[Juan Antonio]

A buddy and I hit up a lounge in Toronto this past weekend. Out of 100+ people, we spotted maybe three 2-sets of girls in the entire venue. The rest was comprised of big sets - either big mixed sets of guys and girls hanging out as friends, or big groups of 4+ girls, and a bunch of thirsty dudes on the prowl.

Clearly, this is a common enough phenomenon for an internet meme to have gone viral:

We wondered why there are so few 2-sets at bars and clubs nowadays, and attributed it to Facebook and online dating. Whereas single women in 5-10+ years ago went to "singles bars" actively looking to meet new men, today they're sitting at home in their PJs on Facebook and POF/OKC searching for Mr. Right/Mr. Right Now. Do "singles bars" even exist anymore?

So girls go out in big groups to "party", get attention/validation/free drinks for the night, go home and discreetly booty text their FWB/fuck buddy/ex BF, and get some good sex for the night. Why go home with a random creeper and look like a slut in front of all your friends when you've got dick on tap 24/7 via your smartphone?

This is even more true for smartphone-addicted college girls with vast social circles. And this is also why tourists, cougars and "new to the city" women are easier to pull - they don't have access to vast social circles with dick on tap.

All this leads to far fewer guys pulling from a pure cold approach today than in 2002. Not because guys today have shitty game, but because the number of single women at bars and clubs actually looking to hook up has gone way down. And all due to the explosion of social networking, online dating and smartphones in the past decade, giving girls constant attention, validation and access to an infinite supply of dick.

Thoughts? Particularly interested in hearing from the older 30+ American/Canadian cats if they've also witnessed this change over the years.

[Samseau]

I agree with this 100%. Bars and clubs are getting softer each year. Sucks. Not as bad in NYC though, because there are just so many damn women to hit on that you'll eventually strike oil if you keep digging long enough.

[dog24]

Same here, i got rejected the last five times i approached in a club all in a month time, i didnt approach anymore girls because there werent any hot ones left srs. Maybe i should try to take them away from the guys theyre with?

A female friend of mine who´s in a relationship and i were talking about this this week, she said most of her single friends go out just so they can text their FB at around 3 or 4 pm to come pick them up and go hook up.
She also said in her opinion you cant expect to pick up from cold approach in a club anymore, there are no women available, all of them are closed in their circle.

[jerome]

(10-10-2012 12:51 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  

A buddy and I hit up a lounge in Toronto this past weekend. Out of 100+ people, we spotted maybe three 2-sets of girls in the entire venue. The rest was comprised of big sets - either big mixed sets of guys and girls hanging out as friends, or big groups of 4+ girls, and a bunch of thirsty dudes on the prowl.

Clearly, this is a common enough phenomenon for an internet meme to have gone viral:

We wondered why there are so few 2-sets at bars and clubs nowadays, and attributed it to Facebook and online dating. Whereas single women in 5-10+ years ago went to "singles bars" actively looking to meet new men, today they're sitting at home in their PJs on Facebook and POF/OKC searching for Mr. Right/Mr. Right Now. Do "singles bars" even exist anymore?

So girls go out in big groups to "party", get attention/validation/free drinks for the night, go home and discreetly booty text their FWB/fuck buddy/ex BF, and get some good sex for the night. Why go home with a random creeper and look like a slut in front of all your friends when you've got dick on tap 24/7 via your smartphone?

This is even more true for smartphone-addicted college girls with vast social circles. And this is also why tourists, cougars and "new to the city" women are easier to pull - they don't have access to vast social circles with dick on tap.

All this leads to far fewer guys pulling from a pure cold approach today than in 2002. Not because guys today have shitty game, but because the number of single women at bars and clubs actually looking to hook up has gone way down. And all due to the explosion of social networking, online dating and smartphones in the past decade, giving girls constant attention, validation and access to an infinite supply of dick.

Thoughts? Particularly interested in hearing from the older 30+ American/Canadian cats if they've also witnessed this change over the years.

The hot ones tend not to come out anymore...they find other ways to meet men....If they show up....they may go to the VIP area of night club.....

The game has change where attractive women are migrating to new locations to find men.......

[Bronan the Barbarian!]

I just moved to Portland a few months ago and noticed that 90% of bars in this city are crammed full with tables and booths. Everybody sits down to talk to their friends and nobody interacts outside of their social group. I can't tell if it's because people here are generally weird/aloof or if the bad logistics contribute to the lack of interaction.

Same thing goes for what I've seen of Seattle. Sat in a packed Seattle bar last weekend and observed for 30 minutes. I didn't see anyone do a cold approach or interact with another social group.

[kosko]

I agree 100% I am still suck in the vortex but I have been "selling" on Bars like a stock for a long fuking time.

I was blessed to be able to club hop way before I was of age back before smoking bans, Facebook, and Smart phones and I can say I had more fun and had a easier time pulling ass at 16 in a club then I do now at 26. Because as you noted back then people went to the bar to party and hook up. they went to meet new people and shoot shit you did not have phony avenues to "meet" people like on line. Back in those days you had to show your face and strike real convos with people. In those days also the bar was all about volume, seats restricted how many people you could pack in the place to drink. Sitting down was discouraged, bars/clubs in the day were just big massive rooms with the lights down and booze flowing. Now all their revenue comes from up-charging on Bottle Service so seats are crammed into evrey nook and cranny.

In Toronto Clubs are so blatant with this they will stick a booth near the fuking bathroom. Now you can enjoy your Belvedere with the aroma of barf drafting in the background.

People pay top dollar to sit at booths and go on Facebook and Twitter all night. Female especially. Which lead to feeding the Fem-pack trend. The distractions of these social media platforms is the only way Females in groups can co-exist. Females fake their nights to create content to fill their social media platforms (pictures, status updates) which then leads them to comment on each others shit the next day... wash..rinse..repeat. So its all really just a ponzy scheme of Hamster-ism where the last action is dependent to create the next.

This huge group of females could only stand each other because of the distractions of Facebook/Twitter no way in hell you could combine Alcohol and such a large pack of women without a fight or drama ensuing. Unless its a wedding party a pack of girls larger then like 6 just can't compute in a natural environment.

Even when girls "pre - game" It can be a group of 8 or 40. It will be the same shit, factions of 3-4 girls conversing amongst them selves with every other girl trying as hard as they can to do something other then socialize with each-other. They will get ready, be on a laptop, make drink, make snacks, drink, dance, aka anything from A-Z other then socialize as a homogeneous group. Contrast this to dudes whom will all play cards, play beer pong ,or all just generally shoot shit while drinking and getting hyped for the night. Its like night and day.

Prior to the Social Media and Fem-pack trend you hardly ever saw groups of females larger then 3-4 out unless it was a special occasion.

The bar for the female has indeed turned into a free-night out where her kitty can get moist from a radiating blue screen and she can siphon off free booze from unassuming betas in booths.

But this will eventually backfire. As the trend becomes now to become more and more restrictive in groups and social sets when going out the bar will become useless. Already now friends will just go to a restaurant or lounge to pretend to socialize with each-other. Why pay for up-charged booze when you can drop the same amount of cash and at least get a decent meal out of it?

You see now bars are trying to integrate Social media into the bar experience (which is indeed smart). Having a video screen where you can tweet about your night at that bar and shit. That's a novel idea and I can't knock on that.. but you will soon see the opposite where bars realize people are chilling on the phones and not drinking... and its only a matter of time until a bar in NYC or something puts a Cell Jammer in their establishment to force people to socialize and drink.

Honestly the only time I can strike up random Convos at the bar are in these settings:

A. After last call when everybody is filing out onto the street

B. Smoking (I don't even smoke but more and more I see the value in it, bitches have the guard down 100%)

C. Any lounge/Dive with a picnic-table/long table set up. Picnic tables IMO are fucking gold as they are awkward as hell to get in and out of and you will have to brush/bump into somebody. I just realized that evreytime I have knocked into a girl beside me I have ended up talking to her and grabbing a #.

D. Niche Jams: Hitting up a monthly/bi-weekly party that is put on by X promoter. You see similar faces and its easy to bridge connections which lead to DHV. Pedestrian Clubs with Top-40/Electro/Hip-hop are just barren shells, where its hard to build any type of patterns or routines with out that practicability that comes from a monthly party.

I can only mess with Bars if its a venue where I can be a complete man-whore and Cavemen broads and dirty dance with them... I'll never grow out of that shit. Any other instance and I need a good set-up to work my game its way to hard for me to get anything in traditional bars.

[HiFlo]

Yes, it is more about these micro and macro social circles. You have to work any connection you have and always keep asking anyone you know casually to introduce you to their friends.

[Jeans]

I don't see this in NYC much, and I can think of a lot of factors peculiar to new york that contribute to this. I definitely saw this in DC, where I lived for a few months recently. I think as with anything else in the game, you have to adapt--in this case, it means identifying some kind of niche, going only to the bars that would interest that niche crowd, and ingratiating yourself with the men of that scene as much if not more than the women. If the city in your in is small enough--DC is pretty small--you'll begin recognizing the same faces week after week; if you can recognize the men who are doing well with women, it is not so difficult to strike up some kind of friendly conversation, shoot the shit, buy him a drink, that sort of thing. If you restrict yourself to 6 or 7 bars where you keep seeing the same rotating cast of 50-60 people, and you're recognized a couple of times as that "cool guy" who always up for a round of shots you can pretty quickly find yourself being invited to parties, introduced to people, etc....in other words establishing yourself as a man with sufficient social proof.

It's not the most efficient game in the world, but the upshot of girls being more reliant on social circle in smaller cities is that, once you are a member of said social circle, it can be stupefyingly easy to get laid. This seems to run very counter to what most people say here about DC, but I can think of two guys down there that got laid very consistently with objective 6s and 7s (DC 8s and 9s) with some of the least amount of game I've ever witnessed. They were above average in confidence to be sure, but were also very fucking boring, not necessarily in shape, very average in my opinion. All they really seemed to run on was a simple baseline of confidence and a lot of social proof (they never approached--I went out with one of the guys once and he was pretty bad at it). Oh, and one of those guys was a drug dealer--his women were consistently a point or 2 higher than the other guy. A fucking bore of a drug dealer though, and didn't at all carry the typical image of one.

[WesternCancer]

Kosko you nailed it. When I go out I go out to socialize. These girls and many guys go out so they can create their online identity. It's like they're putting off any form of social interaction unless it feeds a validation machine (facebook). Girls will take tons of pictures with friends, upload them then comment on them so EVERYONE can see them having fun. Because of this manufactured identity where only the best makes it online for everyone to see there is a huge disconnect. Everyone is trying to get more attention than the next person online and this manifests itself in incongruent real life personalities. Tell me the last time any of you added a chick on facebook or met a girl from online and said "wow she's exactly like her profile" it doesn't happen they are always different. I've been told by many online girls that they expected me to be different in person and like that the way I present myself on/offline are the same. Use that for your own gaming anyone, I promise it'll help.

[Shamrock]

yeah, I think girls in NYC missed the memo

[WestCoast]

(10-10-2012 07:26 PM)Shamrock Wrote:  

yeah, I think girls in NYC missed the memo

"Game is dead in the US"

Yes.

If you suck.

Bad.

[Gmac]

Bars have always been venues for friends to hang out. Who are you kidding?

Hate to break it to you but if you are at a place that has 100+ people, it's not a bar. Try a venue with 20-50.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

I don't know about you guys, but bars here in BR were always places to be with friends and get along around more than dating. It's more a place for relaxation, chat and the like. We have our stand up bars, which is a different thing. Anyway... My guess is that Real Life searching is dying everywhere, clubs, restaurants, day and night venue.

[Hotwheels]

(10-10-2012 08:59 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Bars have always been venues for friends to hang out. Who are you kidding?

Hate to break it to you but if you are at a place that has 100+ people, it's not a bar. Try a venue with 20-50.

And the place you speak of is my hunting grounds. Yes, things have changed slightly, but a bar still rewards game. Assuming targets are in the house.

Clubs have always sucked for me.

[Basil Ransom]

Agreed. Most of the bars I go to, I immediately get the feeling of 'girls just DON'T come here to fuck.' A few are different, and when I compare notes with forum members nearby, we're in agreement about which bars are best. Surprisingly, these bars don't necessarily have worse ratios than any other bar.

I've been saying for a while now, social circle trumps game, for most men. I saw it in college, and I see it now. I see guys all the time who are roughly similar in looks and vibe, but have wildly different results, and it's because of their social circle. Even if you're an 8, if all you're meeting is 6s via social circle, no 8 is going to drop from the sky in a divinely ordained matchup. I hang in some of the trendiest parts of town, and social circles are thicker than blood - how are you going to insta-date a girl when she has plans to hang with a house full of friends five blocks away in an hour? Why should she even risk hanging with a 'rando' when she already knows tons of cool guys? Don't bullshit yourself that you're way cooler than them, because you're not, unless she's not hot.

Plus, young women *and* men nowadays are just not that into hanging with someone of the opposite sex, one on one, they find it awkward. This presents obvious difficulties for the lone roving player.

[j r]

If you're picking up on anything, it's probably the result of delayed family formation. Women don't feel the same pressure to find a husband by their mid 20s, that they used to have.

Maybe there is less of a singles scene then there used to be, but there are still plenty I opportunities for a player. In fact, I would say that the average girl today lives a life that would have had her considered the town tramp 30 years ago.

[Marcellus]

This is EXACTLY the same what I observe in Europe. Girls go out to socialize with their social circles. If you approach a stranger as a guy you are just weird. If you go out alone you are weird.

There are no players anymore. The only ones who have success seems to be the HOT dudes who can drill a foreigner from time to time. Look at Krauser-pua. He only gets foreign chicks and he's lucky to live in London.

The only dudes that I know that have success have assimilated themselves in a social circle and become a key-figure in it. There are no girls that go out to get laid.

[HiFlo]

You know what, if you go visit these same bars over and over again 3x/wk for 1-2 months you're gonna be a regular, people will know you, then you can small talk..."oh you look familiar, I see you here all the time, tell me more about yourself..." Pretty easy way to break into social circle. The next step is up to you.

My biggest sticking point is although I'm recognized as a regular, I came on a bit too aggressive and perhaps weird during these learning stages, so I'm a regular, but I'm not quite the normal, cool regular and more the kinda weird guy regular. LOL!!! But people forget, I change, and the function of time and social proof determines all.

I've had some success integrating into mixed groups by saying, "Im new to town, just lookin to meet people." You gotta have your story straight tho if you're really NOT new to town, because you'll get bombarded with questions why'd you come here, what do you like about this place, etc and the more you can carry on this conversation the more likely you'll integrate into the social circle.

[Moma]

(10-10-2012 08:59 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Bars have always been venues for friends to hang out. Who are you kidding?

Hate to break it to you but if you are at a place that has 100+ people, it's not a bar. Try a venue with 20-50.

Yea but some places have turned the concept of clubs into bars, just a series of interconnected bars in one place.
I know what kosko is chatting about, you have all these lizards in a place, taking all these pictures so they can put them on Facebook to 'prove' that they are having fun.
It's all a bunch of friends together.

[Therapsid]

The problem I have with relying upon social game is that its just another form of heavy, long-term investment that we otherwise spurn in the case of dating chicks. Is it a ONS when a girl's been orbiting around in your social circle for the last few months? Not that same-night's are everything, but there's a unique sense of satisfaction from taking a girl you never met, fucking her, and then forgetting she ever existed with no consequences whatsoever.

I agree that only some bars are good for cold approaches. You want to find the sluttiest bars in your area and only go to those. I live in the suburbs and find that blue collar bars in towns with heavy drinking cultures tend to be the best for same night game. White trash community college dropouts are easier than over-educated chicks - no surprise there. In a college town with a slew of bars, maybe one will be good for taking girls home.

[Veloce]

Here's some recent input on social circle game:

First off, I hate it. I'm not the most social guy. I've never had an extended network of friends that I hang out with on a regular basis. I'm one of those guys that has a few close friends and that's it. I don't fake it and I can't hide my disdain for people if that's how I truly feel.

My newly divorced friend moved back from the east coast. This guy is a nut job, a really funny, social, animated guy. He has a HUGE social circle, not because he tries to but because he's a genuinely lovable guy. I've met a lot of people through him and everyone that's around him loves him. He's always down to party, always saying funny shit, lives for the moment, total I-don't-give-a-fuck vibe. I'm sure most people know at least one person like this. A real free spirit.

He's staying with this chick he used to fuck a back in the day. We all hung out and went to a bar, halfway through hanging he comes up to me and tells me the girl he's staying with wants to fuck me. I was being flirty with her all night but nothing crazy.

In retrospect, I put in almost zero effort. The fact that I'm friends with this guy was qualifying enough. It was like the little game that I was throwing was magnified x 10

I guess my point is, you don't have to BE that guy, though it would be awesome if you are. But I'd highly suggest having a guy like that in your social circle. They just might do the work for you.

[void]

this makes venue-selection even more important nowadays, i have said it multiple times.
look for venues with NO/VERY FEW tables, but some comfortable possibilities to sit down, maybe little dance floor and a bar. the dynamic setting will force conversations.
position your home close to these venues for optimized logistics.

[Therapsid]

(10-11-2012 01:56 PM)void Wrote:  

this makes venue-selection even more important nowadays, i have said it multiple times.
look for venues with NO/VERY FEW tables, but some comfortable possibilities to sit down, maybe little dance floor and a bar. the dynamic setting will force conversations.
position your home close to these venues for optimized logistics.

I find narrow bars the best. It's okay if there are tables if they're pushed up close to the bar. It's easier to make low-investment approaches. Venues that are too spread out, where tables are set back many feet from the bar and from each other suck. Often times this second kind of venues have circle bars. I prefer the dark, claustrophobic linear bar to the vast expansive circle bar. Roosh talks about the value of standing in squeeze points. It follows that bars with more squeeze points, where you're necessarily put in proximity to girls, are better - as long as they're not too crowded.

[solo]

(10-11-2012 12:37 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Here's some recent input on social circle game:

First off, I hate it. I'm not the most social guy. I've never had an extended network of friends that I hang out with on a regular basis. I'm one of those guys that has a few close friends and that's it. I don't fake it and I can't hide my disdain for people if that's how I truly feel.

My newly divorced friend moved back from the east coast. This guy is a nut job, a really funny, social, animated guy. He has a HUGE social circle, not because he tries to but because he's a genuinely lovable guy. I've met a lot of people through him and everyone that's around him loves him. He's always down to party, always saying funny shit, lives for the moment, total I-don't-give-a-fuck vibe. I'm sure most people know at least one person like this. A real free spirit.

He's staying with this chick he used to fuck a back in the day. We all hung out and went to a bar, halfway through hanging he comes up to me and tells me the girl he's staying with wants to fuck me. I was being flirty with her all night but nothing crazy.

In retrospect, I put in almost zero effort. The fact that I'm friends with this guy was qualifying enough. It was like the little game that I was throwing was magnified x 10

I guess my point is, you don't have to BE that guy, though it would be awesome if you are. But I'd highly suggest having a guy like that in your social circle. They just might do the work for you.

Interesting. I also hate social circles. I don't have patience for it and as you imply it's fake and is the way of the beta. But when I think about it, I probably have gotten some at least some girls through what you could call social circle in the past. It's not efficient enough for it to be your only strategy though. Especially if your social circle has few hot girls, like mine has. I would say, play social circle game but don't stop cold approaching.
The past 6 months or so I've had virtually zero social circle and I have also gotten nada for free. So in the future I should think about trying to get into a social circle when I am in a place long enough. You got to maximise your opportunities on all fronts. Logistics (both apartment and location/venue) is also something which has been pretty bad recently.

[WesternCancer]

I think the best social circle game is amassing a large female heavy social circle while you are exclusive with a hot girl. Bring the hot girl out to a few outings and make sure the other girls know you're taken. After that don't bring the girl and flirt (with plausible deniability) with the female members of the social group. Every once and a while bring your girl, the other girls will get jealous and hit on you, your girl will get jealous and fuck you good. Once things are primed and ready with the social circle girls dump your main chick and let it be known over facebook. Have tons of parties and club nights lined up with your social circle girls (just before you break up) go out and reap the benefits. Also capitalize on "oh thats so sad she broke up with you" unsolicited texts. Plow through as many as you can in a month or two before they all start catching on and stop inviting you out unless they're super horny. Worked for me before I was even game aware, banged at least 6 girls in a month or two that way all who I'd known for months beforehand. They all used their to rationalize that they weren't a rebound (in this case planned fuck) and you dumped your girl to be with her because you have such great chemistry.