[Belgrano]

(10-22-2012 05:00 PM)Sabra Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 04:18 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 04:06 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

I don't understand this pathological limiting belief that family is something only possible inside the boundaries of marriage.

It's tradition. It's also a way of staking your claim to your woman. Problem is these days
women see male support and protection as a right instead of a privilege as it should be

I wouldn't call belief in a traditional family structure a 'pathological limiting belief', or a simple tradition. It's worked well enough for a few thousand years.

Despite the fact that many marriages are very screwed up or just fail, there are also many that work. And when it comes to raising kids, all things being equal, I believe it's better to raise a child with a mother and father together than separated.

That isn't to say that kids of divorced or unmarried parents are necessarily gonna end up screwed up, but a child should have both parents as a constant influence coming up. Not to mention the extended family of both parents. I wouldn't be comfortable with my kid being raised by his mom and only seeing him on weekends, for example.

You may say that a child may be better off with separated parents than in an unhappy home with married parents, or that a man doesn't have to sacrifice everything for his family, but there's still an element of shirking responsibility in all that. If you're not ready for sacrifice and responsibility, don't get married, and for damn sure don't have kids.

Many men get to thinking about their legacy at some point in life. Most of us want to leave something behind to be remembered by. Some may be fortunate or good enough to do this through their life's work, but most will be remembered mainly through their family. This is one of a man's major motivators in having children, though I don't hear many talk about it on this board. Also, people on here talk about men as primitive beings (sleep, eat, fuck, fight), but the primitive motivation for sex has always been reproduction. The whole issue of offspring seems to be missing for a lot of people on here. Maybe it's just me, but I've always wanted to be a dad, along with all the responsibility that comes with it.

Fascinating how you didn´t get it.
I think what Vicious had in mind when he wrote that post was something resembling the life of my parents. They are now together for more than 25 years, all the time living together, keeping separate bank accounts. Still happy with each other. Guess what, they aren´t married. My dad even used to pay alimony for me, cause it´s required by law. In my opinion they are the best parents one could possibly have, and I´m grateful they guided me through the start of my life so I could become who I am today.
It´s quite a common relationship model here, and I think also in other parts of Europe. Society didn´t collapse.

It always struck me how people from the anglosphere are so obsessed with marriage. Your culture is very diverse, some parts progressive, others conservative, some religious, others modern-materialistic, yet you all, regardless of your background (simplistic generalization detected), seem to think of marriage as an important aim in life, something everyone should strive for to live happily everafter. It really is that good! Every other form of raising children is dysfunctional for sure!
Your culture, popular and classic, really hammers the idea in, beginning in childhood, that this is important and makes you feel guilty and outcast if you don´t obey. How could you, what are you thinking, won't somebody please think of the children!
It´s rather amusing if you try to explain it to them, because many americans can´t even understand that family ≠ marriage. In their mind, those words are inextricably intertwined. Maybe Marx was right, existence determines consciousness.

So yes, there is family without marriage.

[Parlay44]

New inbox reply from a fellow forum member

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1. How did you meet your wife? We met at a work related function.

2. What was it about her that made you consider marrying her? She was very attractive, a good and decent person and held similar values. She grew up mostly outside of the US and was therefore less spoiled than American girls. Interestingly enough, I met her in my blue pill days and she mentioned that she thought a man should lead a relationship. That seemed weird to me at the time.

3. Have you ever cheated? Hell yes. Repeatedly. Not proud of it. Wife put on quite more than a few pounds after pregnancy and kept it on. From there, the attraction went downhill. I tried broaching the subject, working out together, dieting together, being supportive, yada yada - still in fat city. If there were no kids involved I’d be gone. She’s otherwise a wonderful person and a terrific mother. But man, even looking at her through my wife goggles, it’s a train wreck. Like Richard Pryor mentioned in his “Mudbone” stand up routine “I’m in love with a bitch I can’t stand.”

4. What's your secret to happiness and staying married? So far, it consists of putting the kids first above her and I. And keeping plates spinning on the side.

5. How often do you have sex with her? Two to three times a month. Yeah, exactly. Its like living and sleeping with a room mate. I was faithful for a long while until I realized that since I wasn’t attracted to her, I was sneaking around to jack off to porn in my own house and realized, hey, this is like being a teenager living with my mom. I decided, screw that, I’m getting the real thing.

6. Does she still initiate sex or do you have to pester her for it? See, # 5. She rarely initiates since she’s self conscious about her appearance but isn’t doing a flipping thing to address it.

7. Did having kids ruin everything between you two? No, kids are awesome. They make things more complicated for sure, but they are great, largely because of her efforts.

8. Does she work and share the bills? Yes she does. So if the shit hits the fan my exposure is limited to child support (which I would gladly pay anyway) and a perhaps a small amount of alimony, plus any property settlement.

9. How much of an influence have her friends and family had on your relationship with her? To my knowledge, they don’t really influence our relationship.

10. Are you still the man of the house or have things balanced out over time? I am still the man of the house. But that does not mean that I skate. I mow lawns, fix shit, do the exterior house cleaning and share in some of the cooking.

11. Do you regret getting married? Fucking A. Here’s the thing. I married a pretty good girl. But for me, physical attraction is a big, huge, fucking, part of the deal. I expect it is for most men. I don’t expect her to look like the pretty young lady that I married fifteen some odd years ago. I was all in for drooping tits, wrinkles, stretch marks and maybe a few extra pounds. But when your beautiful bride turns to a plus sized version of herself it hurts man, it kills you. So for you single guys out there, in addition to all the other shortcomings of marriage, ask yourself, is she gonna be on the plus side of the two thirds of American adults who are overweight and one third (and growing) cohort who are obese? Like them odds?

12. Are you still with her out of convenience or obligation? I’m with her solely for my obligation to my kids. I want them raised in a two parent home. If I do get caught cheating, I’m willing to deal with the consequences.

13. Why are you on this forum if you're happily married and committed? See above.

14. Have you ever proposed to a woman and been turned down? Explain. Nope.

[Sabra]

(10-22-2012 06:27 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 05:00 PM)Sabra Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 04:18 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 04:06 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

I don't understand this pathological limiting belief that family is something only possible inside the boundaries of marriage.

It's tradition. It's also a way of staking your claim to your woman. Problem is these days
women see male support and protection as a right instead of a privilege as it should be

I wouldn't call belief in a traditional family structure a 'pathological limiting belief', or a simple tradition. It's worked well enough for a few thousand years.

Despite the fact that many marriages are very screwed up or just fail, there are also many that work. And when it comes to raising kids, all things being equal, I believe it's better to raise a child with a mother and father together than separated.

That isn't to say that kids of divorced or unmarried parents are necessarily gonna end up screwed up, but a child should have both parents as a constant influence coming up. Not to mention the extended family of both parents. I wouldn't be comfortable with my kid being raised by his mom and only seeing him on weekends, for example.

You may say that a child may be better off with separated parents than in an unhappy home with married parents, or that a man doesn't have to sacrifice everything for his family, but there's still an element of shirking responsibility in all that. If you're not ready for sacrifice and responsibility, don't get married, and for damn sure don't have kids.

Many men get to thinking about their legacy at some point in life. Most of us want to leave something behind to be remembered by. Some may be fortunate or good enough to do this through their life's work, but most will be remembered mainly through their family. This is one of a man's major motivators in having children, though I don't hear many talk about it on this board. Also, people on here talk about men as primitive beings (sleep, eat, fuck, fight), but the primitive motivation for sex has always been reproduction. The whole issue of offspring seems to be missing for a lot of people on here. Maybe it's just me, but I've always wanted to be a dad, along with all the responsibility that comes with it.

Fascinating how you didn´t get it.
I think what Vicious had in mind when he wrote that post was something resembling the life of my parents. They are now together for more than 25 years, all the time living together, keeping separate bank accounts. Still happy with each other. Guess what, they aren´t married. My dad even used to pay alimony for me, cause it´s required by law. In my opinion they are the best parents one could possibly have, and I´m grateful they guided me through the start of my life so I could become who I am today.
It´s quite a common relationship model here, and I think also in other parts of Europe. Society didn´t collapse.

It always struck me how people from the anglosphere are so obsessed with marriage. Your culture is very diverse, some parts progressive, others conservative, some religious, others modern-materialistic, yet you all, regardless of your background (simplistic generalization detected), seem to think of marriage as an important aim in life, something everyone should strive for to live happily everafter. It really is that good! Every other form of raising children is dysfunctional for sure!
Your culture, popular and classic, really hammers the idea in, beginning in childhood, that this is important and makes you feel guilty and outcast if you don´t obey. How could you, what are you thinking, won't somebody please think of the children!
It´s rather amusing if you try to explain it to them, because many americans can´t even understand that family ≠ marriage. In their mind, those words are inextricably intertwined. Maybe Marx was right, existence determines consciousness.

So yes, there is family without marriage.

You completely misunderstood my last post, and most likely did not even read my first post on the subject.

My point was not to push marriage on anyone. Read my first post - I can completely understand why people don't get married. And I stated that unmarried couples can do a fine job of raising kids. In any case, the situation you describe of a couple living together and raising kids, but not being formally married, is basically the same as being married. In most countries, you'd be considered a common law couple, with most of the same legal constraints.

I'm not saying that a couple needs to be in a traditional, monogamous relationship to be good parents. I know a married couple with an open relationship, and they're great parents.

The point of my post was to stress the responsibility involved in choosing to have a child. Though women are caught up in the ceremony, the ring, the status, it's not the legal stature of marriage that is really important, it's the commitment of joining families and raising children. I know a woman who got sick of looking for the right guy and just got pregnant to raise a kid on her own, even though she can't support the kid without government money. I know guys who knocked a random girl up, split, and never paid child support. People are free to do whatever the hell they want, but are either of the people in these examples giving their kids the same opportunities to succeed as kids raised with two parents? This is what I describe as shirking responsibility.

I also explained in my post part of the reason why I want to have children. It's interesting that you note how in Europe it's becoming more common to live with someone but not marry. I'll also point out that birth rates in Europe are at all time lows. Interesting to think about the relationship between the two things.

Also, I'm from Israel, and have lived in many places and experienced many cultures. It's presumptuous on your part to assume otherwise.

[Therapsid]

(10-22-2012 06:27 PM)Celtic_Austrian Wrote:  

It always struck me how people from the anglosphere are so obsessed with marriage. Your culture is very diverse, some parts progressive, others conservative, some religious, others modern-materialistic, yet you all, regardless of your background (simplistic generalization detected), seem to think of marriage as an important aim in life, something everyone should strive for to live happily everafter. It really is that good! Every other form of raising children is dysfunctional for sure!
Your culture, popular and classic, really hammers the idea in, beginning in childhood, that this is important and makes you feel guilty and outcast if you don´t obey. How could you, what are you thinking, won't somebody please think of the children!
It´s rather amusing if you try to explain it to them, because many americans can´t even understand that family ≠ marriage. In their mind, those words are inextricably intertwined. Maybe Marx was right, existence determines consciousness.

So yes, there is family without marriage.

America isn't like Europe. Americans, particular black and Hispanic, but also lower class whites, have demonstrated a singular inability to maintain the kind of pseudo-marriage cohabitation prevalent in parts of Europe. The decline in marriage in America has been strongly correlated with a decline in long-term relationships between couples with children.

[Parlay44]

New anonymous inbox reply

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Don't want google to bite me in the ass

1. How did you meet your wife? Former Coworker
2. What was it about her that made you consider marrying her? Smart, attractive, intelligent, NOT clingy
3. Have you ever cheated? Yes - approx 25times so far over past 2-3 years (Together 8 Married 1.5) about 1/2 are P4P as being married does not present great logistics.
4. What's your secret to happiness and staying married? Mutual respect and understanding, ignore the small shit, keep moving forward with life.
5. How often do you have sex with her? Few times a month
6. Does she still initiate sex or do you have to pester her for it? She has an issue which causes her discomfort during sex.. it's the main cause of #5 and #3 regretfully
7. Did having kids ruin everything between you two? no kids
8. Does she work and share the bills? Yes - She provides ~40% of income
9. How much of an influence have her friends and family had on your relationship with her? None really
10. Are you still the man of the house or have things balanced out over time? 70/30 - Being married is a give take.. you give some house chores, you get space and head. She gives food/laundry, she gets fancy overpriced heels/bags.
11. Do you regret getting married? Difficult question.. She's both my best friend, intellectual equal, and great person. Trips, weekends, outings are all amazing. I look forward to time spent with her. Physically? Not there. Gained weight, significant lack of sex.
12. Are you still with her out of convenience or obligation? Not really - adults make decisions, ive made the decision to try to "have my cake and eat it too" - Will it backfire? time will tell
13. Why are you on this forum if you're happily married and committed? Multiple reasons.. relive the past, prepare for the future, and hell, some of you guys are hilarious
14. Have you ever proposed to a woman and been turned down? Explain. Nope

[MrLemon]

Found this thread late but what the hell.

Been married 16 years. 2 kids who are everything to me. Everything.

Sex maybe 4-6 times a year. That's right guys. At 50+ we have started losing interest. I don't care as much, the testosterone levels have dropped a bit. But hen I want it, she is totally accommodating and quite sweet about it. When we were younger we fucked like animals.

She's getting old and fat. I don't care. She's a fantastic wife and an amazing mother who bore my children the old fashioned way, and lets me lead the household. She cooks dinner for me every night, cleans house every day, and hates feminism as much as I do.

I met her through a fetish dating site. Ha ha. She's sub, I'm Dom. Great way to find a wife if you're in the market.

In general, I find most Americans to be total fucking idiots when it comes to marriage. Idiots on a galactic scale. Men and women both have unbelievably impossible expectations and almost no honor, ignorance on an unbelievable level.

We built our own marriage by absolutely ignoring everything that anybody in this fucked up society said. We went back to the 1950s and build our marriage on that. Did the total opposite of what every marriage counselor and website says. 50's style relationships. The work, always have, always will.

My parents got divorced and nearly destroyed me and my siblings, for pathetically selfish reasons. I vowed that I would put a gun to my head and blow my brains out before I would dishonor myself that way. So whatever sacrifice it takes, I make it, to protect the integrity of my family. My wife feels the same.

People always ask "wow, how did you raise your kids so well...they are so great!" I feel like saying "FUCK YOU MORON. It's easy and you know it. All you have to do is care enough to do it right. But you don't, because your a classic american selfish shithead. You and your wife will get divorced soon and destroy your kids." I could say this to most of the other families on my block.

Have I cheated on her? For a long time I visited BDSM houses and hired extremely gorgeous co-eds to let me Dom them, and went to massage parlors to have gorgeous co-eds give me hand jobs. This is the SF area where such things are incredibly easy. But I stopped after a while...too expensive. But it was a great way to satisfy the inner wolf without risking getting some STD bullshit from some slut moron. In general, I have lost my attraction to younger women...they are too fucking stupid to enjoy except as submissives. After so many years, it's all too easy to see past the beauty and see that they are grasping, bitchy, shitty american counts without an ounce of female dignity. 100 years ago women used their beauty to build nations and promote righteousness in an otherwise cruel world. Now women use their beauty to project their own inner cruelty ont o everybody else.

I fucked so so many women when I was single. Women are like stray cats. There is always another one sniffing around.

Had I ever proposed? Are you fucking kidding? Any man who proposes to a woman is a moron. Marriage is a sweet deal for women. If they expect you to propose to them, that automatically proves that they have no fucking idea that they YOU are doing a huge favor marrying THEM. I must have had 10 girlfriends who thought I should marry them. I thought they were idiots. When I finally got married to my wife, I TOLD her we were going to get married, and that we were destined to be together as man and wife. She said "Yes I know." That was it. Then we went to a dive bar and drank martinis.

[Clyde]

I'm separated. lol

Good luck

[esperar]

(10-22-2012 06:56 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Ok I got an inbox reply to this thread from a forum member that wants to remain anonymous. So I'm reposting this for him.
Thank you for sharing brotha.

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Hey just wanted to add to your marriage thread. It was good for me to read through it, and I hope that it can help bring some perspective for some of the other men out there.

1. How did you meet your wife?
At a club on an off night. Her and her two friends were the only attractive women in the place, and me and a buddy started dancing and talking with them. Her gay friend did most of the work actually.

2. What was it about her that made you consider marrying her?
Feminine, attractive, great cook, motherly, only been with one other guy before me, loves working out and staying fit.

3. Have you ever cheated?
Yes. More times than I care to admit. About 20 odd times before marriage, and about 15 times after. After our engagement I was monogamous for 21 months. I barely held it together though. My monogamy ended in a crazy night with two different women with one licking the others fluid from my thighs. I went home, showered and banged my wife. It was a strange feeling, almost like I was back and could finally relax.

4. What's your secret to happiness and staying married?
No secret. I am not totally happy, but only one or two people know this. I am a great actor. If I was a family oriented man, it would be paradise. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. On paper she is the perfect woman. In reality I am bored to tears. I have never pretended to be excited when she buys new silverware. Domesticity makes me lazy.

5. How often do you have sex with her?
About 3-5 times a week. Less now as it taps my energy and desire for meeting new women. I don’t cheat as much as I could though, as I am starting to feel bad about it. She never says no, wakes me with morning BJ’s, gives me the ass when on her rag, etc.

6. Does she still initiate sex or do you have to pester her for it?
She will initiate on weekend mornings or if I have not initiated for a week or so.

7. Did having kids ruin everything between you two?
No kids.

8. Does she work and share the bills?
Yes. Her family is also rich. Her godfather is private jet loaded.

9. How much of an influence have her friends and family had on your relationship with her?
A fair amount. Her mother loves me to pieces. Her dad loves having me for a son in law (my wife is an only child). Her best friend is like a little sister to me. We actually party together more than my wife and I do.

10. Are you still the man of the house or have things balanced out over time?
No question I am still the man of the house. Although I do cook once or twice a week (I like it) and I will wash up when she cooks.

11. Do you regret getting married?
Yes. Without kids, marriage makes no sense to me. I was following the path of tradition hoping that something would click. It never did. Never get married hoping that it will ignite a desire to have a family. Instead get married to wonderful woman in order to have a family.

12. Are you still with her out of convenience or obligation?
Both. Our families are respectable and frown upon divorce. It was this pressure that lead to the marriage in the first place. Make an honest woman out of her and all that. The convenience is obvious. Access to money, ski condos, high end vacations, flats in top tier cities in a few places in the world.

13. Why are you on this forum if you're happily married and committed?
Other than my 21 months of monogamy, I have always enjoyed chasing women. I am not marriage material.

14. Have you ever proposed to a woman and been turned down? Explain.
No. Although when I proposed to my wife, I told her that accepting this ring comes with responsibility. She cannot think that it will change who I am, and if she accepts it she accepts my hound dog ways. I was secretly hoping that she would not accept it. She did.

Sounds to me like you have your wife kept in line. Your mistreatment of her keeps her willing to give you what you want. Sure, she doesn't see it, but she probably has a sense of it.

[Asaxon]

The proposal thing is laughable to me. Pay her with a diamond ring to enter into a business deal that gives her the upper hand? How much more humiliating and pathetic can it get?

[Parlay44]

(01-14-2013 10:37 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

The proposal thing is laughable to me. Pay her with a diamond ring to enter into a business deal that gives her the upper hand? How much more humiliating and pathetic can it get?

There's a subtle psychology to it. If you enter into marriage voluntarily you're more apt to be committed. That's how it's supposed to work anyway. I wonder what the divorce rate is among arranged marriage couples?

[Asaxon]

Well, then why does not the girl propose since her risk is much lower? I cannot tell you how often girlfriends have bothered and tried to bully me into "proposing" which, if you think about it, perverts the actual concept of a "proposal". The thought of kneeling in front of a woman and begging her to accept me is repulsive to me. What self-respecting man does this? The act might have been cute 100 years ago when gender roles were different but in today's " you go grrrrl world" women hardly need another ego booster and entitlement.
Also, don't even get me started on engagement rings and their " tradition" in the anglosphere... Unless your bride is a virgin ( rings were used as collateral for deflowering and dumping) or you enjoy being duped by a marketing campaign by DeBeers you should not purchase carbon for 1000s of $...

[Ovid]

Significantly lower, IIRC. The problem is, how much of that is the couple's commitment, and how much is the super-strong cultural/familial pressure to stick it out. In America, if a girl has a tiff with her husband she's got a cheerleading squad patting her on the back and assuring her she's blameless, condemning her husband and men in general, and suggesting she cut loose for greener pastures. This is not the case in more traditional cultures.

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

(01-14-2013 10:49 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(01-14-2013 10:37 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

The proposal thing is laughable to me. Pay her with a diamond ring to enter into a business deal that gives her the upper hand? How much more humiliating and pathetic can it get?

There's a subtle psychology to it. If you enter into marriage voluntarily you're more apt to be committed. That's how it's supposed to work anyway. I wonder what the divorce rate is among arranged marriage couples?

Besides the symbolism, I view the ring as her purchasing price.

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

Getting on bended knee is weak. Stand up when you propose; It establishes the right expectations for the marriage. If you can arrange for her to be on her knees, even better.

[Parlay44]

New inbox reply from a forum member

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Okay, I'm not married yet, but I'm engaged and will be married in a few months. We've been together for a little over 2 years now and we've been engaged for about 6 months.

1. How did you meet your wife?
In grad school. I negged her pretty hard right off the bat and she apparently already had a thing for me and knew who I was before meeting me. I wasn't trying to pick her up, negs just come naturally to me. After realizing how hard I just negged a hot girl, I figured I had a good chance of picking her up, so that's exactly what I did the next time I saw her. The night that I met her, I already had a sure thing, so I didn't try to pick her up that night.

2. What was it about her that made you consider marrying her?
I posted about this before here. (Removed this link to ensure privacy)

Obviously, I'd prefer if you didn't quote that post word for word, but it gives a deeper understanding of why I decided to marry.

Basically, she had the looks and personality down. I realized that I would regret it if I dumped her, so I stuck with her, fell in love, and once I realized that she would be beneficial for my career, I had both emotional and practical reasons to marry her.

3. Have you ever cheated?
Of course. Four times total. Once was at the beginning of the relationship and she found out about that because the girl I cheated with wanted to break us up so she could have me. It didn't work, I think that just made her love me more. I actually felt guilty about this.

The second time was a couple of months later and while I didn't feel guilty, I did realize how much I loved my girl. Having sex with the other chick was unfulfilling.

The other two times were just opportunistic one night stands with random chicks.

I haven't cheated since getting engaged, mostly because of lack of opportunities. Obviously, it's hard to ensure good logistics when you live with your girl. I have a girl who lives in the same city as us who will let me bang whenever she is free, but I haven't found a decent window of opportunity to get away with it. My best chances are when I travel for work and recently I've been traveling to a middle of nowhere place with few opportunities.

4. What's your secret to happiness and staying married?
Be the man. Choose a woman wisely. You are the head of the family, she must never challenge that. She never will as long as you choose a girl wisely and lead strongly.

5. How often do you have sex with her?
Approx. 6 times per month. I travel most weeks, so we only bang on weekends.

6. Does she still initiate sex or do you have to pester her for it?
I'm usually the initiator but she is almost always receptive. The only times she doesn't want sex is when she is sick. I do get tired of banging the same chick.

7. Did having kids ruin everything between you two?
No kids yet, but we want a lot and will start having kids as soon as we're married.

8. Does she work and share the bills?
Yes. She earns about 25% of our combined income.

9. How much of an influence have her friends and family had on your relationship with her?
Her friends have had very little influence, otherwise we wouldn't be together. Her family is very important to her, so of course I've had to get to know them well and build a good relationship.

10. Are you still the man of the house or have things balanced out over time?
I am the man.

11. Do you regret getting married?
No.

12. Are you still with her out of convenience or obligation?
I'm with her primarily out of love.

13. Why are you on this forum if you're happily married and committed?
Because I will never leave the game. Variety is too important to me.

14. Have you ever proposed to a woman and been turned down? Explain.
Nope.

[Asaxon]

Purchasing price implies ownership... look at most marriages and who bosses around who. Also, she gets to sell/ keep the ring once she is no longer " haaaapppyyyy"...seems like a bad investment. I talked marriage with three girls during my blue pill days and always said I would not buy a ring and found the custom offensive/ stupid. They all grumpily submitted to the idea after a while but insisted on keeping it secret and buying a cz to not lose " face" in public. Apparently, American women define their value by who has the bigger ring.
Now I wonder if refusing ring and shenanigans would actually be good advice for marriage-minded guys, not just to keep ones dignity and cash but to establish dominance and higher value. Running to the jeweler to buy the socially mandated gift/ payment seems pretty "beta" and spineless to me. If you actually believe she deserves payment to be with you then you must think low of yourself. Might as well play "she's soooo hiiiigh above me" as your soundtrack;-)

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

(01-14-2013 11:34 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Purchasing price implies ownership... look at most marriages and who bosses around who. Also, she gets to sell/ keep the ring once she is no longer " haaaapppyyyy"...seems like a bad investment. I talked marriage with three girls during my blue pill days and always said I would not buy a ring and found the custom offensive/ stupid. They all grumpily submitted to the idea after a while but insisted on keeping it secret and buying a cz to not lose " face" in public. Apparently, American women define their value by who has the bigger ring.
Now I wonder if refusing ring and shenanigans would actually be good advice for marriage-minded guys, not just to keep ones dignity and cash but to establish dominance and higher value. Running to the jeweler to buy the socially mandated gift/ payment seems pretty "beta" and spineless to me. If you actually believe she deserves payment to be with you then you must think low of yourself. Might as well play "she's soooo hiiiigh above me" as your soundtrack;-)

I agree with you. Most chicks are status whores and don't deserve marriage. Pick a girl who is offended by other girls' status whoring.

I elicited wifey's views on marriage before I proposed. I knew it wasn't about status for her, and that she would marry me with a simple non-diamond band. So I figured she was worth a diamond.

The girls who most value diamonds don't deserve them.

[Timoteo]

Quote:

11. Do you regret getting married?
Yes. Without kids, marriage makes no sense to me. I was following the path of tradition hoping that something would click. It never did. Never get married hoping that it will ignite a desire to have a family. Instead get married to wonderful woman in order to have a family.

I'm not married, but this is how I've always viewed it. Marry only if you are sure you want children, and want to give them a shot at a nuclear family setting. I would never marry for companionship, or just because SHE wanted kids.

[ColSpanker]

I have to ask: what Fetish Website did you find her?
Not that I ever visit these places. No Sir. Nope. Not me.

(01-14-2013 12:56 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Found this thread late but what the hell.

Been married 16 years. 2 kids who are everything to me. Everything.

Sex maybe 4-6 times a year. That's right guys. At 50+ we have started losing interest. I don't care as much, the testosterone levels have dropped a bit. But hen I want it, she is totally accommodating and quite sweet about it. When we were younger we fucked like animals.

She's getting old and fat. I don't care. She's a fantastic wife and an amazing mother who bore my children the old fashioned way, and lets me lead the household. She cooks dinner for me every night, cleans house every day, and hates feminism as much as I do.

I met her through a fetish dating site. Ha ha. She's sub, I'm Dom. Great way to find a wife if you're in the market.

In general, I find most Americans to be total fucking idiots when it comes to marriage. Idiots on a galactic scale. Men and women both have unbelievably impossible expectations and almost no honor, ignorance on an unbelievable level.

We built our own marriage by absolutely ignoring everything that anybody in this fucked up society said. We went back to the 1950s and build our marriage on that. Did the total opposite of what every marriage counselor and website says. 50's style relationships. The work, always have, always will.

My parents got divorced and nearly destroyed me and my siblings, for pathetically selfish reasons. I vowed that I would put a gun to my head and blow my brains out before I would dishonor myself that way. So whatever sacrifice it takes, I make it, to protect the integrity of my family. My wife feels the same.

People always ask "wow, how did you raise your kids so well...they are so great!" I feel like saying "FUCK YOU MORON. It's easy and you know it. All you have to do is care enough to do it right. But you don't, because your a classic american selfish shithead. You and your wife will get divorced soon and destroy your kids." I could say this to most of the other families on my block.

Have I cheated on her? For a long time I visited BDSM houses and hired extremely gorgeous co-eds to let me Dom them, and went to massage parlors to have gorgeous co-eds give me hand jobs. This is the SF area where such things are incredibly easy. But I stopped after a while...too expensive. But it was a great way to satisfy the inner wolf without risking getting some STD bullshit from some slut moron. In general, I have lost my attraction to younger women...they are too fucking stupid to enjoy except as submissives. After so many years, it's all too easy to see past the beauty and see that they are grasping, bitchy, shitty american counts without an ounce of female dignity. 100 years ago women used their beauty to build nations and promote righteousness in an otherwise cruel world. Now women use their beauty to project their own inner cruelty ont o everybody else.

I fucked so so many women when I was single. Women are like stray cats. There is always another one sniffing around.

Had I ever proposed? Are you fucking kidding? Any man who proposes to a woman is a moron. Marriage is a sweet deal for women. If they expect you to propose to them, that automatically proves that they have no fucking idea that they YOU are doing a huge favor marrying THEM. I must have had 10 girlfriends who thought I should marry them. I thought they were idiots. When I finally got married to my wife, I TOLD her we were going to get married, and that we were destined to be together as man and wife. She said "Yes I know." That was it. Then we went to a dive bar and drank martinis.

[cardguy]

Diamonds are bullshit. This article on the subject is a real eye-opener:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...nd/304575/

The article was later extended into an excellent book.

[LooTa]

(10-16-2012 02:20 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Is anyone on this forum married? I have a few questions I'd like to post and ask you guys to answer
as honestly as you can. Feel free to answer any or all that you like.

1. How did you meet your wife? through work. Used to do a job that allowed me to roam the casino complex doing nothing much at all. So naturally, I spent most of my time hitting up chicks.
2. What was it about her that made you consider marrying her? She looked after me well - a traditional woman, chef by trade. Loved to cook and loved to fuck.
3. Have you ever cheated? yes once before we were married, once after.
4. What's your secret to happiness and staying married? make sure she know's you're the boss.
5. How often do you have sex with her? 4 or 5 times a month. On a similar note, last night was a huge milestone - after years of 'nothing goes in my ass, ever' I found she can make an exception for my cock. the trainings finally paying off...
6. Does she still initiate sex or do you have to pester her for it? She never initiates. her idea of initiation is not actively resisting.
7. Did having kids ruin everything between you two? yes, especially when you throw post natal depression in to the mix.
8. Does she work and share the bills? Works about 15 hours a week. It helps, and gives us some time alone
9. How much of an influence have her friends and family had on your relationship with her? Not so much - I know her family love me and i'm not aware of any of her friends having it in for me.
10. Are you still the man of the house or have things balanced out over time? I was pretty passive at the beginning, especially since she's been pregnant for most of the marraige. (at the time of our wedding, we had an 18 month old daughter and she was 3 months pregnant with my son) but once the PND started fucking things up, I had to try something to make it work. That something was game, so the longer times go on, the stronger my position as the head of the house becomes.
11. Do you regret getting married? yes. not cause I regret being with her, but because it limits my options should things break down in future.
12. Are you still with her out of convenience or obligation? nar, I'm with her cause I love her and the kids.
13. Why are you on this forum if you're happily married and committed? For the pleasure of your company, of course.
14. Have you ever proposed to a woman and been turned down? Explain. No, I didn't even propose to my wife. It was just sort of 'yeah we'll get married'. None of that "on bended knee" shit.

[Caligula]

As for the purchasing price, many cultures have dowries. It's a custom where the bride's family pays the groom to take her on. Often these were small fortunes. The family thus showed its gratitude to the husband that he was taking the girl off their hands and helped ensure a prosperous future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry

Somehow the engagement ring has survived but the dowry has been phased out!

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

(01-14-2013 09:00 PM)Caligula Wrote:  

As for the purchasing price, many cultures have dowries. It's a custom where the bride's family pays the groom to take her on. Often these were small fortunes. The family thus showed its gratitude to the husband that he was taking the girl off their hands and helped ensure a prosperous future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry

Somehow the engagement ring has survived but the dowry has been phased out!

Many cultures have a bride price. Economists have studied what factors determined whether a culture practices one or the other, or both. http://faculty.arts.ubc.ca/asiwan/docume...an-jep.pdf

[Asaxon]

Sounds typical of 21st century America: keep the "traditions" that benefit women and throw out the ones benefitting men. If a woman is equally strong and valuable, has equal rights to a man then why does she need a diamond or any kind of compensation to enter into an equal relationship? The "tradition" is partially an invention to sell more diamonds and partially "divorce insurance" from times when women were financially ruined if divorced or un-engaged. None of this applies anymore so the diamond to me is a symbol of female entitlement. It becomes even more questionable when we see who stands to gain more from a wedding and/ or divorce. It is men who should receive payment for taking the enormous risk nowadays.
Now all of you who call it a "bride price" delude yourself if you believe that after payment you will "own" her or have gotten any kind of ownership rights. If a bride were property of a husband or family like in some cultures the word "price" would apply but in the west??? We all know how demure and submissive most wives are, and that is before they file for 70% of all divorces...

[Nomad77]

Giovonny answer to a similar question was a beauty. He said: it's just a matter of deciding what kind of problems you want to deal with. Whether you get married, get into a LTR, or stay single and game you will have to deal with problems. It's the just the type of problems will differ depending on which option you chose.