[Manwhore]

Hey fellas, I recently interviewed a lawyer and just DRILLED him for details on how to handle asshole cops trying to overstep your rights. It's a pretty sad state of affairs we're in when cops KNOWINGLY overstep your rights just because you let them, OR to practice their "compliance" skills.

We went over:
- Being pulled over for DUIs and what to say/not say
- When they come to your door (awesome stuff)
- Being pulled over for typical traffic stuff
- How to put the pressure back on THEM when they're being assholes
- A LOT more

Original article on my site is here: http://manwhore.org/knowyourrights

I'll attempt to directly put up the YouTube clips in this thread lol..

[Cincinnatus]

Gonna have to pour myself a couple of drinks, sit down, and peep these videos.

A few years ago I saw a video in which a cop lectured a classroom full of law students - it was well done. Off to search for that...

[Manwhore]

Ya I remember that one.. we get into more specific detail in this podcast tho. We put a LOT into planning this out. Plus I have a lot of very interesting real-world experience with which to draw from

[Screwston]

I don't really have time to focus and listen to an hour and half worth of youtube clips. Who's going to summarize everything in them...

[Manwhore]

I dunno mang.. there's a lot of small details that are actually a big deal. Really important topic too

[Chad Daring]

After going the the process of a DWI and now working on coming out the other end and talking to a lot of people, lawyers included, the biggest piece of advice I was given for "if this happens again" KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Say nothing. As soon as they being questioning you, tell them you'd like to speak to a lawyer before you go any further.

[R Smoov]

Houston, I got you bro. Here's a summary of what most of their conversation touched on.

What to do when police are at your door

Well first, Gunnar Rosenquist had began to explain that you have the right not to open your door for the police. If the police wanted to get in your house they either
A) Would have a warrant to search you anyways.
B) They'd do it already.
C) You obviously are doing something crime related (destroying evidence, beating someone).

In plain view Rosenquist explains that you do not have to open the door if the police are knocking on it. They should be able to see through plain view what's going on in the house.

When they come to your door (Party Edition)


So Rosenquist states again that you do not have to open your door for the police again. Having a lot of people in your room isn't. But at a party, its illegal to have very loud music as you are disturbing the peace. This still does not give them the right to come inside your room to check anything. Turn the loud music down and talk to them through the door.

Example Scenario:
You're having a party and you hear the knocking on your door. And its obvious its the police at this point.
DON'T OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR AND TURN THE MUSIC DOWN. Instead talk to them through the door like this.

You: "Who are you are you and what do you want?"
Officer: "Police officer [blah blah], we've received complaints about the music."
You: "Ok, the music is turned down, anything else?"

Optional: If you have two laptops with Skype or any vid chat connected to it, place one outside at the end of the hall and keep the other one in your room/wherever. There you have some surveilance of your own and you can see when they are coming down. I've seen this happen at some dorm parties on campus and its a very helpful way to monitor whats going on outside of the room.

When you or/friend leaves the party:
At this point, some people in the party are probably spooked out due to the police coming in. At this point a police officer might stop you to ask you questions about the party. Always ask if you are being detained. If you are not, then just say "thank you" and walk away.

Basically, If you throw a party, try to tell your party goers this so then they know they are okay throughout the situation. Hell post it on a wall near the exit. This would also be a good time to invest in a secondary exit and make sure your guests aren't rushing out

Scenario:
Officer: *Stops you from wherever you were going* "Hey can I talk to you for a minute? Whats your name whats going on in there?"
You: "Am I being detained?" or "Am I free to leave?"
Officer: "No you are not being detained, have a good evening" "Yes you are free to leave"
You: *Get the hell out of the scene*

After he says yes, roll out. Do not stay in the scene any longer. Its best for you to leave and don't come back.


If you are getting arrested:
In this case, don't say anything. Just say "lawyer" and shut the fuck up. They can use whatever you say against you. No scenarios on this case. It's plain and simple.


If they are trying to search/bust you:
If they want to check your bookbag, purse whatever they will ask you for consent. At that point, say no. But now Rosenquist and MW start to discuss on if their searching is starting to get really extreme. (i.e them sniffing your coffee cup in your car for alcohol o r destroying stuff.)

Say "I don't consent to any search" repeatedly, loudly and clearly. This will either shut them down and make them stop.

Eye contact:
Keep the eyes on the police officers, give them straight eye contact. For example: MW has been surrounded by 3 cops who wore sunglasses, but still continued to give them eye contact. Don't let those shades intimidate you. Look at them as if you'd look at someone else.

Being pulled over for DUIs and what to say/not say:
When being pulled over for DUIs be calm about it. Roll the window down and keep your hands in view where he can see them. This disarms him from thinking that you're going to shoot him, drive off, etc.

Don't: Say anything thats going to fuck you up. When they ask you questions such as "Do you know how fast you were going?", its obvious a shit-test.
Do: Say "I am not answering any questions. I would like to have a blood test. Lets go to the station or the hospital and lets take a blood test".

When they ask you to take a sobriety test or the breathalyzer, do NOT take it. Those tests were designed for you to fail and when's the last time you ever heard someone actually passing that test? These tests are highly inaccurate. And when you think about the blood test, it gives you time to sober up depending on how drunk you are because they are taking you somewhere.

Scenario:
Officer: *Pulls you over* Sir, we're investigating you because we think you are Driving Under the Influence (or whatever cops say)
You: *keeping your mouth shut*
Officer: *Asks/Tells you to do a sobriety/breathalyzer test"
You: ""I won't take a breathalyzer test or your field sobriety tests, I'll take a blood alcohol test that's my right."

Handling DMV and the license suspension
Get that notice sent in before the 10 days is up and work to get it handled. Plain in simple. Do not procrastinate on this!

Phones:
Once again, security of your phone is crucial. If you don't have one already, try to get a smart phone. Start putting a passcode or a password in order to protect your privacy from their eyes. Be prepared to lose your phone because it might happen.

How to put the heat back to them:
Say:"May I have your badge number?"
Or MW's line "Oh great, I can't wait to see you in court"

Ask them this always even if your passenger is the one that started the crime. So then that keeps them on their toes on whatever they do.

Gunnar also has a good law site for himself:
http://www.gunnarlaw.com
He can basically tell/help you if your lawyer is going to help fight for you or if hes a shit head. Or if you're in cali, he could support you in some situations. He seems like a chill dude as well.
----
Does he know you recorded him MW? Don't wanna get sued by a lawyer now :V

But after reading and summarizing all of that, I will say you did a good job. I might have to keep this summary somewhere stashed so I can handle myself when the boys and blue come for me.

[Manwhore]

ABSOLUTELY.

However it's somewhat hard to know exactly how to apply that. E.g. you can't just sit in your car with the windows up and ignore them, or refuse to give them your license.

Listen to the videos for specifics. It was a fucking AWESOME podcast, I learned a ton.

(05-17-2012 03:17 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

After going the the process of a DWI and now working on coming out the other end and talking to a lot of people, lawyers included, the biggest piece of advice I was given for "if this happens again" KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Say nothing. As soon as they being questioning you, tell them you'd like to speak to a lawyer before you go any further.

[Manwhore]

Lol yes Rosca he knew he was being recorded that was the point of the podcast

You got a couple minor details mixed up in your summary, the most important one that stood out to me was, don't actually VOLUNTEER or start the interaction with police with, "I want to take a blood test" (if you're being pulled over for a possible DUI). Wait for them to ask YOU to take a test, then simply say "I won't take a breathalyzer test or your field sobriety tests, I'll take a blood alcohol test that's my right." If you start OFF the interaction saying you'll take a blood test they'll look at you like you're retarded. That's practically an admission of guilt. They'll just start hounding you over WHY you want to take a blood test.

[Screwston]

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

[Chad Daring]

(05-17-2012 04:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

Lock everything. They cant make you unlock something thats locked without a lot of hassle.

[MikeCF]

(05-17-2012 04:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

No.

The system is rigged.

Every police encounter - even one where you "flex your rights" - presupposes that the cop will obey the very lawys he has sworn to uphold.

Which means you're depending on a cop's grace.

Unless you can prove on video that a copy is lying, no judge will protect your rights.

I advise people to avoid police at all costs.

I recently witnessed a crime. I left the scene before police came. I will not voluntarily interact with police under any circumstances.

If I am pulled over and he starts asking me questions, I ask, "Am I free to leave?" If he asks to search my car, "Am I free to leave?"

I have this attitude even though I don't do anything illegal. I don't drink and drive. I don't ever have drugs in my car.

It doesn't matter if you're a law-abiding citizen.

Hell, there are some headlines about a guy having his money stolen by police. (He had a lot of cash on him because he wanted to buy a car.)

Avoid cops at all costs.

[R Smoov]

(05-17-2012 04:31 PM)Manwhore Wrote:  

Lol yes Rosca he knew he was being recorded that was the point of the podcast

You got a couple minor details mixed up in your summary, the most important one that stood out to me was, don't actually VOLUNTEER or start the interaction with police with, "I want to take a blood test" (if you're being pulled over for a possible DUI). Wait for them to ask YOU to take a test, then simply say "I won't take a breathalyzer test or your field sobriety tests, I'll take a blood alcohol test that's my right." If you start OFF the interaction saying you'll take a blood test they'll look at you like you're retarded. That's practically an admission of guilt. They'll just start hounding you over WHY you want to take a blood test.

No prob man, I'll edit it for more accuracy anything else I'm missing or leaving out?

[Manwhore]

Geezez christ puss you sound like a woman, stop being an alarmist. I don't know why your member status says that but you're about as alpha as a bowl of cheerios.

Read this fellas: http://manwhore.org/laid-chased-cops-caught-act

Roosh or anyone else, sorry for the flaming but when guys get hysterical it's pathetic, especially when they spread destructive information.

(05-17-2012 04:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 04:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

No.

The system is rigged.

Every police encounter - even one where you "flex your rights" - presupposes that the cop will obey the very lawys he has sworn to uphold.

Which means you're depending on a cop's grace.

Unless you can prove on video that a copy is lying, no judge will protect your rights.

[MikeCF]

If I were pulled over for speeding and was actually speeding, here is exactly what I'd say:

"I wasn't really paying attention. I'm not going to b.s. you. I wasn't paying attention and probably was going over the limit."

Why?

Because that attitude - although incriminating - will lead to the interaction with the cop being terminated.

I don't care about getting a speeding ticket.

I do care about a cop stealing my money or planting drugs.

Cops will do both if you piss them off.

The only difference between a cop and a common criminal is the uniform, badge, and gun.

When he asks to search the car, I'd say, "No offense but I'm one of those weird civil libertarians. I know you have a hard job and I'm not trying to be a pain, but I'd rather not."

Basically, I am trying to end the transaction while being as cool/ass kissing as possible.

[MikeCF]

I have credentials outside of this forum - credentials pretty widely known.

So your insults only embarrass yourself.

(05-17-2012 04:51 PM)Manwhore Wrote:  

Geezez christ puss you sound like a woman, stop being an alarmist. I don't know why your member status says that but you're about as alpha as a bowl of cheerios.

Read this fellas: http://manwhore.org/laid-chased-cops-caught-act

Roosh or anyone else, sorry for the flaming but when guys get hysterical it's pathetic, especially when they spread destructive information.

(05-17-2012 04:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 04:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

No.

The system is rigged.

Every police encounter - even one where you "flex your rights" - presupposes that the cop will obey the very lawys he has sworn to uphold.

Which means you're depending on a cop's grace.

Unless you can prove on video that a copy is lying, no judge will protect your rights.

[Chad Daring]

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

If I were pulled over for speeding and was actually speeding, here is exactly what I'd say:

"I wasn't really paying attention. I'm not going to b.s. you. I wasn't paying attention and probably was going over the limit."

Why?

Because that attitude - although incriminating - will lead to the interaction with the cop being terminated.

I don't care about getting a speeding ticket.

I do care about a cop stealing my money or planting drugs.

Cops will do both if you piss them off.

The only difference between a cop and a common criminal is the uniform, badge, and gun.

When he asks to search the car, I'd say, "No offense but I'm one of those weird civil libertarians. I know you have a hard job and I'm not trying to be a pain, but I'd rather not."

Basically, I am trying to end the transaction while being as cool/ass kissing as possible.

When I was pulled over this is what I did. I think I was so calm and cool about the whole thing that it freaked the guy out. The fact I was an entire head taller, and about 70 pounds bigger probably didn't help lol, but yeah I was as cool with the cop as possible.

While I was cuffed to teh table in the station waiting for my test results we started shooting the shit, told him I was a chef, talked a bit about that.


Jump to the day of my trial. The cop vouched for how well I handled the situation and it helped get me off with damn near nothing.

[Manwhore]

(05-17-2012 04:57 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I have credentials outside of this forum - credentials pretty widely known.

So your insults only embarrass yourself.

I don't care who you think you are, that was silly bullshit. Kudos if you have other parts of your life in order, but you need to take another look at that belief system.

[Manwhore]

What were you pulled over for? I'm assuming DUI

(05-17-2012 04:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

When I was pulled over this is what I did. I think I was so calm and cool about the whole thing that it freaked the guy out. The fact I was an entire head taller, and about 70 pounds bigger probably didn't help lol, but yeah I was as cool with the cop as possible.

Jump to the day of my trial. The cop vouched for how well I handled the situation and it helped get me off with damn near nothing.

[Chad Daring]

Yep, DWI in Maryland is driving while intoxicated, its the DUIs little brother.

Also, some friendly advice, if you're a new guy, dont come into a forum guns blazing and acting like you've got the biggest dick in the room, especially on matters of opinion. Just doesn't come of well.

[Manwhore]

I'm trying to add value to the forum while not stepping on Roosh's toes. I'm an ex-military officer and a top dating coach, I just don't advertise it. MikeCF has an issue

If you've listened to the podcast I'd be curious to see if you'd go back and handle things differently. Many of the details covered in the podcast actually go into how the cop wouldn't even get a chance at enough evidence to arrest/convict you.

[Chad Daring]

I would've just shut up and not answered questions, how it would've ended, I dont know, but I definitely would've acted differently.

And I get you're trying to be helpful but HEY I'M AWESOME SO YOU'RE WRONG doesn't make anyone want to listen to you, which would be a shame if you genuinely have something good to say.

[H H]

(05-17-2012 04:51 PM)Manwhore Wrote:  

Geezez christ puss you sound like a woman, stop being an alarmist. I don't know why your member status says that but you're about as alpha as a bowl of cheerios.

Read this fellas: http://manwhore.org/laid-chased-cops-caught-act

Roosh or anyone else, sorry for the flaming but when guys get hysterical it's pathetic, especially when they spread destructive information.

(05-17-2012 04:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 04:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Is there really any way to avoid getting the car searched if the pig wants to?

No.

The system is rigged.

Every police encounter - even one where you "flex your rights" - presupposes that the cop will obey the very lawys he has sworn to uphold.

Which means you're depending on a cop's grace.

Unless you can prove on video that a copy is lying, no judge will protect your rights.

you're trolling dude. MikeCF has given a valid point of view and good info. Constantly asking "Am I free to leave?" throughout the interaction is a good defensive tactic to get out of the situation. You can rebut what he said but don't come in here and insult a senior member.

[Manwhore]

I think I was a little harsh with the guy for sure, but his response was completely ignorant and inflammatory. It was SUCH bad info. I'll break his response down into why it is wrong.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

"I wasn't really paying attention. I'm not going to b.s. you. I wasn't paying attention and probably was going over the limit."

This is an admission of guilt. Do not do this. You are only incriminating yourself and are then entitled to a ticket, whether the officer even had proof of you speeding or not. I have been pulled over and when I asked to see the officer's proof and he couldn't display it, OR, it was in contrast to what my radar detector said, he simply told me to slow down and drove off.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I don't care about getting a speeding ticket.

I do care about a cop stealing my money or planting drugs.

Cops will do both if you piss them off.

The only difference between a cop and a common criminal is the uniform, badge, and gun.

What the.. fuck??

This is an outrageous statement. It's paranoid and delusional.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

When he asks to search the car, I'd say, "No offense but I'm one of those weird civil libertarians. I know you have a hard job and I'm not trying to be a pain, but I'd rather not."

Basically, I am trying to end the transaction while being as cool/ass kissing as possible.

This is wrong, this will not end the interaction it will only make him more suspicious and give him reason to keep questioning you. E.g. "You'd rather have me not? Why not? What do you have to hide. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem letting me have a look around."

The proper statement to make here, put forth by thousands of sources on the web and in real life statements by lawyers AND officers is, "No I do not consent to any searches." This cuts the interaction short. Done. They know you know your rights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

There's a perfect example.

[Beyond Borders]

(05-18-2012 01:56 PM)Manwhore Wrote:  

I think I was a little harsh with the guy for sure, but his response was completely ignorant and inflammatory. It was SUCH bad info. I'll break his response down into why it is wrong.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

"I wasn't really paying attention. I'm not going to b.s. you. I wasn't paying attention and probably was going over the limit."

This is an admission of guilt. Do not do this. You are only incriminating yourself and are then entitled to a ticket, whether the officer even had proof of you speeding or not. I have been pulled over and when I asked to see the officer's proof and he couldn't display it, OR, it was in contrast to what my radar detector said, he simply told me to slow down and drove off.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I don't care about getting a speeding ticket.

I do care about a cop stealing my money or planting drugs.

Cops will do both if you piss them off.

The only difference between a cop and a common criminal is the uniform, badge, and gun.

What the.. fuck??

This is an outrageous statement. It's paranoid and delusional.

(05-17-2012 04:52 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

When he asks to search the car, I'd say, "No offense but I'm one of those weird civil libertarians. I know you have a hard job and I'm not trying to be a pain, but I'd rather not."

Basically, I am trying to end the transaction while being as cool/ass kissing as possible.

This is wrong, this will not end the interaction it will only make him more suspicious and give him reason to keep questioning you. E.g. "You'd rather have me not? Why not? What do you have to hide. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't have a problem letting me have a look around."

The proper statement to make here, put forth by thousands of sources on the web and in real life statements by lawyers AND officers is, "No I do not consent to any searches." This cuts the interaction short. Done. They know you know your rights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

There's a perfect example.

While I wouldn't have come at MikeCF like that, I've got to back Manwhore up on this.

You never admit guilt to a cop...ever. And cops do back down a good deal when they realize you know your rights - I know this from experience from multiple instances where other people would have gone straight to jail or at the very least been subjected to illegal searches. Where I grew up it's not common to be searched unnecessarily.

If anyone wants to know how best to deal with cops and excercise your rights, look up a book called "The Outlaw's Bible."

While written by a criminal doing time, the guy knows his shit and has done his research, and he breaks down exactly what it takes to stand up for yourself and not be bullied and pushed around by America's law enforcement.

Why should a non-criminal read something like this?

Because our law enforcement does not play by the rules, and their major advantage is that the vast majority of us do not even know the rules. Their whole game is deceiving you and taking advantage of your ignorance in order to get what they know you're "hiding," and their entire paradigm is that "everyone is guilty." Ordinary citizens do end up victims quite often. The authorities do make mistakes, and they're not likely to admit it when they do.

Due to the fact that our criminal justice system is in no way perfect, knowing best how to protect yourself is invaluable information and can quite possibly save you a ton of money, time, and suffering.

Educate yourself. It's worth it.