[Jaylow]

(02-28-2013 03:27 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I read that thread but didn't see any tips on how to deal with smoking and working out.

Just a bunch of people telling you they are ex smokers or chew tobacco. Or people saying to drink wine instead.

I guess I don't know about the "population" of people on that site. Are they all body builders?

Or are some athletes like boxers/surfers/mma/parkour etc?

I cant do a search and read every thread for everyone. If that question is that important to you then you will have to spend 10 minutes to an hour looking through a bunch of threads searching for 5k+ posters and finding the answers yourself.

The highest rep posters (like 500k+ rep) usually have a few things in common, most went to top of the line schools and have continued their education on nutrition past schooling, some do studies on people themselves. There are a few olympic trainers and olympic nutritionists but they say the same things that the lower rep posters are saying. Alan Aragon is the poster on that website that everyone seems to look up to. You can go to his profile and read all of his threads but it will be confusing if you don't already have the knowledge of the basics.

[thegmanifesto]

(02-28-2013 03:50 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 03:27 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I read that thread but didn't see any tips on how to deal with smoking and working out.

Just a bunch of people telling you they are ex smokers or chew tobacco. Or people saying to drink wine instead.

I guess I don't know about the "population" of people on that site. Are they all body builders?

Or are some athletes like boxers/surfers/mma/parkour etc?

I cant do a search and read every thread for everyone. If that question is that important to you then you will have to spend 10 minutes to an hour looking through a bunch of threads searching for 5k+ posters and finding the answers yourself.

The highest rep posters (like 500k+ rep) usually have a few things in common, most went to top of the line schools and have continued their education on nutrition past schooling, some do studies on people themselves. There are a few olympic trainers and olympic nutritionists but they say the same things that the lower rep posters are saying. Alan Aragon is the poster on that website that everyone seems to look up to. You can go to his profile and read all of his threads but it will be confusing if you don't already have the knowledge of the basics.

Ok.

I appreciate your help. And I am not trying to get combative, but lets recap:

1. You come here saying the health threads on here are crap.

2. I say, fair enough, I still think there is some value to them because we have a unique perspective. But ok, sell me on bodybuilding.com

3. You direct me to a thread that says nothing about what I asked for.

4. I mention that it says nothing about what I asked for.

5. You then say, I need to look it up for myself.

Fair enough, you didn't really sell me on bodybuilding.com for what I was looking for.

I still think our health threads on this forum have merit.

We can disagree on that, and that is ok.

[The Pirate]

@Jaylow

I see what you are saying, but I would just add. The internet is full of articles/forums covering this subject. It is a huge business, and everyone believe they know the truth. Fact is, even if there are some general nutrition/workout "rules" out there, it also depends on your body,genetics,lifestyle etc. For me, when starting lifting weights, I picked up on all kinds of stuff from forums, and I had really no idea to where the next step in the jungle would be. However, after some time, I added some tips about nutrition and exercises that gave me the results I wanted, and forgot about the things I felt were useless to me. So I think, contrary to you, that posting tips and different resources is a good thing. Each and everyone need find what is working for them, their situation and bodies. And maybe more than anything, don`t search for the truth only in one forum.

@thegmanifesto
Not sure if you really asked for advice but anyway here I go
There is a difference in maintaining and shaping your body. On the way to gaining the muscle you want and get in shape, I dont think there is another way around other than doing it with a pretty clean lifestyle (very limited drinking) When you get to a certain level I`d say it`s possible to maintain it pretty well while drinking 3-4 nights a week. However, you will have to keep and eye on your nutrition and you need to work out 2 times a week (never on a hangover) At least that`s my experience. Every 4th month you would need to have a more clean month and focus on working out as you did in "the shaping period" This is my own experience, not taken from a forum. For me, its dumbbells all the way and I would highly recommend everyone to have a look at http://scoobysworkshop.com/ He ain`t trying to sell you anything and he gives spot-on advices for your own personal fitness goals. I gained 8kgs of mass in a crazy fast time, and I have kept it.

[Jaylow]

(02-28-2013 04:08 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I appreciate your help. And I am not trying to get combative, but lets recap:

1. You come here saying the health threads on here are crap.

2. I say, fair enough, I still think there is some value to them because we have a unique perspective. But ok, sell me on bodybuilding.com

3. You direct me to a thread that says nothing about what I asked for.

4. I mention that it says nothing about what I asked for.

5. You then say, I need to look it up for myself.

Fair enough, you didn't really sell me on bodybuilding.com for what I was looking for.

I still think our health threads on this forum have merit.

We can disagree on that, and that is ok.

1) Some comments are horrible and wrong, some are not. Roosh recommends starting strength for example which is exactly what BB.com recommends.

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

345) I was going to work and halfassed it, I am not doing searches on BB for anyone else. As I said, if some of the credentials I listed of posters there is not good enough and you rather trust people here then thats well within your power to do. How many people here train olympic atheletes or go to the top rated nutrition program schools?
Alan Aragon on drinking. Its 3 pages. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti..._alcohol_1

Smoking: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...t515012563 <--this thread has a lot of high rep posters but theres not a lot of scientific data being thrown around. None of them correct this post though, if it was wrong they would have jumped on him. Its pretty redundant to discuss what smoking does to your body.

[Manny]

I'm walking through the uni library maybe two or three years ago and I see the BB.com layout (I got a lot of good advice there when I first started out lifting). I walk past the guy and see that he is posting benching advice. This guy is a fatty manboobed fuck. After that I swore off taking lifting advice from anonymous people online.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Quote:

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

That is the biggest bullshit I've read all day. So you are not gonna take advice from guys like Dorian Yates if his advice goes against 'science' BS from the forums?

[thegmanifesto]

(03-01-2013 03:39 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 04:08 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I appreciate your help. And I am not trying to get combative, but lets recap:

1. You come here saying the health threads on here are crap.

2. I say, fair enough, I still think there is some value to them because we have a unique perspective. But ok, sell me on bodybuilding.com

3. You direct me to a thread that says nothing about what I asked for.

4. I mention that it says nothing about what I asked for.

5. You then say, I need to look it up for myself.

Fair enough, you didn't really sell me on bodybuilding.com for what I was looking for.

I still think our health threads on this forum have merit.

We can disagree on that, and that is ok.

1) Some comments are horrible and wrong, some are not. Roosh recommends starting strength for example which is exactly what BB.com recommends.

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

345) I was going to work and halfassed it, I am not doing searches on BB for anyone else. As I said, if some of the credentials I listed of posters there is not good enough and you rather trust people here then thats well within your power to do. How many people here train olympic atheletes or go to the top rated nutrition program schools?
Alan Aragon on drinking. Its 3 pages. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti..._alcohol_1

Smoking: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...t515012563 <--this thread has a lot of high rep posters but theres not a lot of scientific data being thrown around. None of them correct this post though, if it was wrong they would have jumped on him. Its pretty redundant to discuss what smoking does to your body.

Again, how many of those Olympics Athletes are smoking 3 packs a day, partying every night and swooping mass girls?

Maybe Alberto Tomba? That is the guy I want to here from.

I want to here what that guy is doing for recovery the next morning. What is he doing before he goes out? Is he taking ACV? etc.

So yeah, there is a unique perspective.

That thread you posted I skimmed over. All I saw was a bunch of people bitching and whining. Where is the value?

And that is why our health threads are good.

Why don't you just not read them if you don't like them?

[Jaylow]

(03-01-2013 06:23 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Quote:

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

That is the biggest bullshit I've read all day. So you are not gonna take advice from guys like Dorian Yates if his advice goes against 'science' BS from the forums?

I wouldn't take muscle building science advice from a steroid user since growing muscle by cheating is much different than us regular dudes growing muscle without performance enhancers. A lot of what Yates says goes along with what is said at BB.com anyway.

A lot of people like Yates are trying to sell you something btw. His Blood and Guts series is below newbie level lifting.

[soup]

(03-01-2013 09:55 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 03:39 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 04:08 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I appreciate your help. And I am not trying to get combative, but lets recap:

1. You come here saying the health threads on here are crap.

2. I say, fair enough, I still think there is some value to them because we have a unique perspective. But ok, sell me on bodybuilding.com

3. You direct me to a thread that says nothing about what I asked for.

4. I mention that it says nothing about what I asked for.

5. You then say, I need to look it up for myself.

Fair enough, you didn't really sell me on bodybuilding.com for what I was looking for.

I still think our health threads on this forum have merit.

We can disagree on that, and that is ok.

1) Some comments are horrible and wrong, some are not. Roosh recommends starting strength for example which is exactly what BB.com recommends.

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

345) I was going to work and halfassed it, I am not doing searches on BB for anyone else. As I said, if some of the credentials I listed of posters there is not good enough and you rather trust people here then thats well within your power to do. How many people here train olympic atheletes or go to the top rated nutrition program schools?
Alan Aragon on drinking. Its 3 pages. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti..._alcohol_1

Smoking: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...t515012563 <--this thread has a lot of high rep posters but theres not a lot of scientific data being thrown around. None of them correct this post though, if it was wrong they would have jumped on him. Its pretty redundant to discuss what smoking does to your body.

Again, how many of those Olympics Athletes are smoking 3 packs a day, partying every night and swooping mass girls?

Maybe Alberto Tomba? That is the guy I want to here from.

I want to here what that guy is doing for recovery the next morning. What is he doing before he goes out? Is he taking ACV? etc.

So yeah, there is a unique perspective.

That thread you posted I skimmed over. All I saw was a bunch of people bitching and whining. Where is the value?

And that is why our health threads are good.

Why don't you just not read them if you don't like them?

I drink ACV now because I like the taste, but I really don't feel like it's doing anything.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

(03-02-2013 04:42 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(03-01-2013 06:23 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Quote:

2) There is no such thing as unique perspective there is only right and wrong. I listed some of the credentials that posters on BB have so I will trust them over anyone else.

That is the biggest bullshit I've read all day. So you are not gonna take advice from guys like Dorian Yates if his advice goes against 'science' BS from the forums?

I wouldn't take muscle building science advice from a steroid user since growing muscle by cheating is much different than us regular dudes growing muscle without performance enhancers. A lot of what Yates says goes along with what is said at BB.com anyway.

A lot of people like Yates are trying to sell you something btw. His Blood and Guts series is below newbie level lifting.

You seem to think steroids have more amazing benefits than they really have. Lets take a regular guy who goes on an 8 week cycle and he gains like 10-15 pounds, he's gonna look a bit bigger now. Take the same guy and put him next to a Jay Cutler or Phil Heath. He is gonna look like he never picked up a weight in his entire life! He's gonna look nothing compared to the pros with his 10-15 pound weight gain which includes water. These pro's have gained over 70 pounds of lean muscle in their careers. Take 70 pounds of chicken breast and see what that looks like. You aren't gonna build anything close to that with a 10 week cycle.

Do you know what builds muscle like that? 1500 lb leg presses, 600 pound bench presses, 600 pound squats, tons of sets and reps, eating enough meals so u get the calories and protein in. It all goes together. And a steroid is not gonna make that easier. Steroids are not gonna make that 600 pound squat any easier for you than it's gonna make a 300 pound squat for a natural guy. The drugs allows u to function at a higher level and makes your body a more efficient machine, but it doesn't do the work for you. Some of these guys have been training for 20 years!

At the end of the day, the guy on steroids does the same stuff the natural guy does. He still needs to rest, recover and psyche himself up before a lift, eat, and so on.

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weight." - Ronnie Coleman

[Jaylow]

(03-02-2013 05:50 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

At the end of the day, the guy on steroids does the same stuff the natural guy does. He still needs to rest, recover and psyche himself up before a lift, eat, and so on.

Steroids develop muscle mass differently. Certain performance enhancers speed up recovery. I would rather take my advice from a forum full of dudes that are 220+ lbs who can DL/squat 600+ who knows exactly what I am going through rather than someone who cheated his way there. I respect that Yates had an amazing work ethic and helped pioneer lifting though.