[Kabal]

Very interesting article.

Quote:

The data also showed that natural selection shifted from favoring shorter women with a high body mass index (BMI) to taller women with lower BMI. Since height and BMI are both highly heritable, these reversed selection pressures should eventually produce generations of taller and slimmer Gambian women, the authors said.

Monique Borgerhoff Mulder, an anthropologist from the University of California Davis, said the results are interesting but it is not clear why selection pressures on BMI and height took a U-turn. “Do fat, heavy women no longer enjoy a fertility advantage over their taller, thinner counterparts because of changed disease prevalence, changed diet, new mate choice criteria, or something else?” she asked. “We are left with rather a limited understanding [about] what contributes to the BMI and height findings.”

I'm not convinced that white Europeans are taller than white Americans, adjusted for demography (the taller Europeans tend to be Northern Europeans, and white Americans trace more of their heritage to the Atlantic, Germanic, and Mediterranean regions).

However, if white Europeans are indeed taller and slimmer than white Americans net of demography, what if this difference is due to the evolution that has occurred because of healthcare, a la the Gambia study? This is an inchoate, speculative hypothesis, of course.

I'm personally against government-provided "free" healthcare (moral hazards and privatized gains with socialized losses), but the prospect of slimmer American chicks a few decades down the line is certainly a compelling argument for it.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Hmm, but Canada and most of Europe are also struggling with obesity despite near-universal government provided access to healthcare.

[InternationPlayboy]

Holy shit, I thought that map had to be wrong about the US having over a 30% obesity rate, but it's true, it's 35%. Don't know how I didn't know that stat before. More than 1/3 of our country is fat. Jesus Christ, we're fat asses!

[Tuthmosis]

(05-06-2013 01:11 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(moral hazards and privatized gains with socialized losses)

So having thin, healthy, and--invariably--more attractive people only benefits the individuals who are thin, healthy, and attractive and not the society at-large?

[Kabal]

(05-06-2013 02:00 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(05-06-2013 01:11 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

(moral hazards and privatized gains with socialized losses)

So having thin, healthy, and--invariably--more attractive people only benefits the individuals who are thin, healthy, and attractive and not the society at-large?

No. The implication is precisely that--if demonstrated to be true, healthcare-driven evolution would be a public good in providing a greater population of slim chicks.

But that's not the case now, is it stands.

[Samseau]

That's because conditions were so bad in Gambia, the people were starving and suffering from all kinds of diseases that fucked them up.

But once they got access to health-care, they improved. However, these are just short term gains - as the women become spoiled and entitlted from a greater standard of living, they too will start to have fewer children which leads to less women for men, which leads to imbalanced ratios and the ability to be fat without consequence.

Here's another question:

Who is paying for this healthcare in Gambia? The UN? I.e. paid for from people who work for a living?

[eradicator]

(05-06-2013 01:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

That's because conditions were so bad in Gambia, the people were starving and suffering from all kinds of diseases that fucked them up.

But once they got access to health-care, they improved. However, these are just short term gains - as the women become spoiled and entitlted from a greater standard of living, they too will start to have fewer children which leads to less women for men, which leads to imbalanced ratios and the ability to be fat without consequence.

Here's another question:

Who is paying for this healthcare in Gambia? The UN? I.e. paid for from people who work for a living?

yes, I believe all of this because you are making too much sense.

For the USA and other fat nations, lack of basic nutrition- not enough enough food, and not enough good food- creates the obesity problem. People in the western world eat too much cheap fast food loaded with addictive additives, and corn syrup, not enough quality vegies and grains and so we have a nation full of fatties.

Also, people don't exercise enough. Health care shouldn't even be part of the conversation.

[sportbilly]

this thread is spooky...as all being well this weekend I am dating a Gambian student, who is in the UK, she is 6ft tall....and a student who models on the side...................fingers crossed no flaking!

Ps - Did not even know we had any / many Gambians in the UK !

[TheRookie]

(05-06-2013 01:11 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

However, if white Europeans are indeed taller and slimmer than white Americans net of demography, what if this difference is due to the evolution that has occurred because of healthcare, a la the Gambia study? This is an inchoate, speculative hypothesis, of course.

It seems like the level of healthcare needed to increase fertility of taller, slimmer women was very minimal. Americans are not exactly in slums with open sewers right now.

If Americans are shorter and fatter, it is probably more due to a terrible diet and doctors that prescribe them pills instead of telling them to eat right and exercise. Mainstream dietary advice in the US is terrible as well (load up on whole grains, avoid all fats and red meats).

[Katatonic]

Always remember that the accepted method of tracking obesity is the BMI. There isn't a professional bodybuilder who isn't considered morbidly obese according to BMI.