Quote: (03-04-2013 05:21 AM)gadabout Wrote:
Quite right.
My main gripe with Kiev was not necessarily that they were working girls but the fact they were disingenuous. I am sure guys are getting laid in these clubs without directly paying for it, but you can spot these seemingly genuine girls a mile off. After 3 weeks in Kiev I returned to Vodka bar on a wim since i was walking past it. Sure enough there were the same types of guys talking to the same girls that frequent there and similar bars known to tourists. It's a false enterprise. AS long as you know that then fine, but don't think you swooped these girls because of your good looks and witty banter.
try some of the venues I mentioned in another Ukraine Kiev and it is an entirely different ball game.
Quote: (03-03-2013 10:50 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:
Vodka Bar was enjoyable. I have no idea how an 80% figure was reached.
I've spent almost 2 weeks in Scandinavia (Iceland excluded) and got nothing, and it's supposed to be easy there. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt since the individual's looks, style and demeanor factor more than you think. There is no universal pussy paradise.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Your right. I have no way of knowing that 80% of the girls there that night were working but it is fair to say at least the majority of them there that night were and all the ones I talked too were. Simply put on a Sunday night is unlikely many regular girls with jobs or students with a heavy workload would be out late, the regular girls tend to out on Friday and Saturday. Moreover many of the girls I have noticed in the clubs midweek are a semi-pro meaning that they might have a dead end job paying a few hundred dollars a month and although they are "working", with enough game and much booze you might get a ONS without paying for it. I have a had a few. These are girls in the 5-7 range, anything hotter in the 8-9 range you would have to pay for it was what I experienced.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Good observations on all accounts. As a long time veteran (living and working here full time since 1998) I have noticed the game change dramatically. I can point it to 2004 when the so-called "Orange Revolution" put Kiev (Ukraine) on the map. Within 6 months Westerners were no longer required to have Visa's. Made a huge difference, when the flood gates of sex tourists came in, first a trickle, then within 2 years a deluge.
There have always been working girls in clubs, however, there presence was minimal and they were very easy to spot (most simply sat at the bar and drank tea or coffee, never alcohol and would give you a "Top Gun" eye lock that was hard to miss). Now they mingle, drink, dance and even make out with you, wasting precious time. Then when you go in for the pull home, they hit you with a price. Even the one's who don't speak English. It's much murkier nowadays. Many of them don't even call themselves prostitutes. They say they are looking for "sponsors", and believe me there is a fine line between sponsoring a girl, a prostitute and a freebee. For those who don't know Russian, don't live here and don't know the culture, it can be even much more frustrating.
The main difference being if a girl is looking for a sponsor she will generally only choose men whom she is attracted to either physically, financially or both, a prostitute will sleep with anyone for a price, although the price of sponsoring a girl will lower the more she likes or is attracted to you. The reasoning behind sponsoring (in their minds anyway) is that why just sleep with someone even when you are attracted to them, when they will more than likely just use you, not take you out, not take care of you, basically "pump and dump" and not get anything out of it? These girls and the majority of Ukrainian women are looking for LTR. Marriage is like a religion in these parts. Not to say the women aren't loose, like to party, drink etc. and there are freebees out there to be had, but the waters are murky. Most have shitty jobs(if they have one at all) or are students, etc. and things like make up, clothes etc. cost real money....Many women in western countries up until the 1960's were similar, perhaps not as obvious and in more subtle ways, but hey if you haven't noticed, Ukrainians and Russians are quite direct people. We complain about feminism, but we can't have our cake and eat it too.....If anyone has noticed from history, when the era of Mad Men stopped is basically when women's lib, feminism came into the mainstream. People complain about how slutty American women are and how they don't take care of their appearance, etc. Whereas Slav(Russian/Ukrainian, etc.) women are more feminine, care about their appearance and always look good. However, looking good, sexy clothes, make up etc. takes time, effort and costs money guys. These women don't do it for fun or "that's just their culture" BS. They do it for a reason, they all have an agenda. These girls are bigger players (with higher stakes) than any so-called western player can imagine. Most so-called western players are really way out of their league here. Hell most don't even realize that the game is actually being played on them. By the time they realize it, they usually leave with a bad taste in their mouths. It's a different world out here fellas. These girls are all brought up with the goal of getting themselves a husband, have children, or at least someone to take care of them. That's it. Things like "career" are footnotes. We all like and want feminine women, but without the baggage of having to take care of them or LTR, marriage etc. Unfortunately we can't have it both ways. Maybe someday I hope.......
Good luck out there, but as you can see Kiev is no poosy paradise either.......
![[Image: wink.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/wink.gif)
