[Taciturning]

I was pointed to this by Roosh's tweet.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/adios-man-o-sphere/

I started skimming very quickly only a short way into it when he got on the topic of "PUAs" and "Gamers". He says, "They are comprised mostly of men who bear the deepest afflictions of a fatherless culture." What exactly does that mean, a fatherless culture? Is it, like, there's not enough male role models? And then there's, "...they have been dropped into the solipsistic void that was the only existence feminism ever could have offered them outside direct servitude." Huh? What the fuck is a solipsistic void? I'm better read than most, and I had to re-read that a couple times. You know what I came up with? "Dude...I'm just tryin' to get some pussy. What are you talkin' about?" When it comes to men's rights, the problems are obvious and they are legal and cultural in nature. Get elected, change the law. Become a lawyer/judge, change the law. Or, change the culture by educating men and women about what's wrong. But solipsistic voids? That sounds like another name for a dirty asshole. You won't be changing anyone's mind by talking like that.

[Basil Ransom]

Solipsism is self-absorption, the belief that the world revolves around you, and the inability to consider anyone's perspective but your own. Your reality is the only one that exists. Girls, especially attractive ones, tend to be solipsistic. Eg, when a girl doesn't understand why a guy can't get laid at the snap of a finger - "I can, why can't you? It's the easiest thing in the world!"

Paul Elam is better than most MRAs. That said, like you, I don't understand what Elam supposes we should want. Eg, if we weren't in a 'fatherless culture,' what would we be doing differently?

I think he blames exactly the wrong people. Sure there are fatherless kids, and they have their issues. But it's not a driving force of men driven to seduction. Certainly not me. So what is? The 'wifeless' culture. The paucity of women worthy of a man's commitment. That's what makes us behave like cads. If women did a better job of satisfying us, we wouldn't be so restless. But, we live in a culture where women have a laundry list of requirements for every suitor, but if the man dares have any standards when it comes to women, he is an evil misogynist.

How do you fix this? How do you actively contribute?

I don't know. Personally, I try to avoid funding sources of misandry. I don't pay for TV. I try to avoid buying things that fund advertising, like packaged food and overpriced designer clothes. I tell girls to wear heels on first dates. I mock them for being feminists (you can get away with that in LA, not sure about SF or DC though...). Maybe I'm not actively helping much, but I'm sure I'm not making things worse.

[teh_skeeze]

I'd be interested to see if there are any polls out there on the age of MRAs and MGTOWs. I'm willing to bet that they are of the older crowd that did what society expected of them, wifed a bitch up, then got the not so sweet pounding known as divorce rape. As much negativity that they have towards women, in the end all they want is another wife. Since they are too damaged from the first time around, it is unlikely that they will be able to get anything beyond a lap dance at the local strip joint (this is where game comes in). So they come online to bitch about their plight in the hope that men will see how sour they have become and just say "screw it". Of course, young men think with their dicks, and we don't like that dry feeling between our legs. So we take caution by learning from the mistakes of our older brethren, but we don't go so far as to ignore the opposite sex. We aren't wired for it. Instead we do what we can to improve ourselves and learn how to get as much as we can while giving as little as possible, at least until she earns it.

[Gmac]

Paul is a dinosaur on the verge of extinction.

Also, when my parents split I went with my dad who became one of the biggest players I know.

[Rah]

I think Paul is right that the Game side of the manosphere lacks in brotherhood. Players tend to be lone wolves, which makes sense. But I don't think that's healthy. Humans are tribal creatures by nature and without some sort of social safety net I think we become stunted and have a hard time feeling totally at peace or content. If shit hits the fan there should be a group of men that will have your back. Men have created various male bonding rituals, clubs, societies, etc since the dawn of time and for good reason. Paul's also right that our generations grew up devoid of initiation into any of those traditional male groups. Men didn't used to rely on their spouse for all their social support like beta males do now, the wives were part of a man's life but not all of it. I think the beta male's tendency to become so attached and clingy to women these days is directly attributable to the lack of male bonding in modern society.

Of course, he then goes on to talk about how MRAs haven't been able to get anything done because they bicker incessantly like little girls with each other, so I guess they're lacking even more in brotherhood.

[HiFlo]

and who exactly is paul elam?

[Basil Ransom]

Rah, being a player isn't necessarily a solitary pursuit. Who scores the hottest pussy for the least effort on the planet, while ignoring women? Fraternity brothers. And their brotherhood is as real as any other.

[RawGod]

(09-06-2012 03:38 PM)teh_skeeze Wrote:  

I'd be interested to see if there are any polls out there on the age of MRAs and MGTOWs. I'm willing to bet that they are of the older crowd that did what society expected of them, wifed a bitch up, then got the not so sweet pounding known as divorce rape.

I agree. It must be really tough to have been screwed all your life and try to choke down the red pill when you are older, overweight and poor. I have sympathy for those guys.

But I still say even if you're 50, fat and broke, rather than whining, get into eating paleo, lifting and get your ass down to the Philippines.

[Samseau]

(09-07-2012 02:47 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

Rah, being a player isn't necessarily a solitary pursuit. Who scores the hottest pussy for the least effort on the planet, while ignoring women? Fraternity brothers. And their brotherhood is as real as any other.

I was in a frat. This is a huge myth.



As for Paul Elam:


"They are comprised mostly of men who bear the deepest afflictions of a fatherless culture."


And what, exactly, created the fatherless culture we live in today? Surely it's not the pill/abortion/divorce rape/automatic child custody to women regime we live in, is it?


The thing about conservatives is that they will DEFEND a woman's right to divorce a man, while completely ignorant of the consequences of such behavior.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-07-2012 08:06 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2012 02:47 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

Rah, being a player isn't necessarily a solitary pursuit. Who scores the hottest pussy for the least effort on the planet, while ignoring women? Fraternity brothers. And their brotherhood is as real as any other.

I was in a frat. This is a huge myth.

Most frats suck. The top couple frats at any school with a good Greek presence, however, have it pretty good.