[Jonathon]

I want a better understanding of how some of you guys balance your personal religious beliefs with game.

I do not want a debate over which religion is better/worse. I want to understand how some of you guys do it.

For example, I was a very devout Christian who believed in God no matter what. But through a relationship I had in which I gave my virginity to this girl it made me doubt everything I knew about the Christian belief of love and trust.

I still believe in Christianity, but for now I'm completely pursuing game and want to basically see what it is like to have the ability to game and fuck whomever I want with no sense of attachment emotionally.

Thanks again guys,

[Giovonny]

Game is my religion. God designed me to be a leader of men and an alpha within my village. Game allows me to do Gods work. Helping men and women experience life to its fullest. The more I improve myself -- the more I help others improve -- the closer I get to what God designed me to do.

[WestIndianArchie]

[flow]

dont believe in christianity, believe in God.

[Mars]

I smell troll, but if not, here's some food for thought.

If 'religious beliefs' prevent you from expressing your true inner self by calling it wrong/immoral or sinful and deny you being able to pursue your passions (e.g having sex with beautiful women), I say it's time you find new religious beliefs.

[Martel]

First, Alpha is a tool. In and of itself, it's morally neutral. How you use it can be either good or bad.

Skittles Man is Alpha, but so were Joshua, David, and Jesus. If anything, being Alpha is more important in a chaotic world like ours than it is in an ostensibly more moral society.

Women like Alphas. If you're not an Alpha, that cute church chick is going to bang the basketball team instead of obsessing over you. It's your duty as a man to be a Man, and this is true whether you're Christian, secular, or Objectivist. He who can dominate can persuade others to follow him, and that benefits his followers, so much the better.

My take on the sex part is very complicated, and if I expound on it I'll likely get crap from all sides (and I'm at work so I may well not have the time to log back in to defend myself).

Nevertheless, there's nothing wrong with knowing how to get women to desire you. What you do with that ability is another question (and I admit the one you're asking, but...)

[soup]

Religion is the worship of an alpha male.

Worshiping alpha males is for women.

[Cincinnatus]

Atheist here. No conflict with any personal sense of religion or spirituality, because I don't believe in either.

[Giovonny]

(03-01-2013 03:58 PM)Mars Wrote:  

If 'religious beliefs' prevent you from expressing your true inner self by calling it wrong/immoral or sinful and deny you being able to pursue your passions (e.g having sex with beautiful women), I say it's time you find new religious beliefs.

That's beautiful!

[Flavius]

(03-01-2013 02:30 PM)Jonathon Wrote:  

But through a relationship I had in which I gave my virginity to this girl it made me doubt everything I knew about the Christian belief of love and trust.

Gave your virginity? Your first step in life needs to be dropping that mentality. As a man, getting laid for the first time isn't some special gift that you've given her.

I've been Christian for 15 years, discovered Roissy's blog a few years ago from a post at Instapundit, and have been making myself into a better man every day from that point on. Go read Chateau Heartiste from the start, and focus on the posts like "Spot the Alpha". Then look at who the best women in the church pursue. They chase the men who are leaders there. My pastor is constantly saying how he is so lucky that his wife puts up with his crap, and other beta things like that. But his body language is full on alpha. He needs to ramp up that beta just to give his wife reassurance that he's not going to stray, because the opportunity for a leader like him is everywhere.

But if you model yourself after his beta behavior, without having that alpha position, you just blend in with all the other overly sensitive Christian guys who can almost pass for gay.

I will say that I'm hooked up with a model. We aren't married. But we go to church together and I lead in every way when we're at church and out of it. She has actually uttered the words "Oh my God, you are such an alpha male" with a smile on her face.

One thing that may help you reconcile the two is to consider that being alpha isn't about getting laid a lot, though BEING ABLE to get laid easily is definitely a factor of being alpha. Everyone wants the best person they can get, and that best person is going to be desireable to others. The women in your church all want to have the guy that every other woman wants, so go be that guy. Don't go learn game so you can have a woman. Go figure out how you can be awesome, with or without a woman in your life, and the rest will fall into place.

[snoop]

(03-01-2013 03:58 PM)Mars Wrote:  

I smell troll, but if not, here's some food for thought.

If 'religious beliefs' prevent you from expressing your true inner self by calling it wrong/immoral or sinful and deny you being able to pursue your passions (e.g having sex with beautiful women), I say it's time you find new religious beliefs.

If your god wavers, don't worry about it, create another one.

[Jonathon]

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it, not trying to troll at all it's just some things I've been thinking about recently.

I grew up in a Christian religious home that in almost all ways would condemn the idea of game and sleeping with many beautiful women.

The fact that being an Alpha male helps all parts of your life is a great thing that I'm going to start concentrating more on.

And for that chick who I "gave" my virginity to, thanks for the change in mindset. She shouldn't be considered of any worth than any other woman out there.

[MikeinMKE]

Some of you really need to stop accusing every single poster of being a troll. it's almost to the point where you guys are trolls for doing that so damn often.

To the OP... I was raised Christian and "behaved" in college (there were a few guys in my frat who were the same way). I want to kill myself sometimes when I think back of all the cool opportunities I missed out on... I literally turned down a threesome because I thought it was a sin.

Please at least question your beliefs one more time if you haven't already. watch Bill Mahers religulous… Read Christopher Hitchens God is not great and decide if you really want to believe in that tripe. it was basically invented as a means of population control in the middle ages. Some of gore vidals essays and thoughts on atheism are also worth checking out

[Martel]

Take this metaphorically if you wish, but for those who believe that game and Christianity are completely incompatible, notice that man fell because Adam failed a shit-test.

[Tuthmosis]

   

[RougeNoir]

(03-01-2013 06:06 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I want to kill myself sometimes when I think back of all the cool opportunities I missed out on... I literally turned down a threesome because I thought it was a sin.

Tell me about it...In the past I've turned down at least 10 legitimate sexual advances due to sex "being a sin"..I would literally tell my friends, "nothing happened, i turned her down cause that's what Christian men do, we wait for marriage"..I would watch porn, do mutual masturbation w females, but somehow hamsterize that I shouldn't get my dick sucked or put my dick in the pussy

One time I literally had a girl riding me w my whitey tighties on still hahaha..Another time I had one in my bed literally say, "i want dick," then I was like "not now"...what a BS mindset I had...One of my life's worst regret was that whole situation, and I'm still somewhat pissed about it

[speakeasy]

If by "game" you mean sleeping with a lot of women and having a promiscuous lifestyle, I can't envision a way in which game and piety are compatible. You can obviously believe in a God and still be a player, but if you are using the Bible as a source of morality, then I don't see how the two are reconcilable without living in a somewhat hypocritical way. Of course many people who are religious and go to church still are promiscuous and the hypocrisy doesn't bother them. Some people are gay and go to church and the hypocrisy of their lifestyle doesn't bother them. So it all depends on what your tolerance for hypocrisy is.

[Ovid]

Here's my take:

A) nobody's perfect. The intention to be a better man is more important than the intention to avoid having sex with sluts. There have been a lot of good men, even some good Christians, who have had wild lives. Before St. Augustine settled down and became a bishop, and one of the cornerstones of Western thought, he picked up girls at church, had a mistress, and fathered an illegitimate child with her. Of course, later he said that was all very bad, but it was much easier for him to say that at 50 than it was for him to say that at 25 when he was doing it.

B) There are a lot of reasons that could be given for why it's "better to wait," or why premarital sex is inadvisable. Things that are inadvisable are labelled "sinful" because it's a lot easier for the priest to say "don't do that, it's a sin" than to say "well, think about a, which is bad for x and y, and think about z, which is bad for this reason and that reason, and in conclusion, it's really not a great idea for you and your girlfriend to be having sex right now." The main reason why sex outside of marriage is looked down upon in most religions is because ordinarily and naturally, once you start having sex, you have more sex. And more sex generally leads to babies. And babies outside marriage means fatherless children and destitute single moms. Grave social ills that no one would condone. All these things were pretty much infallibly true until the 1960s, when suddenly government policies made it possible for women to have children outside of marriage and not live in squalor, while at the same time, new technologies meant that sex did not necessarily lead to children -the risk of fornication was greatly reduced. This in turn led to something of a social revolution, so that sex outside marriage was not looked down upon so much by society, since the cat was now out of the bag -everybody could sort of smile and admit that they'd been doing it all along and playing with fire. Point being, whether it's objectively wrong or not, it's human nature, regardless of what official attitudes were, or what might be admitted: 99.9% of guys aged 14 or over, have always wanted to bang anything with two legs, long hair, a hole, and a heartbeat, and most of them have done so if they had the opportunity.

C) The girls we pursue are not virtuous angels who are innocently pursuing their domestic tasks and wishing patiently for a husband to come sweep them off their feet, provide for them, protect them, and make them mommies. It would be, IMO, wrong to game a girl who made it clear that she is looking to get married, is not planning on having sex before marriage, and wants a husband now. To do so would require leading her on, and while she might be weak and give in to the advances of a man she thinks will be marrying her, it would not be a good thing to do. Thankfully, or not, these girls are exceedingly rare nowadays. The girls we game, by and large, are sluts who have no desire whatsoever to be "good girls." They might pretend to be good girls sometimes, but this is an act. We know it, and they know it. And there's not much difference between fucking sluts and fucking prostitutes when it comes to the "socially destructive nature of the act" factor. Fact is, these girls are already corrupted and there's nothing any of us can do about it, so we may as well give them what they want, and enjoy them for what they are good for. Namely, lots of sex.

D) the strongest argument that can be made nowadays in regards to the sinfulness of premarital sex is that doing so with the intention to avoid having children is unnatural, and therefore wrong and sinful, since sexual pleasure is primarily for procreation and therefore shouldn't be experienced outside marriage since it only exists to encourage us to have children. This is a stretch, because obviously sex has secondary ends (satisfaction of inherent desires, bonding, etc.) and these are still useful outside marriage. In fact, nowadays, one might argue that men have a moral duty to have a lot of sex, because those aforementioned "good" girls are so rare. How is a man to recognize them and woo them when he does find them in our screwed up sexual marketplace today unless he's perfected the art of relating to women? And the only way to really perfect that art is to have sex with 20 or 30... Miss Goody Two Shoes is not going to be impressed with Mr. Right unless he can playfully banter with her, avoid pedestalizing her, make his feelings known through his actions, and all that. He can't do that if he's lived like a hermit to avoid all the sluts, who must inevitably make up the vast majority of his female interactions.

In sum: having sex with sluts really isn't a big deal.

[sixsix]

I'm an atheist, but here's my two cents anyway:

Nowadays Christianity has a lot of hardcore beta elements. It has succumbed to the female imperative and it has lost what made it great: values for a strong society through strong families.

A Christian Game blog you should read is Dalrock, a religious man, a husband, a father and alpha. He writes about religion, feminism and how the latter has poisoned the former successfully, leading to divorce rape and valueless women.

Be alpha in that you aspire to be a great, independent man. You stand for your principles and protect your family. You have to build a strong family with a woman that has proven worthy. The respect you command from people through your confidence and character is the foundation of their love and loyalty to you.

You don't need to be Christian for that. If you do want to be Christian, you should abide by it's principles. You can't cheat on girls, fuck whoever you want and at the end of the day demand to be seen as virtuous. That would make you the same as a rationalizing slut demanding to be treated like she's a good girl. And that is definitely not alpha.

[Mr.Barbarian]

Roissy: "Biomechanics is God."

[stardust]

(03-04-2013 02:28 AM)Ovid Wrote:  

Here's my take:

A) nobody's perfect. The intention to be a better man is more important than the intention to avoid having sex with sluts. There have been a lot of good men, even some good Christians, who have had wild lives. Before St. Augustine settled down and became a bishop, and one of the cornerstones of Western thought, he picked up girls at church, had a mistress, and fathered an illegitimate child with her. Of course, later he said that was all very bad, but it was much easier for him to say that at 50 than it was for him to say that at 25 when he was doing it.

B) There are a lot of reasons that could be given for why it's "better to wait," or why premarital sex is inadvisable. Things that are inadvisable are labelled "sinful" because it's a lot easier for the priest to say "don't do that, it's a sin" than to say "well, think about a, which is bad for x and y, and think about z, which is bad for this reason and that reason, and in conclusion, it's really not a great idea for you and your girlfriend to be having sex right now." The main reason why sex outside of marriage is looked down upon in most religions is because ordinarily and naturally, once you start having sex, you have more sex. And more sex generally leads to babies. And babies outside marriage means fatherless children and destitute single moms. Grave social ills that no one would condone. All these things were pretty much infallibly true until the 1960s, when suddenly government policies made it possible for women to have children outside of marriage and not live in squalor, while at the same time, new technologies meant that sex did not necessarily lead to children -the risk of fornication was greatly reduced. This in turn led to something of a social revolution, so that sex outside marriage was not looked down upon so much by society, since the cat was now out of the bag -everybody could sort of smile and admit that they'd been doing it all along and playing with fire. Point being, whether it's objectively wrong or not, it's human nature, regardless of what official attitudes were, or what might be admitted: 99.9% of guys aged 14 or over, have always wanted to bang anything with two legs, long hair, a hole, and a heartbeat, and most of them have done so if they had the opportunity.

C) The girls we pursue are not virtuous angels who are innocently pursuing their domestic tasks and wishing patiently for a husband to come sweep them off their feet, provide for them, protect them, and make them mommies. It would be, IMO, wrong to game a girl who made it clear that she is looking to get married, is not planning on having sex before marriage, and wants a husband now. To do so would require leading her on, and while she might be weak and give in to the advances of a man she thinks will be marrying her, it would not be a good thing to do. Thankfully, or not, these girls are exceedingly rare nowadays. The girls we game, by and large, are sluts who have no desire whatsoever to be "good girls." They might pretend to be good girls sometimes, but this is an act. We know it, and they know it. And there's not much difference between fucking sluts and fucking prostitutes when it comes to the "socially destructive nature of the act" factor. Fact is, these girls are already corrupted and there's nothing any of us can do about it, so we may as well give them what they want, and enjoy them for what they are good for. Namely, lots of sex.

D) the strongest argument that can be made nowadays in regards to the sinfulness of premarital sex is that doing so with the intention to avoid having children is unnatural, and therefore wrong and sinful, since sexual pleasure is primarily for procreation and therefore shouldn't be experienced outside marriage since it only exists to encourage us to have children. This is a stretch, because obviously sex has secondary ends (satisfaction of inherent desires, bonding, etc.) and these are still useful outside marriage. In fact, nowadays, one might argue that men have a moral duty to have a lot of sex, because those aforementioned "good" girls are so rare. How is a man to recognize them and woo them when he does find them in our screwed up sexual marketplace today unless he's perfected the art of relating to women? And the only way to really perfect that art is to have sex with 20 or 30... Miss Goody Two Shoes is not going to be impressed with Mr. Right unless he can playfully banter with her, avoid pedestalizing her, make his feelings known through his actions, and all that. He can't do that if he's lived like a hermit to avoid all the sluts, who must inevitably make up the vast majority of his female interactions.

In sum: having sex with sluts really isn't a big deal.

I think Ovid nailed it on A B and C - D is an interesting question for philosophers and theologians as to the validity of deducing normative claims from natural facts, at best this is inconclusive.

Whatever you believe, you're going to worship something. If not God you're going to put on a pedestal something (in Biblicalese - an idol) a job, a hobby, women, yourself, human desire needs to be directed towards something. Now at first glance it doesn't seem bad at all to make ourselves into our objects of worship, but as experience has shown, this results in isolation and misery. It works just about as well as putting a woman or a relationship on a pedestal. The reason this doesn't work is because whatever we worship in the world is subject to jealousy and rivalry. If we worship ourselves we begin to feel totally inadequate when we compare ourselves with others, or when we confront the reality of death or other existential horrors. When we worship another human being our entire reality becomes dependent on their affection, and we quickly turn into pathetic ... betas? Religion gives us a way out of the solipsistic trap and directs our being outwards in a way that is not harmful. In the process, it also has the ability to build community and authentic human relations.

So what about ethics? Again, I think Ovid nailed it. Sluts are, by definition, selfish whores. They worship what they can't have, and only respect being used and abused. They do not seek the truth, in fact, the hamster itself is a giant self-justification machine that runs from the truth as fast as it can.

Deceiving a girl who is genuinely looking to serve her husband in a self-sacrificing relationship is wrong - and religion in general condemns this pretty harshly - I think for good reasons.

As for sinfulness in general. Religious prohibitions are put in place to make community life as drama (re:violence) free as possible - don't steal, don't lie, don't fuck that dudes wife, don't be jealous of his things, keep your desire focused on something higher, don't fraud the poor and stupid, etc, etc. Once we understand that God loves us, and that he's not some vengeful thunder deity recording the amount of times we masturbated in the sky, we can get away from the infantile conceptualizing of reward and punishment. Since western civilization has largely (and ever increasingly) rejected these basic rules that keep the community together, the community (western civilization) is falling apart. Wives no longer submit to their husbands (or anything else), and no longer bear children, and lo and behold, the whole thing falls to shit.

Ultimately I see game as a roundabout way for these old truths to be solidly recaptured.

[Mage]

My personal belief is that God is the essence of ultimate Masculinity. (Not to confuse with some of many caricature images of masculinity like a PUA or a bodybuilder) This is in accordance with original Jewish knowledge from witch Judaism, Christianity and Islam arose. Today this knowledge is known under the name Kaballah although this knowledge is much older then this name, arising a lot of confusion. According to Kaballah (and every life experience of mine) the masculine quality is the quality of giving and the quality of Creator while the feminine quality is the quality of receiving and the quality of Creation. The purpose of Kaballah is to escape from the receiving-only consumerist ego-limited mode all creation starts out and to become an infinite creative Giving force similar to God. (God in the Kaballistic perspective is beyond good and evil and therefore Giving means giving both pleasure and pain, (just like you produce both pleasure and pain in a woman you game) while receiving means taking both pleasure and pain and living in this contrast (just like women are born to live).

Women approach God by worshiping a man in their lives, a single man since God is single and a man is the image of God, recognizing masculine values in him helping him, knowing they will never be like him yet learning from him, marveling him, hoping to give birth to a son like him from him. Practically for a woman Kaballistic practice is superficially not too different from a religious one.

The men however approach God by striving to be like him. This is the main practical difference from Christianity that will say you must be humble and cannot be like a God. The religions of this world try to turn anyone into a woman for control, this is natural and obvious. Being like God does not means being all nice and sacrificial like the caricature of Jesus (who was a kaballist by the way) that Christians worship. In Kaballah you must walk the balanced middle pillar between mercy and strength, between being nice and being nasty.

Now this is made a bit more complex due to the fact that every person has a masculine and a feminine side of his soul so every individual is actually doing both, but in society it is the man is the one who is the image of God and the women worship this image.

Kaballah recognizes that men are polygamous because God is single and united while Creation is multiple and divided. Kaballah recognizes women are hypergamous because they seek the image of God in a man. Of course kaballah doesn't use the word hypergamy to do this, but the knowledge is there.

Kaballah recognizes that God brings both pleasure and pain in a humans life to stir him from his self-entitled pedestal of egoism and to seek him. Kaballah recognizes that God is more often nasty than nice because bad boy game works on the overall feminine creation better then nice guy buddy game. Therefore Kaballah is OK with the argument that Gods allows so much suffering and it is OK with men creating mixed pleasure and pain in women to bring them down from their entitled princess pedestals and start respecting nature's laws. In Kaballah God equals Nature. But not just the visible nature also the invisible nature.

I believe that the purpose of evolution (driven by God) is to create a true man (true male in biological terms). A true man is a being that can stop bothering about the biological need to satisfy feminine imperative aside from the little token needed for procreation and is capable to turn his attention to things above him rather than things below. This is supported by the facts that X chromosome is older than Y, all living beings were feminine once, all primitive organisms are effectively feminine and only the pinnacle of evolution - the human male can reject feminine imperative. However he doesn't do it passively he must work to transcend it, that is evolution in progress, in humans it shifts from mere physical plane to a spiritual one. The evolution moves so that to create a more and more complex male organism to mimic the primordial image of God and that drags female evolution along.

Kaballah is the origin of all magick and can influence events, I have experienced this and I know that I am a Mage who can summon events even things and people into my life. To create magick you must game Lady Luck which just so happens to be a woman (speaking metaphors right now) and as they say ''fortune loves bold''.

This is true knowledge that includes all - God, purpose of life, game, everything. I call it Kaballah, but many people use this word in vain so not everything labelled Kaballah is true Kaballah. But the true knowledge is beyond names and can be called as you wish. Therefore it is not a religion. There are no priests no magic formulas a.k.a prayers no shit, yet it holds the true uncorrupted meanings and roots of all that is there in religions and in the world. There is no place for faith because you can prove this works by starting to control things that happen to you, just like you can prove game works by seducing women.

[soup]

I am god.

[FourToTheFloor]

Game is for people who want to look under the hood of humanity and understand how it actually works.

Religion is for people who don't ask those kind of questions, either out of willful ignorance or the fear of a chaotic reality.