[Beyond Borders]

(07-02-2013 02:54 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

What would have happened to the guy in the video if he had shot a police dog? Let's start shooting their dogs and see how they fucking feel.

We already know the answer to that question.

They call it assault of a police officer and resisting arrest if you fight back against a K-9 biting you, so I imagine if you killed one they'd try to get you for killing a cop. Though more likely they'd take you down in a rain of bullets.

[A War You Cannot Win]

You're all blaming the symptoms when really you should be looking to cure the disease. Cops can get away with these perceived 'injustices' because we've fostered a society where most would gladly trade liberty for security.

As for people abusing their power, as it's been said for thousands of years: the strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they most. It's a fundamental truth of human nature. Nothing new here.

[Beyond Borders]

I'm not quite sure I understand the point of your post, to be honest.

(07-02-2013 03:21 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You're all blaming the symptoms when really you should be looking to cure the disease. Cops can get away with these perceived 'injustices' because we've fostered a society where most would gladly trade liberty for security.

And dissent begins with people noticing these things and bitching about them, in my opinion. People typically don't get fed up enough to change things until the symptoms make them angry.

Your post seems to come from a tone of insinuating people shouldn't bitch because they've traded liberty for security. But if they don't start feeling the discomfort of that decision, there will never be a reason to demand change.

The bitching about symptoms is a healthy part of the process.

(07-02-2013 03:21 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

As for people abusing their power, as it's been said for thousands of years: the strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they most. It's a fundamental truth of human nature. Nothing new here.

So people should just accept stuff like this because it's supposedly human nature?

One of the main functions of a civilized society is to protect the weak from the strong. In fact, it's the police specifically who are supposed to serve that role.

This flicking it off the shoulder and just saying it's the way it always has been and the way it always will be surely doesn't help anything.

It also ignores that these conditions do not exist everywhere in the world. Yes, it does exist in many places but not everywhere and not everywhere to this extent. Among developed countries, America is especially becoming well-known for it.

[Architekt]

(07-02-2013 03:21 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You're all blaming the symptoms when really you should be looking to cure the disease. Cops can get away with these perceived 'injustices' because we've fostered a society where most would gladly trade liberty for security.

As for people abusing their power, as it's been said for thousands of years: the strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they most. It's a fundamental truth of human nature. Nothing new here.

These people aren't strong. Take away their guns and your average feminist could beat them up. It's false power. At what point in my life did I ask for pigs with guns to walk around and "protect" me? They've never done anything helpful for anyone I know. I'd like to see a world where police never existed. In my opinion, society would have been much better off.

[A War You Cannot Win]

It's one thing to recognize and bitch about stuff like this on the Internet, and it's a distinctly different animal to do something about it. Guess which one is more common? I don't care about the guy, his dog, or the cops in the video. In today's world of control and security dissent is a non-issue. We're too addicted to our Internet, our porn, out video games, out Starbucks milkshakes to rebel against an entity a lot of us feel is inherently corrupt. Instead of hoping for another French Revolution I'm just going to keep a low profile and get out of dodge as soon as possible. Fuck everyone else.

Yes, no one is changing human nature. The strong never protected the weak. The strong and clever always preyed on the weak. Trust me, they definitely got me with that fable too. I still laugh about my misguided idealism.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-02-2013 03:36 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

It's one thing to recognize and bitch about stuff like this on the Internet, and it's a distinctly different animal to do something about it. Guess which one is more common?

I see this so often spouted but it's simply not true that venting and discussing injustice online is useless.

Bitching about stuff on the web is leading to social change all over the world - from forcing cops to see the consequences of their actions in cases like this to bringing people out in the streets where they overthrow governments. It all starts somewhere and snowballs and adds up.

I understand your cynicism but I'm afraid it may be as misguided as your idealism was. The internet is dramatically changing the world and how we do things.

Quote:

Instead of hoping for another French Revolution I'm just going to keep a low profile and get out of dodge as soon as possible. Fuck everyone else.

And you certainly have that right, in my opinion, but I don't see how that obliges you to insinuating everyone else should just take it all in stride.

[Samseau]

(07-02-2013 03:40 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:36 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

It's one thing to recognize and bitch about stuff like this on the Internet, and it's a distinctly different animal to do something about it. Guess which one is more common?

I see this so often spouted but it's simply not true that venting and discussing injustice online is useless.

Bitching about stuff on the web is leading to social change all over the world - from forcing cops to see the consequences of their actions in cases like this to bringing people out in the streets where they overthrow governments. It all starts somewhere and snowballs and adds up.

I understand your cynicism but I'm afraid it may be as misguided as your idealism was. The internet is dramatically changing the world and how we do things.

Really? What political developments have come from the internet?

I think the Muslims used the internet to take down a bunch of governments in the Middle East. That's the extent so far.

[A War You Cannot Win]

(07-02-2013 03:32 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:21 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You're all blaming the symptoms when really you should be looking to cure the disease. Cops can get away with these perceived 'injustices' because we've fostered a society where most would gladly trade liberty for security.

As for people abusing their power, as it's been said for thousands of years: the strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they most. It's a fundamental truth of human nature. Nothing new here.

These people aren't strong. Take away their guns and your average feminist could beat them up. It's false power. At what point in my life did I ask for pigs with guns to walk around and "protect" me? They've never done anything helpful for anyone I know. I'd like to see a world where police never existed. In my opinion, society would have been much better off.

Let's be real here. Your average cop is going to massacre your average feminist on every playing field you can envision. Except in the realm of being able to endure taking dicks in the ass.

A world with no law enforcement? YouTube some Hurricane Katrina looting videos. There's a microcosmic rendition of a world without law enforcement. Looks like it'll be short, miserable, and dying suddenly, painfully, and violently wouldn't be out of the ordinary. No sweat though, I've grown to expect and accept that outcome these last few years. Have you?

[Beyond Borders]

(07-02-2013 03:43 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:40 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:36 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

It's one thing to recognize and bitch about stuff like this on the Internet, and it's a distinctly different animal to do something about it. Guess which one is more common?

I see this so often spouted but it's simply not true that venting and discussing injustice online is useless.

Bitching about stuff on the web is leading to social change all over the world - from forcing cops to see the consequences of their actions in cases like this to bringing people out in the streets where they overthrow governments. It all starts somewhere and snowballs and adds up.

I understand your cynicism but I'm afraid it may be as misguided as your idealism was. The internet is dramatically changing the world and how we do things.

Really? What political developments have come from the internet?

I think the Muslims used the internet to take down a bunch of governments in the Middle East. That's the extent so far.

LOL Yeah, those trends aren't significant political developments at all...

[A War You Cannot Win]

(07-02-2013 03:43 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:40 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:36 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

It's one thing to recognize and bitch about stuff like this on the Internet, and it's a distinctly different animal to do something about it. Guess which one is more common?

I see this so often spouted but it's simply not true that venting and discussing injustice online is useless.

Bitching about stuff on the web is leading to social change all over the world - from forcing cops to see the consequences of their actions in cases like this to bringing people out in the streets where they overthrow governments. It all starts somewhere and snowballs and adds up.

I understand your cynicism but I'm afraid it may be as misguided as your idealism was. The internet is dramatically changing the world and how we do things.

Really? What political developments have come from the internet?

I think the Muslims used the internet to take down a bunch of governments in the Middle East. That's the extent so far.

You forget about fat acceptance and cisgender castigation. Such great changes.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-02-2013 03:46 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You forget about fat acceptance and cisgender castigation. Such great changes.

And the manosphere itself.

Anyhow, I don't see what any of these have to do with alleviating government oppression.

[A War You Cannot Win]

(07-02-2013 03:48 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:46 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You forget about fat acceptance and cisgender castigation. Such great changes.

And the manosphere itself.

Anyhow, I don't see what any of these have to do with combatting government oppression.

At this point I would think the best way to combat government oppression would be to save up and immigrate to greener pastures, no? Sure you can bring attentions to these issues in the media but the government has been playing this game far longer than you have. Every revolution needs a violent, action component to instigate the desired change. It's been demonstrated that a few unwashed, poorly educated and superstitious butt fucks can derail a massive government entity by hiding out in the hills and making improvised explosive devices with materials that would make MacGuyver envious, but how many of us are actually willing to do that?

[Beyond Borders]

(07-02-2013 03:52 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:48 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:46 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

You forget about fat acceptance and cisgender castigation. Such great changes.

And the manosphere itself.

Anyhow, I don't see what any of these have to do with combatting government oppression.

At this point I would think the best way to combat government oppression would be to save up and immigrate to greener pastures, no? Sure you can bring attentions to these issues in the media but the government has been playing this game far longer than you have. Every revolution needs a violent, action component to instigate the desired change. It's been demonstrated that a few unwashed, poorly educated and superstitious butt fucks can derail a massive government entity by hiding out in the hills and making improvised explosive devices with materials that would make MacGuyver envious, but how many of us are actually willing to do that?

I already have immigrated, though I'd hardly expect an entire society to do the same as a way to protest their government.

Look, my point is that while I get your cynicism, I don't see how discouraging people when they express discontent helps anything. You seem like a realist, so surely you can see how such an approach to life becomes a sell-fulfilling prophecy, no?

At any rate, there are people doing exactly what you suggested and many more ready to do the same should it come down to it. Many even share (and spread) their ideas online (the smart ones implementing a few tricks as to be untraceable). But that's another issue entirely.

[Architekt]

(07-02-2013 03:44 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

A world with no law enforcement? YouTube some Hurricane Katrina looting videos. There's a microcosmic rendition of a world without law enforcement. Looks like it'll be short, miserable, and dying suddenly, painfully, and violently wouldn't be out of the ordinary. No sweat though, I've grown to expect and accept that outcome these last few years. Have you?

A world without law enforcement.... I'm not sure if you realise this, but humans existed for 100s of 1000s of years before law enforcement was even a concept. Society is very good at sorting out their own problems. There would be absolute fucking chaos for a number of years, then we'd reach an equilibrium. The population would be greatly culled, but those who are left are likely to be the alpha males and the attractive women. Doesn't sound too bad to me at all.

I fully expect to die painfully, slowly, and young. I'm quite prepared to accept that situation.

As for acting out against the police, there wouldn't be much I could do from behind bars after trying to physically enforce these ideals. Social enlightenment (via mediums such as the internet) is a method where there are no victims, and law enforcement is powerless to stop anyone (the same way we're powerless to stop them arresting us without severe consequences - even when we're completely innocent).

[Aliblahba]

I'm sure glad the manosphere is here to right the wrongs. Great internet warriors.

[A War You Cannot Win]

(07-02-2013 04:07 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

(07-02-2013 03:44 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

A world with no law enforcement? YouTube some Hurricane Katrina looting videos. There's a microcosmic rendition of a world without law enforcement. Looks like it'll be short, miserable, and dying suddenly, painfully, and violently wouldn't be out of the ordinary. No sweat though, I've grown to expect and accept that outcome these last few years. Have you?

A world without law enforcement.... I'm not sure if you realise this, but humans existed for 100s of 1000s of years before law enforcement was even a concept. Society is very good at sorting out their own problems. There would be absolute fucking chaos for a number of years, then we'd reach an equilibrium. The population would be greatly culled, but those who are left are likely to be the alpha males and the attractive women. Doesn't sound too bad to me at all.

I fully expect to die painfully, slowly, and young. I'm quite prepared to accept that situation.

As for acting out against the police, there wouldn't be much I could do from behind bars after trying to physically enforce these ideals. Social enlightenment (via mediums such as the internet) is a method where there are no victims, and law enforcement is powerless to stop anyone (the same way we're powerless to stop them arresting us without severe consequences - even when we're completely innocent).

I imagine before soldiering and law enforcement became the bee's knees your only security was that of your tribe. If you want to revert back to the laws of the jungle and tribal warfare while technology regresses and becomes lost in the sands of time while we're too busy bashing our skulls in with primitive weapons and gang raping the women of conquered tribes, I suppose that's your prerogative. I guarantee one of the first things that will happen when society forms up again will be the establishment of some sort of law enforcement agency. Then it's back to square one.

I already had my taste of that life and it sucks. As much as I hate the American government, humanity, and society it beats the battle rythmn of combat. Endless days of boredom compounded by random moments of soul freezing terror. Trust me, no one wants to go through with that shit.

[Architekt]

I can safely say that we don't need much of the technology we have at all. People seem to have this strange idea that we have this need to be "civilised." We're animals, not much more than chimps who can talk. We maintain our comfortable lifestyle because it's all we know, and most people couldn't handle a life without their iPhone, Instagram, and Facebook. As for the technology we actually need, such as food cultivating, shelter, etc, why would this disappear? There's no reason for people to suddenly go "well, we don't have electricity anymore, may as well abandon my house and go live in the jungle." Again, we were around for a long time before things like electricity and petrol power, and we came up with alternative technology to get us through, relying on our selves, rather than letting other people do everything for us. Humans are incredibly good at adapting to anything. We've survived everything that's been thrown at us so far - even since before the times of overprescribing drugs for every little minor inconvenience.

There is most certainly potential for a return to square one, you're right, I can only hope that when that happens, society learns their lesson from their mistakes, and do it properly the next time around - without the greed and corruption permeating every facet of our existence.

[canucktraveller]

Getting back on topic (not sure why every thread has to turn political)

Watch this video and see if your opinion changes

It appeared to be a hostage situation with the police attempting to control the area. Tee victim* (who has a history of interfering with officers) rolls up on the scene blaring music. He stops his car with the music still on and leaves with his dog (a breed of dog that is often used for security) He starts yelling at the officers and starts yelling at the officers.

When he is detained for disorderly conduct or obstruction of justice (not for filming cops) his dog jumps out of the car.


Should the cops have handled it differently? Probably. Do I blame them for shooting a 100+ lb dog that jumps at them ? No. The guy put himself in the situation and his dog paid the price.

[el mechanico]

This dude is a complete dumbass and deserves everything that happened to him and his dog. He knew his dog would jump out of the window. My dog would jump out of the window and he's a Lab. Would I play games waiting for a rotty to attack me if I had a gun on me? No.

[Blaster]

Quote:

Again, we were around for a long time before things like electricity and petrol power, and we came up with alternative technology to get us through, relying on our selves, rather than letting other people do everything for us. Humans are incredibly good at adapting to anything. We've survived everything that's been thrown at us so far - even since before the times of overprescribing drugs for every little minor inconvenience.

The human species has been good at adapting. You personally would probably have died of malnutrition or from an easily preventable disease before you reached puberty. Assuming your mother and father were alive to begin with, of course.

Quote:

There is most certainly potential for a return to square one, you're right, I can only hope that when that happens, society learns their lesson from their mistakes, and do it properly the next time around - without the greed and corruption permeating every facet of our existence.

But greed and corruption haven't permeated every facet of our existence. There are plenty of places in the US where the police mostly perform their duties honorably and are valued and respected members of their community.

Greed an corruption will always be there. Human nature may always undermine a strict code of ethics. But it's like buildup of dirt and grime (on your car, in your bathroom, whatever-- any place your care about). You have to practice good hygiene and clean out the rotten shit every so often.

No, the US isn't suddenly going to turn into a jungle. But there's a long way to fall. When was the last time you had to bribe a police officer or government clerk in the US simply to be treated fairly?

[Architekt]

(07-02-2013 09:21 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

No, the US isn't suddenly going to turn into a jungle. But there's a long way to fall. When was the last time you had to bribe a police officer or government clerk in the US simply to be treated fairly?

You try bribe someone in the west today, and you'll usually get thrown even deeper into the shit hole. The point is, I shouldn't have to do shit for anyone to be treated fairly. I treat those around me with the same respect they show me. I think this is a lot fairer than saying "I have a gun, you shut the fuck up and listen to what I have to tell you." Someone wants to throw a punch at me? That's fine, I'll throw one right back. I get beaten up? That's my problem, not that of some random person that some other random person has gone to and said "hey, you have the right to throw people in jail." What if I started throwing officers into my own jail, claiming that they were behaving in a way that I didn't find acceptable? If I tried that I'd get my fucking ass handed to me, after being filled with bullets. What is fair is very much a personal perception.

By the way, our affinity for vaccinations has actually forced the evolution of virus'. The easier to deal with strains of virus' are replaced very quickly by more resistant strains ( I suspect it's because there's no competing within the host for resources after the originals have been killed out). It's an interesting catch 22, but again, we're very good at adapting. Some people are even immune to HIV. Immunity is also passed on through to babies while they're nursing, both in the womb and out. Our population would definitely dwindle immensely, but we'd be left with the true "alphas" to start the process over again.

[WesternCancer]

Architekt you're confusing vaccinations with antibiotics.

Vaccinations are the best health thing to happen to humans since clean water and sanitation practices. Smallpox which used to kill millions in outbreaks is entirely gone save for a few controlled laboratory samples. Provided enough funding other diseases like polio or measles/mumps/rubella would be eradicated as well. There is no way a vaccine can cause immunity or cause mutation at a higher than natural rate.

There are New flu viruses most years because pigs, birds and humans can all get it. The virus has many interhangeable parts that mixes in the host causing new strains.

People are living longer with HIV because it is becoming more well adapted to its human host. A successful virus is one that can replicate a ton without killing the host. I had a Virology prof once say in 50 years HIV will be similar to herpes. Most people will have it, but only rarely will we have flareups and get aids associated diseases.

Antibiotics however are what (when used improperly like in most casss) promotes resistance and the creation of new resistant strains of bacteria.

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-02-2013 03:43 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Really? What political developments have come from the internet?

I think the Muslims used the internet to take down a bunch of governments in the Middle East. That's the extent so far.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-5...ulls-bill/

This bill was pulled because of efforts by many using the internet. That was just off the top of my head.

I wonder what will happen with all the stuff Snowden is releasing. All that information is available to the masses because of the internet.

[Architekt]

Oops, yes, you're right, I meant antibiotics. Having a difficult time concentrating on anything today.

Quote:

People are living longer with HIV because it is becoming more well adapted to its human host. A successful virus is one that can replicate a ton without killing the host. I had a Virology prof once say in 50 years HIV will be similar to herpes. Most people will have it, but only rarely will we have flareups and get aids associated diseases.

This reminded me of a game a friend showed me on his phone not long ago. The goal was to infect and kill the entire planet with a disease/virus/bioweapon/whatever before the cure was found and distributed. You could evolve the "plague" to do different things, for the purposes of spreading/killing etc, giving it different symptoms that have an effect on both of those things. Interesting game, actually. It was called "plague".

[clever alias]

^
pandemic