Venice MINI REPORT - Confusing top shelf FSU babes part deux
Dear RVF mofos, this is a long post to vent my frustrations and give you the full flavour of the delectably unfathomable dish that is FSU hotties. If you read in between the lines, you will get an idea of the pros and cons of sarging in venice.
For those who want to bone up on my Kiev experiences, run a search for that thread – it was heavily commented on.
The executive summary was I dated a handful of 8+ HBs over two weeks and they were very difficult to sex within a reasonable time frame (less than 3 dates), with a lot of cock teasing and stringing along occurring despite bringing my best A Game to the table. It should be noted I deliberately minimised my spending on girls/dates to ensure my results were clean and as an anti gold-digger measure.
I came away from Kiev positive that Ukrainian girls were my aesthetic ideal, positive about not having dated lower than an 8 (I do believe Roosh and Krauser saw photos of the top quality I was dealing with) but I had reservations about their personalities and suitability for LTRs – I discussed the personality problems with Vorkuta and was undecided.
I have now gone on two short holidays with Ukrainian girls, one HB9 blonde to Ibiza and another HB8 to Venice– and they have been the worst holidays in my life due to the girl’s attitudes. IMO the personality of some of many of these beautiful Ukrainian girls is intolerable.
As this is a Venice trip report with HB8, I won’t comment about the HB9 except to say her attitude was very similar to HB8, but at least I was banging the HB9.
22 year old HB8 met in Kiev, part time model/air stewardess, 2 dates and ran out of time to bang her. On the second date she is massively into me, got her up to my apartment, heavy tonguing down, hand down dress, dress off shoulder, hands down panties etc and then she stops things exactly where she wants them stopped and gets a taxi. Roosh’s LOGICAL SEX theory at its finest. At this point I had spent less than 20 euros on her. All good. Patience grasshopper, patience…
Its December and I would like to see her again in order to get some Ukrainian loving. Seeing as I am not going back to Kiev during the winter to enjoy -20c temperatures, we find that Venice is in the middle between us and agree to fly there for New Years and 3 days holiday. She pays for her flights and I tell her I’ll pay for the hotel and she can buy me a lunch or two while I cover the rest.
FYI Venice is the most expensive city on the planet in NYs according to a recent poll. I wasn’t aware of this fact. Small 2* Hotel was over 450 euros for 4 nights.
So my thinking is this: Very attractive girl, great body, part time model, nearly got to sex the last time I saw her, going to the most romantic city on earth for NY, double bed in the hotel – this has to be a layup.
WRONG.
A week before she confesses to me on VK that she is nervous about the trip because she has never gone on holiday with a guy, not even with her last boyfriend. I ignore and continue preparations.
On the day of arrival, she has to wake up at 4 AM in freezing Kiev and she arrives in Venice a few hours before me and drops off her luggage at the hotel, and because my roaming doesn’t work, I can’t contact her until I am in the city a few hours after she arrives. I explain this because it may explain a little of her initial attitude, but certainly doesn’t explain 3 days of it.
When I finally meet her at the hotel, she is clearly a little high strung, so instead of kissing her on the lips to greet her, I was thrown off my vibe and greet her with a hug… it goes downhill from there. We lie down on the bed to catch a siesta and I try to put my arm around her and she accepts it with some resistance. Closed mouth puckered lips kiss. Tells me when she arrived in Venice (despite the hotel confirming everything was reserved/paid for etc) that she panicked walking around venice, would she have to find a hotel, would she have to take a train to Milan to stay with her friend if I didn’t arrive etc… the kind of things an 8 year old would worry about in that situation. You start to realise just how sheltered these FSU girls who have very limited travel experience are. Maybe she thought we were sharing a double bed in Venice to exchange bed time stories?
Obviously her emotions weren’t right on day 1 and I know game well enough to know you don’t change a girls mind, you change her emotions –so I let her rest before we go out, planning to cheer her up a bit, get her drunk and then good times.
I told her to bring good walking shoes, gloves, scarf and woolly hat and she had brought none of these because they’re not sexy. Already on D1 she is complaining about the cold (20c warmer than kiev LOL), the humidity, the canals, walking too much (in venice!?). I also start to notice Venice is hideously expensive and is not easy to find bars near to your hotel nor are there any nightclubs (just 1 or 2 hole in the wall discos). Walk to San Marco, have a not great pizza and wine at a restaurant were the bill is over 60 euros for 2 pizzas and a small bottle of wine and I make an executive decision not to bounce her to a bar (ive already spend 28 euros on boat tickets that evening and god know how much the cocktails will set me back) and instead get her back to the hotel. Short shower later and when I come out of the bathroom, she is already in bed pretending to sleep. Get in to bed, try to initiate a bit of kino, get rebuffed lightly, try to initiate some kissing, get a closed mouth peck on the lips and I decide to call it a day and sleep because the girl has been up since 3.30AM and will feel better tomorrow.
Tomorrow its more of the same. Its her birthday so I give her a pre wrapped present of some nice lingerie. Nope I’m not gonna get to see it on LOL. No more lingerie presents from BigAlexBoss in the future.
Doesn’t like venice. When can we go to a different city? Its cold. Her feet hurt in those fucking high heeled boots of hers. Constantly sighing and when I ask whats up, she says its nothing etc. She insists on putting her arm through mine or holding my hand all the time. Spends 90% of the time we are in restaurants on her fucking smart phone, checking her status updates etc, a massive disrespect.
At this point I’m paying for everything but make sure she buys her own gifts, souvenirs etc and the next set of boat tickets. We visit the glass making warehouses were she keeps admiring several pieces but doesn’t buy anything, I can only assume hinting non verbally that I should buy her a couple of presents – I don’t because I am already seeing this is a losing investment and I need to cut my losses. Tells me she would love to go to the Venice casino in the evening and play the tables. I say it’s a nice idea if she dresses up for it.
Back to the hotel for a siesta, more rebuffed kino, another kiss attempt rejected and have to settle for a cheek kiss. At this point I have had enough of her attitude but for some reason don’t verbalise it. The british gentleman in me prevails - 2013 is the year I finally strangle the mofo completely because he’s an anachronism in the modern hypergamous dating reality.
Instead I get up and say I’m off to grab a quick bite of dinner and walk venice (lovely city to walk) for 3 hours until 11 PM. There was no way I was going to take her to the Casino with god knows the cash outlay that would have involved for what was apparent now would be zero reward. 0 chance of bringing a tourist bird back to mine as I had a frigid girl using up my bed.
Last day of trip we go to Padua nearby. More complaining, sighing etc. Strange moments where we are in the outdoor market, she will pass by a piece of gourmet cheese or a panetoni, mention how it would be a good present for friends and then doesn’t buy it. When I verbalise “Do you want me to get you some XXX cheese?” She sighs in frustration and walks off. I can only assume these FSU girls are used to the men buying them everything and anything they pass by and say is nice. That or I have no idea what is going on. I would have been happy to buy her one or two things if she hadn’t acted like such a bitch.
Final evening, siesta time. At this point I would have loved to parachute in one of the RVF vets (Tuth, GMAC, Mech etc) off the bench in extra time to see what they would do and if the situation was salvageable before the final whistle without using the nuclear option of splashing megacash as my pride just wouldn’t allow it.
So I decide to try my final gambit: I have a shower, dress up real nice and elegant to go out later and then lie down on the bed for an hour to annotate some work notes. She comes out of the shower and for the first time on the trip I am 100% ignoring her in favour of a mound of notes. She is subtly trying to get my attention and actually chasing rapport, asking me more questions than se has the whole trip long: “Have you ever been to Vienna etc?”
I act distracted and make her repeat the question etc, not moving my eyes from the material. For 10 more minutes she tries to seek rapport and finally I judge the time right to pull her in for a makeout, she accepts some hair stroking, minor cuddling then kiss completely rejected, pulls away.
At this point she has successfully drained my large reservoir of positivity and so I while she is checking her social media status, I casually say “Well I’m off to grab a quick dinner, I’ll see you later” for a millisecond she is genuinely surprised and then I have disappeared out the door. I get back at 12 AM and she is pretending to sleep with the lights and television on. Sleep. Take her to the train station at 4 AM. Quick hug and I am out of there, not even waiting for her train to arrive.
The Take home:
Both these top shelf Ukrainian girls have had the personalities of a rotting corpse. Irrationally moody and complete positivity drains. Roosh made mention of this in his bang guide – for me it’s a show stopper.
They offered no conversation, didn’t want to participate in role plays, imagination games etc and only showed interest in gift shops and fashion boutiques. They are the worst LTR prospects I have met, literally only being good for the bang and then its best to spend as little time with them as possible. Both girls had English in the top 5% for Ukraine and it was still not good enough to appreciate wit, humour, make interesting conversation etc. Both were social media smartphone obsessed.
Why on earth would she accept to stay with me in a double bedroom in venice in NY if she had no plans for intimacy? I would have said for the almost free Italian holiday but she complained about Venice so much that I’m not even sure that’s it. Friend zone was firmly avoided in kiev by the fact my hand was down her panties and her tongue down my throat.
I obviously haven’t got a firm grip on Slavic men/women relations yet and after his fiasco, I’m not sure I want to make the effort – Speaking Russian well is a must to forge a connection with these ice maidens. The cultural gap between western European and Ukrainian is far larger than with Yugoslavian girls (Krauser can comment here) polish girls (roosh) etc. These girls are tough to understand. Clearly you must be prepared to splash SERIOUS cash on presents/wining/dining in order to get laid, all in serious contradiction of game tenets. Don’t go on romantic holidays with these girls unless you have multiple bangs under your belt and understand the mentality required.
For a few days I couldn’t figure out why she would insist on walking everywhere with me arm in arm, yet wouldn’t let me get anywhere significant physically. It didn’t make sense. Then it dawned on me. For FSUs, if the guy is treating the girl to everything on a holiday, but she isn’t giving him any physical value via sex, kissing etc, so she goes arm in arm with him as her value offering because you GET SEEN having a very hot babe on your arm. This to the Slavic man is quality value as it elevates his position in society. Where this interchange broke down for us is that being SEEN with a hot Slavic girl means shit to me, if I’m not banging her. I would rather walk alone and be free to daygame the tourists rather than have a cockblock on my arm.
If I could quit and reload a save game, here is what I would have done different to get the bang:
1) Activate roaming before leaving spain. Didn’t realise I had to ring my phone company before leaving the company and being unable to phone her for a few hours contributed to her initial bad mood. Get these girls moody and you’re fucked because the LOGICAL SEX aint coming your way buddy.
2) On arrival day I needed to go all out for the bang and that meant getting her pissed enough to temporarily kill the LOGICAL SEX forebrain. Post demibottle of wine over dinner, she was in a good mood and probably a small present and bouncing to a bar near the hotel to get her multiple cocktails down her throat and then standard Tuth first date bang method would have just got me over the line. Problem is logistics are fucked in Venice where you have to walk everywhere and the restaurant was a half hour walk from the center by which time the emotional vibe was dead and we were in logical land again. Also I was aware I had spent over 150 euros that day alone and the idea of dropping 50 euro in a bar was not enticing.
3) Manginas and white knights look away now: After the first night when I realised her attitude was all wrong, I should have verbalised strongly and unemotionally that her behaviour was unacceptable and that she was making me think we were physically incompatible (ala bang final chapter). If she didn’t try to warm me up, there and then tell her she needs to find her own hotel room because I’m here on holiday and she is cockblocking me by being there. Do these FSU girls need their man to aggressively verbalise dissatisfaction, hint at physical force, even physically overcome resistance? My rape game isn’t up to scratch and I didn’t plan to rot to death in the same jail cell as Casanova.
So FSU experts –What would you have done differently? This is clearly an FSU >8 problem because 6s and 7s were doing all the running in Kiev, but I went to FSU to hunt big game, not meerkats. Do I need to full on hardass slavic man on these girls?
Dear RVF mofos, this is a long post to vent my frustrations and give you the full flavour of the delectably unfathomable dish that is FSU hotties. If you read in between the lines, you will get an idea of the pros and cons of sarging in venice.
For those who want to bone up on my Kiev experiences, run a search for that thread – it was heavily commented on.
The executive summary was I dated a handful of 8+ HBs over two weeks and they were very difficult to sex within a reasonable time frame (less than 3 dates), with a lot of cock teasing and stringing along occurring despite bringing my best A Game to the table. It should be noted I deliberately minimised my spending on girls/dates to ensure my results were clean and as an anti gold-digger measure.
I came away from Kiev positive that Ukrainian girls were my aesthetic ideal, positive about not having dated lower than an 8 (I do believe Roosh and Krauser saw photos of the top quality I was dealing with) but I had reservations about their personalities and suitability for LTRs – I discussed the personality problems with Vorkuta and was undecided.
I have now gone on two short holidays with Ukrainian girls, one HB9 blonde to Ibiza and another HB8 to Venice– and they have been the worst holidays in my life due to the girl’s attitudes. IMO the personality of some of many of these beautiful Ukrainian girls is intolerable.
As this is a Venice trip report with HB8, I won’t comment about the HB9 except to say her attitude was very similar to HB8, but at least I was banging the HB9.
22 year old HB8 met in Kiev, part time model/air stewardess, 2 dates and ran out of time to bang her. On the second date she is massively into me, got her up to my apartment, heavy tonguing down, hand down dress, dress off shoulder, hands down panties etc and then she stops things exactly where she wants them stopped and gets a taxi. Roosh’s LOGICAL SEX theory at its finest. At this point I had spent less than 20 euros on her. All good. Patience grasshopper, patience…
Its December and I would like to see her again in order to get some Ukrainian loving. Seeing as I am not going back to Kiev during the winter to enjoy -20c temperatures, we find that Venice is in the middle between us and agree to fly there for New Years and 3 days holiday. She pays for her flights and I tell her I’ll pay for the hotel and she can buy me a lunch or two while I cover the rest.
FYI Venice is the most expensive city on the planet in NYs according to a recent poll. I wasn’t aware of this fact. Small 2* Hotel was over 450 euros for 4 nights.
So my thinking is this: Very attractive girl, great body, part time model, nearly got to sex the last time I saw her, going to the most romantic city on earth for NY, double bed in the hotel – this has to be a layup.
WRONG.
A week before she confesses to me on VK that she is nervous about the trip because she has never gone on holiday with a guy, not even with her last boyfriend. I ignore and continue preparations.
On the day of arrival, she has to wake up at 4 AM in freezing Kiev and she arrives in Venice a few hours before me and drops off her luggage at the hotel, and because my roaming doesn’t work, I can’t contact her until I am in the city a few hours after she arrives. I explain this because it may explain a little of her initial attitude, but certainly doesn’t explain 3 days of it.
When I finally meet her at the hotel, she is clearly a little high strung, so instead of kissing her on the lips to greet her, I was thrown off my vibe and greet her with a hug… it goes downhill from there. We lie down on the bed to catch a siesta and I try to put my arm around her and she accepts it with some resistance. Closed mouth puckered lips kiss. Tells me when she arrived in Venice (despite the hotel confirming everything was reserved/paid for etc) that she panicked walking around venice, would she have to find a hotel, would she have to take a train to Milan to stay with her friend if I didn’t arrive etc… the kind of things an 8 year old would worry about in that situation. You start to realise just how sheltered these FSU girls who have very limited travel experience are. Maybe she thought we were sharing a double bed in Venice to exchange bed time stories?
Obviously her emotions weren’t right on day 1 and I know game well enough to know you don’t change a girls mind, you change her emotions –so I let her rest before we go out, planning to cheer her up a bit, get her drunk and then good times.
I told her to bring good walking shoes, gloves, scarf and woolly hat and she had brought none of these because they’re not sexy. Already on D1 she is complaining about the cold (20c warmer than kiev LOL), the humidity, the canals, walking too much (in venice!?). I also start to notice Venice is hideously expensive and is not easy to find bars near to your hotel nor are there any nightclubs (just 1 or 2 hole in the wall discos). Walk to San Marco, have a not great pizza and wine at a restaurant were the bill is over 60 euros for 2 pizzas and a small bottle of wine and I make an executive decision not to bounce her to a bar (ive already spend 28 euros on boat tickets that evening and god know how much the cocktails will set me back) and instead get her back to the hotel. Short shower later and when I come out of the bathroom, she is already in bed pretending to sleep. Get in to bed, try to initiate a bit of kino, get rebuffed lightly, try to initiate some kissing, get a closed mouth peck on the lips and I decide to call it a day and sleep because the girl has been up since 3.30AM and will feel better tomorrow.
Tomorrow its more of the same. Its her birthday so I give her a pre wrapped present of some nice lingerie. Nope I’m not gonna get to see it on LOL. No more lingerie presents from BigAlexBoss in the future.
Doesn’t like venice. When can we go to a different city? Its cold. Her feet hurt in those fucking high heeled boots of hers. Constantly sighing and when I ask whats up, she says its nothing etc. She insists on putting her arm through mine or holding my hand all the time. Spends 90% of the time we are in restaurants on her fucking smart phone, checking her status updates etc, a massive disrespect.
At this point I’m paying for everything but make sure she buys her own gifts, souvenirs etc and the next set of boat tickets. We visit the glass making warehouses were she keeps admiring several pieces but doesn’t buy anything, I can only assume hinting non verbally that I should buy her a couple of presents – I don’t because I am already seeing this is a losing investment and I need to cut my losses. Tells me she would love to go to the Venice casino in the evening and play the tables. I say it’s a nice idea if she dresses up for it.
Back to the hotel for a siesta, more rebuffed kino, another kiss attempt rejected and have to settle for a cheek kiss. At this point I have had enough of her attitude but for some reason don’t verbalise it. The british gentleman in me prevails - 2013 is the year I finally strangle the mofo completely because he’s an anachronism in the modern hypergamous dating reality.
Instead I get up and say I’m off to grab a quick bite of dinner and walk venice (lovely city to walk) for 3 hours until 11 PM. There was no way I was going to take her to the Casino with god knows the cash outlay that would have involved for what was apparent now would be zero reward. 0 chance of bringing a tourist bird back to mine as I had a frigid girl using up my bed.
Last day of trip we go to Padua nearby. More complaining, sighing etc. Strange moments where we are in the outdoor market, she will pass by a piece of gourmet cheese or a panetoni, mention how it would be a good present for friends and then doesn’t buy it. When I verbalise “Do you want me to get you some XXX cheese?” She sighs in frustration and walks off. I can only assume these FSU girls are used to the men buying them everything and anything they pass by and say is nice. That or I have no idea what is going on. I would have been happy to buy her one or two things if she hadn’t acted like such a bitch.
Final evening, siesta time. At this point I would have loved to parachute in one of the RVF vets (Tuth, GMAC, Mech etc) off the bench in extra time to see what they would do and if the situation was salvageable before the final whistle without using the nuclear option of splashing megacash as my pride just wouldn’t allow it.
So I decide to try my final gambit: I have a shower, dress up real nice and elegant to go out later and then lie down on the bed for an hour to annotate some work notes. She comes out of the shower and for the first time on the trip I am 100% ignoring her in favour of a mound of notes. She is subtly trying to get my attention and actually chasing rapport, asking me more questions than se has the whole trip long: “Have you ever been to Vienna etc?”
I act distracted and make her repeat the question etc, not moving my eyes from the material. For 10 more minutes she tries to seek rapport and finally I judge the time right to pull her in for a makeout, she accepts some hair stroking, minor cuddling then kiss completely rejected, pulls away.
At this point she has successfully drained my large reservoir of positivity and so I while she is checking her social media status, I casually say “Well I’m off to grab a quick dinner, I’ll see you later” for a millisecond she is genuinely surprised and then I have disappeared out the door. I get back at 12 AM and she is pretending to sleep with the lights and television on. Sleep. Take her to the train station at 4 AM. Quick hug and I am out of there, not even waiting for her train to arrive.
The Take home:
Both these top shelf Ukrainian girls have had the personalities of a rotting corpse. Irrationally moody and complete positivity drains. Roosh made mention of this in his bang guide – for me it’s a show stopper.
They offered no conversation, didn’t want to participate in role plays, imagination games etc and only showed interest in gift shops and fashion boutiques. They are the worst LTR prospects I have met, literally only being good for the bang and then its best to spend as little time with them as possible. Both girls had English in the top 5% for Ukraine and it was still not good enough to appreciate wit, humour, make interesting conversation etc. Both were social media smartphone obsessed.
Why on earth would she accept to stay with me in a double bedroom in venice in NY if she had no plans for intimacy? I would have said for the almost free Italian holiday but she complained about Venice so much that I’m not even sure that’s it. Friend zone was firmly avoided in kiev by the fact my hand was down her panties and her tongue down my throat.
I obviously haven’t got a firm grip on Slavic men/women relations yet and after his fiasco, I’m not sure I want to make the effort – Speaking Russian well is a must to forge a connection with these ice maidens. The cultural gap between western European and Ukrainian is far larger than with Yugoslavian girls (Krauser can comment here) polish girls (roosh) etc. These girls are tough to understand. Clearly you must be prepared to splash SERIOUS cash on presents/wining/dining in order to get laid, all in serious contradiction of game tenets. Don’t go on romantic holidays with these girls unless you have multiple bangs under your belt and understand the mentality required.
For a few days I couldn’t figure out why she would insist on walking everywhere with me arm in arm, yet wouldn’t let me get anywhere significant physically. It didn’t make sense. Then it dawned on me. For FSUs, if the guy is treating the girl to everything on a holiday, but she isn’t giving him any physical value via sex, kissing etc, so she goes arm in arm with him as her value offering because you GET SEEN having a very hot babe on your arm. This to the Slavic man is quality value as it elevates his position in society. Where this interchange broke down for us is that being SEEN with a hot Slavic girl means shit to me, if I’m not banging her. I would rather walk alone and be free to daygame the tourists rather than have a cockblock on my arm.
If I could quit and reload a save game, here is what I would have done different to get the bang:
1) Activate roaming before leaving spain. Didn’t realise I had to ring my phone company before leaving the company and being unable to phone her for a few hours contributed to her initial bad mood. Get these girls moody and you’re fucked because the LOGICAL SEX aint coming your way buddy.
2) On arrival day I needed to go all out for the bang and that meant getting her pissed enough to temporarily kill the LOGICAL SEX forebrain. Post demibottle of wine over dinner, she was in a good mood and probably a small present and bouncing to a bar near the hotel to get her multiple cocktails down her throat and then standard Tuth first date bang method would have just got me over the line. Problem is logistics are fucked in Venice where you have to walk everywhere and the restaurant was a half hour walk from the center by which time the emotional vibe was dead and we were in logical land again. Also I was aware I had spent over 150 euros that day alone and the idea of dropping 50 euro in a bar was not enticing.
3) Manginas and white knights look away now: After the first night when I realised her attitude was all wrong, I should have verbalised strongly and unemotionally that her behaviour was unacceptable and that she was making me think we were physically incompatible (ala bang final chapter). If she didn’t try to warm me up, there and then tell her she needs to find her own hotel room because I’m here on holiday and she is cockblocking me by being there. Do these FSU girls need their man to aggressively verbalise dissatisfaction, hint at physical force, even physically overcome resistance? My rape game isn’t up to scratch and I didn’t plan to rot to death in the same jail cell as Casanova.
So FSU experts –What would you have done differently? This is clearly an FSU >8 problem because 6s and 7s were doing all the running in Kiev, but I went to FSU to hunt big game, not meerkats. Do I need to full on hardass slavic man on these girls?
