[RenewalMan]

It's refreshing to read stories of men winning rape battles. Germany seems to be at the forefront of all this.

Quote:

A German teenager who said she was raped by a 31-year-old man was told by the judge she had not defended herself enough for the law to convict him – simply saying no was not enough.

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120914-44961.html

[Samseau]

Nah. This is pretty much the last time you'll see men win rape battles. Stories like these will become increasingly uncommon as the laws are changed by statue to make anything a rape crime.

Just look at the overall tone of the story and the comments, pretty much unanimous agreement that the verdict was bad, but it was in accordance with the laws.

Therefore, the laws will be changed.

[WanderingSoul]

Weird case. Says that the guy beat the shit out of one of the other girls that night, and is serving 3.5 years for it. The 17 year old girl may have been terrified of this guy, so didn't protest as she should have. Is that rape? No, but I wouldn't exactly call this case a win.

[Saladin]

(09-17-2012 12:29 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Weird case. Says that the guy beat the shit out of one of the other girls that night, and is serving 3.5 years for it. The 17 year old girl may have been terrified of this guy, so didn't protest as she should have. Is that rape? No, but I wouldn't exactly call this case a win.

Yeah. If anything, the girl probably was too terrified to resist.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I'd say that she was raped no matter what the verdict says, but I'd definitely question why she went to the apartment of a strange man 16 years older than her to smoke weed and get drunk, then stay for the whole night and even sleep over. I mean, he should still be punished if he forced or threatened her, but is personal responsibility really dead?

[Andy_B]

I can't be the only person here who thinks this decision is NOT a good thing... can I?

I'm pretty down with the "no means no" definition of rape. That's not some feminist BS, it's just about respecting human dignity and freedom of choice.

[xsplat]

(09-17-2012 01:56 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I can't be the only person here who thinks this decision is NOT a good thing... can I?

I'm pretty down with the "no means no" definition of rape. That's not some feminist BS, it's just about respecting human dignity and freedom of choice.

Ya, but.

Fit this into your view. I invited a girl over to my place after a lunch date. We watched a DVD of several mildly blue movies, and started to get a little frisky. She was resisting so I stood up, grabbed her by the ankles and pulled, then grabbed the hem of her jeans and pulled them off. I must have unbuttoned her pants somewhere in the process too.

She was screaming, LOUDLY, for the whole rooming house to hear, "STOP! NO! STOP STOP STOP!"

I didn't stop. I got her pants off. Then proceeded to get her relaxed and frisky again, up to the point of playing "just the tip". Just the tip just my ass. We were soon fucking.

That girl never left my apartment the next day. Or the day after. Stayed with me for 2.5 years until I left her.

Was that rape?

Did no mean no?

[w00t]

(09-17-2012 01:56 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I can't be the only person here who thinks this decision is NOT a good thing... can I?

I'm pretty down with the "no means no" definition of rape. That's not some feminist BS, it's just about respecting human dignity and freedom of choice.

No youre definitely not alone.
Its pretty fucked up.

But anything that is pro man, anti woman seems to be congratulated on this forum. No matter if it actually makes sense or not.

[WanderingSoul]

(09-17-2012 01:56 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I can't be the only person here who thinks this decision is NOT a good thing... can I?

I'm pretty down with the "no means no" definition of rape. That's not some feminist BS, it's just about respecting human dignity and freedom of choice.

Read the three poster above you. I think we are mostly all in agreement here.

[Samseau]

(09-17-2012 02:06 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(09-17-2012 01:56 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I can't be the only person here who thinks this decision is NOT a good thing... can I?

I'm pretty down with the "no means no" definition of rape. That's not some feminist BS, it's just about respecting human dignity and freedom of choice.

Ya, but.

Fit this into your view. I invited a girl over to my place after a lunch date. We watched a DVD of several mildly blue movies, and started to get a little frisky. She was resisting so I stood up, grabbed her by the ankles and pulled, then grabbed the hem of her jeans and pulled them off. I must have unbuttoned her pants somewhere in the process too.

She was screaming, LOUDLY, for the whole rooming house to hear, "STOP! NO! STOP STOP STOP!"

I didn't stop. I got her pants off. Then proceeded to get her relaxed and frisky again, up to the point of playing "just the tip". Just the tip just my ass. We were soon fucking.

That girl never left my apartment the next day. Or the day after. Stayed with me for 2.5 years until I left her.

Was that rape?

Did no mean no?

I'm with xsplat. No is not good enough. I think I've fucked maybe two girls who didn't resist.

[xsplat]

The girl who is living with me now had to be physically forced during the sexual act. It took a month of seduction and a few times of breaking up with her for her sexual reticence, but even after she had verbally agreed, her body just couldn't say yes.

Rape is difficult. A girl can squeeze her legs together, and if you use both hands to pry them apart, she can use her hands to cover her pussy. And the whole time she can knee you in the balls.

But I got her virginity, and also her heart. Two years later she's still head over heels in love.

Was that rape?

Nobody - not even a husband on her wedding day - could have got that girls cherry. Some girls give a major shit test, and only want to fuck a man who is exactly that dominant.

And don't pretend that this is dangerous information that is going to confuse someone and cause a real rape. We all know what a real rape is. But if you think that the examples I just gave are actual rape, then explain.

[Tuthmosis]

I gotta agree with some of guys above. This is a bad example to use on behalf of the guys who are against the tragic, damaging, and unfair effects of actually false rape-accusation. In other words, I wouldn't throw any support this guy's way.

If we accept that the guy had--in fact--already beaten up one of the girls (something he was convicted for), he'd basically created a coercive environment. The girls could have banged him simply out of a real fear that they would get it worse. That shit, whether "rape" per se, should continue to be illegal. I, like most of you, know that "no" doesn't always mean "no" (unlike "stop!" which almost always does mean no). We also know that a lot of bullshit can motivate rape accusations--after the fact--like regret, anger at the guy, or simple embarrassment.

That said, I don't think the only type of actual rape is when a guy captures a girl in the street and keeps her in a dungeon in his basement for two weeks. We need to speak out against stupid allegations, but the solution isn't to become denialists, lest we discredit ourselves. I don't know all the facts of this particular case, but it doesn't sound like something I'd call a "win"--by any stretch.

[RenewalMan]

I'm in agreement with the situation being fucked up. I posted this in a bit of a rush, and probably should have been more clear with what I was saying. This guy clearly did something wrong, especially given that the victim in question is so young. However, the fact that Germany has laws saying "No doesn't always mean no," and they are actually enforced without impunity means something. It creates an environment where women will think twice to call rape when they regret having sex with a man.

[Samseau]

(09-17-2012 02:53 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

If we accept that the guy had--in fact--already beaten up one of the girls (something he was convicted for), he'd basically created a coercive environment. The girls could have banged him simply out of a real fear that they would get it worse. That shit, whether "rape" per se, should continue to be illegal.

This is a good argument. Did they use this in the courts? Or does a coercive environment not mean anything in German law?

[theIVth]

I was in college and would go over this girls house to study every once in a while. We would always get physical but never actually had sex. One day I pull her panties to the side while she's saying no and pushing my hand away, gently, while passionately moaning. Never wanting to feel like I forced a girl, I stopped and put my pants on. I looked at her and said "I shoulda just slid it in". She replyed "....yea, you should have"

[xsplat]

Most men are normal. It's not normal to want to cause women harm. We all want them to look back fondly on fucking us. To want to come back for more.

The urge to cause sexual harm, I'm convinced, is rare in men.

And that's why I gave my examples. We've been brainwashed to think that dominance is somehow sexual harm. It's actually what women want.

It is a cold hard fact of life that women very often, if not usually, WANT you to interpret their no as "try a little bit harder - but build up slowly enough that I don't get angry and run away".

A woman saying no has nothing to do if she was raped. Women commonly say no. It's part of the entire sexual seduction process!

And so in this particular example, the fact that the german law recognizes this innate biological hard wiring - that a woman saying no is not in itself enough of a cause to claim rape - that's a good thing.

The man beating up someone is obviously not, and it's great he got convicted of that. I don't have enough infomation to know if the girl gave consent and had regrets later, or if she was genuinely afraid of being beaten up if she didn't fuck the guy. By her actions I'd lean to assuming she wanted the guys cock inside her.

Now I know a lot of guys are going to be turned off by this, and even want to deny this female nature. Guys who want to identify with the good guy, and believe that's what women really want. "I'm not like those other guys".

In that case you won't be able to know what i"m talking about. Women screen for men who know what their actions mean, and who know what their words mean. It's not what they say that is important, it's what they do. And what they do is fuck forceful men, and come back for more and more and more.

And friendzone the guy who didn't just go for it because she protested.

It's been mentioned enough times elsewhere that I think it must be common knowledge now. When a women says no, you back off, and wait for her to come to you for affection. Then you escalate again just a little bit PAST her boundaries. Then back off again when she protests, then escalate more - further past her previous boundaries. Rinse and repeat. Grab tits, back off. Grap tits under the shirt. Back off. Suck her nipples, back off. Grab her pussy, back off. Pull her pants off, then play just the tip. Back off. To each no, you don't agree, but you just back off for a minute, then go further.

If you are good at sexual escalation, you can afford to be weak in other areas. Like a wrestler who only knows the choke hold, if you know it well, you can still beat a well rounded opponent.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(09-17-2012 02:22 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

The girl who is living with me now had to be physically forced during the sexual act. It took a month of seduction and a few times of breaking up with her for her sexual reticence, but even after she had verbally agreed, her body just couldn't say yes.

Rape is difficult. A girl can squeeze her legs together, and if you use both hands to pry them apart, she can use her hands to cover her pussy. And the whole time she can knee you in the balls.

But I got her virginity, and also her heart. Two years later she's still head over heels in love.

Was that rape?

Nobody - not even a husband on her wedding day - could have got that girls cherry. Some girls give a major shit test, and only want to fuck a man who is exactly that dominant.

And don't pretend that this is dangerous information that is going to confuse someone and cause a real rape. We all know what a real rape is. But if you think that the examples I just gave are actual rape, then explain.

I am wondering in what country you are located and how many times you have pulled this off?

As a Black man I don't play around with ASD. If I even get even a hint that a lizard(specially White ) is uncomfortable I stop, charged it to the Game and on to the next one. I dont even have to look at the statistics but I am pretty certain that Brothas barely beat rape cases . All is going to take is her word and I am fucked. No CSI, no wItnesses, no bruised punani, no cum stained pantIes. Just her w-o-r-d. Life isn't fair, but being Black+plowing Thru ASD=Sex offender registry. Good luck explaining to the jury that you are an Alpha man and that women love dominant man.

[void]

in this case, the guy got lucky if he did it. several other questions demand an answer?
why was she drinking and smoking weed with such an asshole at the age of 15?
why did the other grown women leave her alone with him, didnt they care about her?

[xsplat]

(09-19-2012 11:48 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

(09-17-2012 02:22 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

The girl who is living with me now had to be physically forced during the sexual act. It took a month of seduction and a few times of breaking up with her for her sexual reticence, but even after she had verbally agreed, her body just couldn't say yes.

Rape is difficult. A girl can squeeze her legs together, and if you use both hands to pry them apart, she can use her hands to cover her pussy. And the whole time she can knee you in the balls.

But I got her virginity, and also her heart. Two years later she's still head over heels in love.

Was that rape?

Nobody - not even a husband on her wedding day - could have got that girls cherry. Some girls give a major shit test, and only want to fuck a man who is exactly that dominant.

And don't pretend that this is dangerous information that is going to confuse someone and cause a real rape. We all know what a real rape is. But if you think that the examples I just gave are actual rape, then explain.

If I even get even a hint that a lizard(specially White ) is uncomfortable I stop, charged it to the Game and on to the next one..

Uncomfortable? I'm not sure a girl has ever been uncomfortable. Resisting escalation, yes. But clearly enjoying herself and wanting to be there. There is a clear difference that doesn't require Amazing Kreskin mind reading skills to discern between a girl who wants you who is enjoying the seduction process but resisting her own urges, and a girl who does not want you and does not want your advances.

See, you've described perfectly the mindset that has a difficult time internalizing this sexual dynamic. You've soaked sexual dominance in fear and negativity. "Making the girl uncomfortable".

That's been nothing like my experience.

But maybe it was a casual word choice. Sexual tension does include an edge to it - no doubt.

When the sexual tension increases, either the girl is going to comply right away, without any last minute anti slut defenses or resistance to any of the 1000 things that aren't perfect about you, or the tension is going to be there and will dissipate as soon as you stop advancing kino to the next stage.

Sexual tension can't be all about "we're such good friends now. Now I'm really comfortable enough to be naked with you and kiss you with love and trust".

That's not how women work, and that's not how fast seduction works.

And if you're worried about false rape claims, set up video and audio recorders in your place. My place is covered with them, and everything is automatically recorded. Except for the kitchen.

Girls who comply with no resistance have been known to make the false rape claim. I wouldn't be surprised if they do so at a higher rate than those who put up moderate resistance. Even girls who initiate threesomes will make false rape claims.

Seduction through sexual escalation is just part of the job description of seduction. If you don't want that part of the job then you have a half assed attitude towards both the job and girl.

Girl: "No!"
Guy: "Aw shucks. Ok then."

[xsplat]

This is a good place to quote Samseau's comment http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15334-...#pid257105 about a George Galloway interview:

"Apparently in the same podcast where he defends Assange, he also talks about the nature of rape in general. He gives a very pro-man view, talking about how sex is not just a "consensual" thing like buying a car but instead a moment of passion where the man must initiate and push past a girl's boundaries."

[SierraNovember]

I kinda read through most of these comments You guys are entitled to your opinion. If the guy didn't violate German law then fine. The law is the law. But I'm not sure how in the shit not fighting back enough is a concept that exists. The concept disgusts me. If the chick says no ... its just fucking no. Not a big deal, not worth the hassle. It is what it is. And what was the chick suppose to do, risk getting the shit beat of her. Or fight back until she got killed or choked out. Come the fuck on. Man on Man rape is mad serious business. We can all say what the shit we WOULD do in that situation, but regardless of how far we went, Im damn sure we would not want our fight-back ability to be involved in whether or not the guy gets a conviction. Or lets talk about fucking kiddie rape. Well actually, no, I just ate. Again, if the dude didn't violate German law then fine, but I'm not a fan of "she should have fought if it was really rape" shit.

[Deluge]

If we start denying that rape exists, we become just as bad as the feminists that deny that false rape exists.

[xsplat]

Of course rape exists. But if we say that it exists every time a woman says no and the sex then continues, or if we say that every time a woman says no but has sex anyway then the sex is not consensual, then we are lying and putting innocent men in jail. And we are cock-blocking the natural process of seduction.

[Deluge]

(09-20-2012 02:30 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

Of course rape exists. But if we say that it exists every time a woman says no then and sex continues then the sex is not consensual, then we are lying and putting innocent men in jail. And we are cock-blocking the natural process of seduction.

The dealbreaker here is that she eventually said yes to you. Like in your first post in the thread, she eventually gave permission for "just the tip" and didn't say no again after that.

[xsplat]

(09-20-2012 02:48 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(09-20-2012 02:30 AM)xsplat Wrote:  

Of course rape exists. But if we say that it exists every time a woman says no then and sex continues then the sex is not consensual, then we are lying and putting innocent men in jail. And we are cock-blocking the natural process of seduction.

The dealbreaker here is that she eventually said yes to you. Like in your first post in the thread, she eventually gave permission for "just the tip" and didn't say no again after that.

You understand me exactly.

Saying no during the INITIAL stage of sex is not the same as saying no during sex.

Saying no and then continuing on to sex is not a clear boundary to define rape. It's not any sort of boundary at all.

Women say no during sexual escalation all the time. It's just part of the process - it's not some horrible traumatic boundary that can never be crossed without a need for the police to get involved. It's just normal people normal sex.