[BCZalgyris]

Roosh thanks for your answer. I am really looking forward to the 18hour train trip from Kiev > Warsaw and will make sure to write a report on that next month for this form.

DoctorDude, I'm also looking forward to your write-up on night game in Kiev as I will be there on March 15th for a week. If you had to pick
Decadence, D'Lux, Vodka Bar, or Buddha Bar which one would it be...i'm interested in places with favorable ratio's and would prefer one with fewer foreign "sex tourists" and of course logistics to these places from Майдан Независимости (Independence square) as I do not feel like taking taxi's and have an apartment in that area reserved already. Thanks.

[Mersault]

Roosh, go to Palata 6.
It is a midweek student / new professionals type of bar / pub. It's not expensive, in fact it is cheap, typically there is a fair ratio of girls and its location in the city is convenient.
You won't be spending much, you will be able to work some flex and girls go there hoping to chance on bumping into a discerning foreigner. Not the 9's who will rinse you and dump you. This is a bar for 6.5's to 8's, the type who won't be wearing skin tight white on a Tuesday night and love to flirt but the type who will wear tight jeans and a boob tube, or even a blazer, and are after some fun. (Some pre screening - if they are there and single, they like foreign...unlike some of the xenophobic provincial types). Hmmm. What i mean is that most girls who go there know that on any given night there will be 2, 3 or 4 American / European students / lawyers / etc in there, as well as 10x that many natives. The competition is small. Sure, some chicks are taken and they are there with their men for drinks but plenty aren't and they are there looking. It isn't a have a drink, a laugh and go home type of place. It is a have a drink and maybe meet somebody for some fun type of place.

It is off Ulitca Vorovskogo (ул. Воровского) . I'd suggest the two most suitable approaches to the bar / pub are getting there early and working the 'straight from work getting drunk because they are off tomorrow crowd' (7pm) before the music gets louder or the 'get there late and work the cigarette smoking chick outside 'hey, do you have a lighter?' flex. Arriving there in between, if you are to do so solo, means competing against already set tables of social groups and isn't easy.

Alternatively, go to one of the high end Kiev bars which in midweek are Moscow lite and not that suitable for solo game.

ps. It even has very decent food at cheap prices. In Kiev that is hard. Good places tend to be very elitist and the rest tend to be either very low-key (hard to find) or non-existent.

[Roosh]

Final thoughts on Kiev:

Bottom line is the girls were receptive. I went to the mainstream, obvious bar and had nice results meeting girls. The ratios were good, the English was acceptable, and the sex tourists didn't bother me.

Also, a lot of you think those Turks are sex tourists. They're actually residents. My contact told me they trade in fur and gold. Kharkov has the Middle Eastern residents too. The tourists were mostly Western. I met guys from Ireland, Holland, US, and Canada. They were all staying short term.

I'm already thinking of going back to Kiev in a couple months. Last night I met my ideal type of girl and it went nicely. The interaction likely won't go anywhere, but if I can meet that on day 3 in Kiev (on a Monday night, no less) then I'm thinking of what could happen if I stay longer. I also did the absolutely minimum of game, maybe 20 approaches max with almost no day game.

I was about to start learning French, but today I started learning Russian again. I think that says it all.

Lastly, shout out to Doctordude. We hung out for quite a while...cool guy.

[gadabout]

Kiev was definitely the highlight of my eastern europe extravaganza last year. With the negative hype Ukraine was getting I started doubting myself and thought that I just got lucky or something. Been to a stack of places since and nothing has really come close (apart from Moscow, but it was simply to expensive there).
Glad you have changed your views. Language barrier is still problem however.

[Alexander]

Kiev is the best fun in Ukraine, the girls get legless unlike other cities in the country. If you're visiting Ukraine on a short trip, the only cities you should consider are Kiev and Odessa.

Kiev is considerably more expensive than other cities in Ukraine, but it's still cheap if your smart. I know some players who have stayed in 5 Euro hostels in Kiev, but they've pipelined extensively before their visit and made sure the girls have their own place, and they eat from the supermarket or puzata hata.

To live in Kiev is a bit of a stress, ideally you would want to be living near Kreschetik, but that's going to cost you. Otherwise you are reilant on public transport and expensive taxis

Kiev is primarily a city for seasoned players, Betas tend to struggle there and are much better off in more liberal hunting grounds like Poland, Scandinavia etc.

[Greek kamaki]

Most Kiev clubs are far from Kreshatik meaning you have to use taxis no matter where you live.The only way maybe to reduce costs is to call always the same taxi and pay a prearranged amount. The other way is to use girls to do the negotiations for you.

[JohnKreese]

Roosh, are you thinking of amending Bang Ukraine at all in light of the new, albeit time-limited developments?

[BCZalgyris]

Alexander,

Are you basing your comments on facts? Statements like "To live in Kiev is a bit of a stress, ideally you would want to be living near Kreschetik, but that's going to cost you." aren't really true. I have reserved a 2 bedroom apartment in the city center overlooking Maidan Nezalezhnosti (independence square) for under $100 per day. That is cheaper than what I would pay for a 3-star hotel in the same neighborhood. I found other apartments in the vicinity for even cheaper rate, here's a example nice place right on Khreshchatyk St. for only $88/night.
Compare that to other world capital's and their going rates and Kiev is actually not expensive.

[brianmark]

Roosh, what bars did you go to in Kiev? In your previous 3 months in Ukraine, how much time did you spend in Kiev. How did you originally get to Kharkov?

Yes, train game is good, because a lot of Ukrainians are partying on the trains. I took them from Kharkov to Kiev and Kharkov to Odessa, where I had my second girlfriend. I was always working when I went to the other girl's city.

[Alexander]

(02-19-2013 09:50 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

Alexander,

Are you basing your comments on facts? Statements like "To live in Kiev is a bit of a stress, ideally you would want to be living near Kreschetik, but that's going to cost you." aren't really true. I have reserved a 2 bedroom apartment in the city center overlooking Maidan Nezalezhnosti (independence square) for under $100 per day. That is cheaper than what I would pay for a 3-star hotel in the same neighborhood. I found other apartments in the vicinity for even cheaper rate, here's a example nice place right on Khreshchatyk St. for only $88/night.
Compare that to other world capital's and their going rates and Kiev is actually not expensive.

"To live in Kiev is a bit of a stress"

I was referring to living there - a few days accommodation from Airbnb in London, NY, or Moscow isn't going to break the bank too much.

Nice link, I might take him up on that sometime. But as you will notice the price is $2000 per month, the same set up in Kharkov, Dnipro, or other major cities in Ukraine will run at about $700....a third.

[Alexander]

(02-19-2013 06:11 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Most Kiev clubs are far from Kreshatik meaning you have to use taxis no matter where you live.The only way maybe to reduce costs is to call always the same taxi and pay a prearranged amount. The other way is to use girls to do the negotiations for you.

The last time I was in Kiev I didn't venture far from Kreschetik. I concentrated on Vodka Bar, Arena, Mafia Bar(lots of horny bitches in their looking for foreigners), but my best results came from Kreschetik daygame which yields more results than all the clubs put together,

Next time i'm there I want to venture further afield, I heard that "Sorry babushka" is a good place.

[Hotwheels]

Off topic, but what does "krushka" mean. Spelling may be off slightly...

Heard it on Archer several times when Jakov was addressing Malory.

[Mersault]

(02-20-2013 05:43 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Off topic, but what does "krushka" mean. Spelling may be off slightly...

Heard it on Archer several times when Jakov was addressing Malory.

In Russian 'krushka' is a cup or a can. Perhaps you meant 'grushka', which is a pear and, perhaps, might be used as a compliment. The most interesting word along these lines is 'krisha', which is a roof, if taken literally, but in common vernacular it implies 'protection from or protected by those in power' (perhaps mafia). It can also be used as an adjective meaning corrupted. I don't speak Ukrainian but i know in Polish, which Ukrainian is very similar too, 'krutki' means 'briefest or shortest' and the feminine equivalent, in Ukrainian, i'd guess, would be 'krutka'.

So, of any of krushka, grushka, krisha and krutka you have your answer. I anticipate a recommendation. Any less and i might just frown, a little.

ps. What is Archer?

[BCZalgyris]

(02-20-2013 05:40 PM)Alexander Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 06:11 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Most Kiev clubs are far from Kreshatik meaning you have to use taxis no matter where you live.The only way maybe to reduce costs is to call always the same taxi and pay a prearranged amount. The other way is to use girls to do the negotiations for you.

The last time I was in Kiev I didn't venture far from Kreschetik. I concentrated on Vodka Bar, Arena, Mafia Bar(lots of horny bitches in their looking for foreigners), but my best results came from Kreschetik daygame which yields more results than all the clubs put together,

Next time i'm there I want to venture further afield, I heard that "Sorry babushka" is a good place.

Sorry Babushka mentions "face control" on their site. Do you know how these clubs perceive foreigners, especially minorities? I am going to Kiev in March with a friend whose African, and even though he's a classy guy and practices "the GManifesto suite game" I wonder if he might get rejected at the door by some of the bouncers? What do you guys think? On a related note, do any of the clubs play hip-hop and cater to a 21+ crowd? Thanks.

[Mersault]

(02-20-2013 09:00 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

Sorry Babushka mentions "face control" on their site. Do you know how these clubs perceive foreigners, especially minorities? I am going to Kiev in March with a friend whose African, and even though he's a classy guy and practices "the GManifesto suite game" I wonder if he might get rejected at the door by some of the bouncers? What do you guys think? On a related note, do any of the clubs play hip-hop and cater to a 21+ crowd? Thanks.

Your African friend (unless he is white-ish North African, then it is less of an issue) might well not be allowed in, unless he suggests, by his clothing, that he is likely to be a spender. Ways around it? Book a table. Dress well. Pull a gun. As for hip hop, no. You will hear the odd native (and Russian) language hip hop and some chart standard hip hop (Jay-Z, Lil Wayne or whatever) but nothing more.

[Hotwheels]

(02-20-2013 08:27 PM)Mersault Wrote:  

(02-20-2013 05:43 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Off topic, but what does "krushka" mean. Spelling may be off slightly...

Heard it on Archer several times when Jakov was addressing Malory.

In Russian 'krushka' is a cup or a can. Perhaps you meant 'grushka', which is a pear and, perhaps, might be used as a compliment. The most interesting word along these lines is 'krisha', which is a roof, if taken literally, but in common vernacular it implies 'protection from or protected by those in power' (perhaps mafia). It can also be used as an adjective meaning corrupted. I don't speak Ukrainian but i know in Polish, which Ukrainian is very similar too, 'krutki' means 'briefest or shortest' and the feminine equivalent, in Ukrainian, i'd guess, would be 'krutka'.

So, of any of krushka, grushka, krisha and krutka you have your answer. I anticipate a recommendation. Any less and i might just frown, a little.

ps. What is Archer?

He must be saying grushka as it's a "term of endearment". I could/would substitute "babe" in the same sentence for instance.

Looked briefly but I couldn't find a clip of Nikolai Jakov addressing Malory Archer on youtube.

As far as what Archer is, go here;
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17061....ght=Archer

*It's the best show on TV you are not watching.*

[/endthreadhijack]

[Fujiwara]

Thread has me excited. I'll literally be just passing through Kiev sometime in June... it'd be good to link up with anyone there.

[Tenerife]

Roosh, it's funny how your entire outlook on the FSU has changed from just a few days in kiev. In the reddit ama, you were saying how you had only a distant interest in the further east and wanted to stick to central europe.

[Pierre]

Yes from what i've read, the RVF Ukraine index is something like this.

2011: "Pussy paradise!"
2012: "Don't go there, you must know Russian, they're racist." Call out members who like it.
"If you are successful in Ukraine you are doing P4P"
2013: Fuck Yeah, this place rules!!

[Dantes]

(02-18-2013 10:25 AM)Doctordude Wrote:  

(02-17-2013 08:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm in Kiev right now. My first night out was so different than Kharkov that I wanted to share my impressions:

- Girls speak English here. One night in Kiev I met more semi-fluent English speakers than three months in Kharkov. I didn't have to speak any Russian last night, but in Kharkov I had to game in Russian from my first approach.

- Girls were giving me massive eye contact. It was sustained. I rarely got this in Kharkov. (Actually right now in the coffee shop the waitress is gawking at me.)

- Having a solid backstory (like I described in Bang Ukraine) can make or break the interaction. The tv show I'm going on gave me a media handler and he would explain to the girls the situation. The girls would ask for proof and he would show his press card and I would show my American passport and it was on. Once the backstory was executed, the approach was for me to lose... but...

- Even without the wingman, I was still getting good vibes. He left early and I was in the club alone, ready for brutality, but even with a now weaker backstory (I didn't have proof) and being solo, I was getting good vibes. It would have been an easy 2 or 3 numbers to play with if I was staying.

- The sex tourist issue is moderately bad. Yeah, there were a lot of shady turks and other foreigners, but it wasn't hard to blow them out of the water. Most of them looked like bums and had no game. Unlike in Riga, I didn't feel immediately discriminated against because of my appearance, where no amount of game could overcome their negative view of foreigners.

- Being an American (and being able to prove it, lol) got a way better response last night than in Kharkov. You'd think it would be the opposite, but in Kharkov it seemed like they didn't care as much.

- Some girls were getting plastered. You don't see that much in Kharkov where girls keep it together if they're not with guys.

My instinct for those of you who read Bang Ukraine is that if you go to Kiev, it will be easier than what I describe in the book.

I am in Kiev now. I had plans of going to the DR but decided to push that back until April. I arrived in Kiev on Saturday and I am only staying for one week. Roosh, send me a message if you want to meet up tonight. I wanted to come for a week to see if it is a city to invest more time in. I am thinking one month in the summer. My initial impressions are congruent with Roosh and the other posts on this thread. I will write a more detailed post at the week end.

I met a 20 year old, self-described student and model from Kherson. I met her on Ukrainedate. We skyped for about 6 weeks and she took the 12 hour train to meet me and waited for me all day in the airport. I have not closed the deal with her. I have never spent so much time with a girl, especially foreign on a quasi-vacation and not gotten laid. She is not staying in my apartment.

I have been with this girl for the most part but I have had some time to venture out alone and I will have more time because she is leaving tomorrow. I went to Delux 1 am on Saturday night....insane talent. Lots of 8s and 9s. Despite the cold weather, I am getting lots of eye contact, even being bundled up. i think this place in the summer can be off the hook for daygame as well as night game. I have some interesting stories to report but will do so after the week is up. So far, I am thinking this will be a good place to set up shop for a month in the summer. More to come soon....

Kiev impressions continued....

My one-week in Kiev is just about over. Like most places, one week just isn't enough. My impressions should be taken into the context of a short duration of stay. Ukraine/Russia has always been a bit of a mystery for me and after one week, I still feel like it is a bit of an enigma. I don’t quite understand the rules. Whereas in South American, I felt like I caught on quickly.

I rented an apartment close to Independence Square, which is where you want to be. Taxis will be a rip-off if you don’t speak Russian. You will pay 2x-3x more than the customary price. To reduce the cost, have a Ukrainian call a taxi service for you or make an arrangement with one driver. Even still there can be problems. I had a girl arrange a taxi for me, which cost 21 hryvnia, and the driver ended up charging me 79 hryvnia because he “spoke English.” You can definitely get them down on price but being that it was 2 am and I was alone on my 3rd day, I paid. Unless, you go to Vodka Bar or Buddha Bar from Independence Square, you will need to take a taxi

As for the city, Kiev is beautiful with interesting architecture. It is not cheap but less expensive then most European capitals. Most people speak at least basic English. I would say almost everyone under 25 speaks English. The food isn’t great. It has less choices than most other European capitals. However, the Sushi is pretty good. I am not a fan of Ukrainian/Russian food.

I felt relatively safe. However, the police are corrupt and looking for an easy buck. I was stopped one night in Independence Square and asked for my passport by two cops. I was told that I was under arrest for not having my passport and needed to come to the police station to pay 1000 hryvnia. These guys seemed more nervous than I was. They were probably in their early 20s and I knew exactly what the deal was-some quick cash from a tourist. I ended up paying 200 hryvnia. I will be more prepared for this situation in the future.

I used Kiev Rent Apartments which you can book on Expedia. I paid around 60 dollars per night for a good size one bedroom. The apartment building and entrance looked seedy but inside the place was clean and nice. It was about a 5-minute walk to Independence Square. Most of the cafes had English menus. I suggest La Cantina, open 24/7 for Mexican-Italian food. Also, good breakfast. If you like vegetarian/organic food, there is a place across the street which is very good. Lots of coffee shops.

As for Touristy stuff, I did a great walking tour of the city. Even though it was cold, it was well worth it. The tour was free but you are expected to tip. I arranged a private tour with the same guide to the World War II museum. The guide spoken fluent English and was very knowledgeable. She was also very helpful in understanding Ukrainian culture and women. I would recommend her. Send me a PM if you are interested in scheduling a tour with her.

As for girls, I spend most of the first part of the trip with one girl that I met online. The rest of my time, I focused on internet dating, night game and a bit of day game. All three options are good, which makes Kiev a great place to meet women, especially if you don’t speak Russian. I found girls were very interested in why I was in Kiev. I felt like I was being cross-examined but not necessarily labeled as a sex tourist.

The best girls in this city are to be found through social circles, which for most of us is not realistic unless you invest more time. Day game will provide the best opportunity to meet “normal” beautiful women. Due to the cold and being with other girls, I had limited time for day game. But I saw the potential. Girls make solid eye contact. It is different than Colombia for example, where a girl will eye fuck you. There seems to be a curiosity in their gaze. I only did about ten approaches during the day, but I think both Indirect and Direct can be effective. Asking for directions seems the easiest and most natural. I met one a girl in a coffee shop through Indirect and made a date the following day. I did two direct approaches, similar to Krauser style and one girl complimented me on my courage and asked me for my information. If I return, Day Game will be my focus. Independence Square is ideal for this. The shopping mall underneath is good as well. Also check out the Modern Art Exhibit right next to Arena. It is free… good for day game and also a date.

I met a few girls from online dating. As I mentioned, I spent a lot of time with one in particular. All were pretty, sweet and intelligent. The girls I met were all looking for something serious.

Most of you will focus on night game, although if you have a few weeks or more, I would advise day game on the streets, metro and coffee shops.

My nightlife experiences were mixed. Nightclubs go in and out of favor depending if they allow smoking which is illegal technically but the owners bribe officials.

The popular nightclubs now are Vodka Bar, Buddha Bar, Delux, Shooters, and Decadence. There are others that I did not go to or gather too much information. All of these places have hard-core pros, semi pros. And good old fashion gold-diggers. I met the biggest gold digger of my life in Kiev. In fact, it is comical. I will share the story another time.

There are some nice “normal” girls as well. For example, Roosh met a pretty, girl next-door type. If a girl goes to one of these places more than 2x per month, I would be suspicious. For most normal girls, it is a big night out for a nightclub. Most of the cool normal girls I met love Karaoke bars. I went to one with a girl I met online. Most people are sitting in groups at a table so I wouldn’t advise going to pick up.

Decadence: good on Friday and Saturday. I have never seen so many 8s and 9s in my life except some clubs in Miami. You will see some legit models here. But as mentioned there are lots of pros. It is easy to spot, as they are very direct in their solicitation. I think picking up here is difficult, especially solo. Better to bring wing if you have one. Solo foreigners may come across as sex tourists in the high-end clubs.

Vodka Bar: central location. You can smoke there which makes it popular now. A mix of pros and normal girls. It is the only place happening on Monday night.

Shooters: 3 floors: a disco, restaurant and lounge downstairs with couches. You can smoke in the lounge and disco. It is open 24 hours, apparently. You need to go on Wednesday night for ladies night. Door for the discos opens at 12 for guys. Girls will already be there, as they get in free before 12. This a good place to pick- up. I was with a date and was approached twice but cute girls.

Buddha Bar is an upscale restaurant. After dinner hours, it turns into a lounge/bar. Lots of pros. I would not invest much time here.

Divan Bar: is a good place to grab a drink before heading to Arena which has Decadence and Skybar. Decadence is popular now but I didn’t go.

Overall, there are possibilities of meeting normal girls at bars, but I think ONS are difficult. Rolling with a wing is better and a little social validation is goes a long way.

One interesting thing about these clubs…I saw so many beautiful women being turned away from clubs. They have strong face control and if a women isn’t dressed well enough or if they don’t like her look, the girl won’t get in. Saturday night at Delux I saw 4 gorgeous women standing outside demoralized because they could not get in. Men have no trouble and there is usually a cover. Delux is about 25 bucks. I saw several cute girls get turned away at shooters. A girl won’t get turned away if she is with a guy, especially a foreigner. It was so interesting to see the roles reversed coming from NYC. I am sure one of you ambitious guys out there can come up with a method for Gaming girls who can’t get into clubs.

Overall, the women are beautiful, sexy and feminine. I found them to be intelligent, cultured and wordily. Establishing a mental connection with them is important. I don’t see them as being swayed by emotions and by in the moment lust as their Latina counterparts. A female friend explained that they are looking for either 1) money or 2) a long-term relationship. I wouldn’t expect to clean up for one-nighters here. Instead, if you want to meet a beautiful, cultured, and intelligent girl for a relationship, it is a good place to set up shop. I think ONS are possible with normal girls but not the norm. The women want to see dividends for their investment in time, emotions and body. For a normal girl, it will be a relationship.

I am giving serious consideration to returning for a month, maybe combining it with a Poland trip.

[Alexander]

Nice feedback Doctordude, i'm sure a lot of what you said rings true with a lot of people here that have been there.

Though I would say, I didn't think spoken English was as high as you think, I would say 50% of under 25's speak some English, and maybe less than 20% are fluent.

I would say that Ukrainian girls are fairly intelligent, but I would not consider them wordly or cultural, especially in comparison to other Eastern/South Eastern European countries. This is clear to see on their VK profiles with photo albums littered with Kitsch art, and their music lists full of cheesy pop music

Yes you can sometimes meet a "nice girl" who just happens to be in Vodka Bar for "the first time", but then you are likely to see her again the next day too.

Yes Kiev is not a place for one-night stands generally, it's usually the average looking girls that you can convert, but who wants average when you are travelling to Ukraine, you can get that in London much easier.

I will refer to your info on clubs for my next trip

Thanks

[GameTheory]

(02-23-2013 03:13 PM)Doctordude Wrote:  

(02-18-2013 10:25 AM)Doctordude Wrote:  

(02-17-2013 08:32 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm in Kiev right now. My first night out was so different than Kharkov that I wanted to share my impressions:

- Girls speak English here. One night in Kiev I met more semi-fluent English speakers than three months in Kharkov. I didn't have to speak any Russian last night, but in Kharkov I had to game in Russian from my first approach.

- Girls were giving me massive eye contact. It was sustained. I rarely got this in Kharkov. (Actually right now in the coffee shop the waitress is gawking at me.)

- Having a solid backstory (like I described in Bang Ukraine) can make or break the interaction. The tv show I'm going on gave me a media handler and he would explain to the girls the situation. The girls would ask for proof and he would show his press card and I would show my American passport and it was on. Once the backstory was executed, the approach was for me to lose... but...

- Even without the wingman, I was still getting good vibes. He left early and I was in the club alone, ready for brutality, but even with a now weaker backstory (I didn't have proof) and being solo, I was getting good vibes. It would have been an easy 2 or 3 numbers to play with if I was staying.

- The sex tourist issue is moderately bad. Yeah, there were a lot of shady turks and other foreigners, but it wasn't hard to blow them out of the water. Most of them looked like bums and had no game. Unlike in Riga, I didn't feel immediately discriminated against because of my appearance, where no amount of game could overcome their negative view of foreigners.

- Being an American (and being able to prove it, lol) got a way better response last night than in Kharkov. You'd think it would be the opposite, but in Kharkov it seemed like they didn't care as much.

- Some girls were getting plastered. You don't see that much in Kharkov where girls keep it together if they're not with guys.

My instinct for those of you who read Bang Ukraine is that if you go to Kiev, it will be easier than what I describe in the book.

I am in Kiev now. I had plans of going to the DR but decided to push that back until April. I arrived in Kiev on Saturday and I am only staying for one week. Roosh, send me a message if you want to meet up tonight. I wanted to come for a week to see if it is a city to invest more time in. I am thinking one month in the summer. My initial impressions are congruent with Roosh and the other posts on this thread. I will write a more detailed post at the week end.

I met a 20 year old, self-described student and model from Kherson. I met her on Ukrainedate. We skyped for about 6 weeks and she took the 12 hour train to meet me and waited for me all day in the airport. I have not closed the deal with her. I have never spent so much time with a girl, especially foreign on a quasi-vacation and not gotten laid. She is not staying in my apartment.

I have been with this girl for the most part but I have had some time to venture out alone and I will have more time because she is leaving tomorrow. I went to Delux 1 am on Saturday night....insane talent. Lots of 8s and 9s. Despite the cold weather, I am getting lots of eye contact, even being bundled up. i think this place in the summer can be off the hook for daygame as well as night game. I have some interesting stories to report but will do so after the week is up. So far, I am thinking this will be a good place to set up shop for a month in the summer. More to come soon....

Kiev impressions continued....

My one-week in Kiev is just about over. Like most places, one week just isn't enough. My impressions should be taken into the context of a short duration of stay. Ukraine/Russia has always been a bit of a mystery for me and after one week, I still feel like it is a bit of an enigma. I don’t quite understand the rules. Whereas in South American, I felt like I caught on quickly.

I rented an apartment close to Independence Square, which is where you want to be. Taxis will be a rip-off if you don’t speak Russian. You will pay 2x-3x more than the customary price. To reduce the cost, have a Ukrainian call a taxi service for you or make an arrangement with one driver. Even still there can be problems. I had a girl arrange a taxi for me, which cost 21 hryvnia, and the driver ended up charging me 79 hryvnia because he “spoke English.” You can definitely get them down on price but being that it was 2 am and I was alone on my 3rd day, I paid. Unless, you go to Vodka Bar or Buddha Bar from Independence Square, you will need to take a taxi

As for the city, Kiev is beautiful with interesting architecture. It is not cheap but less expensive then most European capitals. Most people speak at least basic English. I would say almost everyone under 25 speaks English. The food isn’t great. It has less choices than most other European capitals. However, the Sushi is pretty good. I am not a fan of Ukrainian/Russian food.

I felt relatively safe. However, the police are corrupt and looking for an easy buck. I was stopped one night in Independence Square and asked for my passport by two cops. I was told that I was under arrest for not having my passport and needed to come to the police station to pay 1000 hryvnia. These guys seemed more nervous than I was. They were probably in their early 20s and I knew exactly what the deal was-some quick cash from a tourist. I ended up paying 200 hryvnia. I will be more prepared for this situation in the future.

I used Kiev Rent Apartments which you can book on Expedia. I paid around 60 dollars per night for a good size one bedroom. The apartment building and entrance looked seedy but inside the place was clean and nice. It was about a 5-minute walk to Independence Square. Most of the cafes had English menus. I suggest La Cantina, open 24/7 for Mexican-Italian food. Also, good breakfast. If you like vegetarian/organic food, there is a place across the street which is very good. Lots of coffee shops.

As for Touristy stuff, I did a great walking tour of the city. Even though it was cold, it was well worth it. The tour was free but you are expected to tip. I arranged a private tour with the same guide to the World War II museum. The guide spoken fluent English and was very knowledgeable. She was also very helpful in understanding Ukrainian culture and women. I would recommend her. Send me a PM if you are interested in scheduling a tour with her.

As for girls, I spend most of the first part of the trip with one girl that I met online. The rest of my time, I focused on internet dating, night game and a bit of day game. All three options are good, which makes Kiev a great place to meet women, especially if you don’t speak Russian. I found girls were very interested in why I was in Kiev. I felt like I was being cross-examined but not necessarily labeled as a sex tourist.

The best girls in this city are to be found through social circles, which for most of us is not realistic unless you invest more time. Day game will provide the best opportunity to meet “normal” beautiful women. Due to the cold and being with other girls, I had limited time for day game. But I saw the potential. Girls make solid eye contact. It is different than Colombia for example, where a girl will eye fuck you. There seems to be a curiosity in their gaze. I only did about ten approaches during the day, but I think both Indirect and Direct can be effective. Asking for directions seems the easiest and most natural. I met one a girl in a coffee shop through Indirect and made a date the following day. I did two direct approaches, similar to Krauser style and one girl complimented me on my courage and asked me for my information. If I return, Day Game will be my focus. Independence Square is ideal for this. The shopping mall underneath is good as well. Also check out the Modern Art Exhibit right next to Arena. It is free… good for day game and also a date.

I met a few girls from online dating. As I mentioned, I spent a lot of time with one in particular. All were pretty, sweet and intelligent. The girls I met were all looking for something serious.

Most of you will focus on night game, although if you have a few weeks or more, I would advise day game on the streets, metro and coffee shops.

My nightlife experiences were mixed. Nightclubs go in and out of favor depending if they allow smoking which is illegal technically but the owners bribe officials.

The popular nightclubs now are Vodka Bar, Buddha Bar, Delux, Shooters, and Decadence. There are others that I did not go to or gather too much information. All of these places have hard-core pros, semi pros. And good old fashion gold-diggers. I met the biggest gold digger of my life in Kiev. In fact, it is comical. I will share the story another time.

There are some nice “normal” girls as well. For example, Roosh met a pretty, girl next-door type. If a girl goes to one of these places more than 2x per month, I would be suspicious. For most normal girls, it is a big night out for a nightclub. Most of the cool normal girls I met love Karaoke bars. I went to one with a girl I met online. Most people are sitting in groups at a table so I wouldn’t advise going to pick up.

Decadence: good on Friday and Saturday. I have never seen so many 8s and 9s in my life except some clubs in Miami. You will see some legit models here. But as mentioned there are lots of pros. It is easy to spot, as they are very direct in their solicitation. I think picking up here is difficult, especially solo. Better to bring wing if you have one. Solo foreigners may come across as sex tourists in the high-end clubs.

Vodka Bar: central location. You can smoke there which makes it popular now. A mix of pros and normal girls. It is the only place happening on Monday night.

Shooters: 3 floors: a disco, restaurant and lounge downstairs with couches. You can smoke in the lounge and disco. It is open 24 hours, apparently. You need to go on Wednesday night for ladies night. Door for the discos opens at 12 for guys. Girls will already be there, as they get in free before 12. This a good place to pick- up. I was with a date and was approached twice but cute girls.

Buddha Bar is an upscale restaurant. After dinner hours, it turns into a lounge/bar. Lots of pros. I would not invest much time here.

Divan Bar: is a good place to grab a drink before heading to Arena which has Decadence and Skybar. Decadence is popular now but I didn’t go.

Overall, there are possibilities of meeting normal girls at bars, but I think ONS are difficult. Rolling with a wing is better and a little social validation is goes a long way.

One interesting thing about these clubs…I saw so many beautiful women being turned away from clubs. They have strong face control and if a women isn’t dressed well enough or if they don’t like her look, the girl won’t get in. Saturday night at Delux I saw 4 gorgeous women standing outside demoralized because they could not get in. Men have no trouble and there is usually a cover. Delux is about 25 bucks. I saw several cute girls get turned away at shooters. A girl won’t get turned away if she is with a guy, especially a foreigner. It was so interesting to see the roles reversed coming from NYC. I am sure one of you ambitious guys out there can come up with a method for Gaming girls who can’t get into clubs.

Overall, the women are beautiful, sexy and feminine. I found them to be intelligent, cultured and wordily. Establishing a mental connection with them is important. I don’t see them as being swayed by emotions and by in the moment lust as their Latina counterparts. A female friend explained that they are looking for either 1) money or 2) a long-term relationship. I wouldn’t expect to clean up for one-nighters here. Instead, if you want to meet a beautiful, cultured, and intelligent girl for a relationship, it is a good place to set up shop. I think ONS are possible with normal girls but not the norm. The women want to see dividends for their investment in time, emotions and body. For a normal girl, it will be a relationship.

I am giving serious consideration to returning for a month, maybe combining it with a Poland trip.

+1 and a big Bingo !

[Alexander]

(02-18-2013 02:49 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

Roosh thanks for your answer. I am really looking forward to the 18hour train trip from Kiev > Warsaw and will make sure to write a report on that next month for this form.

DoctorDude, I'm also looking forward to your write-up on night game in Kiev as I will be there on March 15th for a week. If you had to pick
Decadence, D'Lux, Vodka Bar, or Buddha Bar which one would it be...i'm interested in places with favorable ratio's and would prefer one with fewer foreign "sex tourists" and of course logistics to these places from Майдан Независимости (Independence square) as I do not feel like taking taxi's and have an apartment in that area reserved already. Thanks.

I wouldn't get too excited about "Train game" remember SNL is not all that common in Ukraine, and getting it on a train, whether she is drunk or sober is even harder.

If you have a group of girls drinking then it can be easier, for example some young girls going to Odessa from Kiev for holiday. If you only have a sweaty guy called Oleg in your sleeping berth then you will have to prowl the train looking for girls, this will naturally arouse suspicion from all on board, you could be a thief or a sex attacker.

It's not as if you can choose your berth either, you have preassigned bed numbers.

So, I estimate your chance of train sex to be 10% or less, better off masturbating and having a sound sleep so your ready for you're destination

[Roosh]

So one week after Kiev, I've gone back to studying French instead of Russian.

Kiev put me on a big high, but the buzz of seeing that beauty wore out. I get a been-there-done-that feeling with Ukraine. I don't know.

[Greek kamaki]

Russian is completely essential in my opinion.However it is a rather difficult language made for slavic brains meaning it is the kiss of death for certain employments simple knowledge of it can make you look suspicious.
Guys with the intellectual capability to learn Russian out of Russia are not allowed by the society to do so.
Better to learn polish for which noone is bothered except the Germans.