[ghostdog]

To spice this board up.. it could use a little oasis where people question things about the manosphere. Most of us are sane enough to handle this.
So what are some things you don't like about the manosphere or don't understand the appeal of? Disagreements? This could just be a matter of taste or something you find is not discussed logically.

-I don't understand the fascination with high heels. If I was a woman I wouldn't wear them. They look so damn painful. A woman's footwear is the last thing I care about. I don't like tall women, and really don't mind shorter curvier legs.

-Dressing feminine... again I don't care that much. There is a lot of middle ground between looking like a lumberjack and a scantily clad Hollywood starlet. I mostly care about what a woman looks like naked. Ideally she would dress casually in simple cardigans. Fashion is also very costly, so I'd think positively of a more down to earth girl. I'm also a guy who hates makeup and I've spent a lot of time practicing predicting what a woman will look like without it. Fashion can also deceive as external accentuation; a pig will look slightly prettier in a sundress, but this is a temporary and fragile essence.

-A lot of these Wall threads are misleading. A woman who fights the wall doesn't necessarily do this on genes alone, or just health habits. Hollywood females go to insane extremes to maintain their looks. and I believe that this is bad because regular women who look at these 40-45 actresses on the cover of lifestyle magazines start believing that they'll age just as gracefully, and then structure their lives to settle down at 40. the Wall threads also need zero makeup shots for fair comparisons.

-About game: once you stop being afraid of women most of your behavior towards them changes. This is the most important part of it to me, not practicing clever pickup lines that someone else thought up.

-Misogyny: In some (not all) corners of the manosphere men forget to look at things amorally and continue to see hypergamy as some sin. it should be tweaked for the purpose of healthy marriage and offspring, but there is a logic to it. Don't hate women because you see their mating strategies as less egalitarian. Also don't judge them for their lack of male qualities (logic, etc) because then you're sliding into feminism, which does the same thing and is more along the lines of a gender war attitude. Male intelligence comes back to attaining women. It's supposed to be a cooperative system.

-Sex is fun. That's a fact in our human realm. We don't just use it to procreate. We have sex and do lots of things just for the purpose of amusing ourselves to distract our minds from our mortality. So where do we draw the line? Should a woman only have sex with a man she sees herself having a family with?

[aphelion]

I agree with most of this, and I think most reasonable people do. I think the misogyny stuff can go a little overboard - remember, the reason that we're here and not on some MGTOW site is because we like women, not because we hate them. Although it's real easy to hate girls once in awhile, it's not the point.

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 01:28 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

I agree with most of this, and I think most reasonable people do. I think the misogyny stuff can go a little overboard - remember, the reason that we're here and not on some MGTOW site is because we like women, not because we hate them. Although it's real easy to hate girls once in awhile, it's not the point.

hating feminists is fair, hating women for being women isn't. It's just sometimes men in the manosphere get on an individualist tip, perhaps as a reaction to the belligerence of feminists, or out of frustration. Not regularly, but often enough to notice.

Even though women think emotionally, there is reason in that. the way they deduce math or politics may not be logical but them having emotions is logical because it tells them to place love above all other things. That is logical for their survival. A man has to have a piece of that too if he ultimately wants a wife and family.

[soup]

Wow an entire thread

Your first point about heels- high heels accentuate the length of a woman's legs and make her feet look smaller. This is more attractive.

Go somewhere else.

[BLarsen]

I've witnessed the phrase "red pill" originally mean that you realized women weren't little angels; it was used in the context of getting laid. Now, along with alpha and beta, it is being used to describe conservative/libertarian political points of view. I don't like this development.

[aphelion]

(04-26-2013 01:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Wow an entire thread

Your first point about heels- high heels accentuate the length of a woman's legs and make her feet look smaller. This is more attractive.

Go somewhere else.

If he doesn't care for high heels, well, that's fine. Maybe his notch count comes from the hippie flower girl crowd or something and that's his niche. I don't think he's trolling at all.

[aphelion]

(04-26-2013 01:53 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

I've witnessed the phrase "red pill" originally mean that you realized women weren't little angels; it was used in the context of getting laid. Now, along with alpha and beta, it is being used to describe conservative/libertarian political points of view. I don't like this development.

Oh yeah, this too. Fuck all that politics noise. If Heartiste didn't have such incisive game advice I'd never read Chateau at all.

[speakeasy]

- There's nothing emasculating about going down on a woman and enjoying seeing her have a great time in bed. It shouldn't only be about your own needs.

- The "wall" thing may be a bit exaggerated. I don't think the wall is necessarily at 30 for anyone that takes half-decent care of their self. I know plenty of women pushing 40 that are still sexy. Obviously not as great as they were at 23, but still attractive. Men have walls too. We get pot bellies that become harder to keep off with each year, male pattern balding, hair growing on the back, limp dick, etc. We all age, so be it.

- I can't stand feminism in its modern incarnation, but don't see myself as a misogynist. I enjoy the company of women so long as it's one on one. I can't be around a group of them chatting as I'm just not interested in the subjects women talk about when they gather.

- Rape, true rape, is one of the worst crimes you can commit after murder and pedophilia. I have no respect for men that are physically abusing toward women, unless it's in self-defense of course against a woman that attacks first.

- I think game is overrated, though some basic game knowledge(especially inner game) is indispensable. Most my successes and seemingly most the successes of my friends(even the ones that know game) seem to come from girls that were already attracted to them and they just played the "don't fuck it up and escalate" game. I can't say I've seen many personal examples of guys banging girls 3 points above them on the looks scale just because they told some DHV stories, did magic tricks and threw in some kino. Not that I'm saying it doesn't ever happen, I just think that's only makes a small percentage of the sex most men get. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not a big believer in "technical game", but I'm a strong believer in inner game.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-26-2013 01:14 PM)ghostdog Wrote:  

-I don't understand the fascination with high heels. If I was a woman I wouldn't wear them. They look so damn painful. A woman's footwear is the last thing I care about. I don't like tall women, and really don't mind shorter curvier legs.

I think the fascination is pretty straightforward:

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 01:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Wow an entire thread

Your first point about heels- high heels accentuate the length of a woman's legs and make her feet look smaller. This is more attractive.

Go somewhere else.

This "looks" more attractive. for as long as she has the shoes on. When she takes them off you see the real length of her legs and the real size of her feet. That's what I care to evaluate. her actual genetics.
The length of her legs isn't really as big a deal to me as the proportions, curviness, whether or not she has cankles.

Is that really so crazy? or troll-like?
Lets keep this peaceful.

[Quintus Flaminius]

(04-26-2013 01:28 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

I agree with most of this, and I think most reasonable people do. I think the misogyny stuff can go a little overboard - remember, the reason that we're here and not on some MGTOW site is because we like women, not because we hate them. Although it's real easy to hate girls once in awhile, it's not the point.

MGTOWs, true MGTOWs who just mind their own business knowing there's nothing in it for men to be married, I respect them, I don't see this as an effective strategy against the pricks that conjured up feminism, but it's still understandable.

But the self proclaimed MGTOWs, that just keep moaning about women, day fucking in and day fucking out, hate to say it, but it does sound as if they're obsessed, although there might be/might not be a reason for that.

I'm also against the Manosphere turning into a political movement, identity politics will NOT serve our best interests, believe me.

I say we just keep bitchslapping WKs and Manginas, that would be enough.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-26-2013 02:13 PM)ghostdog Wrote:  

This "looks" more attractive.

Now you understand the fascination.

It's pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

for as long as she has the shoes on.

I tell girls to keep the high heels on the whole time.

Problem solved.

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 02:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

- I can't stand feminism in its modern incarnation, but don't see myself as a misogynist. I enjoy the company of women so long as it's one on one. I can't be around a group of them chatting as I'm just not interested in the subjects women talk about when they gather.

I agree with this. actually enjoying time with women is essential if you want to get married one day. learning to talk to them on a human level is a great social skill, kind of like learning to get along with people who no interests in common with you. I have a few less attractive female friends I hang out with normally and platonically. Take the perspectives gathered from that and fuse it with game, a marriage could actually be very fun.

[Nudge]

To me its the whole hamster thing. We all have hamsters! Its the human minds natural reaction to try and justify our actions. Sure woman rationalize stuff more than men, but I dont think its that much more than what gets said on here time and time and time again.

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 02:05 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 01:14 PM)ghostdog Wrote:  

-I don't understand the fascination with high heels. If I was a woman I wouldn't wear them. They look so damn painful. A woman's footwear is the last thing I care about. I don't like tall women, and really don't mind shorter curvier legs.

I think the fascination is pretty straightforward:

those two women have slightly different legs, footwear aside.

It not something I ever pay attention to or care much about. sometimes you guys talk about it like it's a dealbreaker.

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 02:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I tell girls to keep the high heels on the whole time.

Problem solved.

lol.. you could also lose your boner if she takes her heels off to reveal some nasty bruised feet, cracked toenails.

fucking her with her shoes on is a little silly to me, if the rest of her is naked. That and I employ rough play, change positions. those heels would be a nuisance.

power to you though.

[DBCooper]

I dislike some of the things women do, I don't dislike women.

I think it's important to recognize the difference - my dislike of some of the things women do grants me perspective on how to interact with women and also allows me some scope for self-improvement, the know-how to eliminate behaviors of theirs that I see in myself ( as Nudge notes, we all have hamsters, just to varying degrees).

However, if you start actively disliking women then I think that can have a negative impact on your outer (and inner) game. The essence of game isn't about getting angry over some woman who thinks she can be a marine, or some coworker who talks shit about fashion and who is glued to her iPhone - it's more about knowing what makes them tick and how to use these little nuances to your advantage.

The miscellaneous section sometimes gets blown up with this sense of outrage about this feminist or that mangina somewhere in Denmark who has slated masculinity, and I see guys getting irate about it. They're not necessarily wrong to be, but they're wasting an awful lot of energy worrying about nothing, and if you want to think in factions then that's a 'victory' for feminism.

Anger is a choice, in a lot of cases anyway. I could have stood in front of that red-headed lass who was ranting rudely in the street about feminism with just a big, shit-eating grin on my face...that's the look of knowing. Knowing that she's talking shit, knowing that she knows it and knowing that all you have to do is stand their and keep chill whilst she makes a tit of herself.

TL;DR - Anger is bad for game, and just about most things in my opinion. There's no point in getting angry about feminism and all that when you can just take a back step, smile, and carry on gaming and pussy slaying knowing that most people on this earth just delude themselves.

[Samseau]

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

[DBCooper]

(04-26-2013 03:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

Evil is subjective.

It might be considered 'evil' in sense that women who are less inclined to settle down (for the love of fucking alphas) are also less likely to reproduce in a stable environment thus not ensuring an ordered future for our species...

Yet on the other hand, men with 'alpha' qualities such as ourselves are abiding by what nature intended us to do, and that's to fuck bitches and find another one...spread those genes.

Humans are basic. Our morality is context dependent - if an action brings about positive repercussions in the sense that it furthers our species (reproduction, kindness etc) then it is considered moral. However, actions that bring about destruction (murder etc) are considered immoral because they reduce our numbers (unless you're killing another tribe to protect your own, then it's moral).

Morality will never be intrinsic because it shifts with the times. In the context of game, I don't think it is an evil...we are just doing what at one point was necessary to continue our species.

Edit: this is an over simplified version of my true perspective on it, but I'm not down for typing an essay and I doubt anyone's down for reading it!

[ghostdog]

(04-26-2013 03:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

Game is more of a tool. You could use game to sustain a long healthy marriage if you wante. About the player lifestyle I've wondered the same thing as you.
I try not to "fuck and chuck" women who seem like actual good people, and have some potential to be good mothers (despite being young and naïve). There are a lot of good women remaining who are just sucked into the sadistic female feminist social world. Makes it very easy for them to cave into social pressure and go down the wrong path. With those women I tell myself that if I'm not going to pursue something long-term, I should back off. I don't want to "corrupt" somebody.

[Samseau]

(04-26-2013 03:50 PM)ghostdog Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

Game is more of a tool. You could use game to sustain a long healthy marriage if you wante. About the player lifestyle I've wondered the same thing as you.
I try not to "fuck and chuck" women who seem like actual good people, and have some potential to be good mothers (despite being young and naïve). There are a lot of good women remaining who are just sucked into the sadistic female feminist social world. Makes it very easy for them to cave into social pressure and go down the wrong path. With those women I tell myself that if I'm not going to pursue something long-term, I should back off. I don't want to "corrupt" somebody.

On the flip side, I've also seen the opposite:

Girls who like a guy but get ignored by said guy end up becoming just as bitter.

For example, I remember a girl in college I turned down and never had sex with because I did not think she was attractive enough to have a relationship with. She ended up becoming more hateful and bitter, at least towards me, no different than had I pump and dumped her.

So maybe it's, "Damned if you do bang her, damned if you don't bang her." In which case I should just fuck and chuck every girl I meet, since they're going to end up bitter and cynical no matter what I do, right?

I don't claim to know the answers, but it does keep me up at night.

[Samseau]

(04-26-2013 03:44 PM)DBCooper Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

Evil is subjective.

It might be considered 'evil' in sense that women who are less inclined to settle down (for the love of fucking alphas) are also less likely to reproduce in a stable environment thus not ensuring an ordered future for our species...

Yet on the other hand, men with 'alpha' qualities such as ourselves are abiding by what nature intended us to do, and that's to fuck bitches and find another one...spread those genes.

Humans are basic. Our morality is context dependent - if an action brings about positive repercussions in the sense that it furthers our species (reproduction, kindness etc) then it is considered moral. However, actions that bring about destruction (murder etc) are considered immoral because they reduce our numbers (unless you're killing another tribe to protect your own, then it's moral).

Morality will never be intrinsic because it shifts with the times. In the context of game, I don't think it is an evil...we are just doing what at one point was necessary to continue our species.

Edit: this is an over simplified version of my true perspective on it, but I'm not down for typing an essay and I doubt anyone's down for reading it!

Well, if you're going to define evil in terms of the health of our species (which I think is generally a very problematic definition, but I digress) then game truly seems to be an evil, as girls who get pump and dumped end up pining for the alpha male who got away and generally avoid stable betas they could have been good wives and had many offspring with.

[DBCooper]

(04-26-2013 04:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:44 PM)DBCooper Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Is game an evil?

We're fucking and chucking through tons of women which spoils them for other men and makes the women less likely to reproduce with stable betas because they will always dream of the days they spent with alphas.

Is there another path besides game?


^Question that keeps me up at night^

Evil is subjective.

It might be considered 'evil' in sense that women who are less inclined to settle down (for the love of fucking alphas) are also less likely to reproduce in a stable environment thus not ensuring an ordered future for our species...

Yet on the other hand, men with 'alpha' qualities such as ourselves are abiding by what nature intended us to do, and that's to fuck bitches and find another one...spread those genes.

Humans are basic. Our morality is context dependent - if an action brings about positive repercussions in the sense that it furthers our species (reproduction, kindness etc) then it is considered moral. However, actions that bring about destruction (murder etc) are considered immoral because they reduce our numbers (unless you're killing another tribe to protect your own, then it's moral).

Morality will never be intrinsic because it shifts with the times. In the context of game, I don't think it is an evil...we are just doing what at one point was necessary to continue our species.

Edit: this is an over simplified version of my true perspective on it, but I'm not down for typing an essay and I doubt anyone's down for reading it!

Well, if you're going to define evil in terms of the health of our species (which I think is generally a very problematic definition, but I digress) then game truly seems to be an evil, as girls who get pump and dumped end up pining for the alpha male who got away and generally avoid stable betas they could have been good wives and had many offspring with.

Ah, but wouldn't you agree that it is to some extent about quality (the alpha) and not quantity (the beta)? Women pine for alpha dick because we're/they're the guys with the genes to provide strong offsrping.

I'm genuinely interested to hear why you think it's problematic to define evil in terms of the health of our species, even if it is slightly off topic (sorry OP). I mean, isn't that what we're here for? To survive and reproduce? If that's the case (as it has been for millenia) then it would make sense to define evil as that which impedes human (arguably just yours and your tribe's) flourishing, be that spiritually or physically.

[Samseau]

(04-26-2013 04:14 PM)DBCooper Wrote:  

I'm genuinely interested to hear why you think it's problematic to define evil in terms of the health of our species, even if it is slightly off topic (sorry OP). I mean, isn't that what we're here for? To survive and reproduce? If that's the case (as it has been for millenia) then it would make sense to define evil as that which impedes human (arguably just yours and your tribe's) flourishing, be that spiritually or physically.

Easy counter-example thought experiment.

Let's say I killed off all of the world's men with a super-virus that affects everyone but me.

Then I replicate my sperm by the billions using technology and tell women if they want kids they must use my sperm to have children. I also go on a massive fuckfest.

All of the world's women have many children because there are no more men to take care of them. The world's population then explodes threefold in just one generation.

Am I a good man in this scenario?

[WestIndianArchie]

redacted