[Celtic]

Roosh made this post on his blog: http://www.rooshv.com/sex-tourists-vs-love-tourists pointing out the difference between what we do and what the sex tourists do. It really stuck a nerve, you can see in the comments how traumitized and furious the sex tourists got.

It's kind of amazing just how upset they got. Of all the things to wrap your identity in, they define themselves by paying for sex. But that's something which requires no skill and effort. A proud sex tourist makes as much sense as a proud masturbation-only person.

The thing is Roosh didn't say that what the sex tourists did is wrong or immoral, but that's not on the level of what we're doing. Gaming a girl in another country requires game, it requires some understanding of the local culture, it usually requires you to know some of the local language, it requires to get your logistics right. Gaming a girl in another country requires getting a lot of different things right and doing them well- paying doesn't require anything.

[Katatonic]

Haha, I love that the only thing they really have in common is their hatred of American women.

[Samseau]

Gaming a girl takes skill. That's basically the bottom line.

[Timoteo]

Actually, the P4Per's tried to make the argument that GAME is immoral, because we lie about how long we're going to be in town, take on a fake persona, etc. One of them even tried to say whoremongers contributed more to the local economy! I give him points for trying on that one...HA HA! But you're right - Roosh never said paying for it about morality - he just said it was weak and lazy.

[Celtic]

You know, I really enjoy eating gourmet food. I like the really good, high quality stuff, the kind you can get a nice restaurant. But, I can't cook myself, so for the really good stuff I either buy it at a restaurant or a friend makes it for me. However:

- I freely acknowledge that those who can cook gourmet meals have an admirable skill that I don't have.
- I don't base my identity on buying food at restaurants, I base it on things that I am actually good at.
- I wouldn't go on to a master chef's blog and complain about a post about the virtues of being able to cook your own gourmet food. And I certainly wouldn't try to say it was stupid to cook your own food when you could have just as easily bought it yourself. No, that'd be can kind of dickhead move that would get your ass kicked in real life.

But that's what these P4Pers are doing with the game blogs and that's really weird.

[Sparks123]

If we take the term literally, a sex tourist is someone who goes to the country with the intent to have sex. The problem is that term has become associated with fat losers who go to Cambodia to have sex with eight-year olds, so another term had to be invented for guys who want to have sex with regular girls.

[TheBulldozer]

What's sad is that hitting on a girl is enormously fun. The genuine attempt to attract a girl releases endorphins and testosterone that nothing else can. The mystery of showing up in a foreign land and figuring out the way to behave only adds to the fun.

I get the feeling that to many of us, it's not the sex, well to an extent it is, but it's the enjoyment of interacting with women that really pushes us. I know it does for me.

Interacting with a beautiful, intelligent, and feminine woman is perhaps one of life's greatest joys. It's sad that many men don't get this opportunity once in their lives.

There is nothing fun in interacting with a whore from a cognitive perspective.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I didn't get the sense that there was a great conflict going on. The comments are fairly mild and well-reasoned. I wouldn't disparage either "side", although of course I prefer game to just brute payment.

I thought that this comment was relevant though:

Quote:

"I get the impression that many gamers enjoy impressing their online friends by reporting on their accomplishments more than they do the actual sex.”

I don't mean anyone in particular, of course, but from observing any online community of this kind, I have to admit that it is very easy to get such an impression.

[Sargon of Akkad]

(09-17-2012 11:48 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's sad is that hitting on a girl is enormously fun. The genuine attempt to attract a girl releases endorphins and testosterone that nothing else can. The mystery of showing up in a foreign land and figuring out the way to behave only adds to the fun.

I get the feeling that to many of us, it's not the sex, well to an extent it is, but it's the enjoyment of interacting with women that really pushes us. I know it does for me.

Interacting with a beautiful, intelligent, and feminine woman is perhaps one of life's greatest joys. It's sad that many men don't get this opportunity once in their lives.

There is nothing fun in interacting with a whore from a cognitive perspective.

This.

I often liken game to a sports competition like the World Cup. I only really enjoy the prize when I've actually earned it. If I pay the opposing team to let me win on purpose, where's the fun?

The adrenaline rush you get from going up to a hot girl, may very well just reject you, and the feeling of hard work paying off when you finally hit it. These things can't really be replicated with whoring.

[Partizan]

(09-18-2012 12:50 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

(09-17-2012 11:48 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's sad is that hitting on a girl is enormously fun. The genuine attempt to attract a girl releases endorphins and testosterone that nothing else can. The mystery of showing up in a foreign land and figuring out the way to behave only adds to the fun.

I get the feeling that to many of us, it's not the sex, well to an extent it is, but it's the enjoyment of interacting with women that really pushes us. I know it does for me.

Interacting with a beautiful, intelligent, and feminine woman is perhaps one of life's greatest joys. It's sad that many men don't get this opportunity once in their lives.

There is nothing fun in interacting with a whore from a cognitive perspective.

This.

I often liken game to a sports competition like the World Cup. I only really enjoy the prize when I've actually earned it. If I pay the opposing team to let me win on purpose, where's the fun?

The adrenaline rush you get from going up to a hot girl, may very well just reject you, and the feeling of hard work paying off when you finally hit it. These things can't really be replicated with whoring.

Yep.

I think Lemmy summed it up perfectly here.

[Zak]

Why such extreme animosity towards the pay for pay sex tourists? They are doing their thing and PUA's are doing theirs. If you want to split hairs, then everyone who travels abroad looking for sex is a "sex tourist" and that includes, PUA's, the hordes of Western women who keep the Jamaican, Gambian and Turk tourist industries afloat (amongst others), the young Northern European women who flock to Greece, Spain etc with the specific intention of having sex with local men and other tourists, the millions of men from the Muslim world who flock to the West seeking to have sex with non-Muslim women, etc. etc. Trust me, there's a lot of "sex tourists" out there who currently escape wider definition as such.

[IainMuirs]

(09-18-2012 01:43 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I didn't get the sense that there was a great conflict going on. The comments are fairly mild and well-reasoned. I wouldn't disparage either "side", although of course I prefer game to just brute payment.

I thought that this comment was relevant though:

Quote:

"I get the impression that many gamers enjoy impressing their online friends by reporting on their accomplishments more than they do the actual sex.”

I don't mean anyone in particular, of course, but from observing any online community of this kind, I have to admit that it is very easy to get such an impression.

If you go visit some of the sex tourist forums, the one someone mentioned on here recently being good for getting data (I forget the name), they do 'trip reports' too where they talk about all the whores they have fucked. So why do they report back on it?

[Neo]

I don't get guys who travel just to bang hookers. There can't be any thrill in it. Maybe I'll reach an age or be in a situation where I'll change by mind, but I doubt it.

There's no better feeling in the world then accomplishing something with hard work. All those rejections and screw ups become worth it when you hook up with a hot girl. Without making those mistakes and gaining that experience you wouldn't be having sex with her to begin with.

As a man, I don't see any other way to live life. Just keep going and working for it until you make it.

In the game, consider me a lifer.

[jimukr104]

UMM..Do not flame me but technically from womens point of view traveling to different countries to get a flag is SEX TOURISM. i mean you are traveling to see the sights and find sex. Yes we pay less if we use game but the point is the same. Pay for play or gaming is both technically sex tourism if finding and banging girls motivation. Its an ego boos to think differently.

[ExpatChronicles]

(09-17-2012 11:26 PM)Sparks123 Wrote:  

If we take the term literally, a sex tourist is someone who goes to the country with the intent to have sex.

The problem is that they were dubbed 'sex tourists' to begin with. They should've been called 'prostitution tourists' or, as they call themselves, 'whoremongers'.

[Tbone]

delete

[Tbone]

It all depends on the situation. In Colombia I met an older American in his 50s. He's not attractive at all and has a beer gut. Who is he gonna game?

But he makes good money. He spends a portion of it to bang girls that he normally wouldn't even get close to.

He doesn't speak Spanish but he wanted some ass. So one night we found a website with Colombian hoes. I called and "ordered" a hoe for him.

The faces were covered up on the site. We only saw bodies. But when she showed up, we were shocked at how beautiful this girl was. He would NEVER fuck a girl like that without paying for it.

Anyway, he seems perfectly happy with his lifestyle. More power to him.

I'm sure many of the mongers are in his predicament.

[w00t]

If you make alot of money its more economical to pay for pussy.
If you dont have much money but alot of free time, then its more economical to chase it.

I dont think one of it is better or worse or superior/inferior. In the west we are brainwashed into thinking prostitution is bad but in other parts of the world the concept of free love doesnt even exist. So its all a matter of perspective.

All i know is when im old and fat I will happily pay 20 year old cuties for access to their poosies. PPL make fun of the cliche of teh old fat whore monger but I think these guys are pretty smart.

Whats kinda funny to me though is we spend ALOT of time on learning the skills and then some ppl take pride in not paying. But what they dont realize is they invest so much time and since time = money they still pay.

[Sargon of Akkad]

(09-18-2012 09:07 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

UMM..Do not flame me but technically from womens point of view traveling to different countries to get a flag is SEX TOURISM. i mean you are traveling to see the sights and find sex. Yes we pay less if we use game but the point is the same. Pay for play or gaming is both technically sex tourism if finding and banging girls motivation. Its an ego boos to think differently.

The difference is the stigma that is attached to the term. When you mention the word "Sex tourist" to most people, the first thing that comes to mind is some balding fatass going to Thailand or Romania to have sex with traffickeed 12 year old sex slaves whose wrists are chained to their bedposts.

This is due to the kind of hype that the media loves to create. To the average person "sex tourist = paedophile / slavemonger", because, as everyone knows, all prostitutes are (underage) slaves.

Telling people you travel to Southeast Asia, China, or Eastern Europe to date or have short affairs with exotic and attractive women (in part because you find women at home less attractive) may raise some eyebrows, but you won't conjure up the same images of paedophilia and human trafficking that you will by saying "I'm going to the Philippines to fuck prostitutes."

Even without it's associations with slavery and child molestation, paying for sex in the West will still have the word "loser" attached to it, because it's assumed you're paying for it because you can't get it any other way.

Personally, I don't care if someone pays for sex with a consenting adult, but I'd still prefer not to have all that kind of baggage attached to me for dating women the old fashioned way.

[The Fantasist]

(09-17-2012 11:48 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's sad is that hitting on a girl is enormously fun. The genuine attempt to attract a girl releases endorphins and testosterone that nothing else can. The mystery of showing up in a foreign land and figuring out the way to behave only adds to the fun.

I get the feeling that to many of us, it's not the sex, well to an extent it is, but it's the enjoyment of interacting with women that really pushes us. I know it does for me.

Interacting with a beautiful, intelligent, and feminine woman is perhaps one of life's greatest joys. It's sad that many men don't get this opportunity once in their lives.

There is nothing fun in interacting with a whore from a cognitive perspective.

Good post,I concur absolutely.

However.....we are looking at whoring as being a black and white issue,and I suspect for most it isn't. Just because someone does bang whores I doubt it means they won't also try to game women. I doubt that there is a whoremonger in Kiev let's say who would turn down a girl if he met her in a bar simply because she was not a whore. For some they will use whores because they are married and want a fuck without strings. For some they might go out for an evening gaming but if they fail to close think fuck it I'll get a whore and bust my nut. Others will be old and know they can't get the kind of girl ( young and attractive ) that they are attracted to and so will pay for a whore. Others might really want a GF but have a disformity or whatever. The list goes on ad infinitum. I know a guy,lives in south of France,minted beyond belief,has game and plenty of women after him but he just enjoys the 'seediness' of banging a whore every now and then. So it's not black and white.

People are saying 'but there can't be any fun in whoring,there is no callenge'. I'd say the fact so many do it proves that to be wrong. There must be an excitement for them other then the actual sex act or they would just masturbate. From reading the whore forum that was linked on here recently I can see that there is a camaraderie amongst the whorists posting there,they seem to meet up a lot and socialize,they no doubt get a thrill from going to foreign countries and visiting shit holes in search of cheap pussy. No doubt they end up in some sketchy situations whilst hunting for whores in the poor parts of foreign cities which are funny memories to share with their fellow whorists.

Does that lifestyle appeal to me? No,I enjoy seduction too much. The sex for me
is secondary to the chase and the great nights out to be honest but that does not mean I am anti whoremongers. Each to their own. The only thing that fucks me off about them is that in certain places I'm regarded as being a whore monger just by being a foreign visitor,that makes seduction harder for all of us.

[WEDO]

(09-17-2012 07:50 PM)Katatonic Wrote:  

Haha, I love that the only thing they really have in common is their hatred of American women.

I'd add one more thing....neither group is looking for a serious relationship.

[WEDO]

(09-19-2012 07:48 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-17-2012 11:48 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

What's sad is that hitting on a girl is enormously fun. The genuine attempt to attract a girl releases endorphins and testosterone that nothing else can. The mystery of showing up in a foreign land and figuring out the way to behave only adds to the fun.

I get the feeling that to many of us, it's not the sex, well to an extent it is, but it's the enjoyment of interacting with women that really pushes us. I know it does for me.

Interacting with a beautiful, intelligent, and feminine woman is perhaps one of life's greatest joys. It's sad that many men don't get this opportunity once in their lives.

There is nothing fun in interacting with a whore from a cognitive perspective.

Good post,I concur absolutely.

However.....we are looking at whoring as being a black and white issue,and I suspect for most it isn't. Just because someone does bang whores I doubt it means they won't also try to game women. I doubt that there is a whoremonger in Kiev let's say who would turn down a girl if he met her in a bar simply because she was not a whore. For some they will use whores because they are married and want a fuck without strings. For some they might go out for an evening gaming but if they fail to close think fuck it I'll get a whore and bust my nut. Others will be old and know they can't get the kind of girl ( young and attractive ) that they are attracted to and so will pay for a whore. Others might really want a GF but have a disformity or whatever. The list goes on ad infinitum. I know a guy,lives in south of France,minted beyond belief,has game and plenty of women after him but he just enjoys the 'seediness' of banging a whore every now and then. So it's not black and white.

People are saying 'but there can't be any fun in whoring,there is no callenge'. I'd say the fact so many do it proves that to be wrong. There must be an excitement for them other then the actual sex act or they would just masturbate. From reading the whore forum that was linked on here recently I can see that there is a camaraderie amongst the whorists posting there,they seem to meet up a lot and socialize,they no doubt get a thrill from going to foreign countries and visiting shit holes in search of cheap pussy. No doubt they end up in some sketchy situations whilst hunting for whores in the poor parts of foreign cities which are funny memories to share with their fellow whorists.

Does that lifestyle appeal to me? No,I enjoy seduction too much. The sex for me
is secondary to the chase and the great nights out to be honest but that does not mean I am anti whoremongers. Each to their own. The only thing that fucks me off about them is that in certain places I'm regarded as being a whore monger just by being a foreign visitor,that makes seduction harder for all of us.

What was a real eye opener to me having lived overseas is just how different American whore mongers go about it compared to Colombianos.

American guys (usually on vacation) simply pay for sex and that is it....Colombianos on the other hand pay for a relationship...they do almost everything with their prepagos that they would do with their real girlfriends or wife. And these relationships have a surprising about of acceptance in the culture here.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-18-2012 10:04 PM)Tbone Wrote:  

It all depends on the situation. In Colombia I met an older American in his 50s. He's not attractive at all and has a beer gut. Who is he gonna game?

But he makes good money. He spends a portion of it to bang girls that he normally wouldn't even get close to.

He doesn't speak Spanish but he wanted some ass. So one night we found a website with Colombian hoes. I called and "ordered" a hoe for him.

The faces were covered up on the site. We only saw bodies. But when she showed up, we were shocked at how beautiful this girl was. He would NEVER fuck a girl like that without paying for it.

I think being fat is just being lazy unless there is a genetic disposition that is causing it. He may be ugly, but he could still make the most out of his looks, learn game, and probably do pretty good. That requires work.

With that said, I could see a man driven by other things, like making money, who has less time for gaming or women in general. I wouldn't really consider that lazy if he is doing it, not because he has to, but because he would rather concentrate on other aspects of his life.

I don't think most mongers fall into that category.

Quote:

Anyway, he seems perfectly happy with his lifestyle. More power to him.

At the end of the day, that is all that matters for any of us.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-19-2012 08:19 AM)WEDO Wrote:  

What was a real eye opener to me having lived overseas is just how different American whore mongers go about it compared to Colombianos.

American guys (usually on vacation) simply pay for sex and that is it....Colombianos on the other hand pay for a relationship...they do almost everything with their prepagos that they would do with their real girlfriends or wife. And these relationships have a surprising about of acceptance in the culture here.

Sounds like a lot of Thailand mongers. I think many go for a girlfriend experience which makes no sense to me.

[DrainTree]

Yes, some people in Honduras express love for money. My uncle always said that if needed, not to waste money on such endevors. Instead, I can use his goat for an evening.

To me, both are unsanitary. Best to do it bow the Greeks like it.0