[gandt]

(02-23-2012 05:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Just did one a few days ago...

The weather has been better lately and when that happens I get excited for day gaming. I hadn't been very active over the winter because I've been working alot. Now that winter is ending, I am also working much less, I have been wanting to get back to my roots which is aggressive and direct street gaming. After reading Roosh's stuff for a few years I sort of got into a more indirect style. Well, I decided that I don't like indirect as much. It works great but I just don't enjoy it as much.

I like to blows girls minds and push the limits. I don't want to be like every other guy that she talks to. I want to approach her like she's never been approached before.

The Day Time AO is a great exercise. It takes a certain amount of confidence and balls just to go up to a girl and say it. Just to stand there with a straight face and alpha body language is an exercise in itself. You could get slapped, she might complain to the police or security, she might try to have someone beat you up, she could have a boyfriend or family members near by that you don't know about.

Its a bit of a risk and you are really putting yourself out there. Maybe that's why I love it. It's exciting.

Anyways, I was working one of my usual college campuses and I was looking for a good opportunity to approach with the Day time AO. I like for the girl to be by herself for this.

(However, I am going to take this the next level and do some Day Time Threesome Apocalypse Openers!!!)

I saw a cutie sitting by herself at the bus stop looking in her mirror and playing with her eyebrows. I walk up, sit down next to her and open immediately...

me: is this the bus stop or the beauty shop?
her: ha both
me: you got a date or something?
her: no just checking my lashes
me: i think they look ok
her: thanks
me: what are you doing right now? going home?
her: ya
me: wanna take me home and use me as your teddy bear?

She turned and looked at me.

her: whaaat?!
me: ya lets hang out.
her: ha i don't swing like that.
me: ha you said "swing".
her: thats what it is right?
me: i don't know, i guess. doesn't that sound like fun though?
her: not today, but next time you see me, umm...
me: I'll holler at you.
her: k bye
me: bye


This was the 5th or 6th time that I have seriously tried a the DTAO. I never know what to expect. To be honest,I have been surprised how positive the girls responses have been. I think a few of the girls considered saying yes. One of them was totally disgusted with me. I have the conversations for those approaches earlier in this thread.

For the record, I'm 0-6 with this approach but I'm working on it aggressively.

Imo, Your frame, vibe, body language and looks are key. Well, I guess everything is key. And, you have to choose your target carefully. Look for girls that have a rebellious streak in them. Girls that crave something different. Girls that look like they are curious about the wild side of life. Sexy girls and girls showing skin would be good targets too. If they are craving sexual attention, well, give it to them in a strong, smooth way

I think if you do it right their p*ssy should start to get a little moist and their little hamster should start spinning.

I will be reporting back to this thread very soon. Wish me luck..

Gio, what is the reason for doing these AOs? I really don't understand the point of them. I am willing to bet if you put in 2-3 minutes of extra time with those girls and then offered them to come to your pad to "hang out" and smoke a J you would have closed at least one of them. Perhaps I'm missing something?

[Ovid]

True abundance mentality. Girls are everywhere so why not have a bit of fun and push the limits? Nothing gives you a surge of confidence like asking a girl straight up if she wants to come home with you and not getting instantly blown out. I've only done it a couple of times, but man, what a rush.

That said, I think the only way the AO would actually work would be if you met a freak at just the right moment and she accepted, or if you were able to "de-escalate" after the initial ballsy pussy-wetting opener, to build enough comfort and show her some DHVs. Unfortunately, this isn't easy because the AO is kind of sink-or-swim. There's no build-up so it's hard to revert to normal game when you opened so overtly sexual. (Or maybe I'm just not experienced enough with the nuances of direct day game, since I usually go indirect.)

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

What if you ask her to come with you for a drink right after the AO? If she seems interested, you can just say something like "yeah, we can go grab a drink up the street first. "

The AO should generate immediate attraction. Maybe grabbing a drink and talking for 20 min is all the comfort you need to close the deal.

[gandt]

If someone is doing this for pure fun and game then sure, why not?... But if they are actually doing this with the expectation of any sort of favourable outcome I would color them insane

Bottom line is that no girl wants to feel like a slut when she goes home with you and this approach automatically implies that you have 0 interested in who they are as a person and are looking to use them.

[Giovonny]

(03-13-2013 08:44 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Gio, what is the reason for doing these AOs?

1) Social Experimentation.
2) Seductive Experimentation.
3) A Test of Confidence
4) A Test of Inner Game
5) A Test of Game Skill
6) A Challenge to the Limits of Reality.
7) A Challenge to What is Possible
8) An Exercise in Masculinity
9) An Exercise in Fearlessness
10) An Exercise in the Unknown -- with the expectation that our previous paradigm will be shifted and we will emerge with a new view of what's possible in the world.

And, it's great fun. Try it. It will blow your mind. You will learn alot about yourself and the nature of male-female dynamics. You will become more confident and fearless INSTANTLY.

Go back and read thru this thread. I got a positive reaction from most girls.

(03-13-2013 11:26 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Bottom line is that no girl wants to feel like a slut when she goes home with you

I disagree. I think girls want to feel like a slut. They are just waiting for the right situation to let that inner-slut out. I try to provide a safe and supportive environment for them to do this.

(03-13-2013 11:26 AM)gandt Wrote:  

this approach automatically implies that you have 0 interested in who they are as a person and are looking to use them.

Disagree again. Many girls want to be used sexually. They wanted to be treated as a sex object. They are tired of beta kissing their ass all the time.

The Daytime AO is not so much about getting laid. (That would take a bit of luck)

The Daytime AO is about doing things that most men would never do, because they don't have big enough balls.

When you experience what few men ever have, you gain a confidence that few men will ever know.

[gandt]

(03-13-2013 02:36 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(03-13-2013 08:44 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Gio, what is the reason for doing these AOs?

1) Social Experimentation.
2) Seductive Experimentation.
3) A Test of Confidence
4) A Test of Inner Game
5) A Test of Game Skill
6) A Challenge to the Limits of Reality.
7) A Challenge to What is Possible
8) An Exercise in Masculinity
9) An Exercise in Fearlessness
10) An Exercise in the Unknown -- with the expectation that our previous paradigm will be shifted and we will emerge with a new view of what's possible in the world.

And, it's great fun. Try it. It will blow your mind. You will learn alot about yourself and the nature of male-female dynamics. You will become more confident and fearless INSTANTLY.

Go back and read thru this thread. I got a positive reaction from most girls.

(03-13-2013 11:26 AM)gandt Wrote:  

Bottom line is that no girl wants to feel like a slut when she goes home with you

I disagree. I think girls want to feel like a slut. They are just waiting for the right situation to let that inner-slut out. I try to provide a safe and supportive environment for them to do this.

(03-13-2013 11:26 AM)gandt Wrote:  

this approach automatically implies that you have 0 interested in who they are as a person and are looking to use them.

Disagree again. Many girls want to be used sexually. They wanted to be treated as a sex object. They are tired of beta kissing their ass all the time.

The Daytime AO is not so much about getting laid. (That would take a bit of luck)

The Daytime AO is about doing things that most men would never do, because they don't have big enough balls.

When you experience what few men ever have, you gain a confidence that few men will ever know.

Agree with all the reasons you listed for doing it. Your directness and cutting through the bullshit in your approaches is one of the reasons you are one of my favourite posters on this forum.

As for your points about "feeling like a slut" and her "feeling used", I think we are saying the same thing but are misunderstanding one another a little bit.

I completely agree with all girls wanting to let their inner-slut out but what I am trying to say is that girls do not want to be labelled as sluts.

My opinion is that girls will do ANYTHING they can get away with. So providing a safe environment for them to do this in is a good job on your part.

That being said I do not think that most girls want to FEEL like a slut in the sense that they wont want to go home with a guy who asks them to fuck without taking a genuine interest in who they are or with a guy who does not provide them with the reassurance that your not going to chuck em in the garbage when your done blowing your load in them. Sure, there are always exceptions (I too have had my fair share of girls whose name I didn't even know).

But what I am getting at is that are a few key elements to allowing a girl to let her inner slut out while not being labelled as a slut and made to feel "dirty" about herself. Girls are taught from a young age "what daddy doesn't know won't hurt him" and this mentality very much carries over into their paranoia about them being labelled as sluts.

Here are a few things that you may already know but other may find useful in creating a safe environment:

-Communicating your non-judgemental acceptance of her behaviour (in the sense that you are not going to treat her any differently based on her sexual choices and that it's completely natural for women to want to be sluts)

-Communicating security (in the sense that you will neither kick her to the curb when you are done OR beg to be her boyfriend). This is a HUGE one because most girls who go home with a guy shortly after meeting him USUALLY experience 1 of 2 scenarios:
THE FIRST is the guy thinks she's trash for going home with him and never talks to her again. This is where the feeling of being used comes into play.
THE SECOND is the guy thinks he is automatically entitled to be her boyfriend because he cant understand the concept that women like CASUAL sex just as much as men.

So if you can communicate both those elements then you come from a real position of power in my opinion.

Does that clarify anything Gio or do you still disagree with some things?

And my apologies for the derailing.

[gandt]

Also, please don't misread the above post and think that I am advising on not being upfront with your sexual intentions. I am suggestion to do so in a way that allows the girl to feel comfortable moving forward with you.

I think being sexually forward is an incredibly important element and it makes up a huge part of my game. Although I have recently had to scale this back due to the sensitive culture in the country which I am living in currently.

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

Tried the AO last night. Here's what I posted on another thread.

I finally tried the Apocalypse Opener. I noticed a couple of cute brown chicks (probably Indian) near the bar downstairs. When one of them went to grab a drink, I approached the other.

Me: Hi, how are you?
Her: Good.
Me: You have any special plans after this?
Her: No, {something I couldn't hear because of the music}
Me: Do you want to come back to my hotel with me?
Her: No, thank you, I'm ok. [she was taken aback a bit, but not nearly as much as I expected she'd be]
Me: Ok, have a good night.

I was definitely expecting a stronger reaction. I was also surprised that my adrenaline didn't really shoot up. I felt completely comfortable going up and using the AO in this environment. Out on the street, my physical rejection may be different but last night I held my frame very well.

[NoBalls]

I used to use the Apocalypse opener and never got laid from it. Most of the time the girl politely declined or thanked me for the offer. Occasionally the girl would look shocked but continue talking to me. Most of the time the reactions were not bad.

I stopped using the Apocalypse opener because there were two times where the girl I approached got genuinely angry at me. This kind of bothered me so I stopped using this opener. Interestingly the times when the girl got angry at me she was not good looking at all.

I've only used this opener during night game.

[Giovonny]

(03-13-2013 05:25 PM)gandt Wrote:  

Here are a few things that you may already know but other may find useful in creating a safe environment:

-Communicating your non-judgemental acceptance of her behaviour (in the sense that you are not going to treat her any differently based on her sexual choices and that it's completely natural for women to want to be sluts)

-Communicating security (in the sense that you will neither kick her to the curb when you are done OR beg to be her boyfriend). This is a HUGE one because most girls who go home with a guy shortly after meeting him USUALLY experience 1 of 2 scenarios:
THE FIRST is the guy thinks she's trash for going home with him and never talks to her again. This is where the feeling of being used comes into play.
THE SECOND is the guy thinks he is automatically entitled to be her boyfriend because he cant understand the concept that women like CASUAL sex just as much as men.

So if you can communicate both those elements then you come from a real position of power in my opinion.

Those are good points. Well said by you. I have learned to address both of these issues.

(03-13-2013 05:25 PM)gandt Wrote:  

Does that clarify anything Gio or do you still disagree with some things?

I think we are in agreement. It doesn't matter. I like when guys disagree with me. It forces me to think deeper about the issue.

You might disagree with this: I think there are girls that want to be sluts.

Like you said, its about providing them a comfortable, supportive, non judgmental environment. I like for girls to feel like its okay to release their inner slut when they are around me.

Again, THE DAY TIME APOCALYPSE OPENER IS MORE ABOUT BUILDING FEARLESSNESS THEN GETTING LAID!

ALL GUYS SHOULD TRY IT!

[ozzyyooo]

(03-14-2013 06:55 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  

Tried the AO last night. Here's what I posted on another thread.

I finally tried the Apocalypse Opener. I noticed a couple of cute brown chicks (probably Indian) near the bar downstairs. When one of them went to grab a drink, I approached the other.

Me: Hi, how are you?
Her: Good.
Me: You have any special plans after this?
Her: No, {something I couldn't hear because of the music}
Me: Do you want to come back to my hotel with me?
Her: No, thank you, I'm ok. [she was taken aback a bit, but not nearly as much as I expected she'd be]
Me: Ok, have a good night.

I was definitely expecting a stronger reaction. I was also surprised that my adrenaline didn't really shoot up. I felt completely comfortable going up and using the AO in this environment. Out on the street, my physical rejection may be different but last night I held my frame very well.

Wait, I thought the point of AO was to continue the conversation as if her rejection didn't phase you. If it seemed like she was only a little disturbed wouldn't you want to build attraction because I thought that no matter the response you're supposed to continue with the convo and bring up something else. Am I missing something?

[King Solomon]

I'm going to try this, but I want to throw a few things out there-

wouldn't it make sense to ask her to come home with you, allowing the obvious implication, but not clarifying it? This way, you could use humor to either deflect hostility or add humor: "yeah, I need a new housekeeper" you could also add in something about a french maid outfit

or you could deflect after the AO and say "well, then, let's get coffee" because in light of what you just asked, coffee isn't asking much, and if she hasn't blown you out after an AO this would offer a segue into an instadate. If she resists:

"Come on, I'll be the sickest guy you ever had coffee with and you can post that shit on facebook. It will be funnier if I weasel you into a cup of coffee and we get a picture together. Makes for a great story"

oh, how those girls love to have a story to tell.

[Virtus]

with ao you arent trying to be an rsd dancing entertainer monkey. you are doing it from mode one / 60daysofchallenge view. thing is round 14 % of girls are dtf. thats 1 in 6. just make sure its you. as in that "read a book brush your teeth nigga" video. and if you try to play it off she will have a story about some uncalibrated clown

[King Solomon]

Well I understand the dancing monkey problem. It sounds like you are saying that if I try to convert otherwise when the AO doesn't turn into sex, I'm a clown. Fair enough.

Since I haven't tried it, I cannot refute. However, my thinking is that if I have walked up to a girl and my AO didn't get me sex, but I got some other IOI (she didn't flee) then I might just see if I can convert some other way. After all, I approached her, and she is interested because she didn't bail. Why not stick around, if she does, and see what's up?

I don't mean to say that I would reveal my request for instant sex as non-genuine, just that I am also game for other shit, or at least willing to expand on my presentation by spitting additional game or otherwise introducing myself.

ehh, maybe you're right.

anyway, I'll keep an eye on this thread, see how other guys are doing with it for now.

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

This is Quality! Imma try this out soon.

[Virtus]

(03-20-2013 03:03 PM)King Solomon Wrote:  

Well I understand the dancing monkey problem. It sounds like you are saying that if I try to convert otherwise when the AO doesn't turn into sex, I'm a clown. Fair enough.

Since I haven't tried it, I cannot refute. However, my thinking is that if I have walked up to a girl and my AO didn't get me sex, but I got some other IOI (she didn't flee) then I might just see if I can convert some other way. After all, I approached her, and she is interested because she didn't bail. Why not stick around, if she does, and see what's up?

I don't mean to say that I would reveal my request for instant sex as non-genuine, just that I am also game for other shit, or at least willing to expand on my presentation by spitting additional game or otherwise introducing myself.

ehh, maybe you're right.

anyway, I'll keep an eye on this thread, see how other guys are doing with it for now.

Stick around yes. Even do something "normal" like offering to buy a drink. Just keep the tension there. She knows you just offered dick. so anything she does after, if she stays there, demonstrates her willingness and curiosity. Basically no need to do pua attraction shit if you "showed up"

[Days of Broken Arrows]

If you're going to pull this, you need a backstory. And the backstory should be one of three things

1). I'm going for surgery in a few weeks and want to sleep with the hottest woman I've seen since I might not make it

2). I'm going into the Armed Forces (see above)

3). I'm getting married...

I've heard about all three working, although I've never attempted this. Actually, I sort of attempted #3. When a female friend told me a guy used this line on her -- and it worked -- I said "What if I used that line?" She raised her eyebrows. Being the nice, sensitive guy I was, I didn't take her up on it.

Addendum: if you can't get a bang, ask if you can "settle" by at least checking out her boobs or something. Sometimes women get turned on by their own exhibitionism and you can parlay that into a BJ or a HJ. In other words, if you can't hit the moon, ask for the stars. You never know. In fact, after asking to screw a stranger, "settling" for a handjob might makes sense in some weird way to the girl you're talking to (i.e. "At least I didn't screw him!").

[MrXY]

I can think of other sympathetic stories: you are leaving the country and she's the last American woman you may see for years (I know, but she'll think that's bad thing), you're going to work in the remote oil fields and won't see a woman for 6 months, your Dad just died and you're feeling down and need some comfort, your divorce was just finalized that day and you're in emotional turmoil and need to reach out to someone.

If she finds you attractive, if you can give her some emotional reason to rationalize sleeping with you, that may be enough to push her over the line into doing it even if she is somewhat skeptical of your story. Worth an experiment

[Walderschmidt]

(03-25-2013 02:36 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

If you're going to pull this, you need a backstory. And the backstory should be one of three things

1). I'm going for surgery in a few weeks and want to sleep with the hottest woman I've seen since I might not make it

2). I'm going into the Armed Forces (see above)

3). I'm getting married...

I've heard about all three working, although I've never attempted this. Actually, I sort of attempted #3. When a female friend told me a guy used this line on her -- and it worked -- I said "What if I used that line?" She raised her eyebrows. Being the nice, sensitive guy I was, I didn't take her up on it.

Addendum: if you can't get a bang, ask if you can "settle" by at least checking out her boobs or something. Sometimes women get turned on by their own exhibitionism and you can parlay that into a BJ or a HJ. In other words, if you can't hit the moon, ask for the stars. You never know. In fact, after asking to screw a stranger, "settling" for a handjob might makes sense in some weird way to the girl you're talking to (i.e. "At least I didn't screw him!").

Aaaand there's my line. Tit's for troops anyone?

Good reasoning too.

[germanico]

(03-25-2013 02:36 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

If you're going to pull this, you need a backstory. And the backstory should be one of three things

1). I'm going for surgery in a few weeks and want to sleep with the hottest woman I've seen since I might not make it

2). I'm going into the Armed Forces (see above)

3). I'm getting married...

Bollocks, the "backstory" is that you are a balls-out guy that has no fear of stating his desires and has no hold ups about sex or giving her the option of sex straight up.

What the point of "apocalypse opening" then if you are going to soften it with a "just kidding"?

[Walderschmidt]

Also a good point.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

First, I never said to say "just kidding." I said to give his approach some context to bring some emotional heft to it. Since he didn't succeed with this and since that oft-quoted "college campus study" showed that women don't go for such approaches, I'm trying to hone it to make it work.

Since this is the game forum, my post was less about the integrity of his approach and more about "OK, well what *would* work?" And if plan A doesn't work at first, can you then bargain it down to Plan B and get a BJ or HJ?

I don't see the latter as unrealistic. It's like asking someone for $100 and when they won't give it to you, "settling" for $10. But if you asked them for $10 to begin with, they'd probably say no. The psychology of bargaining.

(03-25-2013 03:56 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(03-25-2013 02:36 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

If you're going to pull this, you need a backstory. And the backstory should be one of three things

1). I'm going for surgery in a few weeks and want to sleep with the hottest woman I've seen since I might not make it

2). I'm going into the Armed Forces (see above)

3). I'm getting married...

Bollocks, the "backstory" is that you are a balls-out guy that has no fear of stating his desires and has no hold ups about sex or giving her the option of sex straight up.

What the point of "apocalypse opening" then if you are going to soften it with a "just kidding"?

[germanico]

(03-25-2013 04:34 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I don't see the latter as unrealistic. It's like asking someone for $100 and when they won't give it to you, "settling" for $10. But if you asked them for $10 to begin with, they'd probably say no. The psychology of bargaining.

This is where you fail. With "apocalypse opening" you are not asking for $100.

YOU are the one offering her $100. You are the one straight up offering her wild, passionate sex with no consequences.

Bargaining for sex? thats what her husband does, trading in flowers and weeks of house chores and letting her out on a "girls night out" with her slutty friends.

[Stun]

(03-13-2013 02:36 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

The Daytime AO is about doing things that most men would never do, because they don't have big enough balls.

When you experience what few men ever have, you gain a confidence that few men will ever know.

This is beyond true. Too many guys are thinking about this as a zero sum game that you win or lose. When in fact, the point of doing it is more about your development than it is about pulling. If you do pull, so much the better, and it's even more of a learning experience. Gio, you sir, have game.

[swshrsweet]

(03-13-2013 05:25 PM)gandt Wrote:  

-Communicating security (in the sense that you will neither kick her to the curb when you are done OR beg to be her boyfriend). This is a HUGE one because most girls who go home with a guy shortly after meeting him USUALLY experience 1 of 2 scenarios:
THE FIRST is the guy thinks she's trash for going home with him and never talks to her again. This is where the feeling of being used comes into play.
THE SECOND is the guy thinks he is automatically entitled to be her boyfriend because he cant understand the concept that women like CASUAL sex just as much as men.

So if you can communicate both those elements then you come from a real position of power in my opinion.

What if you go in with your AO and then afterwards ask the girl to go out for lunch/dinner (depending on the time of your day gaming)

ie: Do you want to come back to my house? After, we can go get something to drink/eat.