[greeklettermale]

How PUAs, Including Roosh, are Further Exacerbating the Masculization of Women



While she's getting her pussy "demolished" by a strange man she'll never see again, the excitement and thrill of it might flood her with a rush of endorphins. But after he leaves, and doesn't see her again, those endorphins quickly change into remorse and regret, and these last a lot longer and have a far bigger impact on the girl's life from that day forward, than the hour or two of thrill. She learns that she cannot trust men - and even worse, that she cannot trust HERSELF. Every halfway decent looking, masculine man she sees now, she's going to have to be more guarded. She knows that if she lets her guard down for even a minute, she could find herself getting swept up and "demolished" again, so she learns to wear a thicker skin, act more curt, and even be rudely unresponsive in public towards single men.

And most importantly, being "on guard" is THE most destructive energy toward femininity. No longer can she sit in a coffee shop or walk down the street in comfort, unguarded, free - she has to bring her own, internal, masculine guard with her wherever she goes. And gradually, this becomes incorporated into her habit and demeanor. And since energy affects the body, her body masculizes as well: skin, voice, and gait all lose softness.  Voila: a masculized girl. Thanks to the PUA.

"But wait a minute", you say. "Girls WANT to have sex. A man like Roosh is giving her what she WANTS. Sex is a normal, natural, vital part of being human."

A girl wants to have sex - with a man who LOVES her. (And for all the die-hard evolutionary psych fans, just read that as a man who will stick around to care for the baby she would have had were it not for the darwinistically irrelevant condom). Girls - especially Latin and Eastern European feminine girls who haven't been corrupted by feminism yet - want to have sex with a man in a *love relationship.* This desire is intimately intertwined with the feminine energy we enjoy in girls from these traditional countries. She wants to fuck, of COURSE - but the difference between her, and a masculized feminist who fucks like a man, is she wants to save her fucking for only situations in which her and her partner are in love. These two conditions - femininity (which we all want), and the saving of sex for love, are intertwined and inseperable.

The fun of the fuck wears off. The day after the PUA stops seeing her - or fucks another girl - or travels to another country - the emotions start kicking in, trying to make sense of what happened. How could she let a guy just fuck her like that? He's not devoted to her, he doesn't love her, he won't care for the baby. The emotions she has to deal with now are despair, remorse, and regret. 

And she has to put her guard up from that day forward, to ensure she doesn't fall into such a trap again. Say hello to the bitch shield, say hello to the cockblock, say hello to curt, logical women
who walk, talk and think a little more like men.

So while alpha dogs like Roosh are having a blast harvesting all the first time crops, they're leaving the fields fallow for the rest of us. They suck the nutrients out of the soil, and then justify it by teaching other men how to drill it just as effectively. "See, I'm sharing the wealth!" he says. But that just speeds the process up even more, accelerating the spread of female masculization to traditional countries, even as he decries it here. Imagine the following argument from a logging company that clearcuts massive tracts of virgin forest for profit: "What we're doing is ok because we're sharing our superior logging technology with other companies, so they can get in on the action as well."

Yes Roosh, I expect you to care about future generations who will be here after you're gone.

The remedy for the situation is to focus less on conquest, and more on love. If you want to reverse the masculization of chicks, and allow them to rediscover femininity, this is how.

[Caligula]

Don't hate the player ... The sexual revolution changed the rules of engagement. The impact of playboys like us is negligible. The strategies we adopt are a response to the reality we face.

And who said we don't care about love? I've never mercilessly pumped and dumped a really sweet girl.

[BLarsen]

You put quite a lot of energy into this trolling attempt :-)

I'll just say this in reply: your diatribe is one long exercise in putting women on a pedestal.

[Samseau]

Nah, everything you say is bullshit and be falsified with some easy counter examples:

Russian women of the 90's
Polish chicks
Southeast asian chicks


All very slutty yet remained very feminine. If anything, American women aren't getting fucked enough, god knows they'd be more submissive if American men were giving it to them hard and good all the time.

Quote:

The remedy for the situation is to focus less on conquest, and more on love. If you want to reverse the masculization of chicks, and allow them to rediscover femininity, this is how.

I think you're a virgin. You really have no idea what you're talking about. The way to get a woman to fall in love with you isn't by focusing on love. It's by fucking her like a rag doll and making her completely powerless around you. That's when she'll be deep deep in love.



The #1 reason American women are masculine is because of little bitches (like you) who defend them. If American men weren't so fucking soft with them, American women wouldn't be so hard.

[Basil Ransom]

I can only speak of American girls: I think your points could be correct, if given a feminine girl to begin with. I've a favorite literary passage that says as much. But what you describe can only occur with a girl no older than 19, and is guaranteed to occur for the bulk of American women, whether by a 'PUA' or some other man. Even with girls 18 or 19 years old, the decay may be nearly complete, purely due to the toxic culture here. And players aren't getting at 15 year olds much.

The American woman often has outsize standards that ensure she'll end up with a man who won't love her. If she settles for a man who would love her, she may be incapable of loving him. She willfully refuses to do those things that would make him love her - eg show sweetness or care for him with home-cooked meals. She puts no value on pleasing her man. She fiercely guards her independence, casting a jaundiced eye on any romantic entanglements; she will not let herself love because that would give up too much 'control.' Before the player ever sets eyes on an American woman, the masculinization is complete. At that point, another cock in the vajeen won't have much impact.

[Samseau]

(09-02-2012 10:35 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

I can only speak of American girls: I think your points could be correct, if given a feminine girl to begin with. I've a favorite literary passage that says as much.

That passage only talks about the ability for a person to fall in love, not a woman's femininity.


A woman can be extremely feminine and yet still be a huge whore, slut, and liar. I've fucked plenty of chicks like this, and plenty of feminine American women. They make up the bread and butter of my bangs. I don't even talk to masculine women.


In fact, if you haven't banged a feminine woman it's almost guaranteed you're a submissive man-bitch. Feminine women are only attracted to strong, dominant, masculine men, so if you think all women are masculine it's because you're repulsive to the feminine ones.

[sylo]

And you bring up women from other parts of the world when it is obvious you have never been around these women, and your sitting there waiting for one huge rejection after the next from the very women you 'defend'

[Gmac]

Roosh isn't a PUA, so this thread is moot.

[Caligula]

Gentlemen, OP is a classic example of male rationalisation is action. "I can't get laid, it must be because players are corrupting all the women".

[obla]

i read your post and i'll say this from experience.. american AND americanized girls especially dont want a relationship unless it empowers them selfishly. and someone mentioned the sexual revolution.. i think that these women deep down despise men.. i really think this. its something thats been fed to them in this new age. for example, i was dating an american girl and we had a spat. her mom was there. and i gave her the last word.. then her mom tells her in front of me, "yeah thats it.. dont let THEM tell you what to do." so, these american women are now conditioned to rebel against men cuz its the feminine thing to do. i dont deal with them anymore.

[Roosh]

1. It's obvious this troll is female. I find that female trolls go to great pains in their moniker to make it male sounding to help cover for the fact that they aren't male.

2. The biggest problem with her argument is assuming I don't call women back after having sex with them. In fact, for the most feminine of my conquests, I do date them. I reward feminine behavior, just like many guys here. The only girls I consistently pump and dump are those who have little value besides their vagina. I like to think that I make feminine girls even more feminine while having little---if any---effect on girls who are more slutty and aggressive in their sexual behavior. Truth is many girls are pumping and dumping guys as much as we are to them.

3. Samseau pointed out some easy exceptions to the troll's arguments that I don't need to repeat, but the biggest assumption is that all women are feminine flowers. A night out in any American club or 30 minutes spent on Facebook can dispute that rather easily. A recent article in The Atlantic shows that women are PRECIPITATING the drive away from monogomous relationships and towards casual sex.

In the end, guys like us (GLU) are profiting from a decline that we did not start. We're too small to have a large effect on society, so the best we can do is profit and loot while the world races to the bottom. Even if we spectate and do nothing (and not get laid in the process), women of the world will not become more feminine. End game is approaching and the best way to deal with it is to get our dicks wet as much as possible. That's the world we live in.

If you're a female and have been negatively affected by this, which appears to be the case here, maybe you should have a talk with some of your feminist overlords who have changed the culture in one of their 684 women's studies centers in higher education. Today's culture is a result of their crusade, not ours.

[greeklettermale]

A lot of replies attempting to categorize me as a virgin, a guy who never travels... Etc...

But instead of debating the messenger, lets debate the message. We'll go point by point.

1. After the PUA leaves, the excitement of the fuck quickly wears off.

2. Whats left is the knowledge that she fucked a guy who she's not in a relationship with. She feels bad for letting herself be used. (For the evo-bio fans, her midbrain pumps her with discomforting emotions because she allowed herself to be impregnated by a man who won't raise the baby.)

3. Since she doesn't like to feel bad, she resolves to be more careful in the future, putting up a bigger guard around guys.

4. Bigger guard means bitch shield, cockblock, and other stuff that annoys us.

5. Being on guard more means more habituation of masculine personality characteristics.

Instead of calling me names, identify which step in my chain of reasoning you specifically disagree with.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-02-2012 10:44 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 10:35 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

I can only speak of American girls: I think your points could be correct, if given a feminine girl to begin with. I've a favorite literary passage that says as much.

That passage only talks about the ability for a person to fall in love, not a woman's femininity.


A woman can be extremely feminine and yet still be a huge whore, slut, and liar.

True. I know the type. I've fucked some real pixies. But these girls are far from typical. The bulk of girls are not that feminine, and don't care to make men a priority, in the first place. Plus, the ability to love and submit is correlated with femininity. Take away one and you often lose the other. A girl's romantic instinct can become corroded by frequent sexual encounters. So can a man's, in a sense, except that men become more attractive with a diminished ability to love. The same can't be said of women.

I also don't believe that fucking a girl well will turn her into a sweet little damsel. Consider the chicks mentioned that Hanna Rosin article, Boys on the Side - these chicks won't abandon the whole feminist enterprise, that they've been taught since birth, just because they got a good rogering.

My basic point is that the OP might've been right in some alternate reality where American women are feminine to begin with. But that scenario is currently a fantasy. This disappearance of femininity is not our doing. So it's a moot point. Maybe the OP is a troll, but I don't see his post as inherently 'trollish.'

[Clyde Rules]

People can debate the OP Or hear me out the op can stfu and gtfo with this nonsense. Roosh is right you are a woman cause even when you lose the discussion you ignore all the points made and continue to want to talk about it OP.

[Gmac]

Enough mumbo jumbo Psych 101 bullshit. Your hamster is running wild now with all your theories of how people's minds work.
There is no chain of reasoning, women aren't rational thinkers.

I think I've reversed the brainwashing my women's studies self-proclaimed feminist girlfriend received in grad school and growing up. My last three girlfriends all grew their hair out long and became feminine for me, while the sluts I banged deserved the pump and dumps.

Good behavior and loyalty are rewarded by alpha males. How's that for chain of reasoning?

[Hannibal]

There is a large, sweeping cultural disrespect for the male gender in American society because it is profitable from a consumerist standpoint. You want to see the root cause of this feminism bullshit? Look no further than the second or third wave feminist movement and the eager sponsorship of the government to cater to the needs of them (ie the government has replaced the man in the household).

People have been sportfucking each other since the dawn of time, it's not going to change, it won't go away, and it has nothing to do with the masculinization of females in America.

(09-02-2012 11:12 AM)greeklettermale Wrote:  

Instead of calling me names, identify which step in my chain of reasoning you specifically disagree with.

I'd say all of it, since your "chain of reasoning" is on a foundation of bullshit to begin with. You can pretend all you want that we shouldn't debate the messenger, but knowing about the messenger provides a contextual frame. If you're a woman, you probably won't understand what we're trying to say. If you're one of those bitter beta males who thinks it's everyone else's fault for him not getting laid, then you probably won't be swayed by our reasoning either. You didn't come here to learn, you came here to vomit your ideas, argue, then shut your ears to any dissenting opinion.

If the girl gets "pump and dumped" by an alpha, she gets a bigger bitch shield because she thinks she's worthy of alphas (especially if she's surrounded by fumbling betas). Yes, it's harder to get laid if you're a beta male trying to chase a girl who's been fucked by alphas.

If this girl feels bad that a guy fucked her and didn't call, then that was her problem. It's the woman's job to keep the man there, the guy already did the hard work of convincing her to sleep with him. Now it's her turn. Quid pro quo.

Those masculine characteristics don't come from alphas to the women. The women become more masculine because they are surrounded by betas who let them get away with that shit.

[avantgarde]

Most sluts are used to fucking multiple men without any commitments anyways. Maybe they are young, they feel being used and have a slight bitch-shield, then they move on, and get used to it after several times.
Plus, player are a little effect on their masculinization. It is more the culture and men, women allowing women to be so without the negative consequences.

[Gmac]

Women don't like to hear the cold-hard truth.

If we thought they were worth it, we'd stick around after sex. For us quality men, it's the quality women who have become rare to find. Pump and dumps happen to lower quality women. Why? Because they had nothing to offer as currency besides their pussy. As Roosh so eloquently pointed out, quality girls are rewarded with some level of commitment.

Women are the gatekeepers to sex.
Men are the gatekeepers to commitment.

Live with it.

[polymath]

I disagree with step 1. When I fuck someone, the excitement is permanent.

I'm going to throw you a bone here and actually be nice to you.

Your experiences with women and travel DO matter. They are the only basis you can have for developing and supporting ideas. All this speculative stuff ("evo-bio") you regurgitate is meaningless because most of it is concocted and you have no experience that proves otherwise.

You know how scientists prove theories? By putting them into practice. If Roosh and all the other players of the world have found a way, in practice, to get feminine behavior from women, then they have a more rightful claim to correctness than any five-linked argument that is not based on experience or observation.

Attractive women like attractive men.

If you don't know how to be attractive, then why are you putting it on us to leave all the girls alone so that they will remain naive virgins until you get to them?

And if you do know how to be attractive, then why are you worried about bitchiness?

[gringochileno]

I think the OP is getting the causation backwards. Women are getting pumped and dumped more because they have less to bring to the table in a relationship thanks to their increasing masculinization and girth, they're not getting fat and masculine because they're getting pumped and dumped more. There simply aren't enough players to account for this widespread of a cultural shift, and anyway the current wave of modern feminism got its start long before any of the PUA stuff came along. The much better explanation is that men are pursuing more than a ONS with fewer and fewer women because fewer and fewer women in Western society are worth more than a casual pump and dump.

I've also found that the people who most enable bad female behavior are beta males, not players. If you had a constant stream of hangers-on telling you how beautiful and special you were regardless of how disgusting and unfeminine you got, you'd probably be loathe to change your ways too.

[greeklettermale]

There definitely is a sweeping cultural disrespect for men. Roosh is right about the trends he identifies. Thats why I read his blog. Somebody has to point out the problem, and Roosh is doing a superb job at drawing attention to it. But he seems to be wilfully ignoring the ways in which he contributes to the problem. I like the fact that he rewards the good behavior, and he doesn't seem to be really into "pumping and dumping" for its own sake. But still, my argument that I've made above still stands, as no one has yet countered it. I'm open to new ideas, and if someone can show me convincing evidence and rational reasons to change my position, I will. Until then, good luck.

[Greek kamaki]

Of course we do some damage to the places we visit.Not exactly we it is more the uneducated masses of foreigners who follow and destroy the places like Riga,Prague etc.Hopefully there is not such capacity of affluent guys to do more damage and the current crisis limits resources more making the whole issue questionable(less travellers).
So the OP's argument is vain.EU accession,cheap accomodations,immigration and cheap airlines with corporations profiting from stag parties are much more to blame as it is expansion of gayism and feminism under the blessing of the western world.Gayism,feminism and staggism are serious blocks and appeal directly to the deterioration of the situation for us(meaning they aim to this deterioration,gays to get more male lovers deprived of female pussy,feminists to expand their agendas and power and staggers to bring their primitiveness everywhere to achieve equalization qanking for everyone).

[greeklettermale]

Gringochileno, the causation goes BOTH ways. You're right, and so am I. But the cycle has to be broken from SOME end, or else it'll just keep going.

Also, obesity is a result of low self esteem, not high. Thats in the scientific literature, its fact.

[Samseau]

(09-02-2012 11:12 AM)greeklettermale Wrote:  

A lot of replies attempting to categorize me as a virgin, a guy who never travels... Etc...

But instead of debating the messenger, lets debate the message. We'll go point by point.

1. After the PUA leaves, the excitement of the fuck quickly wears off.

2. Whats left is the knowledge that she fucked a guy who she's not in a relationship with. She feels bad for letting herself be used. (For the evo-bio fans, her midbrain pumps her with discomforting emotions because she allowed herself to be impregnated by a man who won't raise the baby.)

3. Since she doesn't like to feel bad, she resolves to be more careful in the future, putting up a bigger guard around guys.

4. Bigger guard means bitch shield, cockblock, and other stuff that annoys us.

5. Being on guard more means more habituation of masculine personality characteristics.

Instead of calling me names, identify which step in my chain of reasoning you specifically disagree with.

Did you read a single reply in this thread yet? There's been multiple refutations of each one of the points presented.

[Greek kamaki]

Moreover the interest of us as love tourists or international pussy hunters is to preserve and expand the available pussy pool in order to have more hunt available.In no way it is in our interest to reduce the number of our targets by irrational behaviour.After a meeting with a decent RVF member it is likely that the foreign female benefitor will ask for more having a more positive attitude towards the next one.In this way our contribution can be regarded as positive at least.
Contrary to that after a meeting with a militant feminist,a western gay or a stagger it is very likely that the attitude of the foreign girl will change to the worse.So their actions are to blame not ours.