[Vicious]

(01-20-2013 08:50 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

Also, I don't understand how the news that your men are marrying outside your country indicates anything other than the fact that your countrywomen are of a lower calibre.

This is what I meant earlier by intellectual slacking. There are tons of reasons. Preference for a certain look or physical attribute, access to citizenship in a sub-tropical country, availability of better looking women to what your own age/look/shape would garner etc etc

(01-20-2013 12:39 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

So, it appears what Harry says is correct, in that Thai women are often seen as victims and there is general outrage, but Harry appears incorrect in saying that all of Sweeden will jump on the anti-Thai women bandwagon.

The quoted portion above from Stockholm U shows that the intellectual elites do not seem to mind having Thai massage parlous and mixed asian/white babies running around.

I did find that link but the only thing available is just a summary of the study, the data and study itself is not available online so I couldn't do anything with that.

Look, I'm not saying HH is wrong only that I find no material that supports his assertion. Show me the data and I won't be late to deliver the mea culpa.

[babababalot]

i had a thai gf for 6 months - she was 7 years older than me. broke up with her a few weeks ago.

i'm beta as fuck i know...

anyway, she was incredible, feminine, kind, caring and the only reason i broke up with her was because i want to bang other girls and she wants to get married. she spoke fluent english and had a good business mind. also thai women age very well. not like western women.

if i was 40yo and looking for a wife then she would have ticked all the boxes.

my brother bought us a book on thai-western relationship dynamics and it was really eye-opening.

havhing read this book i think i was pretty lucky and don't think for one second that all or most thai girls are to be idealised as marriage material.

in most cases cultural values will clash hard - thai interdependence and family vs. western independence, etc. it's a very different culture and value system. it's not all roses.

there's a strong track record of older western men moving to thailand and building a house up in the north-east and getting screwed over with payments to family, and ultimately divorce. a lot of thai-western relationships do fail.

i don't necessarily blame the thai girls and absolve these guys of criticism. many of these guys will put a ring on anything with no rational analysis that true men are supposed to engage in prior to making important life decisions.

if these swedish guys are getting middle class thai girls from bangkok or chiang mai then they are doing very well and have (most likely) made a commendable choice of partner.

but if they're shacking up with semi-illiterate, superstitious peasant girls from isaan that live up to the thais' well-deserved reputation for ignorance and lack of common sense, then i'm not sold on the merits of marrying these girls just because they're thai, young, feminine and cute.

here's a fun fact: thailand is the best place in the world if looking for a surgeon to reattach a severed penis. there's a good reason why this is the case.

[babababalot]

also thai girls generally have low lay counts. many of them are virgins in their early 20s. they get shamed pretty hard for breaking up with a bf with this mentality: "he used you for sex and you couldn't win his commitment"

[speakeasy]

Combine their low fertility rate and their out-marriage rate and you can see where this is headed. The Scandinavian people will pretty much erase their phenotype from the globe within a few generations. All you blonde fetishists better go grab one now before they're extinct.

[rudebwoy]

Swedish women are forcing the government to put a stop to there "men" importing foreign women, I find this statement shocking to say the least.

Must be hard for them, being raised to think they were the only game in town and now they have to compete with women that don't look like them.

[WesternCancer]

Interesting. I had a related convo with a girl the other day. She was talking about going to Thailand. I mentioned how I wanted to go too, but everyone keeps saying "you're just going for the whores" I said I had no interest in them and would just rather have fun with the locals and whatever happens happens. She replied saying "well when I travel its not to go and have sex with the locals I don't really get that" I replied what's wrong with interracial/multicultural dating? Her hamster fell of the wheel and she changed the subject. It's funny how reframing something as her not being open/accepting enough will just blow their brains up.

[Laner]

It seems that this is dealing with a much older age bracket. 40yo +? In that group there are going to be a majority of men that look at the Swedish women their age and of course would not be interested.

Also understand that there is a huge culture of "non married" relationships in Sweden, especially among the previously divorced crowd. They call it sambo. Women who are not married and over the age of 40 are considered fairly lucky to have a man in a sambo relationship, although it is common. Men on the other hand usually wont bother with Swedish women their own age and will go looking to EE and Asia for someone much younger. Who would blame them?

I seen this all the time in Malmo where there is a general high level of immigration. Lots of Thai girl/ older Swedish man relationships.

In my circle of friends one good friend her mom is Polish and 45 now, while her dad is 65 (he is Swedish). She has half sisters from her dads first marriage (Swede/Swede). Also others where their dads are in a second major relationship after their marriage has ended, and even if its with a Swedish woman, they will almost always be with younger women.

I wonder if this is higher in Sweden than in other countries, or if its just another thing for the hard line Swedish feminists to sink their teeth into.

[Tigre]

(01-20-2013 05:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 03:05 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

And it seems as if the divorce rate IS 55%, so the article could be right.

No. Not according to The Swedish bureau of statistics.

Civilståndsändringar 2011/2012:

- Gifta (married)
91 825 92 301
- Skilda (divorced)
42 278 42 570

Vicious, you quoted some Swedish bureau of statistics figures, but they are useless for coming to a conclusion. You need to look at historical divorce rates. Consider second marriages, third marriages etc.

Imagine a population of 100 men and 100 women. Each person marries and divorces three times, then marries a fourth time. At the present moment, all are married.

The divorce rate in this example is 75% (300 divorces out of 400 marriages).

You can't just look at the number of people currently married (all of them) and say the divorce rate is 0%.

[solo]

(01-20-2013 06:38 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

So your basic summary is that there is fuck all wrong with Swedish women or feminism in Sweden at all, and the men are not looking at other options out of frustration, they are merely world travelers from an open society that embraces multiculturalism in all its forms?

This is just anecdotal but I was working a blue collar job about ten years ago. One of my co-workers openly said he was going to go to the Baltics to search for a girlfriend because he had "been around for a while" and was tired of the bullshit of Swedish girls. This was a guy who pulled quality girls with ease, too (saw it myself). Everybody was stunned, because there is a bit of a stigma to go East looking for girls, many people thinking those countries are much less developed than they actually are and that the girls are all semi-prostitutes. I then saw him a few years later with a hot slavic-looking girl.

Vicious is right there is no *movement* to ban Thai wifes in Sweden, though. That doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't tacit shaming going on.

[Vicious]

Quote:

You can't just look at the number of people currently married (all of them) and say the divorce rate is 0%.

I've said nothing of the sort. 47% is the figure I've given. The rate of any one year is divorces divided by marriages (#).

[Vicious]

(01-20-2013 01:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Combine their low fertility rate and their out-marriage rate and you can see where this is headed. The Scandinavian people will pretty much erase their phenotype from the globe within a few generations. All you blonde fetishists better go grab one now before they're extinct.

Another myth. Popular with race supremacists.

[Samseau]

(01-20-2013 06:05 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 01:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Combine their low fertility rate and their out-marriage rate and you can see where this is headed. The Scandinavian people will pretty much erase their phenotype from the globe within a few generations. All you blonde fetishists better go grab one now before they're extinct.

Another myth. Popular with race supremacists.

What's so mythological about that? It's easy to check birth rates in Sweden and see where this is headed.

[Asaxon]

I am with samseau on this one. Birth rates speak a clear language all over northern Europe. Combine this with the recessive nature of the genes for blonde (ie lack of melanine) and the blonde phenotype seems to be in serious decline.

[solo]

(01-20-2013 05:58 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:

You can't just look at the number of people currently married (all of them) and say the divorce rate is 0%.

I've said nothing of the sort. 47% is the figure I've given. The rate of any one year is divorces divided by marriages (#).

I suck at math so I shouldn't get involved here, but I thought the rate we're interested in the percentage of marriages which end in divorce. I would think that is not the same as dividing the number of divorces by the number of new marriages in any given year, but like I said I could be wrong.

As for birth rates, they are not just declining in northern Europe but in most of Europe (I would think they are declining even more in southern Europe, though maybe that's because they don't have as many immigrants).

I will be the first to say feminism is bad in Sweden, but from what I understand, on the whole, things are still better than in the US. So it always makes me laugh reading the comment sections over at places like heartiste where guys who are presumably American talk about how Swedish guys have allegedly become push-overs.

[Deluge]

(01-20-2013 08:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 06:05 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 01:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Combine their low fertility rate and their out-marriage rate and you can see where this is headed. The Scandinavian people will pretty much erase their phenotype from the globe within a few generations. All you blonde fetishists better go grab one now before they're extinct.

Another myth. Popular with race supremacists.

What's so mythological about that? It's easy to check birth rates in Sweden and see where this is headed.

Scandinavian fertility rates are pretty good by European standards. Same for the British, French & Irish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sov...ility_rate

[Asaxon]

Pdog, Sweden's fertility rate is listed as 1.8 in your link. This is not good but below sustainable (2.1 is needed for maintenance of a stable population).. If you combine that with the rest of the world at 3 to 4.5 plus the fact the ethnic Swedes have a fertility rate of 1.2 ( the 1.8 is boosted by immigrants) the argument for blondes dying out seems rather bulletproof unless there are some major changes.

[DVY]

(01-20-2013 08:15 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm probably going to end up marrying a foreign woman some day but I don't think I'd bring her to Canada

Scotian, heres where you are short-sighted. Bring your wife back to Canada/USA to give birth. That way your kid has a dual-citizenship.

My 2c.

[Walderschmidt]

(01-20-2013 11:37 PM)DVY Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:15 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm probably going to end up marrying a foreign woman some day but I don't think I'd bring her to Canada

Scotian, heres where you are short-sighted. Bring your wife back to Canada/USA to give birth. That way your kid has a dual-citizenship.

My 2c.

I think he's avoiding bringing her back to Canada specifically because of the Canadian divorce courts and the possibility that his future could "assimilate" into the Canadian culture.

I'm not sure how Canada does it, but I imagine the kid would have a Canadian passport by virtue of having a Canadian father.

[Parlay44]

rudebwoy ' Wrote:  

This goes to show you that men may love to play with liberated women but they don't want to settle down with them, they would prefer a more old-fashioned (re: less partners) thai girl to marry.

That's how I feel as well. I think the adage is ...you can't turn a whore into a housewife.

I thought we had a thread on here about black guys are killing it in Sweden? So what's the problem? Swedish broads are banging black dudes and Swedish guys are banging Thai girls. I'm sure they both want some spice and variety out of life. If I was blonde I know I'd be tired of fucking blondes all the time.

Great thread by the way Hooligan Harry

[cibo]

(01-20-2013 11:07 PM)solo Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 05:58 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Quote:

You can't just look at the number of people currently married (all of them) and say the divorce rate is 0%.

I've said nothing of the sort. 47% is the figure I've given. The rate of any one year is divorces divided by marriages (#).

I suck at math so I shouldn't get involved here, but I thought the rate we're interested in the percentage of marriages which end in divorce. I would think that is not the same as dividing the number of divorces by the number of new marriages in any given year, but like I said I could be wrong.

Vicious is correct with how the number is calculated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography

People tend to like big all encompassing aggregated numbers so we can argue about them relentlessly for multiple valid reasons why its going up or down (see unemployment rate). They do have their uses since its can give you a quick view of the overall trends but always always segment to get a better picture of what's actually going on (which may prove the overall trend wrong).

In my view, probably you're correct in the fact it's probably not necessarily the best metric for tracking success of marriages. This would be because we are taking 2 unlike populations and comparing them. The metric tracked here is an input / output for marriage.

number of people who are single converting to being married per year
number of people who are married converting to divorced per year

Metrics derive from strategic goals and I feel the implied goal with that number is "are we getting and keeping enough people in marriage? If not why?"

For divorce rate to be more meaningful, you would need other numbers to supplement it since divorce rate won't give you an idea of how many marriages of a certain year succeed/failed. But, perhaps that was determined to be a desire of the original number. I feel using percentage of marriages that divorced, preferably segmented by age, instead of crude divorce rate to be a better number.

[scotian]

(01-21-2013 12:11 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:37 PM)DVY Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:15 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm probably going to end up marrying a foreign woman some day but I don't think I'd bring her to Canada

Scotian, heres where you are short-sighted. Bring your wife back to Canada/USA to give birth. That way your kid has a dual-citizenship.

My 2c.

I think he's avoiding bringing her back to Canada specifically because of the Canadian divorce courts and the possibility that his future could "assimilate" into the Canadian culture.

I'm not sure how Canada does it, but I imagine the kid would have a Canadian passport by virtue of having a Canadian father.

You hit the nail on the head there man, if I do ever get married and have kids, which I plan on doing someday, I'll either be working in country as an expat or work seasonal, as I do now. Work 4-6 months a year in Canada and spend the rest of the time abroad where my money goes A LOT farther.

I think it would be too stressful on a woman from say Asia or Latin America to uproot her from her family and bring her to Canada; new country, culture, language barrier and absolute shit weather. Also the chance of being raped in divorce court and the likelihood of my kids growing up to be entitled brats, raising a family in North America is a gamble these days.

[Walderschmidt]

(01-21-2013 12:46 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:11 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:37 PM)DVY Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:15 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm probably going to end up marrying a foreign woman some day but I don't think I'd bring her to Canada

Scotian, heres where you are short-sighted. Bring your wife back to Canada/USA to give birth. That way your kid has a dual-citizenship.

My 2c.

I think he's avoiding bringing her back to Canada specifically because of the Canadian divorce courts and the possibility that his future could "assimilate" into the Canadian culture.

I'm not sure how Canada does it, but I imagine the kid would have a Canadian passport by virtue of having a Canadian father.

You hit the nail on the head there man, if I do ever get married and have kids, which I plan on doing someday, I'll either be working in country as an expat or work seasonal, as I do now. Work 4-6 months a year in Canada and spend the rest of the time abroad where my money goes A LOT farther.

I think it would be too stressful on a woman from say Asia or Latin America to uproot her from her family and bring her to Canada; new country, culture, language barrier and absolute shit weather. Also the chance of being raped in divorce court and the likelihood of my kids growing up to be entitled brats, raising a family in North America is a gamble these days.

I find that women don't like to live too far from their families. You can work around this with game and hand, but it's just another thing you'd have to be thoughtful about.

In my case I plan to expatriate if ever get married.

The only thing I can't decide is what country I would most prefer to get married in.

It seems like Asians make the best wives and are most submissive, but fitting in with her family and making social connections over there is hard for a westerner.

Maybe I'll go for Italian or Brazilian.

Where would you think of expatriating to?

[Vicious]

(01-20-2013 11:30 PM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Pdog, Sweden's fertility rate is listed as 1.8 in your link. This is not good but below sustainable (2.1 is needed for maintenance of a stable population).. If you combine that with the rest of the world at 3 to 4.5 plus the fact the ethnic Swedes have a fertility rate of 1.2 ( the 1.8 is boosted by immigrants) the argument for blondes dying out seems rather bulletproof unless there are some major changes.

I have no idea where you get these numbers but since the "ethnic" rate looks suspiciously low I suspect Heartiste or similar. The conclusion is nevertheless premature.

Nevertheless, some quick math however shows that it would take about 1500 years for "ethnic" Swedes however to die out. And that's assuming a lot of things like no major events affecting birth rates in (we've had 2 just the last 100 years), the fertility rate being stagnant (it's not, but growing over the last 10 years), immigrant population not assimilating with the "ethnic" (which we actually know it does), life expectancy remaining constant (it's not) and that "swedish genes" are somehow regressive (which is absurd but it makes the math easier). So this alleged bulletproof argument about the decline of the white man appears wafer thin if you look beyond the single data point.

The alarmist pieces about so-and-so race dying out are almost exlusively thrown at you in their altered fashion when it serves someone's agenda.

[Samseau]

(01-21-2013 03:19 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:30 PM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Pdog, Sweden's fertility rate is listed as 1.8 in your link. This is not good but below sustainable (2.1 is needed for maintenance of a stable population).. If you combine that with the rest of the world at 3 to 4.5 plus the fact the ethnic Swedes have a fertility rate of 1.2 ( the 1.8 is boosted by immigrants) the argument for blondes dying out seems rather bulletproof unless there are some major changes.

I have no idea where you get these numbers but since the "ethnic" rate looks suspiciously low I suspect Heartiste or similar. The conclusion is nevertheless premature.

Nevertheless, some quick math however shows that it would take about 1500 years for "ethnic" Swedes however to die out. And that's assuming a lot of things like no major events affecting birth rates in (we've had 2 just the last 100 years), the fertility rate being stagnant (it's not, but growing over the last 10 years), immigrant population not assimilating with the "ethnic" (which we actually know it does), life expectancy remaining constant (it's not) and that "swedish genes" are somehow regressive (which is absurd but it makes the math easier). So this alleged bulletproof argument about the decline of the white man appears wafer thin if you look beyond the single data point.

The alarmist pieces about so-and-so race dying out are almost exlusively thrown at you in their altered fashion when it serves someone's agenda.

No one's saying the Swedes are gonna go extinct. The original claim was that the current phenotype for Swedes will disappear.

This means that swedes in 150 years from now will look much different from swedes today. That's all. It's hardly a big claim, and it has nothing to do with racism.

Huge intermarriage + decreasing fertility = evolution at work.

[scotian]

(01-21-2013 12:53 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:46 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:11 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 11:37 PM)DVY Wrote:  

(01-20-2013 08:15 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm probably going to end up marrying a foreign woman some day but I don't think I'd bring her to Canada

Scotian, heres where you are short-sighted. Bring your wife back to Canada/USA to give birth. That way your kid has a dual-citizenship.

My 2c.

I think he's avoiding bringing her back to Canada specifically because of the Canadian divorce courts and the possibility that his future could "assimilate" into the Canadian culture.

I'm not sure how Canada does it, but I imagine the kid would have a Canadian passport by virtue of having a Canadian father.

You hit the nail on the head there man, if I do ever get married and have kids, which I plan on doing someday, I'll either be working in country as an expat or work seasonal, as I do now. Work 4-6 months a year in Canada and spend the rest of the time abroad where my money goes A LOT farther.

I think it would be too stressful on a woman from say Asia or Latin America to uproot her from her family and bring her to Canada; new country, culture, language barrier and absolute shit weather. Also the chance of being raped in divorce court and the likelihood of my kids growing up to be entitled brats, raising a family in North America is a gamble these days.

I find that women don't like to live too far from their families. You can work around this with game and hand, but it's just another thing you'd have to be thoughtful about.

In my case I plan to expatriate if ever get married.

The only thing I can't decide is what country I would most prefer to get married in.

It seems like Asians make the best wives and are most submissive, but fitting in with her family and making social connections over there is hard for a westerner.

Maybe I'll go for Italian or Brazilian.

Where would you think of expatriating to?

Not quite sure yet but I figure it'll be somewhere in SE Asia or south America, Africa is also an option but definitely a long shot. Basically I would expat somewhere I can practice my trade, although I may have to go back to school to upgrade my skills.

There are a lot of options out there such as Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, Brazil, Colombia, Chile, South Africa for full time expat jobs. The other option is pretty good too, working in Canada for a few months then spending my free months wherever I want.

Like Harry said in his OP, a lot of young Aussie guys who work offshore or in the mines are doing this now, its not so popular among the rotation workers in Canada who are also offshore and in mining but its something that I've done for awhile and will likely continue to do so. I'd like to go expat so I can earn a tax free living and not have to fork over tens of thousands of dollars to the Canadian welfare state, an unsustainable pyramid scheme that I don't agree with and will only get worse as our demographic time bomb explodes.