[Ovid]

Obviously, we all know beta 'game' doesn't work. I'm not talking about desexualized 'friend zone' orbiter type stuff, but old-school chasing, where the guy shows his interest, makes florid professions of love, gives flowers and candy, sings songs underneath her window, that sort of thing. It doesn't work any more, but before feminism came along, it used to. In fact, according to the various dudes in here who've gotten their dicks wet in some pretty far-flung places, this style still gets vaginas tingling to some degree in places that aren't as indoctrinated with feminism and American/Western European culture. If you ask your grandparents how they met, you're far more likely to get a story involving the county fair and honest attraction than Grandma saying "Well, you see, your grandpa came up to me in the dance-hall, made me buy my own drink after insulting me, and then I got horny and we fucked all night to Stephen Foster songs on the Victrola."

So, this is probably something really obvious I'm overlooking, but what is it about passive feminist indoctrination that makes girls so bitchy and inclined to reject a man's more direct advances? You'd think they'd like the attention, right?

[iknowexactly]

With power comes responsibility. Women don't want it. It's not really that they're being bitchy except in the relative sense, because they can't leech the life they deserve off you.

American women feel life should be like a slightly pornographic Disney movie: chasing butterflies in the fields, then sailing out in a beautiful 50 foot sailboat in the sunset. Then a scented bath in a 10 foot-bathtub with a view out over the bay from the 4000 square foot bathroom, followed by an opulent dinner elsewhere in the castle, then being tied up in bed by the handsome naughty Prince who makes her have ten orgasms.

After a while, she'll have two perfect children each with their own nanny, who will be sent to the best private schools.

Why don't you give her this?- instead of that tiresome emotional guilt and drama? It only costs about 10-20 million dollars..

Don't you GET IT?

[blackglasses]

Another version: you grandpa was posted on a wall custom suited we had a smoke and chatted before we bounced to his condo.

[iknowexactly]

(12-21-2012 12:41 PM)blackglasses Wrote:  

Another version: you grandpa was posted on a wall custom suited we had a smoke and chatted before we bounced to his condo.

Haha, yes, the Prince hasn't called in weeks, get her drunk and maybe she'll accept the condo trip.

[Kabal]

My personal (but by no means unique) hypothesis is that once the resource attainment quota is satisfied for a girl and her potential offspring, she will look beyond beta provisioning in a mate.

I.e., western women (particularly American women) make enough money to support herself and her potential offspring, thus it flips a trigger in her id to prefer mates with qualities beyond, or orthogonal to, traditional beta provisioning qualities.

There is a degree of cultural diffusion as well. Since women are more conformist and herd-like (or more euphemistically, harbor a greater elasticity to cultural norms), it would only require a critical mass of women who make an adequate amount of money to be self-sufficient and thus prefer "alpha" qualities, for the preference for "alphas" to diffuse throughout women of all socio-economic strata.

However, women are still hypergamous. Thus, even if they make a "sufficient" amount of money, they will still prefer a higher-earning mate. In America, one can leverage this by retaining traditional beta qualities for resource provisioning, while sporting archetypal "alpha" qualities--thus bringing us full circle to the "alpha provider."

[Apollo2]

The “1950s courtship model” is dead in America but still very much applicable even today outside of Western countries.

Women everywhere submit to more dominant men. And modern American women – being the most dominant of all women – naturally need to submit to an even more dominant man to satiate their reptilian hindbrains.

In patriarchal, non-feminized cultures where men still command respect, a man is assumed alpha until he proves otherwise.

In the feminized West where men are scorned, a man is assumed beta until he proves otherwise.

This is why American women lust for exaggerated caricatures of hypermasculinity – really tall guys, roid monkeys, thugs, outlaws, criminals, drug dealers etc. These are the only guys who project dominance on sight.

Every other guy is assumed beta by default. So serenading, candy, flowers, expensive dinners, excessive chivalry is seen as "weak" and "supplicating." It repels modern American women.

The threshold for dominance is much higher in America today than anywhere in the civilized world.

And this is why to have success with American women, American men today must:

(1) Exert physical dominance: hit the gym (build muscles, raise testosterone levels)

(2) Exert psychosocial dominance: learn game (how to carry oneself in a calm authoritative manner, handle shit tests) to project masculinity

Interesting to note that American men do well with foreign women, yet foreign (non-Western) guys fail spectacularly with American women.

Reason for this? Foreign guys can't handle American women.

[beta_plus]

The best explanation I read was that old school beta game had nothing to do with generating attraction in the girl. It was to reassure her parents that you as a male were emotionally invested in their daughter and intended to support her and her offspring. Since all men had "structural alpha" status by being able to produce wealth which she could not, that was enough.

I saw this on another manosphere blog and I can't remember which (maybe Heartiste), or I would provide a proper reference.

[Cincinnatus]

(12-21-2012 12:51 PM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

Reason for this? Foreign guys can't handle American women.

I think it's more like foreign guys don't want American women.

Any place with attractive women to friendly males leaves western women extremely pissed off. American women in eastern Europe, southeast Asia, etc. tend to be lonely and bitter.

American men overseas are too busy banging feminine local women to deal with masculine American women. Foreign men generally aren't fond of American bitches (except Italian men).

[xsplat]

I don't have any experience overseas with the old school courtship models, so don't know if that works in my location.

It seems to be that if people hear of romance, they automatically think of the old school seduction style of professing love with chocolates and flowers. I doubt that's a good strategy anywhere.

What I'm more familiar with is using most of the seduction techniques already talked about on this forum, but also being emotionally open. Not just trying to be Mr. Right Now, nor only trying to be Mr. Right, but being honestly into the girl and being high value and dominant and thrilling and a great fuck and funny and passionate and warm and engaging and having strong boundaries and doing push pull and using NLP and getting her into a whirlwind of romance and lust with you.

If a guy is feeling bliss and mojo and lust and even love in his body in a way that is grounded, women can get attracted to that vibe, and vibe with it.

It's a shame that we only have the mental map to talk about such emotions from the point of view of the beta experience.

We can also have emotions from a more dominant and experienced and effective viewpoint.

There is the aloof bad boy alpha persona, and we've heard countless testimonials to it's effectiveness. There is also the Don Juan De La Marco lover of women persona. The charismatic passionate high libido man of the world. Many people naturally embody that persona, but the thing is that the current seduction theory doesn't yet embrace that alternate and at least as effective style.

Passionate men who enjoy bonding and LTRs also require all the game skills we talk about, and we all know of the obvious pit falls they fall into. But rarely is it discussed the many powerful advantages they can wield over women - especially when it comes to getting her deeply emotionally invested.

A long term strategy is to integrate both the passionate side of the man with the player side. Two wings of the bird.

[xsplat]

(12-21-2012 03:12 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 12:51 PM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

Reason for this? Foreign guys can't handle American women.

I think it's more like foreign guys don't want American women.

Any place with attractive women to friendly males leaves western women extremely pissed off. American women in eastern Europe, southeast Asia, etc. tend to be lonely and bitter.

American men overseas are too busy banging feminine local women to deal with masculine American women. Foreign men generally aren't fond of American bitches (except Italian men).

Ya, American women in SEA are all but completely ignored by their compatriots. It's not just a matter of oversupply of options, either. It's that there are any options at all, and American women generally aren't even TRYING to compete. Really, really, really fucking lazy at seduction, as if they are not even aware that being seductive is part of the job description. Why would anyone bother with them? We don't.

And most look like football players. Gigantic, oversized, masculine beasts.

Whenever I see older male tourists with their same aged big fat old broads as life companions I just look briefly, as if I just saw a car crash, then look over at my companion, and then walk on by. Those couples always seem so lifeless and grey. Man, if only those men knew their options! I guess it's a good thing for me that they don't.

Uugggghhh and shudder. The level of entitlement in Western girls. Even old married matrons out here aren't THAT bad.

I remember in Chiang Mai I approached some hot brunette at the Bubbles dance club, and she looked at me up and down like I was a walking insult. She gave me "the sneer", and pantomimed in her body language "who the fuck are you to even think about approaching me?! Me!"

In another venue a hottie and her obese and ugly oder woman friend had been socially cordial, only to later openly mock me, at an expat friendly full moon party in Chiang Mai. I think I had brought my dime with me that day, and was also in good form socially, mingling.

At a bar/lounge venue a 4 that I was chatting up also gave me the American-snub one night. Apparently she was interested in the birthday boy of the venue, the lead singer who was playing that night in the club, and who was also an author, and also had a girlfriend, who was with him at the time. Me trying to chat her up left her disgusted. Jeesus - she was just a 4, and I was bored, and I had 3 other girlfriends at the time.

In SEA you get attractive and very young women on billboards. Women compete. They put in the effort. They aren't rude right to your fucking face about the fact that you want to fuck them.

I know I've argued that all women have romantic triggers in them somewhere, but I can empathize with some guys not wanting to even bother finding them. Obnoxious hypergamous twats with no sense of using their sexuality in a socially graceful way.

Aggressive, entitled, sloppy, manly. Bitchy.

And when they realize the competition, they don't reform. They just complain to each other in coffee clatches, and dream of returning home. Or date a local boy. God forbid they should learn to adapt and work on being attractive in the way men want, as the local girls do so expertly.

In some profound and important ways, some western girls are just plain broken. Who are they fighting, and why? Shudder.

[Parlay44]

If a woman wants to be taken care of for life, the best type of guy would be one with infinite resources and zero options.
They could lock down his options by banding together and being moral(not sluts). But women these days just can't do that.
By fucking 100 guys before settling down they flood the market with cheap or free pussy. This lowers the market value of sex
and themselves in general.