[MikeCF]

I had bad acne and went to a bunch of dermatologists.

They're going to give the guy an Rx for antibiotics, Retin-A, and maybe some medicated cleansers and washes. If it's really bad, they'll put him on Accutane.

Good stuff, for sure.

But the dermatologist will almost certainly not discuss diet. Its far more likely that the dermatologist will be dismissive of the dietary role of acne.

Indeed, the dermatologist will not tell him, "The antibiotics you're about to take will also kill the beneficial bacteria residing in your stomach. You should thus take a probiotic in conjunction with your antibiotic therapy."

So the man who wants to conquer his acne will need to look beyond the drugs.

Most guys find themselves on this message board after realizing that mainstream relationship advice is, at best outdated. At worst, it's based on deliberate falsehoods. Either way, modern relationship advice is bogus. It's a lie.

Why then are so many guys here unwilling to reject the conventional wisdom of other fields?

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I still have acne though I'm in my thirties. I keep it under control with high strength benzyl peroxide. I only get acne when I forget to apply it.

This stuff works:
http://www.boots.com/en/OXY-10-Benzoyl-p...ml_872935/

Not only that, but when I started using benzyl peroxide again a few years, all the wrinkles around my eyes disappeared too. My forehead lines also softened dramatically.

It's a poor man's anti-aging cream.

Side-effects:
- your skin becomes sensitive, especially to sunlight. You learn to like hats
- it bleaches cloth and makes ugly orange patches. You learn to dress before putting it on (then the stuff doesn't smear on your shirts) and you learn to not put it on just before sleeping (to keep it off your bedding).
- it makes your skin feel tight, like you've had plastic surgery. I suspect this is what killed the wrinkles
- it makes your skin worse before it makes it better, all those buried pimples are flushed to the surface. Some people start peeling like crazy on first application.

You can turn down the side effects by starting with a lower dose benzyl peroxide, like oxy5.

If oxy10 doesn't work by itself, you can then add on a light dose of antibiotic and use the two in combination. Only a tiny minority of people will not respond to the combination and will need Accutane.

In my experience patients who only use the antibiotics but no benzyl peroxide will not have satisfactory skin clearance. Less often vice-versa, but still too many complaints of poor skin clearance. Combination therapy is the way to go for severe acne. If you go to a doctor and he doesn't offer combination therapy off the bat, then demand why not.

As for food, anything that causes your cortisol levels to rise will trigger acne as a side effect. The easiest way to push your cortisol levels up is to have a high-carbohydrate diet. This causes your insulin to spike, which causes cortisol to rise to calm down the insulin (cortisol powers down insulin's effects). This avoids having a rebound low glucose level but then you have this excess cortisol, which stimulates skin oil production in which pimple-causing bacteria thrive.

Since cortisol secretion triggers vary from person to person, which foods cause acne is probably a very individual thing.

That said, cortisol can exacerbate acne, it doesn't cause it.

Benzyl peroxide, people. Zaps acne and wrinkles. You can thank me for the advice after giving the stuff a 3 month test drive.

As for dermatologists: it's sad that people sugger to rather go to a dermatologist than your generalist. Are family practice physicians that useless/untrustworty in your corner of the world, that they cannot treat common acne? Your average dermatologist is not interested in acne, there are too many weird and wonderful skin diseases out there he'd rather be treating.

[Andreas]

(07-26-2012 10:48 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I should backpeddle (clarify) a little here. I don't mean to say general diet doesn't affect your overall health and therefore, by extension, your skin health, what I'm saying is that you're going to have a hard time pinpointing that shit. Yes, of course, you should eat well and drink water, but a lot of acne problems don't go away with that. Or, your skin requires perfect habits to keep normal. Some dudes and chicks eat like absolute shit and drink Diet Coke all day and they have perfect skin. There are tons of variables. It could be your pillow cases. It could be the face wash you're using. It could be that you touch your face too much. It could be that you hold the phone up to your face all day and that shit is full of bacteria. It could be stress. It could be your fucked up sleep schedule. It could be bad shaving habits. It could be that your skin is insufficiently acidic. You get the point.

What I was saying is like medieval science is the random theorizing everyone is doing. One guy said to take only cold showers. Another to hold an ice pack while you're doing stomach crunches. Yet another one to jump up and down while saying three Hail Marys. Some of that may work, but a lot of it is an exercise in futility. I urge you to attack the problem from more than one direction and to have one of those directions be a professional.

Eat well, sleep well, and do the other shit (wash your pillow cases, shave properly, etc.) for your overall health and skin. But see a dermatologist. It will save you a lot of time and experimentation. These guys know in 10 minutes.

Why would you discourage that?

The reason why people don't like dermatologists is because they give you antibiotics that clear acne but it doesn't last long. You have to continually use those products to keep your skin clear, otherwise you are screwed.

People believe (for whatever reason) that using other methods is better than using products prescribed by dermatologists, however it's all subjective and nothing has been actually proven right.

[Giovonny]

Some dermatologists are great, others are shitty. Its just like doctors, lawyers, mechanics, plumbers, electricians, teachers, etc. You have to do your research and find the good ones.

[WestCoast]

I would add that being healthy and having a healthy diet here has a lot to do with repetition.

We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore excellence is a habit.

Most people are on crap diets that just feeds a downward spiral. You should forcefully reverse this trend. Examples include:

1. Shopping when full. Generally you'll go against buying carbohydrates and quick meals. Don't believe me? Reflect one hat you eat when stressed out, likely absorb more carbs/junk food. Similar to links between alcoholism and stress.

2. Find a farmers market. Sure some shit is expensive but the seasonal stuff is usually Onthe cheap. 10-12 pears in season will cost you quarters versus 50c pieces.

3. Rinse your face. When you sweat/stress out try to simply wash with water if you can't afford nicer stuff. You'll at least avoid all the nasty crap from condensing in your pores. So when you finish at the gym, wash your hands then splash your face with pure water. The soap there is usually pretty shitty so just use water and use your own product at home.

4. Influxes of fat. Avoid random consumption of high calorie items with lots of oils, examples Include sun flower seeds, peanuts, almonds, candy, crackers, chips. Instead switch to binge eatig healthy stuff that's great blackberries are my favorite for this, second place is mangos, on the cheap you can eat carrots and celery.

5. Wash your pillow cases and door knobs. I wash my pillow cases when I do my regular laundry in addition think about what gets touched a lot that needs to get washed. It sounds "extreme" but not all that hard to just take a 2 second towel swipe when you open your doors once every 2 weeks. All those random people coming in and out carrier a shit ton of germs. (note I rarely use the towel move now because I have trained myself to never touch my face during the day).

Again you are what you repeatedly do

[solo]

What Giovonny and MikeCF said in this thread.

I have already posted this several times, but I had pretty severe acne and then bought this book, basically the Paleo diet coupled with supplements:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Acne-Prescript...0060188782

The acne totally disappeared within 2-3 months. That's enough evidence for me.

As I've been hitting the gym pretty hard recently I've gotten som acne on my chest and neck, though nothing severe.

[DLuzhin]

The best thing for acne is supplementation with high doses of pantothenic acid--vitamin b5--which is often the rate-limiting step in the metabolism of fatty acids.

http://www.drdach.com/Acne_B5.html

[Giovonny]

I've noticed a difference since switching to these organic cotton pillow cases..

http://www.target.com/p/target-home-325-...A-11991407

[Norset]

Adding a bit of info to this useful thread:

I quit drinking ~1 quart of milk (whole, but don't think it matters - it's not the saturated fat) a day, and started on 5% benzyl peroxide (Galderma, expensive) at night. Used 2.5% before, of a shittier brand (acne.org) - dried out skin MORE due to alcholos in it.

Acne 100% gone in 6 weeks. Use benzyl peroxide every 3rd night now, will scale down to 4th etc over time. That's the only changes I made to lifestyle. My skin looks extremely healthy now, minus some light scarring/discoloring. So I'll never buy milk ever again (I don't avoid cheese/sour cream etc - I figure my body has some level it can deal with regarding the hormones in cow's milk causing it. From what I've read it's the bovine growth hormones that cause the increased skin oil production).

There is a huge link between diet and acne for a lot of people, and refined sugar (which I don't eat any of regardless) and diary are the largest sources.

[The Fantasist]

(07-27-2012 02:08 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I still have acne though I'm in my thirties. I keep it under control with high strength benzyl peroxide. I only get acne when I forget to apply it.

This stuff works:
http://www.boots.com/en/OXY-10-Benzoyl-p...ml_872935/

Not only that, but when I started using benzyl peroxide again a few years, all the wrinkles around my eyes disappeared too. My forehead lines also softened dramatically.

It's a poor man's anti-aging cream.

Side-effects:
- your skin becomes sensitive, especially to sunlight. You learn to like hats
- it bleaches cloth and makes ugly orange patches. You learn to dress before putting it on (then the stuff doesn't smear on your shirts) and you learn to not put it on just before sleeping (to keep it off your bedding).
- it makes your skin feel tight, like you've had plastic surgery. I suspect this is what killed the wrinkles
- it makes your skin worse before it makes it better, all those buried pimples are flushed to the surface. Some people start peeling like crazy on first application.

You can turn down the side effects by starting with a lower dose benzyl peroxide, like oxy5.
If oxy10 doesn't work by itself, you can then add on a light dose of antibiotic and use the two in combination. Only a tiny minority of people will not respond to the combination and will need Accutane.

In my experience patients who only use the antibiotics but no benzyl peroxide will not have satisfactory skin clearance. Less often vice-versa, but still too many complaints of poor skin clearance. Combination therapy is the way to go for severe acne. If you go to a doctor and he doesn't offer combination therapy off the bat, then demand why not.

As for food, anything that causes your cortisol levels to rise will trigger acne as a
side effect. The easiest way to push your cortisol levels up is to have a high-carbohydrate diet. This causes your insulin to spike, which causes cortisol to rise to calm down the insulin (cortisol powers down insulin's effects). This avoids having a rebound low glucose level but then you have this excess cortisol, which stimulates skin oil production in which pimple-causing bacteria thrive.

Since cortisol secretion triggers vary from person to person, which foods cause acne is probably a very individual thing.

That said, cortisol can exacerbate acne, it doesn't cause it.

Benzyl peroxide, people. Zaps acne and wrinkles. You can thank me for the advice after giving the stuff a 3 month test drive.

As for dermatologists: it's sad that people sugger to rather go to a dermatologist than your generalist. Are family practice physicians that useless/untrustworty in your corner of the world, that they cannot treat common acne? Your average dermatologist is not interested in acne, there are too many weird and wonderful skin diseases out there he'd rather be treating.

Thomas, how do you apply it? Is it a face wash or do you a dab a bit on individual spots when they pop up? You made it sound like you apply it like a face cream.

[1bliss]

I never had a problem with zits/pimples on my face, but when I started working out hard I also started to drink LOTS of milk. I then got back acne on my shoulder blades/upper back. Never knew what it's from. I went on vacation one summer, spent lots of time under the sun and in salty Mediterranean beaches, and did not consume any milk or anything from cows. It completely went away.

I stopped drinking milk ever since and the acne hasn't come back. Still a little tiny bit of scarring but it is fully healed.

So, I think it's the milk and cow products.

[Don]

I've dealt with acne for years, and as many did before me, i relentlessly tried to find a 'cure'. As we speak i've got only 1 pimple of my face, and that's because of my shitty lifestyle from the past couple of weeks. I didn't get a flare up in a long time, and i can safely say that i "cured" my acne. Here are a few things i've learned:

Acne is caused by 4 factors
- Hyper-keratinization
- Inflammation
- P. acnes
- Oversecretion of sebum

This is the reason why it's so hard to get rid of it. Most creams and drugs deal with only 1 cause, and leave the rest untreated. Any drugs or solutions you will hear people talk about take care of one of these four causes. If you want to successfully get over this, you need to hit the problem from all the possible angles, and i'll tell you how

Hyper-keratinization
This means that the process by which dead cells are forced out of the follicle is interrupted and the dead cells end up not leaving the skin because of keratin(a natural protein in your skin).

Solution: Retin-A(Tretinoin). (read up on it) Use it at night, every-day or every 2 days in combination with Brevoxyl.

Inflammation
In the book "The dietary cure for acne", the author said about acne that it's "like skin diabetes". You need a low sugar/starchy carb/diary diet in order to keep the insulin levels down. High levels of insulin resistance have been linked to acne vulgaris.

Solution: Supplement with chromium
Avoid simple sugars, stick to complex carbs

P.Acnes
This is the bacteria responsible for your pimples. It lives on all our faces, but it seems like some people have more of it, while others don't.

Solution: Brevoxyl.

Oversecretion of sebum.
If you have acne your sebum glands are fucked up. They respond to any imbalance in the body(hormonal mostly) with producing more oil(retarded, i know).

Solution: Zinc, and wash your face with something that dissolves the sebum so it won't block your pores.

I could write a whole book on the things i've learned these years, but i kept it short and I just want to "push you in the right direction". Read up on those 4 causes and try to find ways to combat them. If you have any more questions feel free to send a PM.
Acne is a bitch.

[Captain Ahab]

Milk, Milk, Milk.

I had a pretty clean face for a while since I went lactose intolerant after hopping on the Almond Milk bandwagon. I recently discovered Lactaid milk and was having a blast scarfing down cookies and washing it with cow juice, that is until my face started looking like South Vietnam during the Kennedy administration.

Stay away.

[Dr. Howard]

Some people say I eat to many choc-olate bars....or that I don't wash my face.

[CMan0928]

Those looking for a good facial cleanser should check out the CeraVe brand. Good stuff. They make cleansers for both dry and oily skin types. You can find then at Walgreens & CVS.

[ComebackKid]

Accutane is the most effective treatment, but definitely a very serious drug.

[Giovonny]

I recently started eating large amount of nuts everyday. (almonds, cashews, brazil nuts, peanuts)

About 24 hours later, my skin started looking better. Connection? I think so, I know the oils in these nuts are good for the skin. I saw some pretty good results almost immediately.

Will this work for you? Who knows? Too many factors involved to predict. But, generally speaking....the better your diet, the better you skin!

[JohnnyAppleSeeds]

(12-12-2012 01:10 PM)CMan0928 Wrote:  

Those looking for a good facial cleanser should check out the CeraVe brand. Good stuff. They make cleansers for both dry and oily skin types. You can find then at Walgreens & CVS.

Thank man, after reading this thread regarding alcohol in cleansers I checked out my Clean&Clear astringent I've been using and the 2nd inactive ingredient listed is alcohol. I will give that brand a try. Hopefully it helps with the ingrown hairs I get much too frequently for my liking (I get a huge mound on my face and usually need to squeeze/burst out the ingrown hair, which always seems to be multiple hairs stuck together, it sucks, takes forever to heal).

[sheesh]

There is no proven connection between diet and acne. Of course, if you drink alcohol, smoke and never touch fruits and vegetables, you're not going to be healthy and your skin is going to reflect it.

But saying that chocolate or e.g. fatty foods cause acne is wrong.

[lush1]

Personally - bread, and I've found since I started taking 75mg of zinc a day my skin has got a lot better

[Joga Bonito]

I read somewhere on a dermatologist's blog that acne can be caused by your liver being damaged or not working to its full efficiency. You can try things like milk thistle, a liver cleanse, or liquid chlorophyll(to name a few) to try and flush your liver and see if that helps as well.

[eradicator]

(07-26-2012 10:31 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I only get acne when I've been taking hot showers for a week or more.
Just take cold showers, and then every other day at the most. You can wash your head, hands, and face every day. Skin also can't get continually raped by loofas. Always disrupting the outer layer of skin leaves it susceptible to shit like acne.

Also for whatever reason, whenever I sweat regularly (in this damned heat, literally gallons), my skin looks great.

Not sure about the diet thing to be honest. I eat and drink more full-fat dairy than probably half of this site. The only thing I really avoid is wheat, soda, and processed food.

This is good, I love cold showers, and it is great for my skin. I tried a hot shower the other day and broke out in back acne. Ive been on accutane, tho it was 20 years ago, it worked.

Ive had good success with cetaphil and will try using that again, and am also trying to put apple cider vinegar on my back acne.

The other thing, change your sheets frequently on your bed and pillow case. If you are banging regularly, you probably do this anyways, but it is better for your skin.

Like others have said, don't touch your face or other problem areas with your hands. Don't ever pop pimples: it just causes more flare ups. It can be extremely glorifying to just not pop a white head for a few days, the swelling goes down and no longer becomes irritated, and then the white head just comes off in the shower.

Good thread.