[Nonpareil]

I know, another topic about flaking, like we need one of these.

But lately, I've been seeing that flaking is most definitely getting worse. In my own experience (three girls have flaked on me in the last three weeks), on some of the blogs I read and in some of the posts I'm seeing here. Even Roosh, who has very solid game, mentioned somewhere that flaking was on the rise.

When I get flaked I don't acknowledge it and wait a few weeks and hit the girl up on a random weeknight a few weeks later, and erase her number if she doesn't come through. This is hardly a revolutionary approach, but even still, you're lucky if 1 in 4 girls who originally flaked will not re-flake.

This isn't a totally recent development either; up until about two years ago I got flaked so rarely (relatively speaking) that I didn't even know how to deal with it. Now it's at the point where when I get a girl's number I expect her to flake and make backup plans the night we're supposed to go out.

Game has gone mainstream, and girls know this. My theory is that the recent spike in flaking is the female response to this.

What can be done to adapt? I have a few thoughts but want to see what everyone has to say about it.

[Whoremonger]

Women flake when their interest level is low. They like to flirt, and handing out a number is as much a validation to some women as it is to the men who get them. A lot of women are also just looking to fuck that night too. Game is an emotional rollercoaster and cannot replace genuine status.

Play the numbers.

[OGNorCal707]

I got 7 phone numbers in the past two days, which is the most I've ever gotten, and I think it's kind of ridiculous. Recently I've had a low flake percentage, so it will be interesting to see how many of these girls will end up flaking. The thing is though, I built the strongest connection and attraction with the least attractive ones (6.5-7's) and probably have less chances of success with the (8s-9.5), but I probably will still pursue the hotter ones first. If flaking wasn't so bad, I wouldn't know what to do, I've never had so many "prospects" at once.

[kerouac]

x = numbers
y = flakes
z = success

x/y = z

if x/y = 1, you are a true playa
if x/y = 0, you are a biyatch

How do you get your z-value closer to 1?
Status.

[Roosh]

Some guy emailed me with his theory: there is such an increase in fatties that the cute girls have way more options than in the past. Hence flaking is increasing. Sounds like it could be a factor. I do notice that there are even fewer cuter girls in D.C. than a couple years ago.

[kingkong]

For DC cute girl count I'd connect the dots to the economy. Non-profits and law firms don't got the cash no more. And daddy's funds have taken a hit so he's not quite as ready with the subsidies.

[BostonBMW]

I am hitting the 80% mark but the strong connections are there and I must admit to using roissys trial texting approach. Maybe I'll call out some of the 20% flakers, for poor social skills.

I am not sure if Game having gone mainstream is the reason for this. Most of the guys who consider themselves 'gamers' running routines and sh!t are masking weak inner game. Just last night, I tried:

"Hey guys, are you in town for the summer?"

Massive success on that. I know it's a plain vanilla opener but within my context it works (many girls come out Boston just for the summer). So having some understanding of social dynamics might be helpful here.

[Giovonny]

Yes, more guys gaming means more girls flaking. They flake because they were never interested in you in the first place, they only gave you their number because it made them feel special for 2 minutes. Also if a strange guy in a bar ask for their number they have to say yes because they don't know if you are some weirdo who will start harrassing her just because she shot you down. I think most guys ask for the number too quickly, they don't build any attraction/connection and they don't get any IOI's, I usually only ask for a number after I gotten a few IOI's.

Another reason they flake is because you didn't handle the first few texts/phone calls well enough. You were funny and charming for 10 minutes at the bar, when you both were drunk. But, when you call your Game is not as smooth. Or she just doesn't like your voice or something as small as that, and its over, just like that. Guys get a number at 1am and they think the girl likes them. Girls give out their numbers like candy at that time, its just so they can tell their freinds in the morning that "like 10 guys asked me for my #".

Also, if you have never approached girls before, of course you have never gotten flaked on. Then you discover Roosh's blog and you start approaching girls with your beginner level Game. Well of course you are going to get flaked on all the time! It doesn't mean girls are flakier, it means you just started approaching girls with your beginner Game. As you get better and find your niche, you will have less flakes.

Solution? Improve your Game and find a niche (health club, college social club, get a job at the mall, photographer, etc.). Night Gaming is alot of hit and miss. Niche Gaming is better for me.

[OGNorCal707]

Giovonny would you care to share what your "niche gaming" entails? I know you mentioned that you live in San Francisco, but I don't think you posted anything on the San Francisco nightlife thread in the travel section, do you mostly do day game? Also I'd be curious if there are any bars/clubs that you do particularly well at in the city? I go down there once a month for a long weekend, and plan on moving there sometime in the next two years.

[speakeasy]

(07-05-2010 12:21 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I usually only ask for a number after I gotten a few IOI's.

I agree with that. I think we make getting a number the goal when vibing should be the goal. If you make it a point to vibe, then the number just comes naturally.

[Samseau]

getting a number without vibe = lottery ticket chances of success

[wolf]

I remember several times where I would meet a girl at a club, we would go dancing, then after she would want to talk. I don't have much to say, they would give me their number but nothing would happen with it. Some girls I'd meet at the bar, game them for an hour, have my buddy babysit the cockblock and then leave with their number (Good luck leaving with them when they have a cockblock with them). Nothing happened again. It's all a numbers game. There are some girls you approach, you game them and they will stick on you like white on rice. They even told me later that when I came up to them they felt like I was bullshitting them.

Approach in mass numbers. You'll forget about cockblocking if you approach 20-50 in a week. It will be like driving and hitting a red light, you know it will change in 2min. You know you'll still get to your destination but with more time due to the red lights.

[Giovonny]

I just had another thought about Flaking. Sometimes you will talk to a girl and you will do everything right. Your charming and sexy and you just Game her perfectly. You almost think she is wanting to leave with you but she insists that she leaves with her friends or whatever. You exchange numbers and you think you have a hot prospect on your hands.

But she was never even available. She has a bf, she is not open to meeting new guys right now, she just got out of an ltr, she is a tease, she a lesbian, your not her type.

So why did she give you her number and pretend to be interested?

Answer: She respected your Game. If you play right, most girls will play back. Like Mystery and those guys say, ...if you handle them right, they respond. Its like its hardwired into them. (not all, but alot of them).

But when she gets home, she knoes that shes not really making herself available to new guys right now, she just went out to have fun and maybe get hit on by a few guys. She will give out her number if someone talks to her the right way, but in the back of her mind she is not open to meeting new guys. As great as your first meeting was, she will flake.

You would have to really good looking to her and really impressive not get a flake here. And/or really patient in setting up your first date.

Why do girls do this? Because they are fucking nuts! Don't try to figure them out. Just figure out how to bang them.

[Giovonny]

(07-05-2010 12:47 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Giovonny would you care to share what your "niche gaming" entails?

Sure, Niche Gaming is finding and maximizing your niche. What are your natural talents and strenghts? How can you put yourself in social enviroments where you are using these strengths. You want women to oberve you in your best moments. And, if you are gonna compete against other guys, make sure you do it in games where you have the advantage. Don't go play basketball against Lebron and then complain that he got all the chicks. What you wanna do is play soccer or tennis against Lebron and then you can win some games, talk some shit, and show the girls that you are also an "alpha". Know your strengths and weaknesses, and game occordingly.

You can't always have social status and fame, but if you Game smart, you can have status and fame within an individual niche or 3.

Heres what I do:

I get myself into great shape and play alot basketball and soccer. I play in alot of local leagues. I DO NOT play in the top leagues with all the current and former college players. I will be an average player and they will get all the female attention. I play in the leagues that attract the most cute girls. There is a league at a really high end health club with tons of cuties. I am one of the better players in the league. I have met a few girls here, mostly because of the respect and social proof that I get from the other players, refs, and members of the club. I also play across town in a league that is almost all Black. I am one of the only white/latin guys in the league. Because of this, I get some attention. The bottom line is this, If I play well I have a good chance with alot of the cute black and mixed girls that fill the stands.

I also play indoor soccer at a warehouse that is in a latin neighborhood. Again, if i play well and carry myself right, I will get some attention from the latinas who watch the games.

One reason I like this type of Niche Gaming is because it gives the girls a few weeks/months to observe me in my comfort zone. I don't have to talk to them, my actions speak for themselves, of course I have to ready for that moment when we will begin speaking and saying hi to each other. I dress well and stay well groomed etc. (This stuff goes without saying). I have friends who work at alot of health clubs so i always use that to my advantage. I walk around the club with them and let the girls see that I know the people in charge. Then when they see or hear about me playing well in the leagues it gives me some status and social proof. That gets my foot in the door, but as we say in sports...I still gotta "Finish"

I also try to keep some presence/social status at the local yoga places. Tons of sexy women here. The more people know and respect me the easier it is for me to open and date local girls.

I also like to Game in bookstores and libraries because I enjoy intellectual discussion and i have gotten better at seducing girls thru their intellect. I seem to connect with intellectual fitness girls.

I also like to hit the salsa clubs, taco shops, etc in the Latin part of town to Game latinas. They think I might be latino but i dress/act American so if I use that properly it can help me here. I speak decent spanish but i never speak it here, better to get them to speak English to me.

All of these things are just Niches that I have had success in. They fit my natural talents and my personality strenghts. Thats really the point. Let girls observe you doing something really well. Whatever you are good at, do it in front of girls!!!

I have friends who do well with:

The local Facebook Music Scence. They comment and post and go to events and create a sort of on line persona in combo with playing in a band and partying in that scence. They do well.

Another friend is fat and average looking buy really funny and crazy. He says that if he can get a girl to work with him in his office he can get bang her in 6 months. He says first she will go for the hottest guy in the office and after that affair is over she will come to him because he is talented, funny, and one of the bosses. He has banged some cute office girls and is now married to a very good looking actress. He is a master of ...Long Term Office Game.

I rarely go out at night. This is probably why Niche Gaming is so important for me.

[OGNorCal707]

Hey Gio, thanks for the write up, I hear what you're saying, I plan on doing some niche gaming as well. I've been meaning to do yoga for a while now, as I live in a pretty liberal/hippy town and there are tons of hot girls that are into the yoga thing, but I recently started training Muay Thai, between that and the gym, it is hard to find time/energy/motivation to do yoga as well.

When I move to the city, I plan on taking advantage of the more social opportunities, while I am not a big sports guy, I may try to join a few rec leagues to meet cute honeys. Other than that I think I'm going to try day game at coffee shops (I'm a huge fan of Philz on 24th St.), as well a taquerias (Papalotes), both are prime, but full of hipster chicks, which can be challenging. I'd imagine yoga classes in the city are also golden, there is this place called Yoga Tree on Valencia St., I have a feeling that it's full of cute, chill, open women.

[Willy Wonka]

(07-04-2010 06:27 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

x = numbers
y = flakes
z = success

x/y = z

if x/y = 1, you are a true playa
if x/y = 0, you are a biyatch

How do you get your z-value closer to 1?
Status.

Somebody failed math class. That makes no sense.

[speakeasy]

(07-04-2010 08:45 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

I am hitting the 80% mark but the strong connections are there and I must admit to using roissys trial texting approach.

I was talking to this girl last night at an afterhours. She pulled out her phone and asked for my number. Before she left, I also got hers too. I'm thinking of trying Roissy's trial texting.

A girl asking for your number on the surface seems like a strong IOI, but in reality, it doesn't necessarily mean shit because girl's momentary emotional state defines how she behaves. And who knows what he state will be an hour after she leaves yet alone a day or two later. I had a similar situation a few months back where a girl I was vibing strongly with who I'd talked to for maybe a good hour asked for my number. I took hers too of course and she never called, which I kinda expected anyway as girls don't like making the first contact. I called her and she didn't return my call, I also texted her which wasn't returned either. Not only do women's phone numbers not mean shit, but even if she asks for yours it doesn't necessarily mean shit, that's how bad the flaking is getting these days.

Anyway, I digress. I like the idea of trial texting. Any good ideas of generic texts you can send out to gauge interest level?

[AlphaQup2nite]

I am thinking right along with roosh's blog post about cockblocks from a while ago.

Women have no repercussions from pulling this kind of crap, and its easier and more convenient for them to do so then show some respect. Its this mentality that causes flakes. Ive started taking the "anti cockblocking" movement that roosh posted and im having good responses.

Just call the girl out on it. Totally and respectfully, and dont apologize or give any kind of way for them to emotionally weasel out of being responsible. I do it with the "im too sick" and the other bullshit excuses that you get only after you txt/call them to find out why they didnt show up. Something along the lines of "Wow, you see, i though you were a cool, adjusted girl who knew how to deal with interpersonal relationships of any level. I cleared my schedule and turned down possible engagements because my word means something and i thought you were similar. I am sadly disappointed. Have a good life, as i do not have the time to waste with wishy washy people who cant value my time, or their own word. I hope that XXX still has room for me to join in XXX." Of course tailored to situations and much more harsh, as i just put the general idea down.

It actually can convert some flakes into an actual meeting, and the chick will spend a lot of the time trying to make it up to you, once they see you are a man who isnt going to let her whims decide how he spends his time, and nor will he be sitting at home pining away waiting for her. You need to be harsh, steadfast, and come of as genuinely offended, without being offensive. And for those that don't, it should rock them a little bit, and make it less likely to occur for the next guy.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(07-11-2010 10:46 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 08:45 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

I am hitting the 80% mark but the strong connections are there and I must admit to using roissys trial texting approach.

I was talking to this girl last night at an afterhours. She pulled out her phone and asked for my number. Before she left, I also got hers too. I'm thinking of trying Roissy's trial texting.
Anyway, I digress. I like the idea of trial texting. Any good ideas of generic texts you can send out to gauge interest level?

Actually I just finished reading the "The Ultimate Guide to Phone and Text Game." it's among the better books I read that deals with this subject. I haven't had the time to try any of that shit out, but I can tell that it works. It basically says that every female that gives you her number can be grouped into three categories. Short fuse, medium fuse and long fuse. Short being that she has a strong initial attraction to you and long being no interest in you. Futhermore, the author states that you should never ask for a date until a woman is a short fuse. The book then goes on into great detail explaining the different ways of converting medium and long fuses into short ones. For example, he says that women give their number all the time and a good way to distinguish yourself from the pack is to text a woman something witty and funny right after she gives you her number and she still in front of you.

As for "trial texting" he calls it "pings" he suggest, " I just met your twin," "I just wanted to touch base with you in case you are rich," "brownies or fudge cake" or sending what appears a mass email "hey guys party at Pablo's crib' lots of free Yeyo "

[speakeasy]

(07-12-2010 09:52 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

Actually I just finished reading the "The Ultimate Guide to Phone and Text Game."

Never heard of this book. I just looked it up and was floored that they are charging $97 for it. That's just extortion.

[kerouac]

(07-08-2010 05:25 PM)Willy Wonka Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 06:27 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

x = numbers
y = flakes
z = success

x/y = z

if x/y = 1, you are a true playa
if x/y = 0, you are a biyatch

How do you get your z-value closer to 1?
Status.

Somebody failed math class. That makes no sense.

Hehe you're kind of right, in the sense that I haven't touched math in almost 10 years. Even though it's a bullshit equation I made up to make this "theory" look pseudo-scientifically legit, I feel the need to redeem myself.

Thus:
If Flakes/Attempts is closer to 0, you da boss
If Flakes/Attempts is closer to 1, ur getting sauced

[OGNorCal707]

Last week (not the one that just past, but the one before), I went on a phone number collecting spree, between Thurs/Fri I collected six girls numbers, figuring that this numbers game thing was legit. The first two girls I contacted were the hottest and most desired, I texted them which was probably a mistake, and followed a generic straightforward formula, which was also probably not the best. Neither girl got back to me, but the hottest one was like a 9 and had a boyfriend, the other one I hadn't developed a strong enough connection with, to go all in on a text message without building more attraction/interest.

The next two girls, I called were both in the 7-8 range, one of them I left a message with and didn't call me back. The other one actually answered her phone when I called her, but claimed that she didn't remember meeting me or giving me her number, and thus wouldn't agree to go on a date with me. I actually think that girl did remember me, because she was giving me huge vibes (IOIs), wasn't that drunk as far as I could tell, and I ran game flawlessly, but right after I got her number I saw a friend (who thinks he's a PUA, and always talks shit on my game), who was trying to game a girl I had already hooked up with. Basically because I was drunk and trying to show up my friend, I swooped on the girl, spit some fire game and started making out with her within a minute, well the other girl I had just got the number from witnessed everything, so I think she was seriously turned off by the whole thing.

Finally I contacted my last two "prospects" both of whom were the least hot and the least desired of the group, but I figured I striked out so far, might as well try with these chicks. Both girls ended up getting back to me, and I set up "dates" with both of them for Weds and Thurs nights. The first date was with a girl who I'd say is a 6, she was a punk rock type chick with piercing and a lot of tattoos. We just met up at a local bar for some drinks, things were pretty mellow, I ran game, but wasn't really feeling her too much. We ended up making out a bunch, but at some point she started acting like a cunt and was flirting with a bunch of other guys that were entering her "orbit" while I was still chilling with her, I'm not sure if this was a form of a shit test or if she was trying to make me jealous, but I basically didn't give a fuck, just was a little annoyed. After a little while, we were both pretty drunk, and were chilling out in front of the bar when she was smoking a ciggerette, it seemed like we were about to bounce together back to my place, because she was drunk and I was going to give her a ride, and we both live in the next town over. She said she had to use the bathroom and told me to wait for her and that she'd be right back, but after about 10 mins. of waiting I was like WTF, where is this bitch? I decided that she wasn't worth going into the bar to look for and was probably chatting with some other dude, I wasn't that attracted to her because she had a little bit of a gut and no ass, so I basically just bailed out, even though I think I had a solid 50-50 shot of getting her to my place and getting laid.

The next night, on Thurs I had a date with a Native American girl, who I'd say is a 6.5, but I was way more attracted to than the punk rocker girl. We had our date at a tequila lounge in the next town over, things went really well, this is my normal first date spot, and I have yet to have any issues there. We started going at it making out for like a half hour straight without regards to anyone else, I was rubbing her pussy, kissing/licking her neck and the top of her breasts, she was grabbing my cock. I ended up fingering her on the street outside the bar and maybe could have taken her home that night, but I think she was giving some token resistance to not look like a slut. Normally I don't hit girls up the very next day (learned that the hard way, by driving girls away by seeming "needy"), but this chick hit me up, and seemed like she wanted to chill, so we set up another date for the that night (Fri). Took her to this new upscale-ish wine bar, and the vibe felt off, she seemed disinterested, and said she was "tired". I thought the night was lost, but out on the street in front of her car, we start making out like crazy, and I said "lets go to my place", she was totally down and we get to my pad. It was on from there, this girl must have not gotten laid for a while, because she was a total horny freak. I hit it raw dog styles, twice for too very long sessions, and she swallowed up both times, I even fucked her in the ass, and she let me jerk in her mouth when I was done.

So moral of the story is that, the numbers game seems legit, I am sure it will always vary, maybe you get 4 numbers and it gets you three dates and two lays. Maybe you get 8 numbers, one date and no lays, but in the end I'm sure the numbers will average out to something decent. I'm hoping to keep the native american girl on rotation as a fuck buddy, until I get the motivation to go out and collect another 4-8 numbers and start the process all over again.