[The Great Basilisk]

(03-21-2014 08:34 AM)Marmite Wrote:  

Do you recommend learning Python 2.7, or Python 3.3?

Also, what kind of typing speed would you need to work as a programmer?

Typing speed should be the least of your concerns.

[frenchcorporation]

(03-21-2014 08:34 AM)Marmite Wrote:  

Do you recommend learning Python 2.7, or Python 3.3?

Also, what kind of typing speed would you need to work as a programmer?

python 2.7 is what you'll find being used in industry,due to most python frameworks/packages not having a python 3 version. so id go with 2.7. However the situation is getting better for python 3 steadily

and typing speed is irrelevant, that won't be your limiting factor in software development

[BLarsen]

(03-21-2014 07:11 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

found a post that echoes my initial post, the author details a similar path with python/django, and ruby/rails (its not me, honest)
http://peteh.me/posts/from-zero-to-summe...ne-months/

This post is great stuff, but I noticed he did a ton of Computer Science shit (Data structures, algorithms, Big O notation).

Obviously you'll need to study algorithms to pass the coding challenge during interviews, but data structures?? Big O notation??? WTF does that have to do with slinging web pages?

[PanzerTape]

(03-22-2014 04:38 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 07:11 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

found a post that echoes my initial post, the author details a similar path with python/django, and ruby/rails (its not me, honest)
http://peteh.me/posts/from-zero-to-summe...ne-months/

This post is great stuff, but I noticed he did a ton of Computer Science shit (Data structures, algorithms, Big O notation).

Obviously you'll need to study algorithms to pass the coding challenge during interviews, but data structures?? Big O notation??? WTF does that have to do with slinging web pages?

You'll know if you have to scale anything up in size.
Otherwise you'll pull a Gox. (google mtgox for more info)

[frenchcorporation]

(03-22-2014 04:38 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 07:11 AM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

found a post that echoes my initial post, the author details a similar path with python/django, and ruby/rails (its not me, honest)
http://peteh.me/posts/from-zero-to-summe...ne-months/

This post is great stuff, but I noticed he did a ton of Computer Science shit (Data structures, algorithms, Big O notation).

Obviously you'll need to study algorithms to pass the coding challenge during interviews, but data structures?? Big O notation??? WTF does that have to do with slinging web pages?

youll need to now about data structures (such as lists, tuples, arrays, dictionaries) for web development, but thankfully theyre not that hard to get your head around.

As for big o notation, I didnt know what it was until I googled it after reading the article, so I doubt youll run into it in at the start of your web development career

[invictusiii]

Just landed my first remote development job working with PHP and Javascript. I'm kind of bummed that I didn't really make it as a freelancer but happy I'm able to earn a steady paycheck again and learn more about how the business actually works this time around. I'll be back to working for myself again eventually.

[Cattle Rustler]

(03-23-2014 09:27 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  

Just landed my first remote development job working with PHP and Javascript. I'm kind of bummed that I didn't really make it as a freelancer but happy I'm able to earn a steady paycheck again and learn more about how the business actually works this time around. I'll be back to working for myself again eventually.

Care to tell us about your background? Did you start from zero like frenchcorp or did you have a CS background?

[Kitsune]

Well, this is an interesting coincidence. Started learning Python just last night. Will go through your recommended reading lists.

How long would any of you guys say it'd take before I could make simple programs for single purposes? As an example, I want to be able to upload product data from an excel product list into one of my ecommerce stores.

Obviously this isn't 'getting a job' doing it, but I figure if I can get these little things done it saves me having to hire someone in the future.

[frenchcorporation]

(03-24-2014 05:29 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Well, this is an interesting coincidence. Started learning Python just last night. Will go through your recommended reading lists.

How long would any of you guys say it'd take before I could make simple programs for single purposes? As an example, I want to be able to upload product data from an excel product list into one of my ecommerce stores.

Obviously this isn't 'getting a job' doing it, but I figure if I can get these little things done it saves me having to hire someone in the future.

if you have shell/command line access to the database , you could do it in python fairly quickly,
using a python package called xlrd



example scripts are here https://github.com/python-excel/xlrd

and the official tutorial is in this pdf http://www.simplistix.co.uk/presentation...-excel.pdf , you'll want just the xlrd section, though you should have a quick look at the others

I've done the tutorial in full, and used the package at work to update live databases (transferred the python file to the server first)

edit: depending on the database & web framework your site uses, you'd need another python package to interact with the databse

[invictusiii]

(03-24-2014 12:47 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 09:27 PM)invictusiii Wrote:  

Just landed my first remote development job working with PHP and Javascript. I'm kind of bummed that I didn't really make it as a freelancer but happy I'm able to earn a steady paycheck again and learn more about how the business actually works this time around. I'll be back to working for myself again eventually.

Care to tell us about your background? Did you start from zero like frenchcorp or did you have a CS background?

I'm entirely self taught. No CS degree at all. I've been programming since I was in highschool though. My first development job was a normal cubicle job back in 2003. I got bored and joined the Air Force a year later for something totally unrelated. I still messed with code here and there the 9 years I was in.

Once I got out, I decided I wanted to get back into coding but since I really didn't have the experience to put on my resume I would try my hand at freelancing.

I started reading up on the newer features and best practices of PHP then started a blog with tutorials of things I would learn. This helped to solidify concepts in my brain and at the same time give some credibility to my name.

I got a call from a recruiter about a month ago telling me that a company I had applied for almost a year ago was hiring again and wanted to know if I was still interested. After a few conversations by phone they arranged for me to complete a code test. Basically I had to create a shopping list app. They were impressed enough to fly me to Chicago for a day and interview me. I heard back a few days later with a job offer.

Basically I attribute my success to keeping up with the learning and by putting my name out there as someone that knows what he's doing. There is still a lot that I need to learn but I'm treating this new job as an opportunity to soak up as much as possible so I can eventually work for myself again.

[berserk]

How important/difficult is OOP? I've tried learning some PHP through CodeAcademy and the only thing which strains my brain is understanding methods, properties and such. Not quite easy to grasp fully. Is it just a question of repetition?

[invictusiii]

(03-25-2014 01:10 AM)berserk Wrote:  

How important/difficult is OOP? I've tried learning some PHP through CodeAcademy and the only thing which strains my brain is understanding methods, properties and such. Not quite easy to grasp fully. Is it just a question of repetition?

OOP is huge now. I know it may be hard to grasp at first but once it clicks, you'll be grateful for it.

OOP is essential for making your code more modular and reusable. When you're coding day in and day out you want to avoid reinventing the wheel as much as possible. You want to be able to use complex code from one project in other projects if need be.

Another thing OOP helps with is maintainability of code. Months or even years down the line you might need to change or add features to a project. If you coded things so that your code was modular you can make modifications to only those portions of the project that need it without breaking the rest of your code.

I know this is a little bit abstract but I hope that makes sense. Definitely stick with learning OOP.

[berserk]

(03-25-2014 11:31 AM)invictusiii Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:10 AM)berserk Wrote:  

How important/difficult is OOP? I've tried learning some PHP through CodeAcademy and the only thing which strains my brain is understanding methods, properties and such. Not quite easy to grasp fully. Is it just a question of repetition?

OOP is huge now. I know it may be hard to grasp at first but once it clicks, you'll be grateful for it.

OOP is essential for making your code more modular and reusable. When you're coding day in and day out you want to avoid reinventing the wheel as much as possible. You want to be able to use complex code from one project in other projects if need be.

Another thing OOP helps with is maintainability of code. Months or even years down the line you might need to change or add features to a project. If you coded things so that your code was modular you can make modifications to only those portions of the project that need it without breaking the rest of your code.

I know this is a little bit abstract but I hope that makes sense. Definitely stick with learning OOP.

Ok, I suppose this is an area where you might have to spend more energy than the quick teaching in CodeAcademy to get it down. I still feel that it would hinder actually putting coding to use quickly, because I doubt that I could easily start building simple scripts with objects to solve simple problems right away? Do you know of a good resource that explains OOP with examples?

Another question is if Ruby is the better 5-10 year play for learning than PHP or Python? I have no doubt Python could land a job or freelance quicker, but what if I eventually want to do a SaaS? Wouldnt it be overkill to learn two languages?

I know that's a lot of questions in one sitting, but thanks for answering.

[invictusiii]

(03-25-2014 04:08 PM)berserk Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 11:31 AM)invictusiii Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:10 AM)berserk Wrote:  

How important/difficult is OOP? I've tried learning some PHP through CodeAcademy and the only thing which strains my brain is understanding methods, properties and such. Not quite easy to grasp fully. Is it just a question of repetition?

OOP is huge now. I know it may be hard to grasp at first but once it clicks, you'll be grateful for it.

OOP is essential for making your code more modular and reusable. When you're coding day in and day out you want to avoid reinventing the wheel as much as possible. You want to be able to use complex code from one project in other projects if need be.

Another thing OOP helps with is maintainability of code. Months or even years down the line you might need to change or add features to a project. If you coded things so that your code was modular you can make modifications to only those portions of the project that need it without breaking the rest of your code.

I know this is a little bit abstract but I hope that makes sense. Definitely stick with learning OOP.

Ok, I suppose this is an area where you might have to spend more energy than the quick teaching in CodeAcademy to get it down. I still feel that it would hinder actually putting coding to use quickly, because I doubt that I could easily start building simple scripts with objects to solve simple problems right away? Do you know of a good resource that explains OOP with examples?

Another question is if Ruby is the better 5-10 year play for learning than PHP or Python? I have no doubt Python could land a job or freelance quicker, but what if I eventually want to do a SaaS? Wouldnt it be overkill to learn two languages?

I know that's a lot of questions in one sitting, but thanks for answering.

The fastest way I've been learning things lately is through video tutorials and just practicing making dummy/side projects. If you don't mind paying a little google tuts+. They have some free lessons as well. If you're familiar with bittorrent you can find various courses the shady route as well. Also for great all around PHP lessons check out laracasts.com. It's not free and it centers around a single popular framework (Laravel) but there is a lot of good modern PHP knowledge dropped there.

[invictusiii]

Also you can solve very basic problems without OOP but OOP was actually created to help you solve problems more efficiently. You will actually run into limitations with procedural programming compared to OOP. Once you start thinking of your code base as different "objects", planning larger projects becomes much easier.

As far as learning Ruby vs PHP or Python, I really don't think one has too much of an advantage over the other. People knock PHP because it has a reputation as a language for amateurs but it's been around for years and has gotten much better. There are still plenty of sites powered by it and there is still demand for PHP developers. Facebook runs on PHP and has even taken to adding its own functionality to it and contributing some of those changes to the main PHP project. I say as long as large companies like Facebook are putting their weight behind it PHP is here to stay for at least a little while.

My advice is to learn one of the languages very well then slowly start learning one of the others. You'll increase your overall value as a developer and be able to adapt if indeed one language becomes worthless down the line.

[Chillen0707]

I have had a lot of fun with project Euler, spend most of my practice time working on those problems. What do you guys think of the site? Anyone else solve any of these things? Willing to share code/ideas.

[berserk]

Question: I am going to learn jQuery/Javascript next I think, because it has a quicker application for my current sites, but should I learn Javascript first or go straight to jQuery? There is conflicting advice here. Most seem to say learn Javascript first because it is the foundation, but others who definitely seem knowledgeable say it isn't necessary for practical purposes anymore than learning C to learn PHP.

What do you think?

[frenchcorporation]

(03-25-2014 04:08 PM)berserk Wrote:  

Ok, I suppose this is an area where you might have to spend more energy than the quick teaching in CodeAcademy to get it down. I still feel that it would hinder actually putting coding to use quickly, because I doubt that I could easily start building simple scripts with objects to solve simple problems right away? Do you know of a good resource that explains OOP with examples?

Another question is if Ruby is the better 5-10 year play for learning than PHP or Python? I have no doubt Python could land a job or freelance quicker, but what if I eventually want to do a SaaS? Wouldnt it be overkill to learn two languages?

I know that's a lot of questions in one sitting, but thanks for answering.

code academy has lessons on functions (lessons 7,8,12 &13 in particular but more function examples sprinkled throughout), and lessons on classes (lessons 19 & 20)
the lessons are listed on the page linked below
http://www.codecademy.com/tracks/python

going through learn pythonthehardway will give you the skills to write some simple scripts even before you finish doing all the lessons

heres another starter tutorial on classes, which is a major part of object oriented programming
http://code.tutsplus.com/articles/python...-net-21476

(03-25-2014 10:18 PM)Chillen0707 Wrote:  

I have had a lot of fun with project Euler, spend most of my practice time working on those problems. What do you guys think of the site? Anyone else solve any of these things? Willing to share code/ideas.

I've done the first 6 or 7 euler problems in python, I can post up the solutions if you want

for now ive switched to this site https://www.interviewcake.com/, the problems on this site are more like questions you'd have to solve in an interview

[berserk]

Thanks, I don't have a problem with functions as such, but the classes are a bit confusing.

[The Great Basilisk]

(03-25-2014 11:57 PM)berserk Wrote:  

Question: I am going to learn jQuery/Javascript next I think, because it has a quicker application for my current sites, but should I learn Javascript first or go straight to jQuery? There is conflicting advice here. Most seem to say learn Javascript first because it is the foundation, but others who definitely seem knowledgeable say it isn't necessary for practical purposes anymore than learning C to learn PHP.

What do you think?

I'd say jump straight into jquery. Jquery is very easy to understand and there are shitloads of examples everywhere. By learning jquery you are also learning javascript on the side. Jquery is just a javascript library, keep that in mind. When you are comfortable with the syntax and how everything works, it's not a huge leap over to pure javascript; you just keep the documentations at hand and see how the methods work.

I'm probably going to learn angularJS or backbone next. They seem to be very popular atm.

[invictusiii]

(03-26-2014 09:45 AM)The Great Basilisk Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 11:57 PM)berserk Wrote:  

Question: I am going to learn jQuery/Javascript next I think, because it has a quicker application for my current sites, but should I learn Javascript first or go straight to jQuery? There is conflicting advice here. Most seem to say learn Javascript first because it is the foundation, but others who definitely seem knowledgeable say it isn't necessary for practical purposes anymore than learning C to learn PHP.

What do you think?

I'd say jump straight into jquery. Jquery is very easy to understand and there are shitloads of examples everywhere. By learning jquery you are also learning javascript on the side. Jquery is just a javascript library, keep that in mind. When you are comfortable with the syntax and how everything works, it's not a huge leap over to pure javascript; you just keep the documentations at hand and see how the methods work.

I'm probably going to learn angularJS or backbone next. They seem to be very popular atm.

I agree. You will be forced to learn most of the basics of Javascript by learning JQuery. Keep in mind though that JQuery is huge library and can cost your application speed if you use it where it really isn't needed. There are a few instances where pure Javascript is a better solution. I would start out with JQuery but whenever possible try and figure out what is going on behind the scenes so you can understand how you might do the same thing in pure Javascript.

[berserk]

Ok, I have decided to learn Python first and some jQuery on the side. It's very nice and clean compared to PHP so far.

[TravellerJay]

I read the guy´s post (http://peteh.me/posts/from-zero-to-summe...ne-months/) and he has some nice real tips. I think that his help and our Frenchcorporation original detailed post have the real intel to get a job within 9 to 12 months from start. I think we should all follow this helpguide because programming is where the money is.
Since I have PM experience I will add programming: in the future I see myself as developer/digital PM so i can combine PM rates and coder rates.

[TravellerJay]

I am using Head First Programming and Head First Python series. The books combine heavily visual aids, I am a super visual guy and have lots of trouble reading awful boring dull books. So far the visual help has been effective. Working on the programming book first, uses Python as reference. Then I will use the 2nd book, Python exclusively. Then I will follow FC recommendation about Django and probably the other guy s Django and Rails online tutorials (http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ruby-on-ra...orial-book) and (http://www.tangowithdjango.com/book/)
Then I will start LPTHW book, 3rd edition and try solving problems and luckily by end of this year I should have a pretty good solid background. I am aiming for a Jr Developer job

[TravellerJay]

Also got the PMP preparation from Head First Oreilly series. my company will pay my exam this coming July. I heard great things of this Head first book, combined with PMBOK or Rita s book I should pass. Having a PMP industry certification helps a lot to have a better paid job.
If someone wants them, let me know by PM

thanks