redacted
First gun or rifle recc's?
I would start by going out and shooting some guns chambered in the popular calibers. Try a .45 and 9mm pistol and shoot something chambered in 5.56 and 7.62x51 nato and .22 lr. The 22 will have almost no recoil and is a fairly small round. They are dirt cheap and widely available. Most people's first gun is chambered in this caliber. The 5.56mm(.223 caliber) is the round used by the US military and others in the m-16. It is a low recoil round that was adopted so the combat load could be increased to a higher number of rounds and so that "soldiers of lesser stature" aka women would not have a gun that they could not handle. Shooting a buddies ar-15 chambered in this caliber should be fun and is a good introduction to rifles in general. 7.62x51 nato (.308) is a widely used round that has many hunting and military applications keep in mind it will have more recoil than either of the other two. Many militaries around the world have adopted this chambering for their standard issue battle rifle. See if you can try to fire a fn fal, h&k g3, ar-10 or m1a. The m1a is the civilian variant of the m14 which was the main battle rifle of the US before we switched to the m16 in vietnam.
There are a multitude of options available and it can be overwhelming at first. I would make a friend with alot of guns and go out to the farm somtime and have him give you a run down of how to fire, clean, and handle the guns safely.
There are a multitude of options available and it can be overwhelming at first. I would make a friend with alot of guns and go out to the farm somtime and have him give you a run down of how to fire, clean, and handle the guns safely.
First, my background: 10 years and change active duty Army, 6 of which were in the infantry. I now work as a security contractor overseas. I'm not terribly familiar with revolvers but have experience with the Glock 9mm and .40 caliber pistols and the AR-15 (or M4). I have no experience with hunting animals.
When choosing your pistol or rifle first objectively define what the weapon is going to be used for...home defense, everyday carry, hunting, SHTF running and gunning? Any reputable gun store should take your concerns into consideration and not push a particular model until they have a good feel for what you want to do with the weapon. Unfortunately I have ran into many LGS's (Local Gun Stores) where the staff was either lacking in knowledge, or condescending to a new shooter. Sometimes both. If you encounter this, leave and don't give them your business. Choosing a firearm that may save your life one day is a highly personal decision and one not to be taken lightly.
n0000 had good advice about trying a bunch of different guns to see what works for you. For example, the ergonomics of Glock and the Smith & Wesson M&P are quite different. Even though some may say the Glock is the better pistol (which I believe it is), if it is totally uncomfortable for you to shoot you're not going to practice and be competent, rendering the pistol a very expensive paperweight and a potential liability. Same goes for rifles.
Pistols: Like mentioned above, 9mm is a popular caliber due to its light recoil, availability, and price. I am a fan of Glocks because I carry one everyday both at work and home and have seen it work reliably in shitty conditions. But the Smith & Wesson (S&W) M&P pistols have gotten good reviews from my friends in the industry as well. Try both out to see what you like. .40 and .45 are two other popular handgun calibers that do more damage to tissue but come with reduced magazine capacity, higher recoil, and higher price. I would start with a 9mm if defensive applications are your concern. Another thing to consider is purchasing an inexpensive .22 caliber pistol to practice fundamentals of marksmanship (grip, trigger control, stance, breath control, etc.). Fundamentals are fundamentals are fundamentals. .22 has next to zero recoil and is cheap as shit, so in my opinion that's a good option to practice your fundamentals of shooting.
If you decide you really like shooting your pistol, check your area for IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) clubs and go to a match. They're a lot of fun and provide fairly realistic training compared to going to a range and blasting 200 rounds off in a static position. If you have to use your weapon for real, you're probably not going to be in a static position (at least I hope not).
Rifles: The AR-15 platform is one that has been proven to work quite well over the years. The last 12 years of war have brought numerous rifle manufacturers to the forefront and have exposed AR problems and people have found solutions. There are many manufacturers to choose from, the ergonomics are going to be pretty much the same on stock rifles. Higher end names are ones like Noveske (which I have), Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM), and Daniel Defense. Lower-end rifles (but many stand by them) are Bushmaster, Stag, Rock River Arms (RRA), and Olympic Arms. Of course there are many more. If you're serious about getting a "hard use" rifle that will last forever with proper maintenance, I would go with a BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske or Colt. You usually get what you pay for.
Accessories: Don't get all whiz-bang on vertical forward grips, optics, or fancy buttstocks right away. Become proficient with iron sights first, then get your EOTech or whatever....what if the batteries die or you can't get any? I've seen people in courses with sexy $4000 dollar rifles that passed my boner test but the operator couldn't shoot for shit. Once again, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Training: INVEST IN QUALITY TRAINING. In my opinion, this is where the major liability of firearms ownership comes in (convoluted sentence). Many weapons owners purchase their Gen 4 Glock 19, get a shitty velcro holster, go to a crappy CCW class, throw it on their belt thinking they're good to go. If these idiots don't get their gun taken from them by the bad guy in the first place, they're going to be throwing bad rounds (AKA liabilities) downrange. Also, going to a class gives you an idea how to use your time at the range effectively so you're not wasting your time and money by building bad habits, throwing bad rounds, and getting frustrated.
Some more websites you might want to check out:
http://www.m4carbine.net forums (especially the AR-15, Semi-Auto Handguns, Revolvers, and TRAINING subforums)
http://www.idpa.com
http://www.nra.com (for basic safety instructors near you)
I cannot stress enough the need to get proper training. Please, please, PLEASE be an asset to society if you decide to own a firearm, not a liability. If you want more information don't hesitate to PM me. I'm not the best gunslinger out there but training and firearms are things I'm passionate about and I can point you in the right direction if I don't have an answer for you.
Two last things that have stuck with me from instructors in the past:
"Advanced shooting is nothing more than perfect execution of the fundamentals under stress."
"Amateurs talk gear and caliber, professionals talk training and mindset."
EDITED TO ADD: Another quote from former Delta operator Pat McNamara, from whom I was fortunate enough to receive pistol training, on shooting fast and accurate: "The probability of achieving the outcome you desire will increase once you let go of the need to have it." Applicable in shooting AND game! Holy shit!
Hope that helps.
When choosing your pistol or rifle first objectively define what the weapon is going to be used for...home defense, everyday carry, hunting, SHTF running and gunning? Any reputable gun store should take your concerns into consideration and not push a particular model until they have a good feel for what you want to do with the weapon. Unfortunately I have ran into many LGS's (Local Gun Stores) where the staff was either lacking in knowledge, or condescending to a new shooter. Sometimes both. If you encounter this, leave and don't give them your business. Choosing a firearm that may save your life one day is a highly personal decision and one not to be taken lightly.
n0000 had good advice about trying a bunch of different guns to see what works for you. For example, the ergonomics of Glock and the Smith & Wesson M&P are quite different. Even though some may say the Glock is the better pistol (which I believe it is), if it is totally uncomfortable for you to shoot you're not going to practice and be competent, rendering the pistol a very expensive paperweight and a potential liability. Same goes for rifles.
Pistols: Like mentioned above, 9mm is a popular caliber due to its light recoil, availability, and price. I am a fan of Glocks because I carry one everyday both at work and home and have seen it work reliably in shitty conditions. But the Smith & Wesson (S&W) M&P pistols have gotten good reviews from my friends in the industry as well. Try both out to see what you like. .40 and .45 are two other popular handgun calibers that do more damage to tissue but come with reduced magazine capacity, higher recoil, and higher price. I would start with a 9mm if defensive applications are your concern. Another thing to consider is purchasing an inexpensive .22 caliber pistol to practice fundamentals of marksmanship (grip, trigger control, stance, breath control, etc.). Fundamentals are fundamentals are fundamentals. .22 has next to zero recoil and is cheap as shit, so in my opinion that's a good option to practice your fundamentals of shooting.
If you decide you really like shooting your pistol, check your area for IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) clubs and go to a match. They're a lot of fun and provide fairly realistic training compared to going to a range and blasting 200 rounds off in a static position. If you have to use your weapon for real, you're probably not going to be in a static position (at least I hope not).
Rifles: The AR-15 platform is one that has been proven to work quite well over the years. The last 12 years of war have brought numerous rifle manufacturers to the forefront and have exposed AR problems and people have found solutions. There are many manufacturers to choose from, the ergonomics are going to be pretty much the same on stock rifles. Higher end names are ones like Noveske (which I have), Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM), and Daniel Defense. Lower-end rifles (but many stand by them) are Bushmaster, Stag, Rock River Arms (RRA), and Olympic Arms. Of course there are many more. If you're serious about getting a "hard use" rifle that will last forever with proper maintenance, I would go with a BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske or Colt. You usually get what you pay for.
Accessories: Don't get all whiz-bang on vertical forward grips, optics, or fancy buttstocks right away. Become proficient with iron sights first, then get your EOTech or whatever....what if the batteries die or you can't get any? I've seen people in courses with sexy $4000 dollar rifles that passed my boner test but the operator couldn't shoot for shit. Once again, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Training: INVEST IN QUALITY TRAINING. In my opinion, this is where the major liability of firearms ownership comes in (convoluted sentence). Many weapons owners purchase their Gen 4 Glock 19, get a shitty velcro holster, go to a crappy CCW class, throw it on their belt thinking they're good to go. If these idiots don't get their gun taken from them by the bad guy in the first place, they're going to be throwing bad rounds (AKA liabilities) downrange. Also, going to a class gives you an idea how to use your time at the range effectively so you're not wasting your time and money by building bad habits, throwing bad rounds, and getting frustrated.
Some more websites you might want to check out:
http://www.m4carbine.net forums (especially the AR-15, Semi-Auto Handguns, Revolvers, and TRAINING subforums)
http://www.idpa.com
http://www.nra.com (for basic safety instructors near you)
I cannot stress enough the need to get proper training. Please, please, PLEASE be an asset to society if you decide to own a firearm, not a liability. If you want more information don't hesitate to PM me. I'm not the best gunslinger out there but training and firearms are things I'm passionate about and I can point you in the right direction if I don't have an answer for you.
Two last things that have stuck with me from instructors in the past:
"Advanced shooting is nothing more than perfect execution of the fundamentals under stress."
"Amateurs talk gear and caliber, professionals talk training and mindset."
EDITED TO ADD: Another quote from former Delta operator Pat McNamara, from whom I was fortunate enough to receive pistol training, on shooting fast and accurate: "The probability of achieving the outcome you desire will increase once you let go of the need to have it." Applicable in shooting AND game! Holy shit!
Hope that helps.
"Okay (and I'm laughing now, because this is so funny), so we're A) not supposed to give you flowers, B) pay you compliments, or C) look at you. Anything else? Because I'm struggling to figure out the reason why after hearing that, I'm feeling like I'd rather get fucked in the ass by a Cape Buffalo than ever have to sit through dinner with you. Maybe you can figure it out for me. When you do, let me know. I'll be at Natasha's house."
Forgot to add:
Please store your weapon properly in your home, especially if you have children. I believe it's ok to introduce children to firearms early so they learn to respect them, but common sense dictates that they should not be accessible to kids.
If you have questions on proper storage methods or available lockboxes don't hesitate to PM me. This is extremely important, thanks!
Please store your weapon properly in your home, especially if you have children. I believe it's ok to introduce children to firearms early so they learn to respect them, but common sense dictates that they should not be accessible to kids.
If you have questions on proper storage methods or available lockboxes don't hesitate to PM me. This is extremely important, thanks!
"Okay (and I'm laughing now, because this is so funny), so we're A) not supposed to give you flowers, B) pay you compliments, or C) look at you. Anything else? Because I'm struggling to figure out the reason why after hearing that, I'm feeling like I'd rather get fucked in the ass by a Cape Buffalo than ever have to sit through dinner with you. Maybe you can figure it out for me. When you do, let me know. I'll be at Natasha's house."
Oh yeah you should take a look at this video. Keep in mind that even though one person tells you a particular way of doing things and he may sound authoritative there are different schools of thought on pretty much all aspects of gun owning. For example, the Israelis train their guys to carry a pistol with no round in the chamber and they practice racking the slide as part of drawing the weapon. There are several different stances when using a pistol as well.
Being a responsible gun owner is really important. Make sure you are well trained, competent and careful when handling these things. 100% of negligent discharges are preventable by following some basic rules. When you receive a weapon, eject the mag and pull back the bolt to inspect the chamber in order to verify that it is unloaded. Never take anyones word for it. As the recent incident in connecticut shows it, it is important to always secure your weapons properly. Firearms are a manly hobby to get into and guns will hold their value pretty well compared to most of the things guys dump money into. The 20k car you buy and dump 20k more in parts into will probably only be worth 10k a couple of years from now.
Being a responsible gun owner is really important. Make sure you are well trained, competent and careful when handling these things. 100% of negligent discharges are preventable by following some basic rules. When you receive a weapon, eject the mag and pull back the bolt to inspect the chamber in order to verify that it is unloaded. Never take anyones word for it. As the recent incident in connecticut shows it, it is important to always secure your weapons properly. Firearms are a manly hobby to get into and guns will hold their value pretty well compared to most of the things guys dump money into. The 20k car you buy and dump 20k more in parts into will probably only be worth 10k a couple of years from now.
I prefer:
.45- Great knockdown power.
.357- Can use .38 rounds for cheaper shooting.
12 Gauge
7.62-
5.56 is fine too, but I like still prefer the .308.
When searching for a pistol, I look for something that give a natural point of aim. The moment I picked up the Glock 30, I knew it was the winner. Some pistols feel clumsy, and need more training or adjustment before firing. That time can be crucial.
Springfield Armory makes some fine M1A rifles. There are too many AR-15 makers to list, and I'm behind on hardware knowledge. Benelli, IMO, makes the best shotguns. Remington makes great 700 series rifles, that can be built for tack driving accuracy.
Can't speak much on revolvers either.
As deuce said, training is everything.
.45- Great knockdown power.
.357- Can use .38 rounds for cheaper shooting.
12 Gauge
7.62-
5.56 is fine too, but I like still prefer the .308.
When searching for a pistol, I look for something that give a natural point of aim. The moment I picked up the Glock 30, I knew it was the winner. Some pistols feel clumsy, and need more training or adjustment before firing. That time can be crucial.
Springfield Armory makes some fine M1A rifles. There are too many AR-15 makers to list, and I'm behind on hardware knowledge. Benelli, IMO, makes the best shotguns. Remington makes great 700 series rifles, that can be built for tack driving accuracy.
Can't speak much on revolvers either.
As deuce said, training is everything.
Quote: (12-20-2012 12:18 PM)n0000 Wrote:
even though one person tells you a particular way of doing things and he may sound authoritative there are different schools of thought on pretty much all aspects of gun owning.
100% agree. Do what works for you.
"Okay (and I'm laughing now, because this is so funny), so we're A) not supposed to give you flowers, B) pay you compliments, or C) look at you. Anything else? Because I'm struggling to figure out the reason why after hearing that, I'm feeling like I'd rather get fucked in the ass by a Cape Buffalo than ever have to sit through dinner with you. Maybe you can figure it out for me. When you do, let me know. I'll be at Natasha's house."
My personal preferences:
Walther PPS, .40 S&W - Nice middle ground between 9mm and .45 ACP. Great for concealed carry.
.45 Model 1911 - Classic pistol carried by the U.S. military for generations. Not ideal for concealed carry.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30 - Inexpensive Russian surplus rifle. I bought mine in 2007 for $100.00 + tax.
Remington 870 - Pump action shotgun popular with sportsmen, police, and the miliary.
Remington 10/22 - Common, inexpensive rifle popular for taking out small pests and paper plate targets.
Walther PPS, .40 S&W - Nice middle ground between 9mm and .45 ACP. Great for concealed carry.
.45 Model 1911 - Classic pistol carried by the U.S. military for generations. Not ideal for concealed carry.
Mosin-Nagant M91/30 - Inexpensive Russian surplus rifle. I bought mine in 2007 for $100.00 + tax.
Remington 870 - Pump action shotgun popular with sportsmen, police, and the miliary.
Remington 10/22 - Common, inexpensive rifle popular for taking out small pests and paper plate targets.
Is that your 10/22?
I've owned my 10/22 over five years ago and pretty much kept it factory-spec.
I've owned my 10/22 over five years ago and pretty much kept it factory-spec.
1. Get a .22 to learn how to shoot, if you don't have any firearms experience. The Ruger 10/22 is a great gun. Accurate, reliable, and semi-automatic is nice because it gives you quick follow-up shots if you need them.
2. Your gun needs will vary depending on the situation. One can read hundreds of thousands of pages on the Internet where guys debate the pros and cons of virtually every gun ever made, compare them, debate stopping power, bullet weight and shape to tissue damage, etc.
For hunting, much will depend on the game and local laws -in one place, a certain caliber or type of rifle might be preferred, in another, the same combination is outlawed.
For self -defense, your choice of gun will depend on whether or not you plan to carry it. Common calibers considered acceptably potent for self-defense in a pistol or carbine (a rifle shooting pistol-caliber bullets) are: .45acp, .40 S&W, .357 magnum, .357 SIG, 9mm, .38 special, .380acp, and .32acp. The latter two are considered by some to be marginal due to their lack of power, but are common chamberings for lightweight and highly-concealable carry pistols, and were used by European armies and police for many decades.
If you plan to shoot regularly, a semi-auto pistol has a higher capacity, but a more complicated operating procedure which must be mastered and practiced so that it is intuitive. If you do not see yourself practicing regularly, you're probably better off with a revolver, especially if the gun will mainly sit in a drawer somewhere for home defense. Revolvers offer limited capacity (6 shots vs 7-17+ with semi-autos) but they usually only require you to pull the trigger to operate them, will reliably fire even if untouched for 30 years, and can be fired from inside a pocket, when pressed up against an assailant, when one's grip on the gun isn't optimal, etc.
Semi-auto battle rifles come in many flavors, but I think one would be hard-pressed to find anything better than the classic AR-15 (semi-auto version of the military M16) or the AK-47, famously used by the Soviets and exported all over the world. They're both good, reliable guns, and these days can be had for roughly similar prices, at least in the US. It's really a matter of preference, Google will give you reams about both.
Personally, I'd get an AK-74 (modernized AK-47 shooting a lighter but still very effective cartridge). In semi-auto pistols, a Glock 17 or 19 (very popular and reliable 9mm) or a Glock 31 (full-sized pistol shooting .357 Sig, which replicates the very effective man-stopping .357 magnum revolver round). For concealed carry, take a look at the Ruger LCP. For a revolver, I would recommend a used Smith & Wesson Model 10. Pleasant ergonomics, no frills, but a beautiful gun nonetheless, shooting .38spl.
2. Your gun needs will vary depending on the situation. One can read hundreds of thousands of pages on the Internet where guys debate the pros and cons of virtually every gun ever made, compare them, debate stopping power, bullet weight and shape to tissue damage, etc.
For hunting, much will depend on the game and local laws -in one place, a certain caliber or type of rifle might be preferred, in another, the same combination is outlawed.
For self -defense, your choice of gun will depend on whether or not you plan to carry it. Common calibers considered acceptably potent for self-defense in a pistol or carbine (a rifle shooting pistol-caliber bullets) are: .45acp, .40 S&W, .357 magnum, .357 SIG, 9mm, .38 special, .380acp, and .32acp. The latter two are considered by some to be marginal due to their lack of power, but are common chamberings for lightweight and highly-concealable carry pistols, and were used by European armies and police for many decades.
If you plan to shoot regularly, a semi-auto pistol has a higher capacity, but a more complicated operating procedure which must be mastered and practiced so that it is intuitive. If you do not see yourself practicing regularly, you're probably better off with a revolver, especially if the gun will mainly sit in a drawer somewhere for home defense. Revolvers offer limited capacity (6 shots vs 7-17+ with semi-autos) but they usually only require you to pull the trigger to operate them, will reliably fire even if untouched for 30 years, and can be fired from inside a pocket, when pressed up against an assailant, when one's grip on the gun isn't optimal, etc.
Semi-auto battle rifles come in many flavors, but I think one would be hard-pressed to find anything better than the classic AR-15 (semi-auto version of the military M16) or the AK-47, famously used by the Soviets and exported all over the world. They're both good, reliable guns, and these days can be had for roughly similar prices, at least in the US. It's really a matter of preference, Google will give you reams about both.
Personally, I'd get an AK-74 (modernized AK-47 shooting a lighter but still very effective cartridge). In semi-auto pistols, a Glock 17 or 19 (very popular and reliable 9mm) or a Glock 31 (full-sized pistol shooting .357 Sig, which replicates the very effective man-stopping .357 magnum revolver round). For concealed carry, take a look at the Ruger LCP. For a revolver, I would recommend a used Smith & Wesson Model 10. Pleasant ergonomics, no frills, but a beautiful gun nonetheless, shooting .38spl.
I've got a Beretta 96G Elite (.40 S&W.) I actually got it back when I knew jack shit about guns. All I knew is that I wanted a Beretta full size in .40S&W, the heavy Brigadier slide seemed like a good idea, and I also wanted the "G" feature which makes the safety lever a "decock only" lever. So that's what the shop I bought it from ordered. Beretta didn't even have the gun on their site at the time. The Brigadier slide was developed when Beretta was vying for a contract with INS, which they lost out on after they turned out a bunch of slides and they had to do something with them. So they decided to make a gun that was optimized for IDPA competition, which is how they arrived at the Elite, then the Elite IA, and finally the Elite II. One other feature of the Brigadier slide is that it is dovetailed front and back because the INS also wanted a removable front sight. Standard 92/96 pistols at the time used a fixed front sight. Having the dovetails makes it so the sights can be changed by someone with minimal gunsmith skills. I paid $575 for mine brand new in December '99. I had Meprolight Tritium night sights installed a year or two later. The night sights are about dead at this point due to radioactive decay, but that's normal. Elite series pistols are among the most highly sought after Beretta full size pistols. I could easily sell mine for $650. Gmanifesto uses a picture of a Beretta Elite II as his avatar. He has ignored my inquiries about whether or not he owns this gun, and what prompted him to select that instead of countless other examples out there.
My mother has a Glock G19. This is the medium size Glock 9MM. A Glock lacks the elegant appearance of a Beretta, but in return it is simple, RELIABLE, and has good ergonomics. All of these things are more important than looks. About once or twice a year they'll do runs of the "C" models. The "C" means that it has a compensated or ported barrel and slide. My best friend had a G17C years ago. Those things have NO recoil. Some gun people piss and moan about this feature saying that the flash can fuck with your eyes, but I think the reduces recoil makes up for the increased flash. If I were going to buy another handgun today, it would be a Glock, and probably a G19. They all have dovetailed rear sights, and most have a screw in front sight. My mother's G19 has an unusual front sight that looks like it snaps into place. I've never seen another like it, but it should be easy enough to remove.
The AR-15 has become the number one selling centerfire rifle in the US for a reason. It is an excellent and versatile rifle. The better brands are very well made and accurate right out of the box. I used to have an AWB-era (made during the Assault weapons ban) Colt AR-15 HBAR. The lower receiver was blocked to prevent conversion to full auto. It had no flash supressor, nor any provision for one, and it also had no bayonet lug. I sold it 5 years ago because I was stupid. I figured I would just go out and replace it with one made after the restrictions had been lifted, but I never got around to it. If I had the extra cash, I'd get one of the M4 style guns with the removable carry handle and collapsible stock.
For hunting feral hogs? AR-15 without a doubt. Feral hog hunting usually takes place in areas where you have to trek through a lot of heavy brush and a traditional hunting rifle is not as easily managed.
As Deuce already said, there's a lot of accessories out there for the AR-15. This is a recent development in the past 10 years. But with the accessory market flooded, it also means there are some good ones, and a lot of crap that's a waste of money. But before you spend any money on accessories, you should first learn to shoot with the iron sights. It's not a skill you want to have to develop in a time of need.
A semi-auto rimfire(.22lr) rifle is one of the wisest choices a gun a owner can make. I'm not talking about one of those kits to make your AR-15 shoot .22lr. I'm talking about a dedicated .22lr. IMO, there are only two choices: Ruger 10/22, or the Marlin Model 60. The Marlin 60 is second only to the AK-47 in terms of the number that have been manufactured over the years. Both the Marlin and 10/22 have their advantages and disadvantages. The Marlin is usually about $70-$80 less than the Ruger. Hands down, out of the box, the Marlin is way more accurate, and I'm not saying that because I have a Marlin. That's an opinion even many Ruger owners accept. The downsides to the Marlin are the tube fed magazines. If you lose it or damage it, replacements are difficult to come by. The build quality can be a little shoddy. I got my Marlin up and running for the first time in 20 years a few weeks ago (I lost the magazine tube back in high school) so I've had it apart several times in recent weeks. It's starting to feel a little loose in the stock when I reassemble it, and I don't like that. The last problem is that despite their popularity in terms of sheer numbers produced and sold, there's virtually no aftermarket support for the rifle. So if you need parts, you're at the mercy of Marlin's customer service which is hit or miss. But as I said, out of the box, they are very accurate. There's a reason why they reign supreme at Appleseed events.
You know how you can pick up a catalog and order a bunch of parts and build a Harley Davidson clone, that looks, sounds, and feels like a HD, but not one single part is actually a HD part? You can do the same thing with a Ruger 10/22. You can build one out of aftermarket parts and have one as good, and usually better than the original. Literally, every single part of the rifle is available aftermarket, they generally work together. Some work very well together. So if you remember what I said about the accuracy of the 10/22, you'll know this really isn't a problem because there are numerous options available to not only correct the accuracy, but to make it vastly superior to the Marlin or any other .22lr. The Ruger is also more compact than the Marlin, and trivial parts like the box magazines are available just about everywhere. You can also change a 10/22 barrel with minimal gunsmith skill and common hand tools. The biggest downside to the 10/22 is the initial cost.
The thing to remember about either rifle is that in the right hands, you won't go hungry.
My mother has a Glock G19. This is the medium size Glock 9MM. A Glock lacks the elegant appearance of a Beretta, but in return it is simple, RELIABLE, and has good ergonomics. All of these things are more important than looks. About once or twice a year they'll do runs of the "C" models. The "C" means that it has a compensated or ported barrel and slide. My best friend had a G17C years ago. Those things have NO recoil. Some gun people piss and moan about this feature saying that the flash can fuck with your eyes, but I think the reduces recoil makes up for the increased flash. If I were going to buy another handgun today, it would be a Glock, and probably a G19. They all have dovetailed rear sights, and most have a screw in front sight. My mother's G19 has an unusual front sight that looks like it snaps into place. I've never seen another like it, but it should be easy enough to remove.
The AR-15 has become the number one selling centerfire rifle in the US for a reason. It is an excellent and versatile rifle. The better brands are very well made and accurate right out of the box. I used to have an AWB-era (made during the Assault weapons ban) Colt AR-15 HBAR. The lower receiver was blocked to prevent conversion to full auto. It had no flash supressor, nor any provision for one, and it also had no bayonet lug. I sold it 5 years ago because I was stupid. I figured I would just go out and replace it with one made after the restrictions had been lifted, but I never got around to it. If I had the extra cash, I'd get one of the M4 style guns with the removable carry handle and collapsible stock.
For hunting feral hogs? AR-15 without a doubt. Feral hog hunting usually takes place in areas where you have to trek through a lot of heavy brush and a traditional hunting rifle is not as easily managed.
As Deuce already said, there's a lot of accessories out there for the AR-15. This is a recent development in the past 10 years. But with the accessory market flooded, it also means there are some good ones, and a lot of crap that's a waste of money. But before you spend any money on accessories, you should first learn to shoot with the iron sights. It's not a skill you want to have to develop in a time of need.
A semi-auto rimfire(.22lr) rifle is one of the wisest choices a gun a owner can make. I'm not talking about one of those kits to make your AR-15 shoot .22lr. I'm talking about a dedicated .22lr. IMO, there are only two choices: Ruger 10/22, or the Marlin Model 60. The Marlin 60 is second only to the AK-47 in terms of the number that have been manufactured over the years. Both the Marlin and 10/22 have their advantages and disadvantages. The Marlin is usually about $70-$80 less than the Ruger. Hands down, out of the box, the Marlin is way more accurate, and I'm not saying that because I have a Marlin. That's an opinion even many Ruger owners accept. The downsides to the Marlin are the tube fed magazines. If you lose it or damage it, replacements are difficult to come by. The build quality can be a little shoddy. I got my Marlin up and running for the first time in 20 years a few weeks ago (I lost the magazine tube back in high school) so I've had it apart several times in recent weeks. It's starting to feel a little loose in the stock when I reassemble it, and I don't like that. The last problem is that despite their popularity in terms of sheer numbers produced and sold, there's virtually no aftermarket support for the rifle. So if you need parts, you're at the mercy of Marlin's customer service which is hit or miss. But as I said, out of the box, they are very accurate. There's a reason why they reign supreme at Appleseed events.
You know how you can pick up a catalog and order a bunch of parts and build a Harley Davidson clone, that looks, sounds, and feels like a HD, but not one single part is actually a HD part? You can do the same thing with a Ruger 10/22. You can build one out of aftermarket parts and have one as good, and usually better than the original. Literally, every single part of the rifle is available aftermarket, they generally work together. Some work very well together. So if you remember what I said about the accuracy of the 10/22, you'll know this really isn't a problem because there are numerous options available to not only correct the accuracy, but to make it vastly superior to the Marlin or any other .22lr. The Ruger is also more compact than the Marlin, and trivial parts like the box magazines are available just about everywhere. You can also change a 10/22 barrel with minimal gunsmith skill and common hand tools. The biggest downside to the 10/22 is the initial cost.
The thing to remember about either rifle is that in the right hands, you won't go hungry.
Pistol Caliber Carbine/Handgun combo discussion
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shtf-surviv...-shtf.html
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shtf-surviv...-shtf.html
Don't just buy a gun, buy it's reputation for reliability. The Glock is the AK 47 of pistols. The Smith & Wesson M&P is a close second. I happen to own three of the latter. Stick with 9mm because of availability of ammo, price, and extremely manageable recoil. A .38 caliber revolver is a good house gun for the females that may be in your house to protect themselves. Why? Because it's so simple to use. When you select a long gun (rifle or shotgun) think about where you are. If you're in a suburb, or urban area stay away from the "black rifle" (scary looking assault weapons). If you shoot someone with a shotgun, or rifle in your home with a weapon that has a wooden stock it doesn't look as offensive to the delicate sensibilities. If it goes before a grand jury it'll just look like a gun that someone's grandfather had around the house. If you have "assault weapon" looking things around, the sheeple may think that you're you're some gun nut looking for trouble. I'm not making that up, I found this out from a couple of different state and federal prosecutors that I happened to get to know over the years.
And if you do buy firearms don't carry them in traditional gun cases. They attract too much attention. For my M4's, and my FAL I carry them in a nylon guitar case when I'm going out to shoot. Urban camo. I also have a H&K MP5 submachine knockoff that I carry to the range in a racquetball bag. If you have something like a sniper rifle or deer rifle, go to the thrift store, or second hand store and get a cheap golf bag. That works great for carrying a weapon with a 20 inch to 26 inch barrel.
Never put any gun related stickers on your home or vehicle. Those things are beacons for burglars. They will target your house just to get at the guns. Make sure that you get an adequate gun safe, or have a crawl space, attic, or some obscure place that you can hide your guns when you're gone. I've got a heavy safe, and with all of my goodies in it no one is carrying it off.
And if you do buy firearms don't carry them in traditional gun cases. They attract too much attention. For my M4's, and my FAL I carry them in a nylon guitar case when I'm going out to shoot. Urban camo. I also have a H&K MP5 submachine knockoff that I carry to the range in a racquetball bag. If you have something like a sniper rifle or deer rifle, go to the thrift store, or second hand store and get a cheap golf bag. That works great for carrying a weapon with a 20 inch to 26 inch barrel.
Never put any gun related stickers on your home or vehicle. Those things are beacons for burglars. They will target your house just to get at the guns. Make sure that you get an adequate gun safe, or have a crawl space, attic, or some obscure place that you can hide your guns when you're gone. I've got a heavy safe, and with all of my goodies in it no one is carrying it off.
"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
Guys, I've got a newbie question.
Is it legal in most States to get assault rifles like the AK-47 or the M16 as a normal citizen?
What's your opinion on people getting such potentially destructive weapons for self-defense?
Is it legal in most States to get assault rifles like the AK-47 or the M16 as a normal citizen?
What's your opinion on people getting such potentially destructive weapons for self-defense?
Her pussy tastes like Pepsi Cola...
Quote: (12-20-2012 06:16 PM)vinman Wrote:
Don't just buy a gun, buy it's reputation for reliability. The Glock is the AK 47 of pistols. The Smith & Wesson M&P is a close second. I happen to own three of the latter. Stick with 9mm because of availability of ammo, price, and extremely manageable recoil. A .38 caliber revolver is a good house gun for the females that may be in your house to protect themselves. Why? Because it's so simple to use. When you select a long gun (rifle or shotgun) think about where you are. If you're in a suburb, or urban area stay away from the "black rifle" (scary looking assault weapons). If you shoot someone with a shotgun, or rifle in your home with a weapon that has a wooden stock it doesn't look as offensive to the delicate sensibilities. If it goes before a grand jury it'll just look like a gun that someone's grandfather had around the house. If you have "assault weapon" looking things around, the sheeple may think that you're you're some gun nut looking for trouble. I'm not making that up, I found this out from a couple of different state and federal prosecutors that I happened to get to know over the years.
lever action rifle to the rescue !!! some are chambered in pistol calibers so that they can be teamed up with a handgun.
Quote: (12-20-2012 06:22 PM)Way Cool Jr Wrote:
Guys, I've got a newbie question.
Is it legal in most States to get assault rifles like the AK-47 or the M16 as a normal citizen?
What's your opinion on people getting such potentially destructive weapons for self-defense?
It's legal in most states. And they make legal variants for places like California for example. If you get any weapon you need to educate yourself about safety, and the fundamentals of shooting. I don't care about people owning weapons, as long as they don't aggress on others.
"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
Quote: (12-20-2012 06:33 PM)GameTheory Wrote:
Quote: (12-20-2012 06:16 PM)vinman Wrote:
Don't just buy a gun, buy it's reputation for reliability. The Glock is the AK 47 of pistols. The Smith & Wesson M&P is a close second. I happen to own three of the latter. Stick with 9mm because of availability of ammo, price, and extremely manageable recoil. A .38 caliber revolver is a good house gun for the females that may be in your house to protect themselves. Why? Because it's so simple to use. When you select a long gun (rifle or shotgun) think about where you are. If you're in a suburb, or urban area stay away from the "black rifle" (scary looking assault weapons). If you shoot someone with a shotgun, or rifle in your home with a weapon that has a wooden stock it doesn't look as offensive to the delicate sensibilities. If it goes before a grand jury it'll just look like a gun that someone's grandfather had around the house. If you have "assault weapon" looking things around, the sheeple may think that you're you're some gun nut looking for trouble. I'm not making that up, I found this out from a couple of different state and federal prosecutors that I happened to get to know over the years.
lever action rifle to the rescue !!! some are chambered in pistol calibers so that they can be teamed up with a handgun.
Exactly. Innocuos and non scary looking. Or pump action too.
"Feminism is a trade union for ugly women"- Peregrine
nice discussion rifle/revovler combos in .357/.38Special and .44mag
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthr...p?t=253237
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthr...p?t=253237
I love Americans when it comes to dem G'rrrrrr'uuuuns! I have no need for a gun right now but I want to start researching and testing things out so that when I flee Canada I can be prepared to make a sound and knowledgeable purchase.
I agree about the pocket knife I realized how long I have lived in Canada when my cousins are way ahead of me in knife skills. The knife is part of daily life with food but it also a means of protection if needed.
I agree about the pocket knife I realized how long I have lived in Canada when my cousins are way ahead of me in knife skills. The knife is part of daily life with food but it also a means of protection if needed.
California and some East Coast states (Jersey, NY, MA, CT, MD, DC) and maybe IL have notably restrictive gun laws, banning high-capacity magazines, waiting periods, lists of outright banned guns, that sort of thing. Even so, I think CA may be the only state that you can't buy an assault rifle of some kind in -but I very well may be wrong, as I've never lived in those states and am just going by what I've heard. The guy behind the counter at your local gun shop will be able to give you a complete breakdown. A couple weeks ago at a gun show, I bought an AK from a gent who was registered there as a collector. No ID, no background check, cash paid and no questions asked . Man I love the South!
Quote: (12-20-2012 06:51 PM)Ovid Wrote:
California and some East Coast states (Jersey, NY, MA, CT, MD, DC) and maybe IL have notably restrictive gun laws, banning high-capacity magazines, waiting periods, lists of outright banned guns, that sort of thing. Even so, I think CA may be the only state that you can't buy an assault rifle of some kind in -but I very well may be wrong, as I've never lived in those states and am just going by what I've heard. The guy behind the counter at your local gun shop will be able to give you a complete breakdown. A couple weeks ago at a gun show, I bought an AK from a gent who was registered there as a collector. No ID, no background check, cash paid and no questions asked . Man I love the South!
in CAlifornia the SU-16CA is still legal. all other AK or AR type rifles must be built on a Off List Lower basis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIvy0WEjSbY
Start with something chambered to .22LR, be it rifle or pistol. Yes, it's a wimpy round, but that's the point, if you have zero experience shooting .22 offers the most cost effective way of getting your fundamentals down. Marlin 60 and Ruger 10/22 are both great choices for this.
As far as self defense goes, most crooks aren't gonna wait around to determine if they're being shot at with .22 or .308, it's a show of force more than anything that creates a defensible space.
As far as self defense goes, most crooks aren't gonna wait around to determine if they're being shot at with .22 or .308, it's a show of force more than anything that creates a defensible space.
MD is the best of the worst states for gun restrictions, and believe me, we are fighting like mad to get things better. Until this shooting happened we were making slow but steady progress into becoming a "shall issue" state for concealed carry.
MD has a "handgun roster" which gives a specific list of handguns that have been blessed by the Gubment. Most handguns from the big well known makers are on the list. You usually have to endure a 7-10 day waiting period. "Assault rifles" can also be purchased but there are some caveats. For instance, an AR-15 with a heavy barrel is typically not considered an assault rifle and therefore is "cash and carry." This term means that when you purchase one, you simply fill out the form and they do a NICS instant check through the FBI. If you pass, you can take it home. If you want an M4 look alike with the cool looking 16" barrel, collapsible stock, lug, etc, you're going to wait. I'm not sure on the specifics of the AK-47, but I can assure you that there's not going to be a cash and carry configuration in this state.
MD has a 20 round limit on mags, which means that most handgun mags are unaffected. Glock does make a 30 round mag and a few people have them, but they look kind of silly and lack any practical value. The limit for high capacity rifle mags is also 20. Not a big deal though. I can't remember the exact wording of the law, but people get around it. There's a catch with high capacity mags and their use. If I'm going into a gunfight, I want 30 round mags. For everything else, I prefer the 20 round mags. They're a little lighter, the rifle feels more balanced, and I just like them more.
From a legal perspective, the most important thing to do is know the law regarding transporting your guns.
MD has a "handgun roster" which gives a specific list of handguns that have been blessed by the Gubment. Most handguns from the big well known makers are on the list. You usually have to endure a 7-10 day waiting period. "Assault rifles" can also be purchased but there are some caveats. For instance, an AR-15 with a heavy barrel is typically not considered an assault rifle and therefore is "cash and carry." This term means that when you purchase one, you simply fill out the form and they do a NICS instant check through the FBI. If you pass, you can take it home. If you want an M4 look alike with the cool looking 16" barrel, collapsible stock, lug, etc, you're going to wait. I'm not sure on the specifics of the AK-47, but I can assure you that there's not going to be a cash and carry configuration in this state.
MD has a 20 round limit on mags, which means that most handgun mags are unaffected. Glock does make a 30 round mag and a few people have them, but they look kind of silly and lack any practical value. The limit for high capacity rifle mags is also 20. Not a big deal though. I can't remember the exact wording of the law, but people get around it. There's a catch with high capacity mags and their use. If I'm going into a gunfight, I want 30 round mags. For everything else, I prefer the 20 round mags. They're a little lighter, the rifle feels more balanced, and I just like them more.
From a legal perspective, the most important thing to do is know the law regarding transporting your guns.
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