[Nomad77]

I know you guys love to bust on the Indian trolls on here but here is an Indian pickup artist. What do you guys think about what he has to say?

[Matt3B]

PUA Lingo? Check.
Stupid peacocking costume? Check
Acting as if he's chucking out brand new info? Check
Nothing new? Check

[Nomad77]

Does that mean that the information he is presenting is not valid or has no value? And is there anything that is ever really new? In my experience, NEW is just another word for Undiscovered by that individual.

[Matt3B]

Well, it does. Of course it does, but he's just rehashing what is already in the community.

I had a quick look on his channel and it's just him sitting down and talking about what to do and how to do it, with no actual evidence of him doing anything to justify his teachings.

[Nomad77]

Ok, but let's take this one particular video. He makes a very clear and logical statement that I am willing to bet a lot of guys on here may have never considered: if you can't make out with a girl within 10 mins of meeting her it's unlikely you will be having sex with her that night. I happen to agree with this statement but I've just never thought about it in that way.

I have personal read a ton of the PUA material out there and they are ALL for the most part variations of the same material. The same things being said or explained in different ways. I don't personally think this is a bad thing because everyone relates to how information is presented or explained differently. Two people can read the same book and one can understand the subject matter easily and the other not at all. So I think it's a good thing that these variations exist. I don't have to see videos of him picking up women. I can tell he certainly would be good enough. Once you have enough experience you can tell when are guy is experienced dealing with women.

[Matt3B]

I agree with the "you have to be sexual right away" as it's something I do in most of my approaches anyway. I think a lot of guys that go direct do this from the off and make their intentions clear, I don't really know any other way.

Can you get a girl home the same night without being sexual in the first 10 minutes? Absolutely. Is it harder though? Absolutely.

It will help your chances if you are sexual from the start, but I understand that as the most basic game principle so it's really nothing new to me which is perhaps why I'm not as quick to big the video up. Anything from light touching on her arm or lower back, giving her the "sex eyes" or verbally escalating is something I've been taught to do from the very beginning.

No doubt some people will find value in it, but for me he comes across as the type of "PUA" I'm not keen to learn from. You did ask for our opinions, after all.

[Nomad77]

You have also made another very valid and important point. The value of any piece of information is directly related to what we already know. So yes for some of us it may not have much value for others a lot more. What I find interesting, and it's why I keep reading this stuff, is that even when I know something and have learned it I can still forget it. And then I read or watch something and I go damn, I haven't been doing that lately. Many times I feel I have to keep relearning things I already know but somehow lose track of.

[gandt]

Quote:

if you can't make out with a girl within 10 mins of meeting her it's unlikely you will be having sex with her that night.

It is important to examine the context in which this is being said...

Who is this dudes audience? Is he giving advice to extreme newbies with weak ass game?

Then sure, you should try and PUSH PUSH PUSH the sexual envelope.

But for someone like me and many others on this forum who have devoted years to developing an interesting personality, great style, fitness, confidence, etc... Then this means absolutely nothing and is almost laughable.

Next, is he targeting drunk college bars where wasted white girls go? Or high class venues?

The answer is the former. Or at least, similar lower class bars/clubs since he would likely never be let in given his style and appearance.

For drunk college girls, this advice is sound as any. For quality upscale girls, again laughable advice. I grew tired of sloppy drunk make outs in university. I prefer to put together chick, who can handle her own, and is a freak in the sheets.

Similar to what ElMech said at one point - I stopped trying to make out with girls at clubs a long time ago.

[Caligula]

(05-20-2013 03:33 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Quote:

if you can't make out with a girl within 10 mins of meeting her it's unlikely you will be having sex with her that night.

It is important to examine the context in which this is being said...

Who is this dudes audience? Is he giving advice to extreme newbies with weak ass game?

Then sure, you should try and PUSH PUSH PUSH the sexual envelope.

I usually don't go for the makeout that fast because it can create resistance. In fact, thinking about my last 3-4 SNLs I don't think I made out with any of them before getting home. But that's just my style, there are many ways to do it.

[The Fantasist]

(05-20-2013 05:07 AM)Caligula Wrote:  

I usually don't go for the makeout that fast because it can create resistance. In fact, thinking about my last 3-4 SNLs I don't think I made out with any of them before getting home. But that's just my style, there are many ways to do it.

Exactly my policy too.

In fact I'll go further and say that I can't even remember making out with a girl within 10 minutes of meeting her for a long long time. It never really worked for me and put me into the seducer role too early ( having said that 90% of my game is solo day game ).

I prefer to slowly ratchet up the sexual tension before kissing her an hour or two or even three in and then saying let's go back to mine. That way I have conveyed some strong personality, got her trust, shown her what I'm about and forged a strong connection which means when I say let's go home they usually are happy to say yes, in fact they often suggest it before me.

I'm not saying going for the kiss straight out is wrong, if it works for you then that is awesome but what the PUA says is absolutely false. You do not have to go for the kiss straight away to get an SNL. And if you do and she is not comfortable kissing you that does not rule out the SNL either. I met a girl in Brighton a few months back, we insta-dated and I tried kissing her about 2 hours in and she wouldn't. I tried again after a few more drinks and she wouldn't. I was cool with that and when we went to the railway station for me to catch my train home she said 'you don't have to go home you know, I have a place'. So don't ever think because you did not get the kiss that automatically disqualifies you from the SNL. It doesn't.

Final point: Is this PUA in India or Stateside? If he is in India and saying he gets SNL and public kissing after ten minutes then he is a charlatan.

[gandt]

Here is my stance on physical escalation...

IMO this dude places WAY too much importance on it. Don't get me wrong, turning a girl on physically is a must do and I am physically dominant as hell with the women I interact with. But my physicality stems from organically reading the situation.

BUT

There is a point where you convey an undertone of neediness when you place such importance on escalation - as proclaimed in this video. This video plagues it's audience with a mindset of neediness right from the outset by making them become so invested in "making out with a girl" in order to keep their chances of a ONS.

I too remember when I first started out and felt such pressure to "escalate immediately" in concern of losing the girl. This mindset then seeps into your behaviour and women can pick up that you are so invested in the interaction.

Women are very sensual beings and I don't think the advice here should be taken at face value but examined on a case by case basis.

Just goes to show you some of the shit that is out there. But everyone has their individual style. If your style is the desperate thirsty type, then this advice is for you.

[Nomad77]

Culture plays a big part in SNL. This guy is in the US and he's talking about American girls.

It's not about the sexual escalation actually it's about identifying girls that are sexually attracted to you quickly. There are usually only 1 - 2 girls in a night that will meet all of the criterias for a SNL. You can't waste too much time on any one girl. You need to be able to go through and screen a lot of them. This is the most efficient and accurate screening test in my experience and opinion for American girls.

[Caligula]

(05-20-2013 05:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 05:07 AM)Caligula Wrote:  

I usually don't go for the makeout that fast because it can create resistance. In fact, thinking about my last 3-4 SNLs I don't think I made out with any of them before getting home. But that's just my style, there are many ways to do it.

Exactly my policy too.

In fact I'll go further and say that I can't even remember making out with a girl within 10 minutes of meeting her for a long long time. It never really worked for me and put me into the seducer role too early ( having said that 90% of my game is solo day game ).

I prefer to slowly ratchet up the sexual tension before kissing her an hour or two or even three in and then saying let's go back to mine. That way I have conveyed some strong personality, got her trust, shown her what I'm about and forged a strong connection which means when I say let's go home they usually are happy to say yes, in fact they often suggest it before me.

I'm not saying going for the kiss straight out is wrong, if it works for you then that is awesome but what the PUA says is absolutely false. You do not have to go for the kiss straight away to get an SNL. And if you do and she is not comfortable kissing you that does not rule out the SNL either. I met a girl in Brighton a few months back, we insta-dated and I tried kissing her about 2 hours in and she wouldn't. I tried again after a few more drinks and she wouldn't. I was cool with that and when we went to the railway station for me to catch my train home she said 'you don't have to go home you know, I have a place'. So don't ever think because you did not get the kiss that automatically disqualifies you from the SNL. It doesn't.

Final point: Is this PUA in India or Stateside? If he is in India and saying he gets SNL and public kissing after ten minutes then he is a charlatan.

Same policy. Also, taking a girl's first rejection of your kiss like a man is a strong move. She knows your intentions, you're not giving up but you're letting her know that you're not outcome fixated. You're aggressive and go for what you want but also accept it when she says no. You're a safe, cool guy to be around but you're not afraid and have an edge. That's what girls want. Same thing about inviting her back to your place. If she says no you smirk, shrug and keep pushing. One step back, two steps forward.

If your attraction game is strong your focus has to be comfort or you risk being dismissed as a player or being used for entertainment only to be rejected when push comes to shove.

Making out is a form of attention whoring for a lot of girls. Some girls see it as equivalent to giving out a number only to ignore/reject you. It's a low-risk ego boost. She proves that she's attractive but doesn't have to do anything "slutty" for it. It's also a low-risk ego boost for PUAs like the guy in the video because a makeout is much easier to get than dealing with the logistics and LMR of leaving the club with a girl and navigating her into bed.

If you're fishing at the bottom of the barrel you'll get a lot of public 10-minute makeouts. It works for girls on holiday or who are super DTF to the point where they've already chosen you and you just have to play fuckup avoidance game. But when you're with high value girls around their social circles the fast makeout is a bad strategy.

I've had at least one girl insisting we leave the club some time apart and meet around the corner before we go home to bang so she could be discreet about it. I think she even called her boyfriend an hour after coming to my place so he could come pick her up. For a girl like that a public makeout is unthinkable.

Building attraction becomes second nature if you're experienced. You build it within the first 10 minutes and then you build comfort and escalate alongside that for the next couple of hours. That way it's all systems go when it gets to sex.

It's all in Tuth's first date recipe: if you haven't made out with a girl she can tell herself that you're just making out at home. If you make out with her she knows there's more coming and her rational brain may try to shut it down.

[Nomad77]

For me, it depends on the girl and my read of her. I don't try to force anything in particular, it has to feel right but then again that can come only come from a lot of experience...

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2013 07:22 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

if you can't make out with a girl within 10 mins of meeting her it's unlikely you will be having sex with her that night. I happen to agree with this statement but I've just never thought about it in that way.

LOL

WIA

[zanetti]

i wonder if he's related to sunny leone

[bodmon]

when i was in oversaturated keyboard jockey mode, reading tons of material, there was this one pua, acclaimed as the "master of SNLs", who promoted the ideal of the 'smooth chatty ONS', which involves lots of classy, pristine verbal game, with in fact an emphasis away from purportedly heavy, sloppy, over the top physicality. many of the posters in this thread speak of it.

now it may be my city (toronto) or my lack of game, but in my experience, the ideal of the 'chatty ONS' has never really panned out in real life. it's all about physicality and dominance as a tool to screen and arouse. these can be calibrated to the girl, but they are a must at some early point, otherwise you're just wasting your time. so i'm gonna side with nomad7.

[Nomad77]

The is a guy that wrote a whole book (The System) on never touching the girl until she's in your apartment. His system was based on building sexual tension and creating a sense mystery. That can work with girls that actually have a brain - his main targets. Anything can work, it all comes down to the TYPE of girl you are targeting and what is more aligned with your personality. If you are targeting American girls in the (18 - 28) age range then these girls will usually respond more to direct, physical game than anything else. American girls are not great thinkers or into subtle stuff. If you are targeting European girls then you can be more indirect and mysterious.

For example, British girl in Miami (telling me):

In London, when a guy likes a girl and wants to take her home he just tells her get your coat. Now, you say it to me.
(It took me about minute to actually understand what she was telling me.)

[Spider]

In the few SNL's I've had, I haven't kissed the girl at the venue.

The farthest I've gone is putting my arm around the girl or holding her hand while we walk to the bar to grab a drink.

In my experience, the more I kiss on the girl/grope her while we are out, the more she realizes that eventually I am just going to try to get her home to have sex.

Some girls of course that'll work with, but I've found better success in building attraction and getting very close, but waiting to kiss until we're back at my place, or her place.

Mentioned earlier, at a loud college or frat party where everyone is belligerent, being aggressive and sticking your tongue down the girls throat is probably more effective.

At most other venues (ie. bars, clubs, low-key house parties), I think building anticipation and attraction will go farther in allowing the girl to become more comfortable with you, and ultimately trust that going home with you is a good idea.

[speakeasy]

[Brodiaga]

Golden Suit, wow. If you wear it to an Indian bar, can you get a SNL?

[Samseau]

Quote:

At most other venues (ie. bars, clubs, low-key house parties), I think building anticipation and attraction will go farther in allowing the girl to become more comfortable with you, and ultimately trust that going home with you is a good idea.

Yes. It's not the kiss that matters, it's MAKING HER WANT TO KISS YOU.

I've had plenty of SNL's that had zero overt sexual contact until I was in a bedroom. I've also had SNL's that were totally sexual from the get-go. Either way, it doesn't matter. You gotta learn the tempo and vibe of the girl you're gaming and just keep ramping her up towards sex. Sometimes she'll be horny ASAP, other times she'll be play more coy and hard to get.

Not to metion, some girls will fuck SNL but don't want to be seen making out with a dude she just met. There's tons of things to consider, so just going for the kiss blindly is often terrible advice.

Far better to play it safe and go for the kiss when she's really into you and just staring into your eyes while you're talking to her about bullshit (aka the comfort stage).

[Seduction Sutra]

His game is tailored to game Indian girls in India, so his within-10-minute-kiss SNL may not apply to you.

I cannot stand Indian accent, I had to close the video after 5 seconds. One mere mortal can only last so long.

[PoosyWrecker]

(05-21-2013 08:33 PM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

His game is tailored to game Indian girls in India, so his within-10-minute-kiss SNL may not apply to you.

I cannot stand Indian accent, I had to close the video after 5 seconds. One mere mortal can only last so long.

Where does he give India specific info?

Quote:

BL: What is your favorite place to work on a project?
ML: Unfortunately in my case I do not have the liberty to choose locations. I travel to every location where someone needs my help. Currently focused on major cities like LA, New York, San Francisco, Chicago and London.

http://brokelivin.com/magic-leone-on-bei...ing-coach/

[Samseau]

Sounded to me like his game was Tailored for NYC.