Texas Prophet inspired me to write a data sheet about Seoul. I think it's relevant because I used to work/live there, I just got back a few days ago, and a lot of the info I read on the forum was dated... plus Seoul changes so quickly: I liken it to New York on steroids filled with Asians.
For background, I'm a Korean American in my early 30's, 5'10", medium build, pretty good but not great Korean skills.
Standard Data Sheet.
City Overview :
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Girls : The quality of the girls is extremely dependent on what area of the city you are in. If you're in a hip place like Apkujeong, Gangnam or Itaewon (on a weekend night) then the talent will naturally be at a 6+ level. If you're putzing around a no-name area, it'll be a lot less. Thankfully, Korean culture prizes beauty above just about all other attributes in women, so for the most part, females take that shit surriouss.
As such, plastic surgery is rampant, and Koreans tend to have a certain image. Definitely taller and leggier than most Japanese, but there are relatively few girls with big boobs (unlike China). Although lately, a lot of the younger generation have really started to put time into the gym and I've noticed more fake boobs around town. It used to be that it was enough for girls to just have a pretty face and a stick-thin body, but now they're shooting for the entire package. Nice, right? Well... there's pros and cons.
Sight seeing : Lots of temples, museums, the DMZ (if you're a history buff), the Han River, etc. Seoul is not naturally a beautiful city, if you want nature, you should go out into the countryside... and a different forum for that matter. WTF you want to learn about that shit here in RVF?![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Lodging : Koreans aren't really big on hostels, and I've never stayed at one, so I have no leg to stand on when it comes to that niche. As for budget (sub $100/night), there are lots of independent places called "officetels" that are pretty spacious and usually rent out floors in office buildings. Midrange you have a bunch of corporate hotels that will go anywhere from $100-$250 that include the Hilton, Hyatt, Club Carlson, and all of the regular players. Examples of some top end hotels are probably the Intercontinental in COEX mall, the Park Hyatt in Gangnam and the Grand Hyatt Namsan. Also, if you manage to SNL a girl, there are tons of "love motels" around that go for $40-$80 for a few hours. Necessary evil when most unmarried people live at home with mom/dad.
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Day game spots : Even if your Korean is super tight (mine isn't, I speak at a 70% mark and I have a 2-100's ratio) day game is not the way to go in Seoul. Korea is still considered the most Confucian country in the world, and that philosophy teaches strict hierarchies in society: people are taught from an early age that you should know the status of who you're talking to, and if you're some joker off the street, this totally goes against that mantra. A big exception is if you're obviously extremely wealthy and holler at a girl in an exotic sports car. See the video of the guy in the Audi R8 asking for girls' numbers off the street in Apkujeong in the "South Korean men are doomed" thread. Incidentally, my American friend shipped his Maserati from Hong Kong to Korea a few years back and used to do the exact same thing... at night.
-
Nightlife spots : Always have to be on top of this shit because the "it" places change so frequently. Currently as of October 2012, the most happening night club is Octagon in Nonhyundong. Again, status is king here. I went twice this past trip: the first time I ran regular dance and bar game and got probably an 80% blowout rate, a few numbers, and one tiny makeout before the girl got pulled away by her friends to some other dude's table. The next night, I swallowed my pride and bought a table with a couple of other guys. At 1.2 million won ($1100 tax/tip included) split four ways, it was roughly the same as an LA club (infinitely cheaper than Vegas though)... After opening girls on the dance floor, I'd say at least 50% came upstairs with us after finding out we had a table. I know there are lots of guys saying "True players don't do table service" but I think that's the worst kind of inflexible bullshit in my book. Have to adapt in different circumstances and while in LA I think bottle service is ridiculous, the SNL that I had with the cute/sexy music teacher that night helps me realize I made the right decision. Did not see one fat girl present (as I'm sure they realize they'd be wasting everyone's time) and the average was 6.75, which in my book is eminently bangable. Saw at least twenty different 8's and a few 9's as well which is extremely rare in LA's Koreatown...
Also, Hongdae is where a lot of the universities are in Seoul and there are a lot of smaller more underground clubs there. Extra plus is that on the last Friday of each month, they have a "club night" where $15 gets you into 20 different clubs with one cover charge. Talent here is decidedly more varied because it tends to be much cheaper for both guys and girls.
Finally, Itaewon is traditionally the foreigners hangout spot. "Hooker Hill" is where a lot of American GI's go and I'm sure you can tell by its name the type of entertainment you can find there. However, Itaewon has been experiencing sort of a resurgence and a lot of Koreans go there for bars, clubs and a lot of different types of ethnic foods.
-
Ease of approaching : Koreans are continuing to send their children overseas to study, primarily in the US, UK, Australia and other English speaking countries (Philippines, Malta, etc). That being said, conversational ability is generally pretty low and girls tend to be shy about their inability to speak regular everyday English. You'll find that this is less in Itaewon (the foreigner area) and certain extremely high end bars and clubs where monied Koreans go to hang out. If you're into this, stay in Itaewon or go to JJ's in the Grand Hyatt Namsan or the bar at the W Hotel in Walker Hill, both noted pickup joints for English speaking Koreans and foreigners alike.
If you want to go native - especially as a foreigner, x2 if you're black (I'm just saying how it is, don't kill the messenger!) - then you better bring your "A plus double good" game. Native guys have come a long way in the past decade: before they used to be schlubby goofs and my English speaking friends and I would just kill it. Now all these motherfuckers are going to the gym, wearing brand name clothing, doing their hair perfectly and even wearing 2 inch height inserts in their shoes. What I'm saying is, the competition already tends to be in shape, looks good and most importantly speaks the language and knows the culture.
The white friend I know that does the best with 8+ Korean girls tries to accentuate the differences. First of all, he's jacked as hell and although not super tall at 5' 9", he gets a lot of interest from girls because he's so much more muscular than normally lean Koreans. He also has blonde hair and green eyes and makes sure to play it up by actually dying his hair lighter. Plus, the guy speaks broken Korean but he gets the focus off of girls' insecurity to speak English by saying ridiculous things that invariably make them laugh.
I know one black guy who's a defense contractor on the army base there and he absolutely kills it with the super cute hip-hop girls in Hongdae. Much like the hip hop craze in Japan, there's a certain subset of girls who are crazy into hip hop and bagging an African American (or any other type of black person) is a huge notch in their belt. Play to your strengths, or as Bruce Lee said, "be like water". In other words, why try and break down centuries of social conditioning in girls whose parents taught them "dark is bad" when you can just go for the girls that're into your style and flavor?
I'm putting this in here because this forum is about truth and not political correctness: Girls who are 8.5+ are fucking hard to get in Korea. Fine bitches are getting their shit paid for by celebrities and sons of the people that own Samsung, LG, Kia and a myriad of other companies. These girls live probably the greatest lives in Korea: never have to work, study minimally, and are destined to become trophy wives to aforementioned trust fund kids. You don't speak the language, know the culture and aren't as rich as your competitors? Then you better be one famous, good looking, charming motherfucker. I'm not saying not to try, because I'm sure it can happen at one point or another, I'm just saying that it will be extremely difficult.
That being said, 5.5's and up to 7's are surprisingly easy. Most of these girls don't go to the high end spots, but congregate in the college ghettos. Open them in English (they're going to giggle like crazy because they're not used to foreigners) speak the broke-ass Korean that you know, and invite them to go to another joint. Korean liquor (aka Soju) is cheap ($3 for a 375ml bottle) and no matter how much a girl drinks, you're not going to spend more than $30 on getting both of you full and blitzed. Then pay the $50-$70 for a love motel and get with it. I'm an equal parts quantity/quality guy and I can say that for every 7.5 I've banged, I've probably banged five times as many 6's. In my 2 years spent working in Seoul and the 10 times I've been back since then, I can honestly say I've only banged two 8's and one 9 in Korea. Is this what they mean about decreasing marginal utility?
-
Prices and other stuff : Simple... luxury and foreign items are going to be way more expensive than the US/Europe. Food, transportation (taxi, subway) and local items are significantly cheaper. Rent is quite expensive (My friend pays $4500/month for a 1200 foot apartment) but most of you won't have to worry about that stuff.
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Logistics : Once you get to a certain destination, Seoul is very walkable. However, you want to use the taxi, bus or subway to get there. The bus system is extremely confusing (and I speak Korean!) but the subway is the easiest and most comprehensive I've encountered in the world. Taxis are also dirt cheap and there's absolutely no reason to rent a car in Korea. Also note that car insurance is extremely fucked up in Korea and basically whoever has the more expensive car doesn't have to pay. Not as simple as that, but caveat emptor is all I'm saying.
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Overall pros and cons :
Pros : If you couldn't tell already, I fucking love Seoul. The city's got great energy, it's so convenient (you can get anything delivered at any time!) I get to see my friends, I practice my Korean and of course I love the fact that it has the highest concentration of attractive Korean women in the world.
Cons : Having said that, Korea is noisy, congested, smelly (smog + sewer smell = very unpleasant), Koreans tend to be quite insular and rude if you don't know them, and unfortunately, it's not the poosy paradise it once was back in 2002-2004. Girls definitely have more of a bitch shield than they used to have, but keep at it and remember that it's usually not personal: a lot of girls just haven't had experience with foreign guys, and they're embarrassed because they don't know how to act. Now as for your author, they tell me in no uncertain terms to fuck off.
Personal experience : I used to average a girl a week back in the golden era of pickup in Seoul. This past trip, I went for a week and got two bangs: one SNL from the music teacher from Octagon, and an underground casino dealer I met through friends. There's a huge P4P culture in Korea which I'll address in the area below:
-
Final Thoughts : Paid entertainment, as in most of Asia, is huge in Korea. I'm of the opinion that there are some guys that are adamantly against it, and there are some that put way too much stock in it... I'd like to think that I occupy the middle. The scene runs the gamut from quick handjob massage places to ultra high end brothels. With that disclaimer out of the way, the one 9 that I slept with in Korea was someone I met at a "room salon".
Basically, this is a hostess bar/karaoke room that businessmen go to. Some rooms have sex explicitly on the menu, some don't. This one in question was one of the highest-end room salons ($1500 per person) and sex was not included in the menu of services. I was paired with one of the hottest girls (never mind Korean) that I had ever seen in my life. As all of colleagues were middle aged men with paunches, I was by default the most interesting male, and I used every game trick in the book to out psychologize her ass. Took me three weeks of texting her endless lies, two very expensive dinners and killing two bottles of '01 Insignia (bitch didn't even know she was drinking a 99 pointer, she just knew it was expensive) at home to get her to open her legs... but that was the most enjoyable four months of sex I've ever had with anyone in my entire life.
Long story short: If you have an insane desire to bang a 8.5+ in Korea, go to a high end room salon with sex on the menu. Otherwise, try your chances with the fine chicks in the hot clubs... or alternatively, be much more inclined toward success with the slightly lower end 6's-7's in Hongdae, Itaewon and Sinchon. Good luck!
For background, I'm a Korean American in my early 30's, 5'10", medium build, pretty good but not great Korean skills.
Standard Data Sheet.
City Overview :
-
Girls : The quality of the girls is extremely dependent on what area of the city you are in. If you're in a hip place like Apkujeong, Gangnam or Itaewon (on a weekend night) then the talent will naturally be at a 6+ level. If you're putzing around a no-name area, it'll be a lot less. Thankfully, Korean culture prizes beauty above just about all other attributes in women, so for the most part, females take that shit surriouss.
As such, plastic surgery is rampant, and Koreans tend to have a certain image. Definitely taller and leggier than most Japanese, but there are relatively few girls with big boobs (unlike China). Although lately, a lot of the younger generation have really started to put time into the gym and I've noticed more fake boobs around town. It used to be that it was enough for girls to just have a pretty face and a stick-thin body, but now they're shooting for the entire package. Nice, right? Well... there's pros and cons.
Sight seeing : Lots of temples, museums, the DMZ (if you're a history buff), the Han River, etc. Seoul is not naturally a beautiful city, if you want nature, you should go out into the countryside... and a different forum for that matter. WTF you want to learn about that shit here in RVF?
Lodging : Koreans aren't really big on hostels, and I've never stayed at one, so I have no leg to stand on when it comes to that niche. As for budget (sub $100/night), there are lots of independent places called "officetels" that are pretty spacious and usually rent out floors in office buildings. Midrange you have a bunch of corporate hotels that will go anywhere from $100-$250 that include the Hilton, Hyatt, Club Carlson, and all of the regular players. Examples of some top end hotels are probably the Intercontinental in COEX mall, the Park Hyatt in Gangnam and the Grand Hyatt Namsan. Also, if you manage to SNL a girl, there are tons of "love motels" around that go for $40-$80 for a few hours. Necessary evil when most unmarried people live at home with mom/dad.
-
Day game spots : Even if your Korean is super tight (mine isn't, I speak at a 70% mark and I have a 2-100's ratio) day game is not the way to go in Seoul. Korea is still considered the most Confucian country in the world, and that philosophy teaches strict hierarchies in society: people are taught from an early age that you should know the status of who you're talking to, and if you're some joker off the street, this totally goes against that mantra. A big exception is if you're obviously extremely wealthy and holler at a girl in an exotic sports car. See the video of the guy in the Audi R8 asking for girls' numbers off the street in Apkujeong in the "South Korean men are doomed" thread. Incidentally, my American friend shipped his Maserati from Hong Kong to Korea a few years back and used to do the exact same thing... at night.
-
Nightlife spots : Always have to be on top of this shit because the "it" places change so frequently. Currently as of October 2012, the most happening night club is Octagon in Nonhyundong. Again, status is king here. I went twice this past trip: the first time I ran regular dance and bar game and got probably an 80% blowout rate, a few numbers, and one tiny makeout before the girl got pulled away by her friends to some other dude's table. The next night, I swallowed my pride and bought a table with a couple of other guys. At 1.2 million won ($1100 tax/tip included) split four ways, it was roughly the same as an LA club (infinitely cheaper than Vegas though)... After opening girls on the dance floor, I'd say at least 50% came upstairs with us after finding out we had a table. I know there are lots of guys saying "True players don't do table service" but I think that's the worst kind of inflexible bullshit in my book. Have to adapt in different circumstances and while in LA I think bottle service is ridiculous, the SNL that I had with the cute/sexy music teacher that night helps me realize I made the right decision. Did not see one fat girl present (as I'm sure they realize they'd be wasting everyone's time) and the average was 6.75, which in my book is eminently bangable. Saw at least twenty different 8's and a few 9's as well which is extremely rare in LA's Koreatown...
Also, Hongdae is where a lot of the universities are in Seoul and there are a lot of smaller more underground clubs there. Extra plus is that on the last Friday of each month, they have a "club night" where $15 gets you into 20 different clubs with one cover charge. Talent here is decidedly more varied because it tends to be much cheaper for both guys and girls.
Finally, Itaewon is traditionally the foreigners hangout spot. "Hooker Hill" is where a lot of American GI's go and I'm sure you can tell by its name the type of entertainment you can find there. However, Itaewon has been experiencing sort of a resurgence and a lot of Koreans go there for bars, clubs and a lot of different types of ethnic foods.
-
Ease of approaching : Koreans are continuing to send their children overseas to study, primarily in the US, UK, Australia and other English speaking countries (Philippines, Malta, etc). That being said, conversational ability is generally pretty low and girls tend to be shy about their inability to speak regular everyday English. You'll find that this is less in Itaewon (the foreigner area) and certain extremely high end bars and clubs where monied Koreans go to hang out. If you're into this, stay in Itaewon or go to JJ's in the Grand Hyatt Namsan or the bar at the W Hotel in Walker Hill, both noted pickup joints for English speaking Koreans and foreigners alike.
If you want to go native - especially as a foreigner, x2 if you're black (I'm just saying how it is, don't kill the messenger!) - then you better bring your "A plus double good" game. Native guys have come a long way in the past decade: before they used to be schlubby goofs and my English speaking friends and I would just kill it. Now all these motherfuckers are going to the gym, wearing brand name clothing, doing their hair perfectly and even wearing 2 inch height inserts in their shoes. What I'm saying is, the competition already tends to be in shape, looks good and most importantly speaks the language and knows the culture.
The white friend I know that does the best with 8+ Korean girls tries to accentuate the differences. First of all, he's jacked as hell and although not super tall at 5' 9", he gets a lot of interest from girls because he's so much more muscular than normally lean Koreans. He also has blonde hair and green eyes and makes sure to play it up by actually dying his hair lighter. Plus, the guy speaks broken Korean but he gets the focus off of girls' insecurity to speak English by saying ridiculous things that invariably make them laugh.
I know one black guy who's a defense contractor on the army base there and he absolutely kills it with the super cute hip-hop girls in Hongdae. Much like the hip hop craze in Japan, there's a certain subset of girls who are crazy into hip hop and bagging an African American (or any other type of black person) is a huge notch in their belt. Play to your strengths, or as Bruce Lee said, "be like water". In other words, why try and break down centuries of social conditioning in girls whose parents taught them "dark is bad" when you can just go for the girls that're into your style and flavor?
I'm putting this in here because this forum is about truth and not political correctness: Girls who are 8.5+ are fucking hard to get in Korea. Fine bitches are getting their shit paid for by celebrities and sons of the people that own Samsung, LG, Kia and a myriad of other companies. These girls live probably the greatest lives in Korea: never have to work, study minimally, and are destined to become trophy wives to aforementioned trust fund kids. You don't speak the language, know the culture and aren't as rich as your competitors? Then you better be one famous, good looking, charming motherfucker. I'm not saying not to try, because I'm sure it can happen at one point or another, I'm just saying that it will be extremely difficult.
That being said, 5.5's and up to 7's are surprisingly easy. Most of these girls don't go to the high end spots, but congregate in the college ghettos. Open them in English (they're going to giggle like crazy because they're not used to foreigners) speak the broke-ass Korean that you know, and invite them to go to another joint. Korean liquor (aka Soju) is cheap ($3 for a 375ml bottle) and no matter how much a girl drinks, you're not going to spend more than $30 on getting both of you full and blitzed. Then pay the $50-$70 for a love motel and get with it. I'm an equal parts quantity/quality guy and I can say that for every 7.5 I've banged, I've probably banged five times as many 6's. In my 2 years spent working in Seoul and the 10 times I've been back since then, I can honestly say I've only banged two 8's and one 9 in Korea. Is this what they mean about decreasing marginal utility?
-
Prices and other stuff : Simple... luxury and foreign items are going to be way more expensive than the US/Europe. Food, transportation (taxi, subway) and local items are significantly cheaper. Rent is quite expensive (My friend pays $4500/month for a 1200 foot apartment) but most of you won't have to worry about that stuff.
-
Logistics : Once you get to a certain destination, Seoul is very walkable. However, you want to use the taxi, bus or subway to get there. The bus system is extremely confusing (and I speak Korean!) but the subway is the easiest and most comprehensive I've encountered in the world. Taxis are also dirt cheap and there's absolutely no reason to rent a car in Korea. Also note that car insurance is extremely fucked up in Korea and basically whoever has the more expensive car doesn't have to pay. Not as simple as that, but caveat emptor is all I'm saying.
-
Overall pros and cons :
Pros : If you couldn't tell already, I fucking love Seoul. The city's got great energy, it's so convenient (you can get anything delivered at any time!) I get to see my friends, I practice my Korean and of course I love the fact that it has the highest concentration of attractive Korean women in the world.
Cons : Having said that, Korea is noisy, congested, smelly (smog + sewer smell = very unpleasant), Koreans tend to be quite insular and rude if you don't know them, and unfortunately, it's not the poosy paradise it once was back in 2002-2004. Girls definitely have more of a bitch shield than they used to have, but keep at it and remember that it's usually not personal: a lot of girls just haven't had experience with foreign guys, and they're embarrassed because they don't know how to act. Now as for your author, they tell me in no uncertain terms to fuck off.
Personal experience : I used to average a girl a week back in the golden era of pickup in Seoul. This past trip, I went for a week and got two bangs: one SNL from the music teacher from Octagon, and an underground casino dealer I met through friends. There's a huge P4P culture in Korea which I'll address in the area below:
-
Final Thoughts : Paid entertainment, as in most of Asia, is huge in Korea. I'm of the opinion that there are some guys that are adamantly against it, and there are some that put way too much stock in it... I'd like to think that I occupy the middle. The scene runs the gamut from quick handjob massage places to ultra high end brothels. With that disclaimer out of the way, the one 9 that I slept with in Korea was someone I met at a "room salon".
Basically, this is a hostess bar/karaoke room that businessmen go to. Some rooms have sex explicitly on the menu, some don't. This one in question was one of the highest-end room salons ($1500 per person) and sex was not included in the menu of services. I was paired with one of the hottest girls (never mind Korean) that I had ever seen in my life. As all of colleagues were middle aged men with paunches, I was by default the most interesting male, and I used every game trick in the book to out psychologize her ass. Took me three weeks of texting her endless lies, two very expensive dinners and killing two bottles of '01 Insignia (bitch didn't even know she was drinking a 99 pointer, she just knew it was expensive) at home to get her to open her legs... but that was the most enjoyable four months of sex I've ever had with anyone in my entire life.
Long story short: If you have an insane desire to bang a 8.5+ in Korea, go to a high end room salon with sex on the menu. Otherwise, try your chances with the fine chicks in the hot clubs... or alternatively, be much more inclined toward success with the slightly lower end 6's-7's in Hongdae, Itaewon and Sinchon. Good luck!
Last I heard, they were paying averag only around 2 Million won a month, hope you're teaching somewhere ritzy.
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