[bacon]

Pretty shocking story but a woman left no tip and instead wrote "sorry, single mom" where the tip would be on her $138 bill. the entitlement single mothers feel society owes them was on full display here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ds-newsxml

[Aliblahba]

Did she try to say "mom" or "mum". They say mum over there I think but can't tell if she meant to close up the top of the "o".

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

[Screwston]

That website has the stupidest articles.

[Tuthmosis]

(11-01-2012 09:36 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

While I'm furious at this whole story (if it's true)--and this supremely irritating on so many levels that this forum covers on a daily basis--you have recognize the other, subtler side of the "entitlement" here:

Automatically expecting 15-20 percent of a bill--to the degree that you can take a picture of the receipt and cause a scandal--for bringing my plate 2 feet from the kitchen to my table, maybe filling up my water cup once, disappearing, and then coming back and asking if I want any "coffee or dessert." Meanwhile, the guy in the back--who did ten times more work--gets shit. That's entitlement too.

   

For the record, I'm a good tipper (20-25% almost automatically).

[Walderschmidt]

(11-01-2012 09:54 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 09:36 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

While I'm furious at this whole story (if it's true)--and this supremely irritating on so many levels that this forum covers on a daily basis--you have recognize the other, subtler side of the "entitlement" here:

Automatically expecting 15-20 percent of a bill--to the degree that you can take a picture of the receipt and cause a scandal--for bringing my plate 2 feet from the kitchen to my table, maybe filling up my water cup once, disappearing, and then coming back and asking if I want any "coffee or dessert." Meanwhile, the guy in the back--who did ten times more work--gets shit. That's entitlement too.



For the record, I'm a good tipper (20-25% almost automatically).

I agree with this sentiment - people these days expect an 'atta-boy' for doing what they're supposed to do in the first place.

A waiter already gets paid to work (though on the other hand, it's not very much).

Women expect to get their drinks, meals, and expense to be paid because they "work hard" (read: have vaginas)

[RobP]

yeah, great point that the tips don't reward the hardest workers at restaurants. I alwys make it a point to leave a nice tip on the bed at hotels-those are seriously hard workers and can use the $$ more than waiters ( not that I stiff waiters, of course).

[TheSlayer]

Agree 100% with Tuthmosis. While I tip too (usually 15-20%), I do think it's unfair to expect tip for the minimal work the waiters do. Now I know people will say that waiters usually make low minimum wages but there are plenty of other people who make minimum wage too, without a tip. In fact, I worked at McDonald's in high school for minimum wage and you don't get any tips.

[gringochileno]

(11-01-2012 09:54 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 09:36 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

While I'm furious at this whole story (if it's true)--and this supremely irritating on so many levels that this forum covers on a daily basis--you have recognize the other, subtler side of the "entitlement" here:

Automatically expecting 15-20 percent of a bill--to the degree that you can take a picture of the receipt and cause a scandal--for bringing my plate 2 feet from the kitchen to my table, maybe filling up my water cup once, disappearing, and then coming back and asking if I want any "coffee or dessert." Meanwhile, the guy in the back--who did ten times more work--gets shit. That's entitlement too.



For the record, I'm a good tipper (20-25% almost automatically).

Gotta disagree with you here Tuth. America is a generous tipping culture and employers know this, so people in tipping professions usually earn a lower hourly wage than they would otherwise based on the expectation that a good amount of their income is going to come from tips. It's not like most waiters are making bank and any tips they get are just gravy--in most cases their hourly pay is utter shit and they really depend on that portion of their income because that's how the system works in this country. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about a country without a heavy tipping culture (and the labor market reflected that), but as that isn't the case I really don't think it's appropriate to call "entitlement" on the waiter here.

All that aside, I still can't believe you're not dogpiling on the bitch who left that bill. She's obviously not hurting for cash enough to stop her from dropping $138 on a meal so the only logical conclusion is that she feels the fact that she has popped spawn out of her vagina while failing to keep a man around gives her a good reason not to tip that someone in similar circumstances who hasn't accomplished that most impressive of feats wouldn't have. That is entitlement.

[Screwston]

I don't go to restaurants if I can't afford to tip at least a few dollars. I thought that was common sense.

[Aliblahba]

Britain is a non-tipping culture anyway. What is the big deal? She was taking her entitlement money and putting it back into the system , thus stimulating the economy. The waiter should be glad he has customers to keep an expensive place like that open. Geez, talk about entitlement. 138 quid is a hella lot of money to spend on food, even in London.

[Enigma]

(11-01-2012 09:54 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 09:36 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

While I'm furious at this whole story (if it's true)--and this supremely irritating on so many levels that this forum covers on a daily basis--you have recognize the other, subtler side of the "entitlement" here:

Automatically expecting 15-20 percent of a bill--to the degree that you can take a picture of the receipt and cause a scandal--for bringing my plate 2 feet from the kitchen to my table, maybe filling up my water cup once, disappearing, and then coming back and asking if I want any "coffee or dessert." Meanwhile, the guy in the back--who did ten times more work--gets shit. That's entitlement too.



For the record, I'm a good tipper (20-25% almost automatically).

As someone familiar with working food & bev, I agree with your basic sentiment. I've worked with plenty of terrible servers and when they complain about their tips, I suggest they be better at their jobs. I have found from working in different restaurants though that the people with lower incomes will be more demanding/rude/etc. and still will not tip or will complain about the smallest things to try to justify them not tipping. It's almost paradoxical that the more money people are spending on food and/or the bigger tippers they are, the easier they are to please.

That being said, I don't agree that the cooks jobs are harder. I've worked both and they each have their advantages but if the money were the same I'd definitely choose cooking. I know many former servers and bartenders who took pay cuts to work the kitchen. It does depend on the restaurant though.

As for this story, the bitch should've taken that money to the grocery store if she didn't have money to spend at a restaurant.

[Tuthmosis]

(11-01-2012 10:12 PM)RobP Wrote:  

yeah, great point that the tips don't reward the hardest workers at restaurants.

(11-01-2012 10:14 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Now I know people will say that waiters usually make low minimum wages but there are plenty of other people who make minimum wage too, without a tip.

I see American Tipping Culture as reflective of the broader, fundamentally classist (and--in this country--also racist, almost by automatic extension) relationship to workers. This is an unspoken truth. Go to restaurants in any major US city and look at the waiters. Waiters and waitresses, who do less work and make more money, don't come from the dregs of society. They're younger, more "clean cut," and, frankly, whiter--especially as the restaurants get nicer.

Then go in the kitchens. Look at the bus-boys and cooks. Sometimes, waiters have to "split" their tips with these cats, but it depends on their generosity, and honesty, a lot of the time. Not only that, it's not always required.

I tip delivery drivers, movers, and other hard workers the best. Those guys work super-hard and get ZERO tip most of the time. No one takes a picture of their "receipt" and bitches about it online.

Why? Because they're not a bearded, vegan hipsters with a blog making a decent salary by working weekends as Chez Maurice, while trying to "make it in the biz."

[Enigma]

(11-01-2012 10:14 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Agree 100% with Tuthmosis. While I tip too (usually 15-20%), I do think it's unfair to expect tip for the minimal work the waiters do. Now I know people will say that waiters usually make low minimum wages but there are plenty of other people who make minimum wage too, without a tip. In fact, I worked at McDonald's in high school for minimum wage and you don't get any tips.

You've got to be crazy. Try working a 12-hour shift on your feet carrying a tray where you get no break and no meal, you are bombarded with tables filled with ignorant people while you try to remember to bring a drink here, enter this order this way, no onions in that, silverware to that table, and every mistake made (whether it's your fault, the kitchens, or whoever) takes money off your pay. Then your table gets up and their fucking hell child mushed mac and cheese all in the carpet and you have to clean it up.

(11-01-2012 10:15 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 09:54 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 09:36 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Besides, how can she not feel entitled when she is on an entitlement program?

While I'm furious at this whole story (if it's true)--and this supremely irritating on so many levels that this forum covers on a daily basis--you have recognize the other, subtler side of the "entitlement" here:

Automatically expecting 15-20 percent of a bill--to the degree that you can take a picture of the receipt and cause a scandal--for bringing my plate 2 feet from the kitchen to my table, maybe filling up my water cup once, disappearing, and then coming back and asking if I want any "coffee or dessert." Meanwhile, the guy in the back--who did ten times more work--gets shit. That's entitlement too.



For the record, I'm a good tipper (20-25% almost automatically).

Gotta disagree with you here Tuth. America is a generous tipping culture and employers know this, so people in tipping professions usually earn a lower hourly wage than they would otherwise based on the expectation that a good amount of their income is going to come from tips. It's not like most waiters are making bank and any tips they get are just gravy--in most cases their hourly pay is utter shit and they really depend on that portion of their income because that's how the system works in this country. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if we were talking about a country without a heavy tipping culture (and the labor market reflected that), but as that isn't the case I really don't think it's appropriate to call "entitlement" on the waiter here.

All that aside, I still can't believe you're not dogpiling on the bitch who left that bill. She's obviously not hurting for cash enough to stop her from dropping $138 on a meal so the only logical conclusion is that she feels the fact that she has popped spawn out of her vagina while failing to keep a man around gives her a good reason not to tip that someone in similar circumstances who hasn't accomplished that most impressive of feats wouldn't have. That is entitlement.

In the US, the server would general "tip out" (money given to bartenders, bussers, hosts, etc.) anywhere from $3-7 on $138 in sales. Meaning they would have paid out of their own pocket to wait on that table.

(11-01-2012 10:25 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Britain is a non-tipping culture anyway. What is the big deal? She was taking her entitlement money and putting it back into the system , thus stimulating the economy. The waiter should be glad he has customers to keep an expensive place like that open. Geez, talk about entitlement. 138 quid is a hella lot of money to spend on food, even in London.

Didn't realize this was in the UK. I believe they get paid hourly? This isn't as bad from that perspective but it's obviously bad enough for people to cause a stir about it though I'm not entirely familiar with their customs.

[Tuthmosis]

(11-01-2012 10:44 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

You've got to be crazy. Try working a 12-hour shift on your feet carrying a tray where you get no break and no meal, you are bombarded with tables filled with ignorant people while you try to remember to bring a drink here, enter this order this way, no onions in that, silverware to that table, and every mistake made (whether it's your fault, the kitchens, or whoever) takes money off your pay. Then your table gets up and their fucking hell child mushed mac and cheese all in the carpet and you have to clean it up.

The cooks work on their feet too, except in a sweltering-ass, frantic kitchen where they're prone to burning their hands and arms on hot stoves and pans, slipping, and cutting themselves. They have to deal with waiters screaming orders at them and taking shit for correcting the waiters' errors when it was them who said it (or punch it in) wrong in the first place.

Oh, and no tip.

You can make any job sound difficult like that. Waiters are good at complaining and lobbying for themselves, but that's about it.

[Anon-A-Moose]

(11-01-2012 10:09 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

A waiter already gets paid to work

A waiter doesn't get paid to work really, that's the problem. He literally is paid in tips. He exchanges his labor for those tips, not a steady paycheck. SHE is supposed to pay him. And if I was him, I'd make sure the next time she came back someone spat in her food or barred her from the restaurant, plus passing her face along to every single other one in town (who would gladly turn her down if she stiffed them on cash).

tl;dr her entitlement > his survival.

[Enigma]

(11-01-2012 10:50 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 10:44 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

You've got to be crazy. Try working a 12-hour shift on your feet carrying a tray where you get no break and no meal, you are bombarded with tables filled with ignorant people while you try to remember to bring a drink here, enter this order this way, no onions in that, silverware to that table, and every mistake made (whether it's your fault, the kitchens, or whoever) takes money off your pay. Then your table gets up and their fucking hell child mushed mac and cheese all in the carpet and you have to clean it up.

The cooks work on their feet too, except in a sweltering-ass, frantic kitchen where they're prone to burning their hands and arms on hot stoves and pans, slipping, and cutting themselves. They have to deal with waiters screaming orders at them and taking shit for correcting the waiters' errors when it was them who said it (or punch it in) wrong in the first place.

Oh, and no tip.

You can make any job sound difficult like that. Waiters are good at complaining and lobbying for themselves, but that's about it.

But they're not moving. There pay also doesn't depend on how well they do their job. They get paid the same even if they're just standing their talking football and eating during a slow shift. They seriously burn and cut themselves almost never. What are they cutting? That is usually something a prep cook does, not the people who actually cook the food. In any restaurant worth a shit, the waiters ring their orders in and communicate any adjustments to a food expeditor or "expo" who then relays that information to the kitchen. I'm not talking about Waffle House here. Cooks don't make errors though, only servers.

I've worked both. The kitchen is hot as shit and the cleaning can suck depending on the restaurant but you also get paid consistently, don't have to deal with people, don't have to stress about every little mistake you make, don't have to run around, etc. The servers sometimes get paid more, sometimes a lot more, but if the pay were the same I'd rather be a cook. I'm only speaking from personal experience here though. Just curious, how many restaurants have you worked in Tuth?

[Veloce]

Lots of Truth from Tuth, as usual.

In Los Angeles it's actually illegal to tip out the "back-of-house". Basically, a restaurant employee has to be involved in running the front of the house in even the smallest way. Polishing glassware? You can get tipped out. Washing dishes (by far more backbreaking and stressful), no tips for you. Cutting citrus for the bar? You can get tipped out. Cutting citrus for kitchen prep? No tips for you.

That said, servers typically make minimum wage. And, as stressful as line cooking is, or being a sous chef or chef can be, as much as it resembles being in a fucking trench with shit being thrown at you and avoiding cuts and burns, with the yelling and bullshit ticket machine, I'll take this gig ANY DAY over dealing with the dining public. Fuck that noise. Dealing with the public is truly awful, and tipping out servers is the only way to make sure that job gets filled.

As for this article...being stiffed isn't uncommon, but the dumb bitch shouldn't look for sympathy because she's a deadbeat. I don't know how many mouths she's feeding but $138 ain't exactly dining on a budget. Looks like she doesn't want to give up her fillet of skate sauteed in brown butter and capers, but OH SHIT she's a single mom so fuck your tip and hurry along to your next Pizza Hut commercial audition.

[HiFlo]

You know, I haven't had a whole lot of servers who were that good.

In her defense, maybe she used the 'single mom' excuse in a way that girls give a fake number instead of saying 'no you cant have my number' as a way to be 'polite.' Probably unlikely but what the hell lol

[Tuthmosis]

(11-01-2012 11:06 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

Just curious, how many restaurants have you worked in Tuth?

I knew this was coming.

It's part of the waiters' talking points. I'm telling you, these guys are practically organized to keep their little racket going. Like you need to work in a restaurant to understand how it works. We should go around asking everyone how many countries they've run whenever they talk politics, or how many times they've quarterbacked the New York Giants whenever they make assertions about sports.

(11-01-2012 11:12 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

As for this article...being stiffed isn't uncommon, but the dumb bitch shouldn't look for sympathy because she's a deadbeat. I don't know how many mouths she's feeding but $138 ain't exactly dining on a budget.

Don't get me wrong the dumb broad in the original article isn't off the hook. The bad part isn't that she left no tip, either, it's that--typical of certain type of broad--uses her motherhood as an excuse for everything. It's this sort of logic that makes people congratulate chicks for getting pregnant--which is no accomplishment, and has been done by tens of billions before her.

   

In other words, your failure--to have your children within a stable, two-parent household, or to manage your finances--isn't the waiter's responsibility. Just because people stupidly and charitably give you passes when you use your motherhood excuse in other settings, that doesn't mean you can use it to save money at an honest worker's expense (however unfair I think the automatic-tipping system to be).

[TheSlayer]

(11-01-2012 10:14 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Agree 100% with Tuthmosis. While I tip too (usually 15-20%), I do think it's unfair to expect tip for the minimal work the waiters do. Now I know people will say that waiters usually make low minimum wages but there are plenty of other people who make minimum wage too, without a tip. In fact, I worked at McDonald's in high school for minimum wage and you don't get any tips.

Quote:

You've got to be crazy. Try working a 12-hour shift on your feet carrying a tray where you get no break and no meal, you are bombarded with tables filled with ignorant people while you try to remember to bring a drink here, enter this order this way, no onions in that, silverware to that table, and every mistake made (whether it's your fault, the kitchens, or whoever) takes money off your pay. Then your table gets up and their fucking hell child mushed mac and cheese all in the carpet and you have to clean it up.

I am not being crazy here. Ask anyone you know if they have worked in a busy McDonald's or any fast-food chain for that matter. The kitchen is always hot as hell and when it's busy you literally have no time to breathe. When it was busy you used to run around everywhere cleaning tables, the floors, standing by the grills constantly, cleaning washrooms, dealing with rude customers because they wanted something with no onions or extra ketchup or this and that and they come back all angry. Agreed, we didn't lose any pay for breaking any thing or anything like that but I am sure in terms of being a waiter in a restaurant where you can make tips or a fast-food chain where you are working your ass-off, they are both doing the same work in terms of difficulty. And in the end, we were all getting minimum wage for no tips. I am sure workers in restaurants with tips make way more than workers in restaurants that are getting a little higher fixed minimum wage with no tips.

Even then, I am not against tipping or anything but there should be no onus on the customer to tip.

[RobP]

Nobody is saying you shouldn't tip. The single mom here is a bitch. Tuth is correct though to call attention to the class aspect of who gets tips in restaurants and who doesn't. Seriously, he is so correct on this I am surprised anyone is arguing with it. Restaurant-pay is whacky that way. And it doesn't look right.

[Enigma]

(11-01-2012 11:50 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 11:06 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

Just curious, how many restaurants have you worked in Tuth?

I knew this was coming.

It's part of the waiters' talking points. I'm telling you, these guys are practically organized to keep their little racket going. Like you need to work in a restaurant to understand how it works. We should go around asking everyone how many countries they've run whenever they talk politics, or how many times they've quarterbacked the New York Giants whenever they make assertions about sports.

First hand experience working two different jobs obviously lends to an assessment of which is worse, which is what this discussion is about. A chef just chimed in and agreed that he would rather cook than serve tables.

Why are you getting so defensive? I'm not even arguing about tips and nothing you can say will effect my "little racket" anyways. I work in one of the biggest culinary cities in the country. I didn't get a tip under 25%+ last night. I'm fine.

[RobP]

Slayer,
You make a good point about fast food-chains. No disagreement. I'm talking about when the waiter gets 20% tip on a tab and the people in the back of the house get little of that.

[megatron]

(11-01-2012 11:12 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Lots of Truth from Tuth, as usual.

In Los Angeles it's actually illegal to tip out the "back-of-house". Basically, a restaurant employee has to be involved in running the front of the house in even the smallest way. Polishing glassware? You can get tipped out. Washing dishes (by far more backbreaking and stressful), no tips for you. Cutting citrus for the bar? You can get tipped out. Cutting citrus for kitchen prep? No tips for you.

That said, servers typically make minimum wage. And, as stressful as line cooking is, or being a sous chef or chef can be, as much as it resembles being in a fucking trench with shit being thrown at you and avoiding cuts and burns, with the yelling and bullshit ticket machine, I'll take this gig ANY DAY over dealing with the dining public. Fuck that noise. Dealing with the public is truly awful, and tipping out servers is the only way to make sure that job gets filled.

As for this article...being stiffed isn't uncommon, but the dumb bitch shouldn't look for sympathy because she's a deadbeat. I don't know how many mouths she's feeding but $138 ain't exactly dining on a budget. Looks like she doesn't want to give up her fillet of skate sauteed in brown butter and capers, but OH SHIT she's a single mom so fuck your tip and hurry along to your next Pizza Hut commercial audition.

Interesting point, but you have to remember that as women, they're biologically and societally better made to be social animals than us.

[Enigma]

(11-02-2012 12:02 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 10:14 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Agree 100% with Tuthmosis. While I tip too (usually 15-20%), I do think it's unfair to expect tip for the minimal work the waiters do. Now I know people will say that waiters usually make low minimum wages but there are plenty of other people who make minimum wage too, without a tip. In fact, I worked at McDonald's in high school for minimum wage and you don't get any tips.

Quote:

You've got to be crazy. Try working a 12-hour shift on your feet carrying a tray where you get no break and no meal, you are bombarded with tables filled with ignorant people while you try to remember to bring a drink here, enter this order this way, no onions in that, silverware to that table, and every mistake made (whether it's your fault, the kitchens, or whoever) takes money off your pay. Then your table gets up and their fucking hell child mushed mac and cheese all in the carpet and you have to clean it up.

I am not being crazy here. Ask anyone you know if they have worked in a busy McDonald's or any fast-food chain for that matter. The kitchen is always hot as hell and when it's busy you literally have no time to breathe. When it was busy you used to run around everywhere cleaning tables, the floors, standing by the grills constantly, cleaning washrooms, dealing with rude customers because they wanted something with no onions or extra ketchup or this and that and they come back all angry. Agreed, we didn't lose any pay for breaking any thing or anything like that but I am sure in terms of being a waiter in a restaurant where you can make tips or a fast-food chain where you are working your ass-off, they are both doing the same work in terms of difficulty. And in the end, we were all getting minimum wage for no tips. I am sure workers in restaurants with tips make way more than workers in restaurants that are getting a little higher fixed minimum wage with no tips.

Even then, I am not against tipping or anything but there should be no onus on the customer to tip.

Misunderstanding here. I was commenting on the fact that you said waiters do "minimal work". I agree that working at McDonalds for minimum wage sucks ass. But if I talked to customers like the people working at the local McD's I would be fired on the spot. The reason you don't work there anymore is because you were actually a hard worker unlike the other slack ass employees.

Like I said, I'm not arguing about tipping. Once you work your way into a higher class of restaurant, people always tip when you do your job.