[MikeCF]

Gmanifesto's take is so harsh because he lived on the West Side.

Although I never saw Mystery "in the field," I saw many well-known PUAs playing thumb wrestling and running other routines.

I'd see girls go along with it and be playful (sometimes even let the guy kiss her), which is all stuff you'd see on a highlight video.

Know how many times I saw a "big name" PUA actually leave with a hot girl?

Not once.

I'm not saying that's true of Mystery. But just be aware that highlight videos showing a girl and guy being playful and having a "connection" doesn't mean he's a closer.

It's like in sales. A lot of prospects will talk to you and let you entertain them.

The brass balls come in when they sign the dotted line.

Anyone can be an entertainer. Only closers close.

In my experience most "PUAs" are entertainers.

[Aliblahba]

(04-10-2013 06:14 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Gmanifesto's take is so harsh because he lived on the West Side.

Although I never saw Mystery "in the field," I saw many well-known PUAs playing thumb wrestling and running other routines.

I'd see girls go along with it and be playful (sometimes even let the guy kiss her), which is all stuff you'd see on a highlight video.

Know how many times I saw a "big name" PUA actually leave with a hot girl?

Not once.

I'm not saying that's true of Mystery. But just be aware that highlight videos showing a girl and guy being playful and having a "connection" doesn't mean he's a closer.

It's like in sales. A lot of prospects will talk to you and let you entertain them.

The brass balls come in when they sign the dotted line.

Anyone can be an entertainer. Only closers close.

In my experience most "PUAs" are entertainers.

But a good con artist will always find an audience. I'm done ragging on Mystery. Let his spirit live. It keeps the thirsty masses down. Less competition for me.

[TheSlayer]

I will try to give the perspective of younger members who know about Mystery and leaned about game from the whole PUA culture.

Everything that I know about game has come from pickup literature. After a severe bout of one-itis in 2008, a friend gave me a copy of The Game. Until then I did not know it was possible to learn how to pick up girls. I was of the traditional mindset that "it's just supposed to happen" and "you just tell a girl you like her, it will work out". Instead I got friend zoned. I then ended up reading the Mystery Method, Magic Bullets, and a lot of David DeAngelo shit which all changed my personality and "game".

I do remember Neil Strauss saying that even though he started out with the crazy outfits and whatnot, you should wear what works for you. It was in his book that I read that men can become presentable by working out and dressing sharp and still get good results even if you are not good looking.

I never idolized Mystery though because I understood his whole goth/magician/rock star persona wasn't for me.

What did work for me was the model he created and it gave me an idiot's guide of what to do to pickup women.

Yeah, in 2013 I can say that I have game "internalized" but this is now. No way without reading the Mystery Method and Magic Bullets I know what to do with women. It is what it is.

This thread highlights the divide between "natural" vs. learned (PUA) game members. All of the naturals here are saying Mystery was overrated or even gay or whatever and then you have some guys defending him.

For me it was never about his nail polish or eyeliner or whatever the fuck he wears. For me it was about learning game to better myself with women. I can't be the only forum member who wasn't a natural.

In fact, I found Roosh through Heartiste about 3 years ago when he wrote more about game than politics. Obviously, this forum is more encompassing than just a simple game forum and this is about the entire manosphere instead of just game (like many other PUA forums).

[Aliblahba]

The fun part is, Mystery is an active poster on this forum. The guys that have "read" his material should be able to pick him out.

[soup]

(04-10-2013 06:37 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The fun part is, Mystery is an active poster on this forum. The guys that have "read" his material should be able to pick him out.

How do you know?

Here's another question:

We say that PUA/game can help guys who aren't naturals.

But, is the reverse true?

Like, if a natural was writing on this forum and reading game blogs, I wonder if it would throw a wrench in his game.

[Spike]

(04-10-2013 06:11 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 02:25 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

How many of you haters retired at the age of 37/38 like Mystery? Dude made enough to retire and probably has some guy working for him raking in some extra affiliate cash.

If an unknown guy like me makes a few hundred a month with one book without much promotion. How much do you think a guy like him is still making?

It may come as a surprise, but I can think of at least 3 guys on the board who have/could have retired (but still wanted to chase paper) younger than 38, and I know a guy who posts who is in his mid-20s and probably will have enough cash stacked to retire at 31.

Not everyone who disagrees with a guy is a hater.

Hating means you're looking at someone better than you and find a way to snipe at the guy to bring him down to your level.

Sometimes you're better than a guy (or equal to him) and just point out some obvious flaws.

Doesn't mean you're a hater; just means you disagree with the guy.

Yes, we all know a guy or two who retired early but that's not the point. The point is that it's still pretty special for an 37/38 year to retire and live comfortably including have some fame. For every guy that retires at an early age there are 10000 who work till the official retirement age and never experienced wealth or fame. Or had even one hot girl in his bed.

I don't think there are hardcore Mystery fan boys on this forum but you got to respect the guy for accomplishing what he did. He may not be the first but he sure got things rolling where there was next to nothing before. He was there at the right time and with the right know how just like guys as Ferriss, tony robbins, chicken soup for the soul guy, The secret etc etc

Guru's are all the same. They sell dreams. How many guys have read a book like The Game and dreamed of being a major player just to quit and move on? I bet the majority of the readers.

[Aliblahba]

(04-10-2013 06:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 06:37 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The fun part is, Mystery is an active poster on this forum. The guys that have "read" his material should be able to pick him out.

How do you know?

I know.

(04-10-2013 06:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

Like, if a natural was writing on this forum and reading game blogs, I wonder if it would throw a wrench in his game.

No. Naturals happen in baseball, but they still have to go out to the field and play with the others.

[soup]

(04-10-2013 06:46 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

[quote] (04-10-2013 06:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

The fun part is, Mystery is an active poster on this forum. The guys that have "read" his material should be able to pick him out.

How do you know?

I know.

Ha, what's the point of mentioning this if you aren't going to tell us? Are you friendss with him or something?

[Spike]

delete

[Spike]

(04-10-2013 02:41 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

It was coming from some alternative fantasy world or something.

Kind of reminds me of some one here.

[attachment=11051]

[Divorco]

(04-10-2013 05:30 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Mystery has shitty game.

How do you explain his mainstream success?

Did he just get lucky? (right place, right time, right product)

He hung out in clubs and dressed weird to get curious girls to approach him. After six years he started posting on message boards in 1998. Mystery started giving seminars in 2001 and met Neil "Style" Strauss at one in 2002. Then they launched "Project Hollywood", getting roommates to pay their rent in exchange for coaching. In 2005 Strauss used his New York Times connections to get his book reviewed, and it became a bestseller.

New York Times Book Review of The Game

This free publicity led to a VH1 television series and generated millions of dollars in workshops and course sales. When people think of commercial PUA, they think of Mystery in a fuzzy top hat. That doesn't mean his teaching is good or bad. It helps some people, and hurts others.

Nick Krauser had a good description of the history of PUA. Mystery's routine-based social robot Aspie game encouraged shy guys to approach. But it also made them incongruent and ruined their inner game because they were phony, trying to trick girls. Mystery's roommates formed RSD and emphasized inner state, where you are more invested in yourself than in some random girls' opinions. But in Krauser's words, RSD-types are weird cultist self-helpy schlubs (e.g. Roger) or embarrassing awkward social violators (the Beasts). Denying reality is a fast-track to disappearing up your own arse. PUA progressed to "Alpha Asshole" game and travel/lifestyle design.

[Screwston]

[MikeCF]

(04-10-2013 06:40 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

I don't think there are hardcore Mystery fan boys on this forum but you got to respect the guy for accomplishing what he did. He may not be the first but he sure got things rolling where there was next to nothing before. He was there at the right time and with the right know how just like guys as Ferriss, tony robbins, chicken sou for the soull guy, the secret etc etc

You never heard of Doc Love?

I was reading his weekly column at Ask Men in 2001. Never heard of Mystery until I saw Roissy tout him.

Then I read Mystery Method and thought it was fucking weird and it did not help.

That's great that some guys like Mystery, sorta how guys get man crushes on pro football players.

But a lot of the arguments are pretty weak. You said he got rich. Great. What's that got to do with anything?

Who here used the "Mystery Method" to actually get laid on a consistent basis?

At the end of the day (or night), that's all that matters.

Where are guys coming in saying, "Man, I never got laid. Then I read MM and was pulling girls far hotter than before. The quantity and quality of my lays increased big time!"

That's a guy I'll listen to. I'd be curious what specifically the guy learned from MM that changed his game.

But just saying he got rich is boot licking and has nothing to do with the convo.

[Divorco]

(04-10-2013 06:39 PM)soup Wrote:  

if a natural was writing on this forum and reading game blogs, I wonder if it would throw a wrench in his game.

Ali said The Game fucked up his game until he abandoned it. Mark Manson wrote:

Neil’s book exposed me to the idea that any man can improve his ability with women ..., I have nothing but appreciation.

But with that, let’s get real.
...
The Book Isn’t Completely True
...
Looking back at the book, it’s amazing that so many thousands of people actually believed that this crap worked. Opinion openers? Do you believe in Spells? Fuzzy top hats? Really?
...
I’ll never forget the night I was talking to three cute girls at a bar, trying desperately to do a sleight-of-hand magic trick ... . The girls had been extremely warm when I approached them, but now they seemed to be just being polite. ...

She interrupted me, looked me dead in the eye, and said, “You were kind of cute. You should try being normal next time.”

Thoughts on "The Game"

RSD gets the most hate because it messed up a lot of students. Presumably a natural can just jettison the teachings.

[soup]

(04-10-2013 07:20 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 06:40 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

I don't think there are hardcore Mystery fan boys on this forum but you got to respect the guy for accomplishing what he did. He may not be the first but he sure got things rolling where there was next to nothing before. He was there at the right time and with the right know how just like guys as Ferriss, tony robbins, chicken sou for the soull guy, the secret etc etc

You never heard of Doc Love?

I was reading his weekly column at Ask Men in 2001. Never heard of Mystery until I saw Roissy tout him.

Then I read Mystery Method and thought it was fucking weird and it did not help.

That's great that some guys like Mystery, sorta how guys get man crushes on pro football players.

But a lot of the arguments are pretty weak. You said he got rich. Great. What's that got to do with anything?

Who here used the "Mystery Method" to actually get laid on a consistent basis?

At the end of the day (or night), that's all that matters.

Where are guys coming in saying, "Man, I never got laid. Then I read MM and was pulling girls far hotter than before. The quantity and quality of my lays increased big time!"

That's a guy I'll listen to. I'd be curious what specifically the guy learned from MM that changed his game.

But just saying he got rich is boot licking and has nothing to do with the convo.

Almost all the game guides that I've read (like magic bullets and bang) outline a linear progression that is similar to MM. Attraction first, comfort, seduction..

Beta guys flip it around and do comfort before generating attraction. That's why girls get "creeped" out by "nice-guys" who all of a sudden start trying to make out with them.

Some of them say that you can do both attraction and comfort sort of at the same time without having to be so formal.

I don't know if there a guide that came out before MM that laid it out so well.

You can see it in Roosh's writing about baiting girls- you create attraction by dropping hints of your value and sort of pushing the girl away. Then you qualify her with some comfort (pull).

[Sebastian]

<<<<<<<<<-----------------

Look how many people are arguing. This is why I hate 'Mystery'

[thegmanifesto]

(04-10-2013 02:25 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

How many of you haters retired at the age of 37/38 like Mystery? Dude made enough to retire and probably has some guy working for him raking in some extra affiliate cash.

If an unknown guy like me makes a few hundred a month with one book without much promotion.

Neil will financially idolize anyone with two Dutch Guilders to rub together.



And idolize someones "lifestyle" if they have a sleeping bag with only a few holes in it.

(04-10-2013 07:05 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(04-10-2013 02:41 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

It was coming from some alternative fantasy world or something.

Kind of reminds me of some one here.

Coming from you, I will take that as a compliment.

Thanks.

[j r]

(04-09-2013 10:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Does Zima really need its own thread? It was a 90s joke but I'm almost positive he would have been drinking them or wine coolers.

Kamaki makes a good point about strong coffee when he's out. I sometimes stop drinking and down a couple turkish coffees a couple waters and resume. That's usually when I start during the day and re-up for the long haul. Don't be afraid to leave whatever venue and do this.

Wow. That is the first time I heard a Greek person call it Turkish coffee.

[Vicious]

I think the issue is that many guys had their first exposure to game from "The Game"/Mystery method thus they credit it with their initial success.

[sucio44]

Mystery invented the Internet.

[scotian]

Man this thread is hilarious, I haven't laughed so hard in awhile, G and Emech are dropping some real gems here. I think this thread highlights the differences between guys who've been banging women before the whole game industry became popular and those who used game advice to start banging on a regular basis. I think that most of us in the former group are 25+ and guys like Ali, G, Emech, etc are old enough to remember the glory days of the 1990's. I actually feel sorry for the young guys who are reading so much of this game theory without working on the basics, plus you young guys have to deal with the biggest retards in human history, 18-22 year old western girls. They weren't always that bad guys, trust me.

As I said before, I learned the old way, from my friends. I don't consider myself a "natural" as I have to work pretty hard at times but I was fortunate enough to grow up with friends who are what would be considered here as alpha and they showed me the way. Also, sometimes I have to remind myself that there's guys out there (especially on a forum like this) who didn't grow up like I did, they were sheltered, introverted or whatever and it contributed to their lack of success with women. I grew up completely different, none of my friends were nerdy or shy, if anything I was the one who got laid the least but I still managed to get bangs and into relationships because by hanging with my crew, there were always girls around at the parties we threw, the hockey games we were playing in, etc.

I don't have an opinion on Mystery but if some guys out there used his techniques to get laid then good for them. The only game literature I've read is Roosh's and I think that its very reasonable and realistic and I especially like the advice on style, fitness, nutrition, travel, etc.

[Vitriol]

The idea that some people here are selling is that we should all be on Mystery's cock because he made a lot of money and was famous for a few years... regardless of what he did to get there.

There are plenty of guys out there who made money for dubious reasons, who really gives a flying fuck?

[Tex Pro]

A lot of hate for Mystery on here that I think is unwarranted.

Mystery popularized the whole game/PUA movement. No one is saying he was the first player or the greatest player on Earth, but you can see his influence on later works of game and even some of Roosh's early stuff. Again, dudes don't realize how scarce info on game was before Mystery came along. Mystery is the first guy to popularize game for the masses, and his influence on the PUA/game industry is greater than anyone else. Period.

Haters can hate all they want, but they can't take that away from him.

[Ovid]

I don't know that anybody here worships the guy. He got some key things right that most (average and therefore beta) guys would never have thought of, and he wrote a book on how to game and have sex with girls that was a little more realistic and approachable than other stuff that was out at the time. His competition was Ross Jeffries' "Speed Seduction," and when you read that, Mystery's stuff seems a hell of a lot more real-world (which is really saying something, I know.) He dressed like a weird emo-goth-whatever fag, but his explanation in the concept of "peacocking" is common sense -standing out from the crowd appearance-wise in some way that girls will appreciate. His peacocking happened to be tailored to some weird subculture, but girls are girls... Goth girls might really go for that crap, I dunno. Hipster girls evidently like guys who wear skinny jeans and hillbilly flannel shirts, and classy girls like guys who wear well-tailored, elegantly-cut suits. Point is, the dude made some good points, and exposed thousands of guys to some basic ideas about how to get girls which old-school men have passed on for thousands of years, but which large sections of the population have forgotten in modern times due to feminism and too-comfortable suburban living.

Things have moved on. Mystery's book was maybe the best available in 1998, but in 2013, its defects are clearly visible. Perhaps a car analogy will illustrate my point: There were better cars made, but they were rare and expensive, and the Model T was pretty sweet in 1909 when it first came out. It even seemed revolutionary, and got you from point A to point B, making cars popular. But newer, better, more refined, reliable, faster cars came out, so by the 30s it was a complete anachronism. Even if it was outdated though, it still got some respect (and still gets some today) for what it had accomplished. I would not recommend anybody buy or read Mystery's book today, just like I would not recommend anybody buy a Model T for their daily commute, and obviously the guy has some mental issues, or gay issues, or sex drive issues, and was not a highly skilled player by today's standards. For typical beta guys in 2000, though, the idea that there was an alternative to the frustrating and useless old advice to "be yourself, buy her flowers, hold the door, and tell her how much she means to you" seemed revolutionary.

[MikeCF]

(04-10-2013 11:48 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

A lot of hate for Mystery on here that I think is unwarranted.

Who's hating bro?

My "game" story is pretty simple. I found Roissy's blog after Tyler Cowen mentioned it (but didn't link to it, calling it too evil to link to). Read the site, it all made sense.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalre...ty-li.html

Roissy pumped MM. I bought it, read it, tried all that "The Game" shit.

Got the stupid t-shirts. Pea cocked. Used negs.

Dropped all that The Game shit and did better.

That ain't hate. That's simply saying, "This shit didn't work for me."

I'll ask you what I've asked others:

What did you specifically do from MM that caused you to be with a higher quantity and quality of girls than you would have otherwise been with?

This is a game forum.

If you did something specifically that helps and got it from MM, awesome. What exactly did you do?

Did wearing Ed Hardy t-shirts and painting your nails black and asking girls about the fight outside help you get laid?

Drop a (historical) datasheet, yo. I'd genuinely love to hear it.