[MD81]

(08-07-2013 09:40 PM)Capitán Peligroso Wrote:  

Quote:

However I am more of a sucker for Ukrainian girls though.

Why exactly?

Matter of personal taste. Russian girls in general have too skinny legs - while Ukrainians have more developed thighs which is a turn ON for me. Ukrainians have more sexuality too. Having said that Russian girls are more cultured and sophisticated; based on which I would prefer Russians over Ukrainians for relationship. Ukrainians are more pump and dump type in general.

[MD81]

(08-08-2013 12:43 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(08-07-2013 05:15 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Hell of a data sheet man. Encyclopedic. +1

Thanks man glad its helpful.

@ TheDuke - thanks, am going to read your Kharkiv sheet sometime soon, think a trip there might be in order for me just to compare the women

@MD81 wow suprised to hear Moscow is easier than Kiev. Thought it was the other way around, maybe the UK and European traffic screwed it all up due to no visa requirement?

Re Maxim, yeah I knew about that place but haven't gone yet. Might try it this weekend - the market on top of the mall there is pretty sweet too, could 'insta-date' if you wanted given all those little bar/food areas there.

Well this is my experience. Some of my friends have exactly opposite experience. And I was comparing this on chances of ONS level.

Kiev can still be 'gold' if you live there though. For some reason all the girls decide not to fuck you as they know you are a tourist (too much of stereotype being developed) If you are living in Kiev you can have a more effective (cost and quality) harem honestly.

[The Duke]

Is there much difference in Moscow between the center and the suburbs? Does English proficiency drop? Is there good nightlife in the suburbs?

For Kiev, I think it was Vorkuta who suggested checking out the nightlife in the surburbs of Kiev opposed to center for various reasons. I'm wondering if the same reasons apply (more or less) to Moscow as well.

[Akula]

(08-09-2013 04:37 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

Is there much difference in Moscow between the center and the suburbs? Does English proficiency drop? Is there good nightlife in the suburbs?

For Kiev, I think it was Vorkuta who suggested checking out the nightlife in the surburbs of Kiev opposed to center for various reasons. I'm wondering if the same reasons apply (more or less) to Moscow as well.

Sorry it's been awhile, but to answer your question, frankly I'm not all that sure really as I haven't been too far out. I'm sure there are some decent local places out there, and it's a goal of mine to find a few of them. I think English proficiency will diminish as you get farther from the center.

The expensive suburbs like Rublovka probably have some interesting stuff too, but it would be very expensive.

Kiev seems to be a bit of a different animal from what I know.

[Arado]

Given the amount of attention Moscow has received I thought I’d throw in some info on my experience there.

Ok folks, my two year stint in Moscow has thankfully ended. No point reinventing the wheel, so I’m going to put this as an add on to the above data sheet. I have become very jaded here towards Russia/Muscovites due to the poor treatment that nonwhite people receive, but I’ll try to be as objective as possible for everyone else, and I’ve commented extensively on the racism in other threads, but I’ll still comment on it here a bit. This report will largely focus on Moscow, but I’ll talk about the average Russian when appropriate. For reference, I’ve written previously on Mexico (did very decently there) and Central Asia (see Almaty and Bishkek reports). Also, for reference, I’ve been to Poland and the Baltics and had much better experiences there reception wise. I do great in NYC and ok in DC and Cali.

Having been back in the States for a month already, I think that in cities such as Vegas or NYC, the equivalent 7 is overall friendlier then in Moscow. The people here suck. Coming here only in the summer gives a warped perception of the friendliness.

The City/The Country
It would take an entire book to boil down the effect of the political and economic situation, but to keep it short, this is no longer the 1990’s. Before moving here in 2011, I last visited the country in 2001. It’s a dramatically transformed place. Russians (or at least Muscovites) have sufficient disposable income to travel, eat out, go clubbing, buy cars, etc. So, with the exception of immigrants from Central Asia, your average Russian you meet in Moscow is going to be doing ok economically and you won’t be able to wow them with your foreigner status or bankroll. Plus, foreigners are getting more and more common with cheap flights from Europe and a new visa regime.

The Women
There are tons of threads floating around about how Russia is hell for women and a paradise for men. Honestly, that’s not the vibe I’ve been getting here. Flakes are quite common, and women have multiple suitors. Natasha that you meet in the club has already been to at least Turkey in Egypt and has had dudes throw themselves at her left and right so she knows her value.

2 years here and I haven’t solved the psychology of how to interact with them as a nonwhite person so I’m going to pass on this.

Climate
There is one major constraint on day game: the weather sucks balls here from early November to mid April – it’s essentially solid snow cover. From December to February, there are weeks on end where it doesn’t get about 15 Fahrenheit. It’s tough and the people are much less friendly.

The summers are nice, though. May till late September it’s usually sunny and it doesn’t get disgustingly hot like in DC or NYC, though sometimes it can linger in the 90’s for a few days.

Day Game
Ok, so assuming you are coming in the summer, there are a few places for day game. The parks are great – Gorky Park, VDNK, and others. Gorky is great because along the riverside they have salsa and hiphop during the bright summer evenings, tons of people, some very attractive women. Have brought my dog to Gorky and gotten some numbers.

Old Arbat street is also a favorite, lots of tourist and Russian girls standing around any time of day that can be opened with English. I’ve gotten some numbers here. I have also approached on New Arbat street. Just a few days ago by speaking Russian with some of the salespeople (fed up with tourists) I got a number.

Red square also seems to have tons of people hanging out, though I never got a number here.



Night Game
There’s lots of options, but you HAVE to be mindful of face control. It can kill a night quite easily when someone in your group can’t get into a venue. The easiest thing to do is everyone together goes to a place and everyone gets in or no one gets in. Huge hassle. Get there early, dress well, try to avoid having ethnic or unattractive people in your group if possible. Some places are easy to get in, others are a minefield.


Spots:
He’s already hit on most of the clubs, so I’m going to focus on some places that are good for brown and black guys: salsa clubs. These are places where women are more open to nonwhite guys and you won’t get shafted by face control. Only problem, is that every other brown and black dude in the city also knows about it, so you’ll be competing with Cuban Jose who is fluent in Russian and knows salsa. And because you are ethnic, your identification as an American/European will not register with most girls.

One of my favorite places to start out a night (in the summer) is the plaza outside of Цум department store, lots of people outside drinking beer, very friendly vibe. Approach in English and you will easily get numbers.

Pancho Villa: Mexican Restaurant and bar, it is pretty hopping on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. A bit small and packed, 150 ruble cover, but decent crowd though occasionally a sausagefest. Some reggaeton and top 40, bachata, cumbia.

Old Havana: Hardcore salsa music in the evenings, then gets more reggaeton/top 40ish later at night, goes strong till 4am. Lots of numbers and a few makeouts from here. Lots of Turkish guys, and the guy at the door will give a bit of hassle if you aren’t white.
:
Papa Joes: This has a very fun vibe, though service at the bar is terrible. Have salsa dancing shows that gets the Russian women riled up.

Casa Agave: Come here for Friday happy hour and thank me later. Pound for pound the most attractive and approachable women earlier in the night – after 1am the quality definitely deteriorates. Not sure about Saturdays.

Tips for brown people: SPEAK ENGLISH! This will help distinguish you from the Turkish, Caucasian, and Central Asian guys. I often opened girls thinking my fluent Russian will help. Nope – English works better, because you have the advantage and it puts them on the defensive.

Another problem I had was that I kept trying to get them to identify me with my American nationality, though the Russian women kept focusing on my Indian background, which I barely identify with. That identity disconnect probably prevented the necessary emotional buttons being pressed and therefore cost me some bangs. Oh well, lesson learned.

If I had to do my two year stint in Moscow, I would have first learned salsa before I came, then I would have worn glasses more frequently, and put out the most sophisticated vibe possible (In terms of dress and grooming, etc) in order to set me apart the most from the Turkish and Arab guys. I would have worked hard on cultivating some sort of stereotypical image that would have appealed hard to a specific type of girl rather than try and mix images in terms of being brown, American, fun, and intellectual. Subtlety is often lost here.

It was an unhappy two years, and I have a mixture of regret and envy seeing others tear up this city, but to all you people saying race doesn’t matter, it does here! All those touting Moscow as a great destination are all white or perhaps olive skinned, but not darker then that I bet. Given the continuing crackdown on immigrants, I’m happy to be gone.

Happy hunting. I’d take Vegas, NYC, Poland, SE Asia, Baltics, Mexico, Scandinavia any day over Moscow.

[BigDave]

Thanks for all the advice here. I'm moving to Moscow soon, although I lived there earlier in the 2000s. Lots of changes and a lot of my old standby's (Real McCoy, Boarhouse, etc.) seem to be shut down. Those two were great back in 2005 or so, but went way downhill after that.

[Arg expert]

(11-13-2013 11:56 PM)BigDave Wrote:  

Thanks for all the advice here. I'm moving to Moscow soon, although I lived there earlier in the 2000s. Lots of changes and a lot of my old standby's (Real McCoy, Boarhouse, etc.) seem to be shut down. Those two were great back in 2005 or so, but went way downhill after that.

The Real McCoy! that was something... much, much more classy than Boarhouse, of course, and better situated too. I will miss it, it seems. Anyway, please keep us posted and tell us about how you feel Moscow has changed in ten years... night venues and all...

[BigDave]

Thanks for the great data sheet, this really is a gold mine. I tried gipsy tonight but was faced around 11:00pm. Everyone going up was getting faced, so I didn't feel too bad.

Rolling Stone was dead, maybe too early? I headed out for greener pastures.

[Akula]

(12-27-2013 07:34 PM)BigDave Wrote:  

Thanks for the great data sheet, this really is a gold mine. I tried gipsy tonight but was faced around 11:00pm. Everyone going up was getting faced, so I didn't feel too bad.

Rolling Stone was dead, maybe too early? I headed out for greener pastures.

Wow - Gypsy has really changed and gotten too big for it's britches the past couple of years. People I know get faced their all the time now which just sucks. It's not that great in winter really IMO anyway - lot of 'see and be seen' type girls looking to hook rich Russian guys too. It can be ok from time to time but as you found out the feis control is getting out of hand.

Barbados has been good to me lately and have not had a problem getting in. Don't Tell Mama is right next door too. Also Icon is good late night. Rolling starts around 1:30-2 but you sort of need to show up early say by 12:00 to get in at least in my experience. It really doesn't get going until 2 o'clock usually sort of like Krisha (which can be good but also a bit of a rich Russian partier / drug den late night).

Somebody told me Mendeleev has been ok recently on Thurs/Friday and that the Buddah Bar has actually picked up. It's about time on the latter as the last 2x I was there Buddah was pretty slow. Also there seems to be a nice little scene at Dandy Cafe at the beginning of Novy Arbat where they have a DJ - can also go there earlier on and just eat. Jagger has been 'hit or miss' recently I'd say but when it's good it's been really good. Finally, I think Pasha changed it's name and is now a new bar/club but have not been there - maybe worth checking it out.

[Alpha Mind]

Wow. Epic contribution. Well done, good sir.

[edlefou]

Quick question for the Moscow vets.

How's Basmanny neighborhood vs Tverskaya?

It's in the NE quadrant of the circle, as opposed to Tverskaya in the NW.

I've a lot about Tverskaya in the data sheets, but nothing on Basmanny, although a google result refers to it as an expat haven, which doesn't sound too appealing.

[Courage Reborn]

(04-28-2015 03:01 AM)edlefou Wrote:  

Basmanny, although a google result refers to it as an expat haven

Link?

Unless I've been missing out on secrets, NW Moscow is where it's at.

[edlefou]

(04-28-2015 07:59 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Link?

The third result on google.ru is an article from almost 5 years ago, so not sure what to make of it.

I figure since it's within the ring and not too far from Chinatown it might still be good for logistics and save me a few hundred bucks vs Tverskaya, which is the optimal location based on all the data sheets.

[Menace]

BTW Kitai Gorod (Chinatown) has nothing to do with China. The word "kitai" means China in Russian, but also refers to some kind of wooden planks (I think), which is where the place got its name.

[Akula]

^^^ hah I always wondered how it got the name thanks for that.

RE neighborhoods, as CR said NW is good (anything around Kievskaya to Novy Arbat up to 1905 and Novoslobodskaya). I'd say anything in or around the ring is fine actually - for some reason I never really knew many people at all who lived over in the eastern part of the city - most expats were very central or to the west. Pretty much all the better bars, clubs and restaurants are right in the center or just to the west a bit. Tverskaya will be more of a primo area for sure and you'd pay up for it a bit.

I recently heard that Gypsy is re-opening just in time for the summer season

[TripleG]

I've been trying to get a concise answer but keep getting conflicting reports, is it worth being situated around Red October art/entertainment island? From the pictures and write ups online I see tons of bars and restaurants in one location and many seem to have open rooftops which IMHO is the best type of bar to chill at, socialize, and run game at.

[slubu]

(04-28-2015 03:19 PM)Akula Wrote:  

I recently heard that Gypsy is re-opening just in time for the summer season

It already happened a few weeks ago. I may know a thing or two about what that night was like...

[Akula]

(04-28-2015 08:43 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

I've been trying to get a concise answer but keep getting conflicting reports, is it worth being situated around Red October art/entertainment island? From the pictures and write ups online I see tons of bars and restaurants in one location and many seem to have open rooftops which IMHO is the best type of bar to chill at, socialize, and run game at.

Yeah it's the center of nightlife in the city in many ways and it would be amazing to just walk from Icon, Rolling, Strelka or Gypsy to your crib with ladies in tow. Hell some ladies might just come over for the convenience as I'm convinced that most girls end up out past 6 bc they are taking the subway home and that's when it opens.

There is a grocery store right on the main street going towards the Kremlin but generally I don't think there are a lot of the other stores you'd need in most neighborhoods so that would be the downside. Would generally be a bit harder to get around I think - you'd be taking taxis a lot to go places as the walk to the metro is probably 10+ minutes over the bridges depending on where you are located on the island (if closer to the club side it's easier and a shorter distance). Traffic getting out might be pretty brutal sometimes.

But you literally can't be any more central that that area, would not be the worst place to live.

(04-30-2015 05:48 AM)slubu Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 03:19 PM)Akula Wrote:  

I recently heard that Gypsy is re-opening just in time for the summer season

It already happened a few weeks ago. I may know a thing or two about what that night was like...

go on

[mcgooie]

Hey guys, where would be best place to look for accommodation for a stay of between 2-6 weeks in Moscow?

[TripleG]

I recently used booking.com for my upcoming May trip...found better deals on it than airbnb and all within the first ring, i.e., 15 minutes walk to Red Square.

[_Cicero]

Re: Location in Moscow. If you can get in walking distance of Red October, do it (10 minutes totally fine). My recommendation would be on the side near Tretyakovskaya -- its a really nice neighborhood, lots of great day-gaming and dating options. Honestly, I feel like you can't go that wrong anywhere in Moscow. Cabs are cheap. The metro is cheap and fast. Getting home from Red October can be a hassle b/c everyone wants a cab at that point, so if you can walk 5 minutes to your hotel/flat, that would be an advantage. There are plenty of other clubs/bars in the city, but if you're here for a short time then I'd hit Red October. Usually good to arrive there around midnight, so doing it from 12-5 and then metro-ing it home is normal.

[TripleG]

Red October Island is already happening. I spent the evening last night at high-end Strelka rooftop bar overlooking Храм Христа Спасителя and the river. The view is amazing, one of the best i've seen anywhere in the world. The ratio was good with about 3 females to 1 male however I did see many foreigners attempting pickup. Most seemed to be the banker types who work there full time and could speak decent Russian.

I set down at a table with my date (she's only a 6.5 by local standards but an 8 in usa) and was speaking half Russian half English with her. As soon as I would speak English I could see a table full of girls next to me perk up and makes extensive eye contact. Were I not on a date I feel like this could be approach heaven as Strelka has a great outdoors bar specifically for that and the women here come to meet foreigners. The women at Strelka did seem to be on the older side, I would say mid 20's to mid 30's but that's exactly how I like it as I'm looking for a relationship. Weather also finally is co-operating, it was a pleasant +19c last night.

One more observation about Moscow as I am concluding my first week here. I realized this city probably has the highest number of beauty salons that I have seen of any world city. One can make a correlation between number of beauty salons/spas and the availability of women. Supply breeds demand (Adam Smith basic economics) and there is an overabundance of women and lack of men, SO the single one's (but I noticed even married) all go out of the way to these salons to look their best 24-7.