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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 08:55 AM
I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.
However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?
If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?
(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)
I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.
Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 09:19 AM
I usually use rejection as a motivator. Once I get that first rejection, I approach like crazy until I get what I want and this happens in all aspects of my life. Whenever someone tells me I can't do something or I get rejected for a job, etc.
The other day I watched again a video of Mystery talking about the Mystery Method, and he said that he will feel nervous every time before an approach, because he knows he will approach a hot girl as soon as she enters the room -This saying that even the most experienced players still get nervous-. You just accept this paralysing reflex and move forward.
I just think being desensitized is just lowering the importance of a feeling that might be harmful in approach. Not blocking it away permanently.
Part of the process is that as soon as you start getting success you will get more used to it and tend to the -I don't give a fuck- state of mind that will eventually get you better results in life / game / etc.
I don't think you loose something of your humanity, on the contrary, you get should get the impulse to try new things, learn and get the experience, enriching your life because you are pushing yourself through uncomfortable situations.
Of course whenever you start getting more success you get used to it. I remember I was always happy to be able to approach a girl, now I do it more naturally and I can move to other stages of game, try new things.
Same with work, I used to get pretty excited every time I got a new client or project, but now, I just take it as it is, the high is more intense but shorter, but then again, I just know that I'm doing well and it is a feeling that adds up to my whole experience as a person, and not just on a particular moment, or situation.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 09:19 AM
Find a balance. Being rejected can still be disappointing but you will be able to deal with it much better than the average dude who will pine for an unattainable girl for months instead of just finding another one.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 11:22 AM
I still feel rejection, but don't give a fuck. It feels no different coming from a girl or prospective job. Understand why it happened, calibrate, and push forward.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 12:56 PM
Back to your question.
Ultimately, the hope is that while desensitization means you enjoy things less than you otherwise might you will have more joy because it allows you to triumph in the face of greater adversity - more often and with greater results.
To say nothing of the benefits of being a hard ass motherfucker.
If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It's the only good fight there is.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 01:05 PM
It comes down to not giving a fuck. Set your baseline appropriately. Rejection from a girl is nothing. Don't sweat the small stuff.
Quote:Quote:
When things in your life seem almost too much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar and the 2 Beers.
A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, he wordlessly picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.
The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.
The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full.. The students responded with a unanimous ‘yes.’
The professor then produced two Beers from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar effectively filling the empty space between the sand.The students laughed..
‘Now,’ said the professor as the laughter subsided, ‘I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things—-your family, your children, your health, your friends and your favorite passions—-and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house and your car.. The sand is everything else—-the small stuff.
‘If you put the sand into the jar first,’ he continued, ‘there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life.
If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff you will never have room for the things that are important to you.
Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.
Spend time with your children. Spend time with your parents. Visit with grandparents. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and mow the lawn.
Take care of the golf balls first—-the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.
One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the Beer represented. The professor smiled and said, ‘I’m glad you asked.’ The Beer just shows you that no matter how full your life may seem, there’s always room for a couple of Beers with a friend.
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02-12-2013, 02:11 PM
OP, you are conceptualizing the issue in too much of a black/white manner- that a man has to be either overly sensitive or have no feelings at all regarding girls.
The correct method is simply to make yourself less sensitive to anxiety and rejection because being overly sensitive will lead to a failure to act, improper responses. and emotional turmoil. In a previous life, if a girl rejected me, it would not only ruin my day, it would ruin my week and maybe my month. I rarely approached girls because the pain of rejection was too unpleasant.
Now, through improving my Inner Game and lots of practice of approaching and dating, my emotional state no longer cockblocks me. I'm not a robot- if I get blown out on an approach or a girl flakes or won't give me a second date, it bothers me for maybe five minutes, then I'm ready to move on. And the sting is a lot less, more like a gnat bite, a minor annoyance, not a threat to my self esteem. I can think of two instances in the last few months when I had an unsuccessful date with a girl and immediately went to a bar, picked up and girl, and banged her that night.
Another solution to managing your emotions is dealing with what the Buddhists call "attachment." The ordinary person feels that they ARE their emotions, become fully invested in them, and allow their emotions to control them. But you aren't your emotions-emotions are transitory states and you have the power to either identify with them or to regard them as just a passing creation of your mind. The next time you're feeling nervous before an approach or a little upset after a rejection, remember that these feelings are your mind reacting to a certain stimulus and just let it pass without clinging to it.
"If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there!- Captain Ron
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 02:17 PM
Rephrasing it helps. Instead of rejection being a negative state and success a positive state, assume that rejection is normal and do not take it personally. Your new "zero" is now being rejected instead of not approaching at all out of fear. If the rejection does not occur you are in positive territory, otherwise at a neutral baseline of zero.
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02-12-2013, 02:51 PM
To me it's as simple as the understanding that some girls will like me and some won't. And percentages of interested/disinterested ones depend on different circumstances. So basically I'm just ready and kind of like "yup! here it is haha.."
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Interesting question..
Does not caring about rejection mean that I can't enjoy positive responses from women???
Does "de-sensitizing" myself to girls who don't like me, mean that I can't enjoy girls who do like me???
Absolutely not! Ignoring negative emotions does not mean that we can't enjoy positive emotions! I don't care about a girl rejecting me but it still feels great when a cute girl accepts me.
I simply "re-frame" the negative experiences into learning experiences.
If live gives you lemons. make lemonade!
Some girls like me, some girls don't. It's not worth getting all emotionally invested into each one.
Desensitize yourself to pain but still allow yourself to enjoy pleasure. It's not that hard!
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 03:28 PM
Ive found that a lot of rejections are so subtle that you dont even really have a chance to feel that bad about them. Most classy girls are not going to outright humiliate you or embarrass you for the sake of. However, Im a passionate and somewhat sensitive person by nature and I can remember some of the more harsh rejections through the years and some of them still make me feel kind of down if I dwell on them. But at the same time, I can remember some of the most uplifting compliments coming from girls that have stayed with me for life. Ive had a girl tell another that I was trying to pull that "...he's beautiful". Hearing that made my day and has always stuck with me. Ive had a girl that was trying to be my lady and actually get pregnant by me tell me "....I mean, your perfect". Ive asked a girl what it was about me that made her attracted to me and she complimented me from head to toe in such a thorough way that I was almost floored. Ive gone to parties and could just feel all eyes on me. Moments like that have always stuck with me. Ive had girls give me indirect compliments by saying stuff like "I cant believe you dont have a Valentines...you have the swag of someone that would probably have a lot." or "you know what, you seem like the type thats only into video girls and shit". Ive remembered stuff like that to remind myself that I am attractive and to help cope with rejections when they do happen.
Every woman in life is not going to be attracted to you. Its just a fact. Finding out explicitly that one particular girl is not attracted to you is just finding out the truth. Whether or not you ever approached her to find out that harsh reality is not going to change the fact that your not her cup of tea. You were just man enough to find out the truth and it didnt kill you.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-12-2013, 06:36 PM
Quote: (02-12-2013 08:55 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:
I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.
However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?
If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?
(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)
I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.
Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.
Desensitization is a natural product of giving women a realistic (low) valuation. And it is the recipe for a much richer life than someone who puts pussy on a pedestal.
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02-13-2013, 06:59 AM
@ Lemmo - So you give all women a low valuation. If she's negative towards you, you've lost next to nothing. If she's positive towards you, you've gained next to nothing. Or does her 'yes' magically raise her value? So her value is dependent on how she evaluates you? I feel there's some kind of trap there, but I can't quite locate it.
(I know putting pussy on a pedestal is a grave error.)
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-15-2013, 07:48 AM
Assume low value in general, looking for "nuggets of exceptional quality". If she rejects, say "why did I expect any different". If she does not reject consider her one of the few valuable girls left.
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02-15-2013, 01:36 PM
Quote: (02-13-2013 06:59 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:
@ Lemmo - So you give all women a low valuation. If she's negative towards you, you've lost next to nothing. If she's positive towards you, you've gained next to nothing. Or does her 'yes' magically raise her value? So her value is dependent on how she evaluates you? I feel there's some kind of trap there, but I can't quite locate it.
(I know putting pussy on a pedestal is a grave error.)
No, a "yes" won't magically raise her value. She is a big dumb animal regardless. A "yes" only increases her value to the extent it makes our interactions more pleasant. For example, I value a smart, pleasant dog more than one those small, loud obnoxious breeds. But ultimately a dog is a dog. I don't rearrange my life for it and I move on once I cease to be amused by it.
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Desensitization - two edged sword?
02-18-2013, 04:00 PM
Quote: (02-12-2013 08:55 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:
I've seen a number of senior members advising a noob that he needs to desensitize himself to rejection. Of course, I see the logic behind that because rejection is sometimes painful and can be demotivating.
However, is it not true that anything that gives us pleasure can also give us pain (by withdrawing or denying the pleasure)? How is it possible to desensitize oneself to pain without also becoming desensitized to pleasure?
If a woman's harsh rejection truly means nothing to you, then why should her rapt approval mean anything? If neither means anything, then maybe you've lost something of your humanity?
(And if you put rejection all on the other person, as in "Never take it personally - it's just HER problem", then how can you accept the credit for success when she opens up to your advances?)
I think it's more humane to yourself to accept that rejection will happen and sometimes it will hurt, but you know you will bounce back because you're a great guy and no stranger is in any position to judge you because they don't know you.
Desensitization, taken to an extreme, borders on sociopathic - you win battles against people who neither know nor care about you, but you lose the war for living a rich, hearty life.
I've spent plenty of time debating and trying to sort this out with myself.
It can take time to develop, but learning more about why they are rejecting you (this goes for both men and women) can allow you to see it as not being about you. I have also thought a lot about why I rejected women. I have rudely blown off many women who approached me due to my own shyness that has greatly decreased. But I still do catch myself doing it at times. It helped to realize that they also might be doing the same. I think the rudeness was my way of not looking shy.
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02-18-2013, 08:32 PM
Depends on what you're looking for. Most of us want something to stick our dick in.