[BIGINJAPAN]

Classic. The government interferes in education, creates programs for the poor. Then leads to student loan bubble. Bubble starting to pop, leaves institutions no alternative but to sue their students.

Classic Heglian dialectic synthesis.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2013...-poor.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-05...n-students

I smell bailout coming.

[NYJ]

Don't necessarily choose to forgo college entirely, choose where you can get the most for your money. For example whilst working full-time and living at home I go to a community college. The one I go to has a partnership with Rutgers. The average cost per credit hour at Rutgers for an NJ resident is $333(It's over double for someone out of state). At the community college I go to as an in county resident, the cost per credit hour is only $115. This has allowed me to pay it off with having to accrue any interest. With my final 2 years, I'll probably take on some debt, but by my estimates it'll be well under $25k. I knew people coming out of school with $50-100K worth of debt not including interest.

[Nonpareil]

At the rate that the value of a college degree is declining while prices are rising, correlated with the increasing amount of women attending and the sharp uptick in female sluttiness, if I have a son in North America, I'm seriously considering saving cash and sending him to college with the sole intention of working on his game.

[KingCokeSnorter]

As long as your degree will pay off for itself in a year then I think its cool. My degree post scholarship cost me 17k over 4 years.
10k of that debt came in a single year when I went on exchange. Unless you have rich parents, take the extra time to work a year or two to pay for your education. Don`t take useless degrees and don`t go to university if you intend to get bad grades. Wait 2-3 year until you are more focused. Unless you get into Harvard there is no reason to carry that kind of debt. Half the cost comes from living on residence or away from home. You can easily rack up 10k a year living on res buying your own food and renting your own place.

Really the government should institute price controls and ban tuition of more than 10k.

Haha, just read the article, even yale and penn kids can`t repay loans, wow, whats this world coming to? Don't take more students loans than you can reasonably repay in 1 year of work.

"Students who take these loans have an obligation to pay them back, said Neal McCluskey an associate director at the Cato Institute in Washington."

Seriously, if I graduated from a 4 year degree and 150k debt and my only option was subway sandwhich maker I wouldn't repay either. This guy probably is very rich and never knew what it is like to be poor. If you are working just to pay an insurmountable debt you should just leave the country.

If you want to hear funny student debt stories, google areyouinsane toplawschoolforum, he is damn hilarious. I think he ran away to turkey with his dancer gf after his dead beat dead end legal job couldn't pay off his loans.

[bacon]

it really comes down to your major. i hear about all these people with masters and PHDs who are unemployed. But then if you dig deeper you find they majored in Medieval Renessance History or some weird nitch where the only good job you could get post graduation would be a professor. Then these same people who wasted 8 years in school, never got applicable skills for work, and worse yet paid for their 100k of school bills with loans.

If you are going to get a loan there needs to be a a good return on your investment. tens of thousands of dollars for majors that dont lead to finding well paid work is idiotic. If your going to major in Art History or something like that dont cry when it leads to a career at Starbucks.

[GameTheory]

how 'bout avoiding those college loans altogther? that'll show 'em !!!

[Jaydublin]

(02-05-2013 07:07 PM)KingCokeSnorter Wrote:  

Really the government should institute price controls and ban tuition of more than 10k.

that is a joke, right?

[kosko]

The Gov't already had artificial floors on Tuition by offering guaranteed Loans. In Canada prior to this Tuition was capable of begin saved for in one summer of work with enough for Tuition and Residence fees. When the Gov't underwrote and guaranteed loans tuition have skyrocket. You now have schools that have as much money in the Bank as corporations running factory mills for shitty degrees such as Arts and Business. You can't have things both ways either Gov't fund Education in full or leaves it purely in private hands, this quasi relationship has been a disaster and will create a generation of debt slaves because of it.

People wonder why the Trades have kept their value? Because the Gov't for the longest time only offered small allowances and grants towards it (if that). Its was usually quite hard to get a full Trades program funded via Gov't loans. This combo with the still tangible and legitimate merit of the work has kept program prices in check and has maintained value whiten the career. Banks did not view Trades as a lucrative market to exploit because "generally" you had lower-class/income individuals perusing these career paths and the programs where to short to extract a lot of money out of.

Students need to wake up and just walk away from the Loans. The Gov't has largely carried them through the 4 years covering the interest on the Private loan.

"But you can't file Bankruptcy or leave your Student debt"

Ask yourself if anybody thinks that what would happen to these Private Banks if one million Students chose not to pay their interest payments next month... whom would go Bankrupt?

Telling the Banks to go fuck themselves would be a quick start to Education reform.

[GameTheory]

^^^ that's right !!! in the USA there are so-called "diploma mills" which are private for-profit colleges whose diplomas ain't worth squat. students sell their souls to attend these crappy schools and are left holding the bag.

[kosko]

Many say the Diploma mills are better then the big Private and Publics, because at least the Diploma mills advertise that they offer you bullshit programs fairly openly as everybody knows they won't get a legit job taking "Game Tester Certification" or "Social Media Liaison Training".

The Big Public/Private schools still make Cindy feel like she will save the world with her French Arts Degree with a minor in Women's Studies. At least the Game Tester guy will have a smaller bill to ea.... that Cindy will be 30K deep!

My School probably has one of the lowest per student funding ratios in Canada. Its a large school which is extremely expensive to run and since they are relatively new do not have access to Alumni and kickback money like the Big schools like UofT. They are a quality school, they just are broke as shit and can only afford to clean the place every 2nd day (I kid you not). So when shit hit the fan and they needed to get some bank roll to expand they constructed the largest business school in Canada and now have 10,000 Business undergrads keeping our lights on and paying the bills.

These 10,000 kids all think they will graduate into already saturated market and get jobs....

[UrbanNerd]

I am with the mindset of unless you have a "kick ass" business idea, you better take ya ass to college...provided you take the right major.

Let me repeat this...in caps....EVERYONE CANNOT RUN THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

College was great for me....then again I was a applied math/computer science major. The return on investment was great since the day I graduated.

[guerrilla]

In my experience, the only ones who adamantly say "you shouldn't go to college" are 1) dumb rednecks who never even graduated high school, or 2) those bright, somewhat disciplined individuals who would be moderately successful with or without college.

Since this is a pickup and relationship dynamics forum, college is especially important for the latter group who as a tendency tend to have somewhat stilted general social skills.

[RandalGraves]

And they thought the housing bubble was bad. The problem in one picture:

[UrbanNerd]

(02-05-2013 06:13 PM)NYJ Wrote:  

Don't necessarily choose to forgo college entirely, choose where you can get the most for your money. For example whilst working full-time and living at home I go to a community college. The one I go to has a partnership with Rutgers. The average cost per credit hour at Rutgers for an NJ resident is $333(It's over double for someone out of state). At the community college I go to as an in county resident, the cost per credit hour is only $115. This has allowed me to pay it off with having to accrue any interest. With my final 2 years, I'll probably take on some debt, but by my estimates it'll be well under $25k. I knew people coming out of school with $50-100K worth of debt not including interest.

Community College + in-state well-known University + in-demand major = Return on Investment

[MikeinMKE]

Go to a local college where the in-state tuition is reasonable (under $9,000 per year).

It's always been retarded to spend $30,000 a year or more on undergraduate studies (unless your parents can pay cash - then it's great to network and meet other rich kids who can help you through the rest of your life). If you really need a "prestigious" school on your diploma at least wait until you're going for your graduate degree.

[MikeinMKE]

(02-05-2013 10:11 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I am with the mindset of unless you have a "kick ass" business idea, you better take ya ass to college...provided you take the right major.

Let me repeat this...in caps....EVERYONE CANNOT RUN THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

College was great for me....then again I was a applied math/computer science major. The return on investment was great since the day I graduated.

Agreed. I went to a major SEC school for absolutely free thanks to a statewide program that existed during my undergraduate years. Best "investment" ever.

[JayRock604]

(02-05-2013 09:32 PM)kosko Wrote:  

You now have schools that have as much money in the Bank as corporations running factory mills for shitty degrees such as Arts and Business.

Man you all are scaring me, I'm trying to get out of the trades and am currently upgrading my high school marks to go to university. I planned to try and get my masters in business advisory, but now your saying it's useless? Hm guess I got some major brain storming to do then.
Anyone have any advice on what would be in demand and/or helpful to get me something that would land a job in Germany, that's my dream. Or can point me in the right direction? I live in Canada if that matters. I have nothing to contribute and I apologize for that.

P.s. I got to say, I'm so glad I discovered this forum I've been just flailing around blindly in life with women, work and health, this site has been a life changing goldmine for me.
Cheers gents

[kosko]

(02-05-2013 11:24 PM)JayRock604 Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 09:32 PM)kosko Wrote:  

You now have schools that have as much money in the Bank as corporations running factory mills for shitty degrees such as Arts and Business.

Man you all are scaring me, I'm trying to get out of the trades and am currently upgrading my high school marks to go to university. I planned to try and get my masters in business advisory, but now your saying it's useless? Hm guess I got some major brain storming to do then.
Anyone have any advice on what would be in demand and/or helpful to get me something that would land a job in Germany, that's my dream. Or can point me in the right direction? I live in Canada if that matters. I have nothing to contribute and I apologize for that.

P.s. I got to say, I'm so glad I discovered this forum I've been just flailing around blindly in life with women, work and health, this site has been a life changing goldmine for me.
Cheers gents

Just think things through and be 100% strategic with it. If your doing school do it as cheap as possible. The higher in "prestige" you go only adds value to connections/networks which are worth ALOT but to me you can still do these things online and by being part of the general community in which these connections are built and shaped.

I am in school now and I want to pursue Grad school options I am just to sure if I should dive into the Shark tank and do school in Europe or do a bunch of side steps on the cheap over here.

If I could do things over I would do the cheapest, easiest, most bullshit undergrad I could do that would get me into Grad program I want and then go on from there.

[Anon-A-Moose]

(02-05-2013 07:07 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

At the rate that the value of a college degree is declining while prices are rising, correlated with the increasing amount of women attending and the sharp uptick in female sluttiness, if I have a son in North America, I'm seriously considering saving cash and sending him to college with the sole intention of working on his game.

This is the only reason to go. It's the only reason I go. I do the bare minimum to get by in my community college so I can get into a full college, where I can also do the bare minimum to get by (thankfully, I'm EXCELLENT at bullshitting for As).

Return on investment, important majors, networking, that's all a load of bullshit. BULL SHIT. There is only one real question, one real important thing: will the post-graduation lifestyle you actually expect to get make you happy?

Unfortunately, for most, the answer is no. Busting my ass for $35-40k a year and expecting a new job every year or two, no thanks, not worth it. I'm goign to bang. That's it. Besides, game is a far more valuable skill, in interpersonal and social reactions, when applied, than some bs liberal arts degree.

Also, on tuition cost: this is a two-part issue. One, you point the finger at how loans drove up the price...we need a price cap. Those are loans. not grants. Loans have to be paid back. This is how the prices go up. You cap the tuition cost, say "can't charge more than this", and the overblown and raging college industry (it's an industry, and a very profitable one!) is suddenly forced to stay much more competitive. Two, saying "fuck the banks" pretty much is always the A+ guaranteed solution to a problem. I have yet to see anything that isn't solved by saying "fuck the banks".

[Samseau]

Who actually thinks these loans will be paid back in full? The taxpayer is already footing the bill because of programs like income-based repayment. Or is it called, "pay as your earn" now? Whatever the case, people with federal loans are getting bailed out. There will be no debt enslavement, just a lot of printed money and inflation to erase these bad decisions.

[Angry Beaver]

I'm going to be swimming against the current, yet I really can't agree with some things that keep popping up in every higher education related thread: the picking of the "right major". Fully understanding that there is a correlation, at least in the States, between the majors which are in demand and the job market opportunities, I could never do uni solely based on that. Neither could I ever understand the the advice of picking a major for employment and minor in something you like.

I like history, I like IR, I am doing MA in Peace and Conflict Studies. Although my options seem rather grim at this point, I wouldn't trade that for Petroleum Engineer degree, computer science etc. That's just not me. However, when taking that approach one has to let go of the idea that a degree "will guarantee a job" and fully understand the uphill battle ahead. The latter perception of the link between a degree and employment, however, was and more or less is, an aftermath of the "marketisation" of higher education institution, when they begun to receive money according to the head-count, which also dragged down the quality of the education as well. Just my 2 cents

[Frost]

Here's another way to look at it.

There is no way in hell that all those loans will be repaid. Some sort of a bailout is coming.

There are a lot of US citizens on this board who are planning on expatriating. Collections of bad student loan debts will focus on the low-cost targets before they start hunting for Americans living off the grid in Brazil, Thailand, Eastern Europe, etc.

I have a few friends with a ton of debt, but they're barely paying interest on it because of gov subsidies. My advice to them is: Wait for the bailout. Don't bust your ass paying this shit back, only to spend the rest of your life paying taxes to subsidize the 90% of assholes who weren't so responsible.

There are a lot of excellent arguments for why higher ed is a waste of *time*, but in terms of the financial cost, you need to take into account that there's a large chance you won't ever actually have to pay. Or if you do have to pay, it will be in worthless, hyperinflated USD.

[pobreinvestidor]

(02-06-2013 09:26 AM)Angry Beaver Wrote:  

I'm going to be swimming against the current, yet I really can't agree with some things that keep popping up in every higher education related thread: the picking of the "right major". Fully understanding that there is a correlation, at least in the States, between the majors which are in demand and the job market opportunities, I could never do uni solely based on that. Neither could I ever understand the the advice of picking a major for employment and minor in something you like.

I like history, I like IR, I am doing MA in Peace and Conflict Studies. Although my options seem rather grim at this point, I wouldn't trade that for Petroleum Engineer degree, computer science etc. That's just not me. However, when taking that approach one has to let go of the idea that a degree "will guarantee a job" and fully understand the uphill battle ahead. The latter perception of the link between a degree and employment, however, was and more or less is, an aftermath of the "marketisation" of higher education institution, when they begun to receive money according to the head-count, which also dragged down the quality of the education as well. Just my 2 cents

Well some people are practical about money and some are not.

As soon as hugs, smiles and happiness levels become a de-facto currency you will be way ahead of those guys pursuing those laborious and demanding engineering jobs

[Menace]

I think a more accurate title for this post would be "Don't just go to college because it's the thing to do." College absolutely makes sense for certain areas and for certain people. In the US, the main problems are:

a) student loans are ridiculously easy to get
b) student loans are not dis-chargeable in bankruptcy (except under very limited circumstances)
c) as a result of a) and b), tuition costs increase far faster than rate of inflation (see above)
d) a large number of people do not belong in college because they lack the discipline and/or intelligence to succeed
e) people pick majors that have poor ROI but have the same loans as someone with more useful skills (see Aaron Clarey's book)
e2) note that if you come from the right kind of family, it doesn't matter what kind of degree you get, and in fact many get degrees that are otherwise poor ROI if you come from a middle class or poor family with no connections (scions of rich people do not get engineering degrees typically)
f) as a result of a), b) and e), loans are not being repaid or cannot reasonably be repaid, yet are still being made

College made sense for me, and I would not be where I am today if I hadn't gone. Of course, I also did not have any loans at all until law school.

[BIGINJAPAN]

Kosko makes a good point about what education has become in the states. Some of these colleges are publicly traded companies. What makes it even more laughable is the government gives students loans to " attend" these colleges. So here you have a publicly traded company that is getting financing essentially from the government. Check out APOL. They are operating at over 20% net margins.

What about Harvard and Texas ? 2 of the biggest slush funds in the world. Or even Yale for that matter. Since they are the one suing their own students right now.

http://www.mainstreet.com/slideshow/mone...es-america

Point is how could you consider going to school when they are clearly ran for profit.