricity
Gym (Use the gym in the apartment building. Around $60/month if you want an external gym)

Excluding:
Maid service/External laundry service
Clothing of any kind
Eating out. Partying in general
Capital cost and major repairs for the car
Medical costs and medical insurance.
Trips out of town.

Figure to add $200 per month at the low end for "entertainment"/partying, maybe up to $700 at the mid-level, and you have around $1,500 to $2,000 per month. which isn't really too bad. The split by category goes something like this:

Rent $650
Transport Costs $120
Food, Toiletries, Cleaning supplies $350
Internet and cellphone $65
Satelite TV $65
Electricity $35

[shibby]

I've never been to South Africa, but there's one country more than any other that I hear so much shit about people get raped, beaten, stabbed, murdered, shot, kidnapped and it's South Africa. Mostly Johannesburg. I heard Cape Town is a lot safer.

I remember I met a photojournalist who did a story on the slums there. He said he pretty much shat his pants walking through there. Scariest place he's ever been. And he's been to Congo and Somalia.

On the other hand, of the few people I know personally that have visited/lived there, they all say it is an AMAZING place to party, has great beaches and has pretty good infrastructure. There's obviously 2 very different worlds within the country. I'll definitely go one day, but not sure I'm game to live there for an extended period of time.

[shibby]

Hey, YMG. Off topic kinda but as a fellow Asian guy who is also pretty well traveled, where did you find the girls were most receptive to you? Anywhere stand out in particular?

[OSL]

Good luck!

-

[shibby]

Really, Eastern Europe? Would never have guessed.

Can you vouch for any countries in particular, bar Poland?

I found SEA particularly welcoming with many girls, as well as parts of East Africa.

Found that thread, it's long, I'll read through it when I have time.

[shibby]

Just read that thread.

Wow.

I think Eastern Europe just shot to the top of my list.

[Volk]

Budapest is amazing but you will struggle with the language, and also since you don't speak it, you could get thrown in the same bag as the expats and the fleapackers are. Besides this it's a great place.
May I recommend the baltics? You could practice Russian there, they are also cheap and they are in good demand for jobs. In Hungary there are many jobs in a few areas, but the process is long and it will 100% favor Hungarians over you when they post a work permit.

Skip Colombia.

[shibby]

I'm really leaning towards the idea of Baltic States or somewhere else in that Eastern European region. Never been anywhere near there, whereas I've already spent time in LatAm and Africa.

So many options in that region though, just surfing this forum is information overload, and it's basically only about girls.