[Samseau]

See, the problem is that you'd have to make your desicion before the verdict. If you're facing 40 years, but think you'll be found innocent, should you still run?

And if you run, it will be taken as an admission of guilt. If you stay you might be found innocent.

However, if the verdict is found guilty you won't be able to run anywhere, as your passport and assets will be frozen.


Personally I would take money out of my bank, keep tons of ca$h on hand during the trial, and if there's a guilty verdict disappear into the forest and make my way to Canada or Mexico. You'd have to find a way over the border without being cauught, then once in those countries take a plane to somewhere more remote.

Even that will be a challenge too, since without a passport you won't be able to go anywhere on a plane. In fact, once the trial is started your passport might be immediately frozen.


If you do something extremely illegal, and think you might get caught for it, it must be best to run before you get arrested.

[Smitty]

As some have alluded to, if there's an international manhunt for you, good luck. But if you're not a high profile criminal and you decide to run and want to avoid the airports and major choke points of a country, consider jumping aboard a cargo ship. A lot of shipping companies let civilians buy tickets and hitch a ride. If you do everything the formal way, you have to show your passport and possess the relevant visas for the countries to which the ship travels...but money talks on cargo ships. If you have money, you can make it work to your advantage. Especially foreign flagged ships. Just choose your destination port wisely. A lot of countries, such as the U.S., guard the terminals very well.

[kolovrat]

I doubt I'd bother remaining if I was facing more than 6 months.

Advantage of multiple passports - ass is covered for so many eventualities.

[rlongo924]

(06-20-2012 05:32 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

Incidentally, if he actually is alive, this is the one dude I know of that went on the run right:

I'd never heard of him before, insane story though. I wonder if he's still alive

[canucktraveller]

Another thing to consider is regardless of time served, being a convicted felon.

Spending a year in prison is doable, but a lifetime of not being able to leave the country? That is tough

[el mechanico]

Let's say you had to go to prison..Who's got your back in there? Are you gonna just walk into the general population or will some group be expecting you?

[MikeCF]

(06-22-2012 03:20 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Let's say you had to go to prison..Who's got your back in there? Are you gonna just walk into the general population or will some group be expecting you?

If you're white and in California state prison, you make your bones right away, on your first day, and catch the attention of the AB. Then you commit murder for the AB to join. If you know someone who has done time who can vouch for you, that won't hurt.

That or he'll be sold as a sex slave. (The AB is so brutal precisely because, being out numbered, they must be ruthless or get raped.)

Not everywhere else is as bad. On a 10 year rap in Iowa, you might do medium security with guys who are counting down their time, and thus are avoiding trouble.

If you're doing 40 years, you're with lifers. They have nothing to lose and don't give a fuck. Join (which means commit murder) or get turned out.

[Chapped3rdEye]

The world is big and life is short. Bounce.

[MikeCF]

By the way, every guy has one of two discussions about the criminal law, and neither are even close to consistent with reality:

1. "I would never plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit."

That's false. 99% of guys with asses on the line cop to something they didn't do. But nearly every guy is sure he wouldn't do the same thing. Even as crazy as I am, I would absolutely plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit to avoid 5-10x more prison time.

2. "I would flee."

How you gonna flee? You have cash? How long is that cash going to last?

Let's look at the logistics. The police don't give you a warning. "Hey, we're going to charge you with a crime."

Indeed, many times lawyers beg the cops, "Let us turn our client in. Don't arrest him at his home."

So it's not like you have time to stash money away before you're arrested.

You get charged with a crime and arrested. They arrest you at work so that you lose your job.

Now you're jobless. You're in jail.

To even get out of jail, you need to post bond. Bond is going to be 10% of bail, if you use a bail bondsman.

So let's say you're caught running drugs and your bail is $100,000. You'll post $10,000 to a bail bondsman. The bondsman will have to post the $100,000 if you flee. (That's why bounty hunters are hired to look for you.)

But bail bondsmen aren't stupid. You'll need to have a family member co-sign the bond. So if you flee, now a family member has to come up with the money.

So how many guys even have $10,000 to get bailed out? How many are going to leave a family member on the hook for the $100,000? Plus, if your bail is substantial, bounty hunters will be looking for you. Those guys are trained to find people, where as none of us are trained to hide.

Also, bail is set based on your net worth. So if you have $500,000 in the bank, your bail is going to be high. Your accounts will almost be frozen.

But let's be optimistic, almost to the point of fantasy.

Let's say you can somehow get $100,000 cash before your accounts are frozen. That has to last your entire life. It has to cover bribes. And let's hope you don't get robbed.

How are you and your duffell bag of cash going to get out of the country?

Are you physically tough? You're going to live in an underworld - which means you'll be around criminals all day. You ever shot someone, stabbed someone, or given someone a beatdown of their life?

Are you connected to people who can get you out of the border?

Why won't the criminals or government officials you think you'll bribe just take all of your money and then turn your ass in to the bounty hunter for a reward?

Fleeing is impractical, which is why almost no guy ever does it. In several years of dealing with criminals, I've never seen a guy go ghost.

But on the Internet, every guy would flee.

[Screwston]

I wouldn't even attempt to run unless it was 20 or more years. I can't believe some guys wouldn't do 6 months or a year. I would get down with Tango Blast, the biggest Hispanic prison gang in Texas. The only good thing I can think of is you're not expected to keep doing shit for them once you get out like others. Texas and California are the worst states for prison. It wouldn't be shit to get locked up in Iowa or Wyoming like Mike said.

I would also release "Prison Game" and break down the steps to fuck those female guards

[pitt]

A bit out of topic but the US law can be fucked up sometimes.

Last night i was watching this documentary about 2 black cats that assaulted a bank and killed one of the bank assistants. As a participant in the crime, there was this other guy that sold the guns to the two assaultants (those guns were used during the crime). The guy that sold the guns bought it from a gun shop and sold them for a profit. The judge gave life sentences for the two assaultants and for the guy that sold them the guns without the possibility of parole.. i just thought what the fuck? You sell guns and you get sent to jail for life, if he was in the UK, i doubt he would get sent to jail for more than 15 years..the US laws are crazy for real.

[joehoya]

(06-22-2012 05:54 PM)pitt Wrote:  

A bit out of topic but the US law can be fucked up sometimes.
.....the US laws are crazy for real.

Man, it's fucked up for sure. The most recent of the list of fucked up stories I have heard about is Clarence Aaron. He was a 23 year old college student from Alabama that was going to school in Louisiana. He had NO prior criminal record.

He knew some drug dealers in Louisiana and his cousin was a drug dealer in Alabama. His cousin offered him $1,500 just to introduce him to the dealers in Louisiana. So Clarence gave his cousin a ride from Alabama to Lousiana to introduce him to the guys in Louisiana. Clarence NEVER touched any drugs or transported any drugs. He just made the introductions. The government arrested him and he was convicted. What was the sentence of a first time offender who only made an introduction?


3 LIFE SENTENCES WITH NO PAROLE.

Compare that to this episode of "American Greed" that I just saw. The show profiles con-artists and fraudsters. The most recent dude started a Bernie Madoff style ponzi scheme. He stole over $21 million from people who were his friends, neighbors and folks in his church. Folks invested their life savings with him and lost EVERYTHING because of it. He even stole his mother and father's life savings. Shit was so bad that during his sentencing his own mother begged that he get as many years as possible. What was his sentence?

12.5 years

Check it out.

[WestIndianArchie]

redacted

[MikeCF]

^ I'm not talking about guys who jump bail or FTA/failure to appear.

I'm talking about guys who just go ghost, disappearing, never to be seen again.

What % of cases do you think that happens in?

What would you personally do if looking at 40 years?

[pitt]

(06-22-2012 08:52 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 05:54 PM)pitt Wrote:  

A bit out of topic but the US law can be fucked up sometimes.
.....the US laws are crazy for real.

Man, it's fucked up for sure. The most recent of the list of fucked up stories I have heard about is Clarence Aaron. He was a 23 year old college student from Alabama that was going to school in Louisiana. He had NO prior criminal record.

He knew some drug dealers in Louisiana and his cousin was a drug dealer in Alabama. His cousin offered him $1,500 just to introduce him to the dealers in Louisiana. So Clarence gave his cousin a ride from Alabama to Lousiana to introduce him to the guys in Louisiana. Clarence NEVER touched any drugs or transported any drugs. He just made the introductions. The government arrested him and he was convicted. What was the sentence of a first time offender who only made an introduction?


3 LIFE SENTENCES WITH NO PAROLE.

Compare that to this episode of "American Greed" that I just saw. The show profiles con-artists and fraudsters. The most recent dude started a Bernie Madoff style ponzi scheme. He stole over $21 million from people who were his friends, neighbors and folks in his church. Folks invested their life savings with him and lost EVERYTHING because of it. He even stole his mother and father's life savings. Shit was so bad that during his sentencing his own mother begged that he get as many years as possible. What was his sentence?

12.5 years

Check it out.

I cant even believe that shit, i think if someone was telling me this story in the streets, i would think they are just talking shit. Three life sentences for what?..what the fuck? This is like getting a life sentence for stealing a can of coke in a supermarket...I am almost sure i didnt miss anything in this story..i am sure nobody died.. why would he get sentenced for life? Thats some Thailand type of law. Thats shocking for real.

[BurnFirst]

It doesn't sound like the driver guy even did anything illegal.

[Caligula]

If you want an interesting insight into what it's like to 'go ghost' read Kevin Mitnick's Ghost in the Wires. Roosh reviewed it here: http://www.rooshv.com/more-book-reviews-11

This guy was good enough of a hacker that he could create multiple identities for himself, monitor the investigators on his trail, remotely control all the phone switches in the Los Angeles area, etc. Even so he couldn't do it for more than a couple of years. Granted it was his continued hacking that eventually led to his being caught, but it's a good insight into the psychological pressures of leaving your old identity behind and constantly watching your back.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-23-2012 12:50 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

^ I'm not talking about guys who jump bail or FTA/failure to appear.

I'm talking about guys who just go ghost, disappearing, never to be seen again.

What % of cases do you think that happens in?

What would you personally do if looking at 40 years?

Poor people - typically stay in custody and don't get the chance to bounce

Foreign nationals - I'd say the vast majority escape, especially if it's a drug crime.

Career Criminals that jump bail - they get away with the bail jump, but because they're career criminals, they get caught for committing another crime.

"regular people"/1st time offenders facing serious time - most of them don't jump bail and just deal with the court system and get fucked.

If I was facing serious time and I got bail? I'm gone.

I've got some paper set aside and a valuable skill set. I've seen a lot of guilty people do excessive time, and a lawyer's curse, an innocent client, get really bad time.

[Kona]

(06-22-2012 10:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

although the way the bond system works in many jurisdictions, the court doesn't actually collect the 100K from the bondsmen - there have been big scandals about how courts have been derelict in their duties over that

This is a big problem and was in the paper a bunch here in Hawaii a while back.

There's that reality show with the guy Dog the Bounty hunter, who has a bail bond company. In the show, they are always yelling about how people are stealing from them when they jump and how they are gonna have to pay the money themselves.

It turns out that just isn't true. The bondsmen have an insurance company that backs them if someone skips. The court has a whole hearing process that the insurance company hires a well connected lawyer to attend. Recovering from the insurer is way too much work for the court and way to hard to beat. Because of this they just don't do anything.

Dog the bounty hunter's company had millions it owed because of jumpers that was just sitting there.

Aloha!