Quote: (10-22-2012 05:00 PM)Sabra Wrote:
Quote: (10-22-2012 04:18 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:
Quote: (10-22-2012 04:06 PM)Vicious Wrote:
I don't understand this pathological limiting belief that family is something only possible inside the boundaries of marriage.
It's tradition. It's also a way of staking your claim to your woman. Problem is these days
women see male support and protection as a right instead of a privilege as it should be
I wouldn't call belief in a traditional family structure a 'pathological limiting belief', or a simple tradition. It's worked well enough for a few thousand years.
Despite the fact that many marriages are very screwed up or just fail, there are also many that work. And when it comes to raising kids, all things being equal, I believe it's better to raise a child with a mother and father together than separated.
That isn't to say that kids of divorced or unmarried parents are necessarily gonna end up screwed up, but a child should have both parents as a constant influence coming up. Not to mention the extended family of both parents. I wouldn't be comfortable with my kid being raised by his mom and only seeing him on weekends, for example.
You may say that a child may be better off with separated parents than in an unhappy home with married parents, or that a man doesn't have to sacrifice everything for his family, but there's still an element of shirking responsibility in all that. If you're not ready for sacrifice and responsibility, don't get married, and for damn sure don't have kids.
Many men get to thinking about their legacy at some point in life. Most of us want to leave something behind to be remembered by. Some may be fortunate or good enough to do this through their life's work, but most will be remembered mainly through their family. This is one of a man's major motivators in having children, though I don't hear many talk about it on this board. Also, people on here talk about men as primitive beings (sleep, eat, fuck, fight), but the primitive motivation for sex has always been reproduction. The whole issue of offspring seems to be missing for a lot of people on here. Maybe it's just me, but I've always wanted to be a dad, along with all the responsibility that comes with it.
Fascinating how you didn´t get it.
I think what Vicious had in mind when he wrote that post was something resembling the life of my parents. They are now together for more than 25 years, all the time living together, keeping separate bank accounts. Still happy with each other. Guess what, they aren´t married. My dad even used to pay alimony for me, cause it´s required by law. In my opinion they are the best parents one could possibly have, and I´m grateful they guided me through the start of my life so I could become who I am today.
It´s quite a common relationship model here, and I think also in other parts of Europe. Society didn´t collapse.
It always struck me how people from the anglosphere are so obsessed with marriage. Your culture is very diverse, some parts progressive, others conservative, some religious, others modern-materialistic, yet you all, regardless of your background (simplistic generalization detected), seem to think of marriage as an important aim in life, something everyone should strive for to live happily everafter. It really is that good! Every other form of raising children is dysfunctional for sure!
Your culture, popular and classic, really hammers the idea in, beginning in childhood, that this is important and makes you feel guilty and outcast if you don´t obey. How could you, what are you thinking, won't somebody please think of the children!
It´s rather amusing if you try to explain it to them, because many americans can´t even understand that family ≠ marriage. In their mind, those words are inextricably intertwined. Maybe Marx was right, existence determines consciousness.
So yes, there is family without marriage.