[rudebwoy]

(10-19-2012 02:19 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 01:23 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

One on the few things I like about the USA is the entrepreneurial spirit that people have vs alot of Europeans who expect to be spoon fed by the government.

This is something I really like about the USA. This and Rap music.

Again these are generalizations based on a people I know in the UK, I am sure Germany is a different case altogether. Northern Europeans obviously have a different work ethic than say Southern Europeans.
In Europe there does not seem to be a stigma about being unemployed, in Canada you are viewed like a leper.
In Canada, it is not unheard of to meet people who have more than one job. The girl in the grocery store today was moaning about her three jobs.

[BoiBoi]

You are absolutely right, in Germany we do have strong work ethic and our industry is innovative and what not, but still, this very American entrepreneurial spirit is something I admire. This is why they are No. 1 in worldwide patents.
Obviously, when there is light, there also is shadow and the whole fuss about socialized medicine illustrates that well. Of course, I want a society to look after their weakest members and if that means that you'll have to feed some freeloaders, so be it. I think the American society is more egoistic in that regard. The whole "From rags to riches" thing is great, as is the idea that everybody is capable of forging their own future and become successfull, but what about people who never had a chance to become someone? Crack babies, abused teens and all the other "born loosers" come to mind. I want to live in a society which at least attempts to take care of em, although they will never bring anything monetary to the table.

[jimukr104]

i do not take lists about quality of life at face value. Us Americans with our competitor nature can never be satisfied so how can we ever rate ourselves as happy and having great quality of life? For example in surveys of happiest states I remember Louisiana as being number 1. i am glad they are happy and satisfied. Its also one of the poorest states and alot of people had just recently lost their homes. Rochester,NY was listed in top 10 US cites for quality of life, however Economy has sucked there in over 50 years and everyone moves away after college but they are happy?
In world surveys US cities lose because I read they list access to medical care and truth is America has a system that isn't understood by anyone else and us included .If you do not have insurance you have no free access to it and it will wipe out your wealth. However, truth is we subsidize others all the time. I am not talking about foreign aid either. We also have alot of social programs that some say are more generous than anywhere else however you have to qualify and it isn't easy to qualify for.
There is one thing i do not understand about Europeans though, I am curious and i have n o hate here. i actually wish Americans would protest more often n and be rebellious the way citizens will often protest in European countries about work conditions etc. The American media basically brainwashes us to slowly get use t o the idea of not having something, it is done by blatant marketing. For example , instead of fixing social security(easy t o do)they rather get us to accept
a worst case scenario . We should be taking to the streets in rebellion now like Europeans would do. However the thing that baffles me about the masses i n some Euro countries is that the students will riot about increases in tuition, something that over ones lifetime isn't so great ,nor does it affect all. However, the masses seem to never riot or protest the increasing of vats that have slowly risen over the decades as well as other taxes. Seriously i actually saw how vat was originally like 8% and over a 30 year period went to 24% in some northern Euro country. WTF? American s protest when states raise sales tax on luxury purchases .50%. politicians here are against VATS because they realize that it can get inflated like that. I would rather pay extra tuition(WHICH ISN'T ALOT) than be taxed on everything I purchase for the rest of my life at ever increasing amounts. This curiosity of mine has been formed by watching political discussions on VATS and taxes and is in no way an insult or do I mean to offend anyone. However GROW a pair of balls already and say NO MORE.

[Belgrano]

(10-19-2012 01:05 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 12:56 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Good point.

The people I met in Laos or Indonesia who had a fraction of what we have seemed more content and happy then most the people I know here in England.

The British and the French love to moan and complain. It seems to be part of their rights. Moan and fuss, moan and fuss..I frequent a British board where they just moan all the time and my French lizard is always criticising and fussing.

I think a life without complaints would bother them.

You know nothing about moaning and complaining if you haven´t been to Vienna. Here it´s something like an immensely refined and eagerly cultivated form of art. That´s actually something we are famous for in the German speaking countries. It´s especially amusing if you look at the Mercer survey, where Vienna is constantly among the top 3.
Which isn´t surprising if you look at the deficit of the municipal administration and the fact that Vienna is ruled by the social democrats since 1919. All that redistribution of wealth and income has to yield some results.

[BoiBoi]

(10-19-2012 02:50 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 01:05 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 12:56 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Good point.

The people I met in Laos or Indonesia who had a fraction of what we have seemed more content and happy then most the people I know here in England.

The British and the French love to moan and complain. It seems to be part of their rights. Moan and fuss, moan and fuss..I frequent a British board where they just moan all the time and my French lizard is always criticising and fussing.

I think a life without complaints would bother them.

You know nothing about moaning and complaining if you haven´t been to Vienna. Here it´s something like an immensely refined and eagerly cultivated form of art. That´s actually something we are famous for in the German speaking countries. It´s especially amusing if you look at the Mercer survey, where Vienna is constantly among the top 3.
Which isn´t surprising if you look at the deficit of the municipal administration and the fact that Vienna is ruled by the social democrats since 1919. All that redistribution of wealth and income has to yield some results.

Yeah, its kinda strange that apparently, every European country is famous for complaining. I thought we Germans had that shit on lock...

[iknowexactly]

(10-19-2012 01:58 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  

One thing I like about the USA from a male perspective is the diversity, it is literally like 31 flavors. Being born and raised in urban California, I am used to every ethnictiy/race of woman around me, it would almost be wierd to be around soloely 1 ethnicty/race continually, but I guess thats preference

I've learned a lot from the different cultures in American-- long-term planning from the Chinese, exuberance for life from African Americans, careful planning from Germanics, appreciation from family from Latins--

But to be honest I'm most comfortable in places where there's mostly Caucasians; cause those are the chicks that get me the hottest and that's what I'm focused on.

But there's no way America hasn't benefitted from all our types learning each other's strengths. And also watching out for the fuck-ups each sub-culture falls victim to.

[iknowexactly]

(10-19-2012 10:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

What is quality of living? Can the people in Europe hop on the boat go to an island with palm trees and bikinis and go swimming in 5 minutes? On Christmas? No really so basically you are personally responsible for your quality of life. How could Toronto be on there and St. Augustine FL not be?

I stayed in Norway for a while and even though on paper it looks good the quality of life wasn't even close to anyplace I lived here.

I think we have to take into account personality match-- you seem like a boisterous, aggressive ( in a good way of going after what you want, not necessarily as a bully) entrepreneurial guy who loves hot weather.

Florida seems almost ideal for you from what I know of you.

If you're more of tame, introverted bookish guy; it's harder to fit in most of America-- you're seen as weak, and relative to that environment it's true. A lion is weak in the Arctic. A polar bear is weak in a jungle where it would become disabled from heat quickly.

You get a LOT more respect for your book-smarts in EE. another interesting thing is a lot of Americans are born to first or second generation parents. So your genetics, like the lion or polar bear above, may not be set up the greatest for where you happen to be, unlike a German who is born where his family line has had hundreds of generations to adapt. I liked Minneapolis better than San Francisco.

[EPMD]

I don't have extensive experience of America, having only been to New York, but I will always spend most of my year In Europe. It's the birth place of civilisation, best girls on the planet(IMO), it's orgasmic to travel from country to country in so little time.

As a very "proper" speaking Brit, I would like to spend some time in America to see what reaction I would get from the ladies, but there's now way I could achieve rock star status like some places in Europe.

Also as a Brit I do not consider myself European, but I feel more European than English. I don't want to be buried in England where it's pissing down with rain and some chav is drinking beer on my grave

[Joga Bonito]

I want to add a bit of perspective to the argument at hand. It seems that people still think of America of this great land of opportunity where anyone can control their destiny. As the decades have progressed though this has become less prevalent. For more details look here and here. Britain actually ranks lower than the US which is to say pretty damn low. Income inequality in the US is also at Great Depression levels these days, with people more reliant on credit than ever.

Now those "socialist"(although the US provides Medicare, welfare,social security, corporate socialism) countries we Americans love to hate absolutely blow the US and UK away in social mobility as shown in the second link. How this correlates with happiness is purely subjective and obviously up for debate.

However, I also support the premise that people in poorer countries are happier and thus more pleasant than people in richer countries. Being a 2nd generation American with Kenyan roots,I was absolutely shocked at the level of courtesy and altruism that I experienced in Kenya, where many that I saw lived at a significantly lower level than that of the average American minimum wage earner. People there practically feel obliged to feed and facilitate a guest's stay and offer refreshments even, if they barely have enough. You can visit any village and at least be offered tea and bread. People are pleasant, sincere and genuinely interested in learning more about you and your perspectives. With that being said I wouldn't want to live anywhere in the world, just off the strength of social progression that has been achieved here. However, it is important that people are aware of the dogmas that they propagate when engaging in debates like these.

[3agle 3yes]

First of all, the comparisons are going to be difficult. As already mentioned the USA is a country...Europe is NOT. Besides it would be difficult judging the USA as a whole as American states are different let alone European countries and their different cities.

Most people would prefer the place they have spent most of their life, this is natural because their friends and family etc live there.

English is my first language and quite frankly I speak badly at others. So this is a major factor. Also culture differences will be difficult to adjust to (though this is hardly a problem for me).

Also don't forget the Eurozone crisis. There have been protests in Spain and other nations with austerity and all.

Personally speaking I would prefer to spend most of my time in the U.K. (London specifically) and the States (major cities). But I would like to be staying at many places around the world (albeit only occasionally), it's not like the old days where travelling to places used to take days.

I personally believe some guys here take women far too seriously...women should not dictate where someone wants to live in fact women should not be our primary concern AT ALL.

Also @ rudebwoy

I know many in the U.K. that work several jobs (though most are foreigners) and people in the U.K. are amongst those who work the longest hours in Europe it's one of the reasons why the economy is not so bad, compared to others.

That's also why so many in Europe are moving there...I heard in the news around 70,000 Spaniards have moved recently and I'd estimate two thirds will go to London. London is one of those places where a Spanish person can work in a Spanish restaurant with Spanish staff and interact with Spanish people most of time (if those chose to).

[el mechanico]

(10-19-2012 05:19 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 10:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

What is quality of living? Can the people in Europe hop on the boat go to an island with palm trees and bikinis and go swimming in 5 minutes? On Christmas? No really so basically you are personally responsible for your quality of life. How could Toronto be on there and St. Augustine FL not be?

I stayed in Norway for a while and even though on paper it looks good the quality of life wasn't even close to anyplace I lived here.

I think we have to take into account personality match-- you seem like a boisterous, aggressive ( in a good way of going after what you want, not necessarily as a bully) entrepreneurial guy who loves hot weather.

Florida seems almost ideal for you from what I know of you.

If you're more of tame, introverted bookish guy; it's harder to fit in most of America-- you're seen as weak, and relative to that environment it's true. A lion is weak in the Arctic. A polar bear is weak in a jungle where it would become disabled from heat quickly.

You get a LOT more respect for your book-smarts in EE. another interesting thing is a lot of Americans are born to first or second generation parents. So your genetics, like the lion or polar bear above, may not be set up the greatest for where you happen to be, unlike a German who is born where his family line has had hundreds of generations to adapt. I liked Minneapolis better than San Francisco.

I understand what you're saying and follow your progress here. Like i said before you may need a jing for your yang next time you go back there. I fuck with Europeans because I don't like their attitudes and rudeness.

I will tell you guys for a fact that when tourists from Europe come here we go out of our way to keep them from harm and explain anything in detail to them that they need to know as far as driving them to their destination when they have problems with tricky directions no matter how far out of the way it is. I've never been extended any courtesy in Europe. Also Europeans don't get bullshit tourist taxed here by cabs or whatever. I go to Europe fully knowing It's going to be a fight the whole way but will be god damned if any of those clowns get in my shit. They're going to pay my tax in pussy like it or not.

[jimukr104]

I also support the premise that people in poorer countries are happier and thus more pleasant than people in richer countries.
True in some cases, Philippines was once rated happiest people and they are poor. However, FSU is mostly poor and majority of people are unpleasant and un- happy. i guess its a cultural thingy there.
As for Americans socialist programs , Social security is basically combination pension plan -insurance plan. i do not consider it socialist. SSI and welfare is. As a former a government employee and now a retiree , i lived a socialist life. Got paid same as others, free medical,etc. Had 6 weeks vacation. If you want to live Euro lifestyle work for state, city and federal gov't ,lol.

[azulsombra]

(10-19-2012 05:31 PM)EPMD Wrote:  

I don't have extensive experience of America, having only been to New York, but I will always spend most of my year In Europe. It's the birth place of civilisation, best girls on the planet(IMO), it's orgasmic to travel from country to country in so little time.

Also as a Brit I do not consider myself European, but I feel more European than English. I don't want to be buried in England where it's pissing down with rain and some chav is drinking beer on my grave

That's a very Euro-centric view. Civilization predates Europe. Ancient China, Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt come to mind.

[azulsombra]

(10-19-2012 11:04 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I think what Hen mentions as a minority is a very important statement.

As a minority, I don't think Europe beats out the States. It is my personal opinion that the UK is the best country in Europe for a minority and that isn't saying that everyone should pack their bags and run to (or run from) the UK. I am open to opinions on this.

And don't quote getting 9's as a happiness. A man needs to eat and be mobile. What's the good of fcuking a 9 if you earn janitor wages and have the mobility of a refugee?

I never had any interest to live in any other country in Europe and I didn't see the incentive either. All the cats I know were leaving the so called nirvanas in droves to come to England.

I can understand your points, but it appears that the average minority male will do better in most of Western Europe (UK included) when compared to the U.S. Sure the cream of the crop can excel and achieve greater success, athletes, entertainers, politicians will do better in the U.S. But what percentage of people are in the cream of the crop?

The US has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world, which continues to grow and a huge percentage of those incarcerated are minorities, typically black and brown people. The average minority male probably has a higher chance of being incarcerated at some point than they do achieving the American Dream. Obviously it's still possible for everyone to achieve greatness here, if they have a good hustle and the right connects. At the same time it's an extremely violent country compared to Western Europe and most of the violence is disproportionately concentrated in minority communities.

[Moma]

(10-19-2012 08:12 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 11:04 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I think what Hen mentions as a minority is a very important statement.

As a minority, I don't think Europe beats out the States. It is my personal opinion that the UK is the best country in Europe for a minority and that isn't saying that everyone should pack their bags and run to (or run from) the UK. I am open to opinions on this.

And don't quote getting 9's as a happiness. A man needs to eat and be mobile. What's the good of fcuking a 9 if you earn janitor wages and have the mobility of a refugee?

I never had any interest to live in any other country in Europe and I didn't see the incentive either. All the cats I know were leaving the so called nirvanas in droves to come to England.

I can understand your points, but it appears that the average minority male will do better in most of Western Europe (UK included) when compared to the U.S. Sure the cream of the crop can excel and achieve greater success, athletes, entertainers, politicians will do better in the U.S. But what percentage of people are in the cream of the crop?

The US has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world, which continues to grow and a huge percentage of those incarcerated are minorities, typically black and brown people. The average minority male probably has a higher chance of being incarcerated at some point than they do achieving the American Dream. Obviously it's still possible for everyone to achieve greatness here, if they have a good hustle and the right connects. At the same time it's an extremely violent country compared to Western Europe and most of the violence is disproportionately concentrated in minority communities.

Tell me what do better entails in Western Europe.

Break down the successes in Western Europe on average for the minority male.

[bacon]

I dont really consider the UK part of europe, in many ways its more like the US than France or Italy so I didnt include it in my breakdown
I am an American who lived in europe for 6 mths and traveled to several countries there

Cons of US

-very litigious society
-americans more religious
- obesity too high
- more of a police state, more laws( bullshit like 21 drinking age)
- more defined social classes (the rich in america live more in world isolated from poor/lower class than europeans)
-more dangerous( you can get shot for wearing the wrong colors while walking thru certain neighborhoods)

Pros of US
-more of a individual, independent mindset
-less cultural roots make americans more tolerant to different racial, relgious backgrounds
-hard work is praised while being lazy is viewed negatively(although this can be taken to extremes)
-can pick places where the weather, religious and political ideologies fit your preferance, all while not having to learn a new language.
-anyone with enough motivation can move places like alaska and find good paying work without having much in way of education or skills(so basically you can still make bank here without being well educated)
-american football

Cons of Europe
-taxes especially VAT are way too high
-demographics and low child birth have created a disparity where the average age in many european countries is 40 and up.
- people are lazier, expect government to take care of them
- less diversity in cuisine( you can eat italian, greek, thai, mexican, japanese in small cities in the states and all will be run by natives)
-less open to and tolerant of different cultures, races.

Pros of Europe
-better quality food
-people have a more established cultural, ethnic identity so people have a deeper relationship to where they live than amerians.(I for instance have family all over the US from Cali to NY)
-better public transportation
-less problems with vice, more accepting of drugs, prostitution, underage drinking
-skinnier, healthier population
- much harder to get arrested

[Scarecr0w]

(10-19-2012 08:47 PM)bacon Wrote:  

I dont really consider the UK part of europe, in many ways its more like the US than France or Italy so I didnt include it in my breakdown
I am an American who lived in europe for 6 mths and traveled to several countries there

Cons of US

-very litigious society
-americans more religious
- obesity too high
- more of a police state, more laws( bullshit like 21 drinking age)
- more defined social classes (the rich in america live more in world isolated from poor/lower class than europeans)
-more dangerous( you can get shot for wearing the wrong colors while walking thru certain neighborhoods)

Pros of US
-more of a individual, independent mindset
-less cultural roots make americans more tolerant to different racial, relgious backgrounds
-hard work is praised while being lazy is viewed negatively(although this can be taken to extremes)
-can pick places where the weather, religious and political ideologies fit your preferance, all while not having to learn a new language.
-anyone with enough motivation can move places like alaska and find good paying work without having much in way of education or skills(so basically you can still make bank here without being well educated)
-american football

Cons of Europe
-taxes especially VAT are way too high
-demographics and low child birth have created a disparity where the average age in many european countries is 40 and up.
- people are lazier, expect government to take care of them
- less diversity in cuisine( you can eat italian, greek, thai, mexican, japanese in small cities in the states and all will be run by natives)
-less open to and tolerant of different cultures, races.

Pros of Europe
-better quality food
-people have a more established cultural, ethnic identity so people have a deeper relationship to where they live than amerians.(I for instance have family all over the US from Cali to NY)
-better public transportation
-less problems with vice, more accepting of drugs, prostitution, underage drinking
-skinnier, healthier population
- much harder to get arrested

I dont think germans are lazy people... most of northern europeans are not lazy. Southern european are lazy...

[The Fantasist]

Are they lazy or do they just think to themselves,we have great weather,a warm sea, good wine,good company,what more do we need?

I don't work hard at all,I try to do the bare minimum and that's because I only want enough to be able to wear nice clothes,travel,hang out with friends and bang women. I don't need much to do that. Sure that means people call me lazy but whilst their at the office or working three jobs I'm heading to a bar to have a laugh with some random women or on a flight to Moscow for an adventure.

It's about priorities.

[Scarecr0w]

(10-20-2012 07:47 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Are they lazy or do they just think to themselves,we have great weather,a warm sea, good wine,good company,what more do we need?

I don't work hard at all,I try to do the bare minimum and that's because I only want enough to be able to wear nice clothes,travel,hang out with friends and bang women. I don't need much to do that. Sure that means people call me lazy but whilst their at the office or working three jobs I'm heading to a bar to have a laugh with some random women or on a flight to Moscow for an adventure.

It's about priorities.

Sure, i'm just pointing out that southern europeans are lazy, thats it. I think every extreme is bad, let it be workaholics in usa or lazy spoon fed greeks....

[NoShameAllGame]

(10-19-2012 02:45 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

There is one thing i do not understand about Europeans though, I am curious and i have n o hate here. i actually wish Americans would protest more often n and be rebellious the way citizens will often protest in European countries about work conditions etc. The American media basically brainwashes us to slowly get use t o the idea of not having something, it is done by blatant marketing. For example , instead of fixing social security(easy t o do)they rather get us to accept
a worst case scenario . We should be taking to the streets in rebellion now like Europeans would do. However the thing that baffles me about the masses i n some Euro countries is that the students will riot about increases in tuition, something that over ones lifetime isn't so great ,nor does it affect all. However, the masses seem to never riot or protest the increasing of vats that have slowly risen over the decades as well as other taxes. Seriously i actually saw how vat was originally like 8% and over a 30 year period went to 24% in some northern Euro country. WTF? American s protest when states raise sales tax on luxury purchases .50%. politicians here are against VATS because they realize that it can get inflated like that. I would rather pay extra tuition(WHICH ISN'T ALOT) than be taxed on everything I purchase for the rest of my life at ever increasing amounts. This curiosity of mine has been formed by watching political discussions on VATS and taxes and is in no way an insult or do I mean to offend anyone. However GROW a pair of balls already and say NO MORE.

However, that begs the question of whether the "physical" version of the political protest is a relevant and effective means to political change in the midst of new technologies a medieval king would give a fortune for (I'm sure people would've wanted a twitter feed to read that Napoleon surrendered in the 1800s).

Whether you like the Tea Party or not, the confluence of social media and the internet abetted its rise without the necessity of violent street protests and split and transformed the Republican party and got a number of sizable representatives elected, including Rick Scott, Florida's governor. Maybe Americans are taking to the internet over street protests, an old-world way, and it's the future (look at the Arab Spring).

In the "hard" sciences, academia world, my German classmate showed me an official website that showed the highest salary for a science professor, senior to assistant, at 60k-70k euro a year. This is completely uniform for the entire country - there's no differentiation in salary throughout German universities, as a German physics professor explained to me that it's an ideal to eliminate elitism and ensure uniformity in education. An American university professor these days could expect to start at 6 figures - an associate professor at Caltech starts at $150k and reaches $250k a year, and that was 8 years ago. Edward Witten, claimed to be our greatest living physicist (no, it's not Stephen Hawking, who lost the bet with Thorne), was offered $1mil a year at Caltech and the corner office, but he turned it down (the Institute of Advanced Studies matched it and allowed him not to have to teach).

I don't see Germany being able to compete on salary to attract the world's top talent.

When I was at 2 science conferences this past summer, I saw how much new and innovative stuff was coming out of America, and while there was a lot of hard work put into perfecting technical details from the German colleagues, the creativity and innovation was obviously lacking. And like Wayne Gretsky's dad said, You skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it was.

Of course the women are hotter in Europe, from West to East, but sometimes, each individual has to choose their priorities and what they value higher in life.

[rudebwoy]

I was visiting the Greek Islands (Rhodes/Kos) about 15 yrs ago, I met a very nice man who rented me a scooter. This trip was an eye opener because it was the first time I got exposed to siesta and a completely different way of life. So one day over coffee the nice man explained how he could not live in "western" countries as we work too hard. He had his rental scooter business and in the off season he would relax or travel, he was planning a trip to India for business ideas.

To me he had the perfect life, he was calm, relaxed and very content.

[azulsombra]

(10-19-2012 08:44 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 08:12 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  

(10-19-2012 11:04 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I think what Hen mentions as a minority is a very important statement.

As a minority, I don't think Europe beats out the States. It is my personal opinion that the UK is the best country in Europe for a minority and that isn't saying that everyone should pack their bags and run to (or run from) the UK. I am open to opinions on this.

And don't quote getting 9's as a happiness. A man needs to eat and be mobile. What's the good of fcuking a 9 if you earn janitor wages and have the mobility of a refugee?

I never had any interest to live in any other country in Europe and I didn't see the incentive either. All the cats I know were leaving the so called nirvanas in droves to come to England.

I can understand your points, but it appears that the average minority male will do better in most of Western Europe (UK included) when compared to the U.S. Sure the cream of the crop can excel and achieve greater success, athletes, entertainers, politicians will do better in the U.S. But what percentage of people are in the cream of the crop?

The US has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world, which continues to grow and a huge percentage of those incarcerated are minorities, typically black and brown people. The average minority male probably has a higher chance of being incarcerated at some point than they do achieving the American Dream. Obviously it's still possible for everyone to achieve greatness here, if they have a good hustle and the right connects. At the same time it's an extremely violent country compared to Western Europe and most of the violence is disproportionately concentrated in minority communities.

Tell me what do better entails in Western Europe.

Break down the successes in Western Europe on average for the minority male.

Sure.

Off the top of my head:

-Post Secondary Education-- this is a big one. In several European countries access to university education is free or practically free in comparison to the huge debt the average American graduate is shackled with before they can even begin a career and attempt to stack paper.

-Universal Health care-- There are millions of Americans that don't have access to adecuate health care, an astounding percentage of those without health insurance are minorities.This is a non-issue for the average euro minority male.

-Less issues with overzealous law enforcement. In Europe there is no huge privatized prison industrial complex. Therefore there is less incentive to fill prisons with minorities. Not saying Europe is perfect in this regard but how many western European countries would imprison people for carrying small amounts of marijuana for personal use? Drinking alcohol at the beach?

In the U.S minorities risk being beaten and dragged to prison on trumped up charges because the officer felt disrespected in some way. We have new videos shown on the news almost every other week of police abusing their authority and brutalizing people. This is so common we arent even shocked anymore unless it happens to a 40yr old white women. I doubt this is the case in Western Europe.

-Less Organized crime and random violence. I touched on the violence aspect already, but how many parts of Western Europe do minorities have to be concious of what color clothes they are wearing or risk being shot? This type of ignorance is common in parts of America. I hope it hasn't spread over there.

-Less outwardly materialistic culture. Please correct me if I'm wrong here but outside of the major Euro cities there seems like less of a need to acquire things, i. e. waste money when you could be stacking paper,etc. Therefore there is less of an incentive to buy things you can't afford and get in debt. Obviously one can personally choose to deviate from the masses but this particular ignorance is a large part of U.S. minority culture. Kanye touched on this in the song- All Falls Down

-No TSA. Although I heard the U.K. equivalent can be bad as well it doesnt approach the US version.

-More agreeable, less hypergamous and attractive slim females. (U.K. may be excluded here)

-Vacation/Holiday/Sabbatical, in the U.S. taking more than two consecutive weeks off works is an anomaly, in Europe its the norm



My point being a dude that has the talent, hustle and connections to be the next T.I., Kobe or Obama will have a better life in the U.S.
The dude that's working at the Apple store in Cleveland would have a better life working at the Apple store in Cologne.

[jimukr104]

Less issues with overzealous law enforcement. In Europe there is no huge privatized prison industrial complex. Therefore there is less incentive to fill prisons with minorities. Not saying Europe is perfect in this regard but how many western European countries would imprison people for carrying small "amounts of marijuana for personal use? Drinking alcohol at the beach?

In the U.S minorities risk being beaten and dragged to prison on trumped up charges because the officer felt disrespected in some way. We have new videos shown on the news almost every other week of police abusing their authority and brutalizing people. This is so common we arent even shocked anymore unless it happens to a 40yr old white women. I doubt this is the case in Western Europe."


LOL ,thats ignorance at its best. i am retired NYPD. i assure you i and my co workers never arrested somebody who didn't deserve it or in fact actually broke the law,DUH. Truth is average citizen expects the laws to be followed and obeyed. If people do not like the laws , well they can make a big stink to change it , but MINORITIES, do cause the most violent crimes in the large cities. Thats a statistical fact. I think most cops would love to work in easy going suburbs BUT ,they are placed where needed. Just as a note, most violent crimes is minority on minority. Seriously, I ,like most cops tried to do the least possible,we do not get paid more for arresting people and most of us hate paper work. Its just that there are so many idiots doing obvious stupid things that are dangerous and against the law. pot isn't illegal in small quantity in NYC by the way ,it is a violation to use in public , which it should be. Heck i think smokers should smoke at home and not pollute everyone else but thats my own pet peeve. I heard of police in Germany and Spain actually being more able to use more force than most American cops so the comparison isn't relevant to all of Euro countries. I am not a Dentist , I do not give my input how they should do their job,i find it funny how untrained people always have to think they have to tell cops how to do thier job ,something they know nothing about.
if any minorities on this forum have been STOPPED by cops ,well I apologize. But blame the minority victims, they are the one who give police the descriptions of who the potential suspects are. i thought that would be common sense. When the suspect is blond and blue eyes guess what? The cops stop someone fitting that description. Its really something average people with common street smarts would comprehend, unfortunately, we have found normal folks lack this common sense . Its sad really because it sets an us vs them mentality which is a deservice to all.

[Moma]

jim, American police seem a bit more aggressive than Canadian police. In Toronto, police never make eye contact with me but in America, they glare, make me scared and one lawyer I know said that the holsters in America are scuffed up cos the cops draw the iron at least seven times per day.

The holsters in Toronto are shiny new..and in Toronto, the police get a week off when shooting someone to recover.
Not sure what the time off is in NYC...

[azulsombra]

(10-21-2012 01:16 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

LOL ,thats ignorance at its best. i am retired NYPD. i assure you i and my co workers never arrested somebody who didn't deserve it or in fact actually broke the law,DUH. Truth is average citizen expects the laws to be followed and obeyed. If people do not like the laws , well they can make a big stink to change it , but MINORITIES, do cause the most violent crimes in the large cities. Thats a statistical fact. I think most cops would love to work in easy going suburbs BUT ,they are placed where needed. Just as a note, most violent crimes is minority on minority. Seriously, I ,like most cops tried to do the least possible,we do not get paid more for arresting people and most of us hate paper work. Its just that there are so many idiots doing obvious stupid things that are dangerous and against the law. pot isn't illegal in small quantity in NYC by the way ,it is a violation to use in public , which it should be. Heck i think smokers should smoke at home and not pollute everyone else but thats my own pet peeve. I heard of police in Germany and Spain actually being more able to use more force than most American cops so the comparison isn't relevant to all of Euro countries. I am not a Dentist , I do not give my input how they should do their job,i find it funny how untrained people always have to think they have to tell cops how to do thier job ,something they know nothing about.
if any minorities on this forum have been STOPPED by cops ,well I apologize. But blame the minority victims, they are the one who give police the descriptions of who the potential suspects are. i thought that would be common sense. When the suspect is blond and blue eyes guess what? The cops stop someone fitting that description. Its really something average people with common street smarts would comprehend, unfortunately, we have found normal folks lack this common sense . Its sad really because it sets an us vs them mentality which is a deservice to all.

LOL
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were a good cop. Unless your OMNISCIENT how can you be sure of what other officers have done when your not around? You lose all credibility when you make statements like that. DUH

Perhaps you have a THEORY about why no country in the developed or even undeveloped world has an incarceration rate that approaches that of the U.S.?Why does the U.S. need so many more prisoners than other countries? Why does our incarceration rate keep GROWING even through crime rates are so much lower than decades ago? Why do we eagerly spend so much money on building jails yet feel so comfortable cutting back basic supports for the poor and working class?