[worldwidetraveler]

(04-04-2013 04:57 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

So if I'm ever curious about a country I have to go there because there's no point determining if it's right for me by asking? You could hold the same attitude about any country and then we wouldn't need a travel forum. You're reinforcing my observation.

For the record I'd love to go to the Ukraine.

Ah changed your post. At least we have something to talk about with your change.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions on a country. How many questions do you need to ask before you decide to either go and check it out or not? If you need to continually calibrate then you should look for better places that fit your personality.

Talking about how Vegas fits in with Ukraine isn't going to help anyone. We each have our own experiences, personality and style. I wish it was easy to say Vegas was like Odessa for everyone.

You won't determine if a country is right for you until you actually go. Until then, it is merely speculation. I thought you were a facts kind of guy.

[Vicious]

(04-04-2013 05:05 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

There is nothing wrong with asking questions on a country. How many questions do you need to ask before you decide to either go and check it out or not? If you need to continually calibrate then you should look for better places that fit your personality.

<snip>

You won't determine if a country is right for you until you actually go. Until then, it is merely speculation. I thought you were a facts kind of guy.

If that's your process then good luck with that. I prefer to remain flexible and utilize the immense resources this forum has. I trust many people on here and consider their second hand info to be very close in importance to my own impressions when determining where to go. Heck, that's why I come here, so I won't have to blow time and money going places which might not be for me.

Obviously we do things very differently so I don’t think this meta-discussion on how-to pick travel locations has any promise.

[The Fantasist]

(04-04-2013 02:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

....I get the feeling Ukraine is being handled as some sort of holy idol that is to be treated with silk gloves, reverence and is not to be questioned.

I don't know where you get that idea from.

I don't recall anyone on here painting the Ukraine as being some kind of holy idol. The women are incredibly attractive yes but the place itself has all kinds of issues going on that people have discussed. Roosh himself was pretty vexed by the place and people at times and has discussed this. I personally dislike it the most out of the Bel-Rus-Ukr triumvirate but that is just my take.

As regards to G liking it. My personal take is it's seemingly not his kind of place or rather there are many places that would probably suit him better and where he would have a better time. However if he has an interest in going then he should check it out but hit Kiev and stay away from provincial cities. One thing he won't be disappointed in is the physical beauty of the women.

[worldwidetraveler]

(04-04-2013 05:51 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

If that's your process then good luck with that. I prefer to remain flexible and utilize the immense resources this forum has. I trust many people on here and consider their second hand info to be very close in importance to my own impressions when determining where to go. Heck, that's why I come here, so I won't have to blow time and money going places which might not be for me.

Obviously we do things very differently so I don’t think this meta-discussion on how-to pick travel locations has any promise.

Vicious, I don't understand why we are having a problem communicating but apparently we are. heh

Yeah, I do the same thing. That is how I found this forum, searching for info on a country. Even if a country looks good on paper, I won't know if it fits my personality until I spend time there.

Maybe some guys just have the personality to kill it, in a country, while I don't. I haven't seen anyway to judge that from forum posts. If G likes to go into a bar, talk with everyone, have a larger than life personna, he will get looked at like a freak in Ukraine.

That is the same reason why saying how I do in Vegas won't help people interested in Ukraine.

I just think your original post was more about creating drama. Anyway, this thread is about Ukraine not about what we are talking about.

[Vicious]

(04-04-2013 05:52 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 02:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

....I get the feeling Ukraine is being handled as some sort of holy idol that is to be treated with silk gloves, reverence and is not to be questioned.

I don't know where you get that idea from.

From this thread and the one on the Ukrainian talk show.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-03-2013 10:57 PM)slubu Wrote:  

Maybe my vacation mindset has something to do with it (higher energy), but it doesn't change the fact that in Ukraine I'm perceived as higher value.

How do you create that "higher value" in a country in a short period of time?

(04-04-2013 02:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

Reading this and other threads on the Ukraine where G is trying to calibrate the place I get the feeling Ukraine is being handled as some sort of holy idol that is to be treated with silk gloves, reverence and is not to be questioned.

I have noticed that a little as well about certain places, if you ask a few questions, people start getting real jumpy.

Other places, you can ask questions to death, and the same ones over and over and it is ok.

I mean we could start 30 threads this month about where to stay in Las Vegas and it would be cool.

But ask a few questions on a place that is relatively unknown to most of us and a place that has vague information at best about and people start spazzing hard.

slubu gave me some great info though.

[Greek kamaki]

In Ukraine you have to pay double or triple for the amount of comfort which is taken for granted for the West. The point is that this amount of comfort puts you in the territory as king in girls eyes.

[POHammer]

(04-04-2013 09:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

In Ukraine you have to pay double or triple for the amount of comfort which is taken for granted for the West. The point is that this amount of comfort puts you in the territory as king in girls eyes.

Mr. Kamaki,

For the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine (South and East), do you recommend day or night game? Also, what is the best location for day approaches (park, store, cafe, ?

Бантор

[jimukr104]

(04-03-2013 08:51 PM)slubu Wrote:  

G, if you want a comparison here it is:

Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th.
Of my 10 nights in NYC, I banged 3 girls and had a few others on my bed.
Of my 16 most recent nights in Vegas, I banged 8 girls and 2 others on my bed.
Of my last 11 months in California, I banged 12 girls and I don't know how many more that got close.

Crazy isn't it? In about a month outside CA I have the same success as in about a year in CA.

Anyway, aesthetic quality goes in that order - Ukraine first (avg 7.4), then NYC (very close second) (avg 7), then Vegas then California. Personality goes in the same exact order, except California is way way on the bottom. Youngest was Cali (18), most fun was NYC (22yo carefree girl), most likely to be girlfriend was Ukraine (19yo virgin), most beasts goes to Vegas (blackout drunk 2x).

But realize Ukraine isn't for everyone. My friend who I went with those same nights only got 1 bang and it was on the last night. I got shutout completely in Scandinavia and Poland, both known as "easy" spots. Everyone's looks and styles will factor into the equation more than one thinks.

As VP pointed out, it's the ability to consistently attract and close higher quality girls that matters. I know by now that I can pull 6s, the occasional 7s, and the once in a while 8s in California. In NYC, that goes up 0.5-1 point. In Ukraine, while I don't have a huge sample size I believe it can go up 1 or more.

I'll be back there in June, see what a month and now having learned some basic Russian will do. To say I'm excited is an understatement.

I once said you excel at "big city game". Seems bigger the city , more flashier the nightlife better you do. BUT lets put it in perspective.
1. In Ukraine you come across as a rich foreigner and you hunted in EXPAT places. These are places the women SEEK guys like you.Most locals can't afford table service etc.
2.I am shocked you don't kill it more in L.A.. It must be YOU holding you back. Maybe you don't like to shit where you live??The reason I say this is my take on Vegas is that the majority of visiting chicks come from L.A. or southern Cali. My family has a home there, so I have spent time there. Basically law of averages dictates you are hitting up in Vegas NATIVE girls of our own home city ,lol. So I guess they loosen up considerably when in Vegas. But I feel you could do A lot better in L.A. if you tried approaching similar.

If G manisfesto's game is indeed "loud and animated", he might do well with chicks in FSU/EE who miss that aspect in their life. But be aware, women are pretty MONOTONE there.Its like talking to SPOCK from STAR TREK. You could tell them they won the lottery and it would take minutes of them thinking about it before showing expression.I do good with them because
1. i am ethnically one of them(they are programmed to accept there own)
2. because i am someone who comes across monotone and stoic(a cop after all). This is what they attract to.Alcohol ofcourse makes them display emotions better.

[Partizan]

(04-03-2013 08:51 PM)slubu Wrote:  

G, if you want a comparison here it is:

Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th.
Of my 10 nights in NYC, I banged 3 girls and had a few others on my bed.
Of my 16 most recent nights in Vegas, I banged 8 girls and 2 others on my bed.
Of my last 11 months in California, I banged 12 girls and I don't know how many more that got close.

Crazy isn't it? In about a month outside CA I have the same success as in about a year in CA.

Anyway, aesthetic quality goes in that order - Ukraine first (avg 7.4), then NYC (very close second) (avg 7), then Vegas then California. Personality goes in the same exact order, except California is way way on the bottom. Youngest was Cali (18), most fun was NYC (22yo carefree girl), most likely to be girlfriend was Ukraine (19yo virgin), most beasts goes to Vegas (blackout drunk 2x).

But realize Ukraine isn't for everyone. My friend who I went with those same nights only got 1 bang and it was on the last night. I got shutout completely in Scandinavia and Poland, both known as "easy" spots. Everyone's looks and styles will factor into the equation more than one thinks.

As VP pointed out, it's the ability to consistently attract and close higher quality girls that matters. I know by now that I can pull 6s, the occasional 7s, and the once in a while 8s in California. In NYC, that goes up 0.5-1 point. In Ukraine, while I don't have a huge sample size I believe it can go up 1 or more.

I'll be back there in June, see what a month and now having learned some basic Russian will do. To say I'm excited is an understatement.

Sorry mate, but I have to call you up on this.

[Sol Invictus]

I had meant to try some day/night approaches yesterday, but unfortunately I haven't gotten the chance. The girl I've been seeing has been making it a point to spend as much time as possible with me. She's gone out and bought me food, cooked for me, cleaned my flat, and has been giving me fantastic sex frequently over the last several days. I've got to say, these women REALLY know how to get their hooks into you.

[hayesbrandon30]

(04-04-2013 01:19 PM)Sol Invictus Wrote:  

I had meant to try some day/night approaches yesterday, but unfortunately I haven't gotten the chance. The girl I've been seeing has been making it a point to spend as much time as possible with me. She's gone out and bought me food, cooked for me, cleaned my flat, and has been giving me fantastic sex frequently over the last several days. I've got to say, these women REALLY know how to get their hooks into you.

that's good to know that you are getting the female affection and the great sex too. ideally that's the dream woman for all of us. if you don't mind me asking, do you ever feel like you could get a prettier woman? do you see prettier woman and feel the temptation?

you said your girl is a 6 or 7. but is that by american standards or Ukraine standards. Because recently i have been talking to women online and being that i'm an american guy, i felt as though i was chatting with 7.5's and 8's. but by ukraine standards they're really 6's & 7's and even a 5 level. and i now see that with alittle effort i could go way beyond what i have been dealing with.

and having said that do you feel that a ukraine 7 has more motivation to please her man because she lives in the shadow of prettier women?

like for example, would a ukraine 8-9 girl do the same things as your girl is doing? please you sexually they way you like, motivate you, cook & clean, act feminine, support you etc.,?

[Sol Invictus]

(04-04-2013 02:15 PM)hayesbrandon30 Wrote:  

that's good to know that you are getting the female affection and the great sex too. ideally that's the dream woman for all of us. if you don't mind me asking, do you ever feel like you could get a prettier woman? do you see prettier woman and feel the temptation.

was attracting her easy for you? what advice would you give dudes visiting the more touristy places like Kiev and so on?

Yeah, if not a dream woman, than at least a hell of a lot better than what I was getting in the US.

As far as getting a prettier woman, I haven't thought about it. I'm plenty happy with her looks, and as far as LTR material goes, it's pretty much a non-issue. She's not a 9, but I doubt she's below a 5 on anyone's list. For mine, she's a solid 7, possibly an 8 when done up right.

I don't have any advice for tourist areas, as I haven't been to any yet. You'd be better off asking other members who have spent time there.

[Roosh]

(04-04-2013 06:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 05:52 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 02:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

....I get the feeling Ukraine is being handled as some sort of holy idol that is to be treated with silk gloves, reverence and is not to be questioned.

I don't know where you get that idea from.

From this thread and the one on the Ukrainian talk show.

Thing is the criticisms are coming from guys who have never been there and have already decided it sucks.

Ukraine sucks for some guys and is great for others. Personally it's a place I'd like to visit again in the future. I'll answer questions posed to me but a good time can't be guaranteed.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-04-2013 11:34 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

If G manisfesto's game is indeed "loud and animated", he might do well with chicks in FSU/EE who miss that aspect in their life. But be aware, women are pretty MONOTONE there.Its like talking to SPOCK from STAR TREK. You could tell them they won the lottery and it would take minutes of them thinking about it before showing expression.I do good with them because
1. i am ethnically one of them(they are programmed to accept there own)
2. because i am someone who comes across monotone and stoic(a cop after all). This is what they attract to.Alcohol ofcourse makes them display emotions better.

My Game isn't so much "loud". It is not like I am yelling all the time.

I change my pitch, tempo, and volume when I talk. I have found it helps control people.

My Game is Dynamic though. Not "montone". Best way to explain it is it is kind of like this:

Mixed with this:

A pinch of this:

And a full bottle of this:

Make sense?

[slubu]

(04-04-2013 11:34 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 08:51 PM)slubu Wrote:  

G, if you want a comparison here it is:

Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th.
Of my 10 nights in NYC, I banged 3 girls and had a few others on my bed.
Of my 16 most recent nights in Vegas, I banged 8 girls and 2 others on my bed.
Of my last 11 months in California, I banged 12 girls and I don't know how many more that got close.

Crazy isn't it? In about a month outside CA I have the same success as in about a year in CA.

Anyway, aesthetic quality goes in that order - Ukraine first (avg 7.4), then NYC (very close second) (avg 7), then Vegas then California. Personality goes in the same exact order, except California is way way on the bottom. Youngest was Cali (18), most fun was NYC (22yo carefree girl), most likely to be girlfriend was Ukraine (19yo virgin), most beasts goes to Vegas (blackout drunk 2x).

But realize Ukraine isn't for everyone. My friend who I went with those same nights only got 1 bang and it was on the last night. I got shutout completely in Scandinavia and Poland, both known as "easy" spots. Everyone's looks and styles will factor into the equation more than one thinks.

As VP pointed out, it's the ability to consistently attract and close higher quality girls that matters. I know by now that I can pull 6s, the occasional 7s, and the once in a while 8s in California. In NYC, that goes up 0.5-1 point. In Ukraine, while I don't have a huge sample size I believe it can go up 1 or more.

I'll be back there in June, see what a month and now having learned some basic Russian will do. To say I'm excited is an understatement.

I once said you excel at "big city game". Seems bigger the city , more flashier the nightlife better you do. BUT lets put it in perspective.
1. In Ukraine you come across as a rich foreigner and you hunted in EXPAT places. These are places the women SEEK guys like you.Most locals can't afford table service etc.
2.I am shocked you don't kill it more in L.A.. It must be YOU holding you back. Maybe you don't like to shit where you live??The reason I say this is my take on Vegas is that the majority of visiting chicks come from L.A. or southern Cali. My family has a home there, so I have spent time there. Basically law of averages dictates you are hitting up in Vegas NATIVE girls of our own home city ,lol. So I guess they loosen up considerably when in Vegas. But I feel you could do A lot better in L.A. if you tried approaching similar.

I remember you said that, and that's possibly true. With respect to LA, the girls are just bitchier and flakier here. Vegas is a different animal, read this on why: http://www.returnofkings.com/8157/the-ea...o-get-laid

Also, I actually haven't hooked up from many girls from LA in Vegas. They stem from Brazil to Jersey to SF to Oregon to etc..

(04-04-2013 12:41 PM)Partizan Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 08:51 PM)slubu Wrote:  

G, if you want a comparison here it is:

Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th.

Sorry mate, but I have to call you up on this.

Dammit, you got me. I've actually never had sex.

[slubu]

Quote:

Thing is the criticisms are coming from guys who have never been there and have already decided it sucks.

Ukraine sucks for some guys and is great for others. Personally it's a place I'd like to visit again in the future. I'll answer questions posed to me but a good time can't be guaranteed.

The funny thing is I almost didn't go to Kiev. It was right after reading on this board how horrible it is, how the girls just scam you, how it's impossible to get a ONS, and so on. Literally I was going to cancel and just go to Budapest or something.

Thank effin god I didn't. But to each his own, there is no universal magical place, got to get out there and explore.

[Sol Invictus]

Finally managed to get some time away from the girl today, and talked to a few women roaming the street. None of them spoke English at a conversational level, and that combined with my bad Russian meant that communication was too steep of a hurdle to overcome. However, none of the women ran away from me in horror, so that should at least say something.

One thing I do need to say here. If anyone here hasn't read Roosh's book "Bang Ukraine", and you're seriously considering coming here, READ IT NOW. Roosh really did his homework here, and my few experiences are largely matching up with his observations. Learn the language as much as you can before coming. Russian is a bitch to learn, but it'll be well worth it.

[iknowexactly]

(04-04-2013 06:22 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

[quote] (04-04-2013 06:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

[quote='Vicious' pid='411464' dateline='1365059648']
....I get the feeling Ukraine is being handled as some sort of holy idol that is to be treated with silk gloves, reverence and is not to be questioned.

Ukraine sucks for some guys and is great for others. Personally it's a place I'd like to visit again in the future. I'll answer questions posed to me but a good time can't be guaranteed.

I think the percentage of girls that look like the white models in Vogue, fashion magazines, etc, is amazing. A significant portion of girls in those magazines ARE from EE/RU. I think Ukraine is the only country I've seen where I saw a girl who was very pretty, but I actually thought her legs were too long in relation to her body for optimal elegance.

But the food and weather kind of sucked-- in particular if you need good protein sources-- you've got to find a deli that pre-cooks chicken filets. Protein powder is exotic and expensive and the stuff I saw was imported from the USA so you know they jack up the price. Girls are really pretty dumb/dull/incurious. From the weeks I've spend in Russia compared to the months I've spent in Ukraine, the Russians were significantly more classy and cultured.

However, I was in in Russia before the Facewhorephone cancer metastasized.

[BCZalgyris]

Slubu, how good is your Russian? Unless you speak it I honestly cannot believe your story of:

"Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th."

Perhaps you pipelined very hard before coming to Kiev?

From my observations last month in Kiev when I went out like a madmen, vast majority of the women wanted date's. I got two propositions after going out for 5 nights straight and hitting up around 7 clubs but in both cases these women seemed "shady" and not high on my rating scale. Anything above an 8 required major date-game and good Russian language skills as none of the women I met spoke better than intermediate English.

[slubu]

(04-06-2013 05:48 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

Slubu, how good is your Russian? Unless you speak it I honestly cannot believe your story of:

"Of my 10 nights in Ukraine, I banged 3 girls and got a BJ from a 4th."

Perhaps you pipelined very hard before coming to Kiev?

From my observations last month in Kiev when I went out like a madmen, vast majority of the women wanted date's. I got two propositions after going out for 5 nights straight and hitting up around 7 clubs but in both cases these women seemed "shady" and not high on my rating scale. Anything above an 8 required major date-game and good Russian language skills as none of the women I met spoke better than intermediate English.

I spoke no Russian then. I'm learning it now though and have some very basic skills set now.

I put my whole breakdown here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-16987.html

It's hard to get past the 7 mark and I didn't either in that short of a timeframe. Only the BJ girl was pipelined, the rest were from bars.

[Pierre]

(04-01-2013 07:23 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Hi

Would you be interested in hearing a breakdown of costs in the city where you are and an honest total of what you are spending a month all in?

Cheers

Why would you care Vorkuta?, as I recall you spilled opened your heart and told us how your decades long journey had come to an end and you had found the place you want to be for ever and ever and ever, Russia.

[BCZalgyris]

Slubu, I reread your report and still have a hard time believing that it is true although the places you mentioned check out so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm slightly older than you (34 years old) and basically did not sleep while I was in Kiev. Had one 50-hour session where I hit probably 4 clubs and pipelined like crazy, including a 6 hour date where I basically tried to be a gentleman and walk with the girl all over the city...it all only ended in a kiss and of course a solid contact.
I also went on other multiple dates but still could not close it. You are either the world's greatest PUA or the luckiest PUA to be able to do 3 closes in 24 hours with zero knowledge of Russian.

[jimukr104]

(04-07-2013 05:15 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

Slubu, I reread your report and still have a hard time believing that it is true although the places you mentioned check out so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm slightly older than you (34 years old) and basically did not sleep while I was in Kiev. Had one 50-hour session where I hit probably 4 clubs and pipelined like crazy, including a 6 hour date where I basically tried to be a gentleman and walk with the girl all over the city...it all only ended in a kiss and of course a solid contact.
I also went on other multiple dates but still could not close it. You are either the world's greatest PUA or the luckiest PUA to be able to do 3 closes in 24 hours with zero knowledge of Russian.

I think you missed something. Slubu had met and been with those chicks multiple times already. He just was able to close them in that 24 hour period.He says it was a learning curve and took time. Needing Russian isn't necessary when hitting top expat/tourist clubs or bars. Day game would be another story.

[The Fantasist]

(04-07-2013 02:33 PM)Pierre Wrote:  

(04-01-2013 07:23 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Hi

Would you be interested in hearing a breakdown of costs in the city where you are and an honest total of what you are spending a month all in?

Cheers

Why would you care Vorkuta?, as I recall you spilled opened your heart and told us how your decades long journey had come to an end and you had found the place you want to be for ever and ever and ever, Russia.

Because I was searching for a cheap university city to study Russian.

Why do you care what questions I ask anyway Deb, I mean 'Pierre'?