[Alfonzo]

You have a good built right now . In my opinion you should stop your muscle mass plan now and start doing martial arts and push your self . Your definetly not in ''game shape'' with your kind of training . That's why You should start doing conditioning and martial arts . Being bigger now would be a waste of time in my opinion and don't be another one blind by the hulk tempation .

[MidniteSpecial]

I hate to give away all the secrets but here is what you are missing - SPRINTS! Sprints get you jacked and ripped at the same time and they release natural HGH up to 500%

Its very easy - Twice a week for about twenty minutes. You sprint anywhere from 10-30 seconds...I do 100 yards or as nfl heads like to call them "gassers". And than you rest about 1-2 minutes in between, and by rest I mean walk...don't just stand there...I do 10 sets of that, so you basically run 1000 yards. Raises test, promotes fast twitch muscle growth, strengthens immunity, gives you good energy levels, and keeps you young.

And about the mass tech. I've never taken mass tech so I have no opinion on it, I'm sure its great....but you can naturally create your own mass shakes and eat right to gain with good complex carbs. Such as yams and sweet potatoes with raw olive oil poured over them. I also like huge bowls of white rice drenched in raw olive oil. Take Into consideration I rarely eat dairy, never eat sugar, and never eat gluten or processed flours. You can also make a 6 egg omlette with brocolli and bacon pan fried in butter and than dress it with olive oil.

Here's a good mass protein shake I make...it varies day to day with the ingredients but today it looks like this.

1 can of organic coconut milk
2 bannanas
Big scoop of raw organic almond butter
2-3 tablespoons of black strap molasses
2 scoops maca powder
1 teaspoon maple syrup
1 big scoop of whey protein powder

[Lukey]

(04-10-2012 08:08 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

I hate to give away all the secrets but here is what you are missing - SPRINTS! Sprints get you jacked and ripped at the same time and they release natural HGH up to 500%

Its very easy - Twice a week for about twenty minutes. You sprint anywhere from 10-30 seconds...I do 100 yards or as nfl heads like to call them "gassers". And than you rest about 1-2 minutes in between, and by rest I mean walk...don't just stand there...I do 10 sets of that, so you basically run 1000 yards. Raises test, promotes fast twitch muscle growth, strengthens immunity, gives you good energy levels, and keeps you young.

Sounds like a bit of broscience. Do you have any articles, studies or the like that you can link us to?

[Cr33pin]

I started mark rippetoe starting strength monday. Therefore today i have another work including more squats... im so sore today from squats i could barely sitdown an then get up off the toliet. How am i supposed to do squats again. Doing squats 3 out of 5 days seems a bit out of control.

[Deluge]

(04-11-2012 12:02 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

I started mark rippetoe starting strength monday. Therefore today i have another work including more squats... im so sore today from squats i could barely sitdown an then get up off the toliet. How am i supposed to do squats again. Doing squats 3 out of 5 days seems a bit out of control.

This will sound crazy but in my experience if I'm feeling really sore after a work out, then after the next training session my legs will feel less sore than I if I hadn't worked out at all. After a while I completely stop feeling sore after sessions.

[WanderingSoul]

(04-11-2012 01:55 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(04-11-2012 12:02 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

I started mark rippetoe starting strength monday. Therefore today i have another work including more squats... im so sore today from squats i could barely sitdown an then get up off the toliet. How am i supposed to do squats again. Doing squats 3 out of 5 days seems a bit out of control.

This will sound crazy but in my experience if I'm feeling really sore after a work out, then after the next training session my legs will feel less sore than I if I hadn't worked out at all. After a while I completely stop feeling sore after sessions.

This. I did Starting Strength for just under 3 months while also training Jiu Jitsu 4x a week. When you first start you can barley walk. Then after a week or so it's no big deal. Your body adapts VERY quickly as a beginning lifter, which is why you are able to squat 3x a week and add weight each time. Don't cut back to only 2 sessions a week or anything like that. Take it from me, the program is 110% legit and HUNDREDS of people less athletic than yourself have made huge gains by sticking to it. Just check Rips forum.

A few tips from someone who has been there:
1. EAT! If you have trouble eating a lot of meals, drink a lot of whole milk. Don't worry about getting fat, in your beginning phases your body is going to need so many calories you won't get fat from this but you will gain a ton of muscle, especially in your legs.

2. Squat and deadlift barefoot or in some Chuck Taylors. Don't wear running shoes. They have a high heel that is unstable.

3. Don't modify the program.

4. Start out by adding 10lbs per squat session as directed. Your body will adapt very quickly to the load and you will get better form each time so you can sustain this for a couple of weeks usually.

5. It is better to drop down to 5lb increases sooner rather than later.

Good luck man!

And I'll respond to your PM tonight after BJJ.

[Cr33pin]

I hate you so much at the moment RioNomad haha. I already swore off the gym today as i can barely walk up the 3 flights of stairs to my apartment an was questioning this program all together... but after reading your post im headed to the gym so i can stick with it...

[MidniteSpecial]

If you are very sore eat 2-3 bannana right after workout. Fruit is very good for not being sore the next day. So are sweet potatoes.

Here is one link for sprinting and how it naturally releases HGH.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/phil3.htm

It's not "broscience" Just look at the body of a sprinter and compare it to a long distance runner. It is common sense. And GL!

MARK RIPPETOE IS THE TRUTH BTW...THIS GOES FOR ALL LIFTS NOT JUST THE SQUAT, IF YOU WANT TO BENCH MORE YOU GOTTA BENCH EVERY DAY, IF YOU WANT TO PRESS MORE, PRESS EVERY DAY....THAT ONCE A WEEK STUFF IS BS... SQUATS WILL MAKE ALL YOUR LIFTS GO UP TO THATS THE BEAUTY OF THEM!

[reaper23]

(04-11-2012 12:02 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

I started mark rippetoe starting strength monday. Therefore today i have another work including more squats... im so sore today from squats i could barely sitdown an then get up off the toliet. How am i supposed to do squats again. Doing squats 3 out of 5 days seems a bit out of control.

do it dude. i am a living testament to starting strength. i did the whole thing. followed the program and did GOMAD. i went from 185 squats to 345. deadlift from 200 to 435. over head press from 115 to 165. power clean from 135 to 215. bench from 185 to 235 (my weak spot)

just DTFP

(do the fucking program)

[WanderingSoul]

(04-11-2012 06:14 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

I hate you so much at the moment RioNomad haha. I already swore off the gym today as i can barely walk up the 3 flights of stairs to my apartment an was questioning this program all together... but after reading your post im headed to the gym so i can stick with it...

Yeah man, it's tough lol. It is money though. Stick with it and you will see crazy results. Just make sure you eat enough.

[mikeymike]

(04-11-2012 08:45 AM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

If you are very sore eat 2-3 bannana right after workout. Fruit is very good for not being sore the next day. So are sweet potatoes.

Here is one link for sprinting and how it naturally releases HGH.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/phil3.htm

It's not "broscience" Just look at the body of a sprinter and compare it to a long distance runner. It is common sense. And GL!

MARK RIPPETOE IS THE TRUTH BTW...THIS GOES FOR ALL LIFTS NOT JUST THE SQUAT, IF YOU WANT TO BENCH MORE YOU GOTTA BENCH EVERY DAY, IF YOU WANT TO PRESS MORE, PRESS EVERY DAY....THAT ONCE A WEEK STUFF IS BS... SQUATS WILL MAKE ALL YOUR LIFTS GO UP TO THATS THE BEAUTY OF THEM!

So cns recovery and rest to allow the muscle time to repair and grow is also bs? You're trying to tell me if I rack the bench with 350 pounds, the next day I'm doing my chest good by racking that same 350 and going again and everday...you're insane and asking for injury. You can train a bodypart more than once a week but for optimal performance, growth and recovery if you're attacking bodyparts anything more than a couple times a week and using any real weights your body will not be ready to perform upto it's best ability. I'll have to look into his stuff when I have more time but you're making it sound like he's advocating full chest workouts everyday, or full leg workouts everyday for weeks on end, and that just sounds crazy and dangerous. I'll add the caveat that I need to read about this before making a better assessment as I've heard great things about Rippetoe just never had time to investigate his books and methods.

[MidniteSpecial]

He's not. I am. And I'm not talking 7 days a week...and I'm not talking max weight max reps there's a science to it. I'm on my phone I will post link when I get home. Mark advocates squat 3 times a week with weekend rest which gives you huge gains unlike someone who does legs once a week. You get what I'm saying now?

I can use an example from my friend who played d1 football and won a bench press comp in his weight division....the kid literally benched 5 times a week...he benched more than anyone and had a larger chest than anyone on our team.

[mikeymike]

(04-11-2012 06:02 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

He's not. I am. And I'm not talking 7 days a week...and I'm not talking max weight max reps there's a science to it. I'm on my phone I will post link when I get home. Mark advocates squat 3 times a week with weekend rest which gives you huge gains unlike someone who does legs once a week. You get what I'm saying now?

I can use an example from my friend who played d1 football and won a bench press comp in his weight division....the kid literally benched 5 times a week...he benched more than anyone and had a larger chest than anyone on our team.

I get what you're saying, I agree with Mark, legs can handle the load of more than once a week, 3 times a week may be pushing it for me but I aim for twice so it's not a stretch depending on how many exercises i'll read more into it, sounds interesting.

As for your friend, individual examples are hardly proof, you need a study to back that kind of info up, some guys are just freaks of nature and can do that sort of thing while others in the same routine will end up in the hospital...I'm interested to hear your take but I hope you got more than just your friend cause I know a few powerlifters that couple have been tops in their 220 classes with ease and a couple compete higher up but I don't think they're placing in the top 3, I'll double check but I've racked with them a few times and it's scary but I'm like 90% sure they don't go over twice a week on any one part

[reaper23]

its an A B split workout.

A = squat bench power clean
B = squat overhead press deadlift

first week A B A, then B A B

pretty simple

always add weight

it is TRUTH. time tested. no doubts

[mikeymike]

(04-11-2012 07:01 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

its an A B split workout.

A = squat bench power clean
B = squat overhead press deadlift

first week A B A, then B A B

pretty simple

always add weight

it is TRUTH. time tested. no doubts

so just 3 lifting days a week, that incorporate the entire body and compound lifts...solid and well constructed...the way it was represented didn't read that way, but loads of rest and recovery on a 3 day workweek, will help build a great base. This, it is truth thing tho man a lot of you guys get tied up into only one way to do things...this is A TRUTH...lots of ways to build muscle, any routine will get stagnant after a while, change is good, keep the muscles guessing and keep growing.

[MidniteSpecial]

Mikeymike here is a link... its called compound overload

http://fitnessblackbook.com/muscle-build...-strength/

And most guys who are "freaks of nature" don't have mind frames of "3 times a week might be to much for me". They just go balls to the wall and don't give a fuck about what anyone says. Rules are meant to be broken and so are records. But most importantly find what works for you! I'm not gonna knock your style or method if you get results. But squatting heavy 3 times a week made all my lifts go up and when I experimented compound overload I broke personal records.

[Virgle Kent]

(04-08-2012 09:41 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

@Virgle Kent

I'm just wondering, do you drink? I'm going through this realization that keeping fit and growing muscles moves in the opposite direction of having a bohemian lifestyle and being a drinker. I find it very hard to reconcile the two, as I see it, it is nearly impossible.

I can either go out like 3-4 times a week and mess my workout routine (by being very tired from lack of good sleep) AND having that extra calorie intake because of the alcohol, while playing the numbers game and having more chances with the ladies.

OR I focus heavily on my routine while developing good habits but going out considerably less (I've been going out like once maybe twice a week recently, and I am in essence a night gamer) with minimum alcohol intake if at all (meaning I don't get any buzz, meaning it takes much longer, sometimes at all to get "in the zone", the right mood).

Somehow, while you are focusing on your workout and start seeing results, you get more confident and balsy. Yet, for me it just takes a night (really) of going off the charts by having some, or more than some drinks than I ought to to feel a massive difference on the next day. I basically wake up feeling like a blob.

Alcohol is the nemesis of working out.

Do you have a say on this?

Yes, Everything you just described is true. I think when you're first learning game you will need more time out to practice what you've learned and develop your skill.

Alcohol really fucks up my workouts sometimes. If I go hard on a Saturday like really hard, Sunday is spent recovering (not eating laying on the couch) then Monday I have a shitty workout. Also I think with having to work and living out in Virginia right now it's easy for me to get off work and go straight to the gym at least Monday- Thursday.

Finally in the end, I've found a balance of Winter with the cold and short daylight probably five days a week through early Spring. Then late Spring/Summer I cut back to four days a week, skipping now and then to hit up a happy hour or date on Thursday night. If a skip another night making it up on Saturday morning.

Bottom line, the older you get the worse alcohol will effect your workout.

[Virgle Kent]

(04-09-2012 03:08 PM)Skyhigh Wrote:  

(04-06-2012 12:39 PM)Virgle Kent Wrote:  

(04-06-2012 10:10 AM)Walnuts Wrote:  

VK you're beast! I'm 5'10, 160, you're an inspiration.
I'm having trouble gaining weight, think I might get that mass tech if you vouch for it.

Mind if I ask what your numbers are?
Bench press, squats and deadlifts?

NP
Don't know if you're asking about maxing or what I do regularly but Bench at the end of my work out I go for 315 for five

Squats at the end of the last two sets I did 315 for three (legs were my weakest point and it took a long time to get there during this 14 weeks.

Deadlifts at the end 295 for 3 ( again legs are my weakest point but took 14 weeks to get to that much for me)

I'm surprised your deadlifts are that low. I only lifted for a year I'm almost at your deadlift. I find it hard to believe you lifted 12 years and only can deadlift 295 for 3 reps. I'm assuming you only added deadlifts just now because that is the only explanation.

Yup just started really dead lifting this year

[Cr33pin]

(04-11-2012 07:01 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

its an A B split workout.

A = squat bench power clean
B = squat overhead press deadlift

first week A B A, then B A B

pretty simple

always add weight

it is TRUTH. time tested. no doubts

theres so many diffrent variations of this work out
the one i found an used is

A = Squat, bench, dead lift.. optional 2 sets of 8 dips
B = Squat, shoulder press, power clean.. optional 8 overhand chin ups

[mikeymike]

(04-11-2012 08:25 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Mikeymike here is a link... its called compound overload

http://fitnessblackbook.com/muscle-build...-strength/

And most guys who are "freaks of nature" don't have mind frames of "3 times a week might be to much for me". They just go balls to the wall and don't give a fuck about what anyone says. Rules are meant to be broken and so are records. But most importantly find what works for you! I'm not gonna knock your style or method if you get results. But squatting heavy 3 times a week made all my lifts go up and when I experimented compound overload I broke personal records.

for sure bro, say it all the time, many ways to skin a cat, if you're a genetic freak and can go 5 times a week do it, I know when I tried to push beyond 2 times a week on some bodyparts I was a mess, took too much of a toll, some guys just recover better and can handle the load better, in the end it's about results so do what works for you. I haven't gone over twice a week on legs tho, something to play with for sure, my legs are a strong point to begin with, years of hockey and tennis so never felt like I needed to go the extra mile but it's probably the one part I would feel confident pushing past twice a week, leg workouts just suck tho, not fun at all lol

thanks for the link bro.

[reaper23]

(04-12-2012 03:18 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(04-11-2012 07:01 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

its an A B split workout.

A = squat bench power clean
B = squat overhead press deadlift

first week A B A, then B A B

pretty simple

always add weight

it is TRUTH. time tested. no doubts

theres so many diffrent variations of this work out
the one i found an used is

A = Squat, bench, dead lift.. optional 2 sets of 8 dips
B = Squat, shoulder press, power clean.. optional 8 overhand chin ups

yeah dude i might have gotten the shoulder press/bench days mixed up but it doesnt matter

the key is squatting every three days

and then resting all weekend.

and you have to EAT

and you have to SLEEP 8 hours min.

and you have to DTFP

which means adding incremental weight every single time until you fail three days on a weight. then back off by about 10-15% and move back up again

[Cr33pin]

Ugh... its 630 am... im hung over, feeling like shit... but going to the gym.
leaving in 2 hours for some beach fairly far away with some guys i met at my jiu jitsu class here

im sticking with it, but i feel like my workout is gonna suffer today cause of my drinking. plus i will prally be wore out an sore while im at the beach... but i feel good about sticking with the program even if my work out will be a little hung over. i could have easily skipped today.

[dk902]

Excellent work VK.

You still look pretty cut in the second picture considering you're putting on mass.

Care to break down your diet a bit more? I've just bought some mass gainer, I've always dieted to get gains, but after reading your story I was interested in using a mass gainer.

Do you still eat like a horse, or 3 square good solid meals when along side with your mass gainer?

Did you also use any type of whey or just purely use the mass gainer?

Thanks.

[that guy]

Virgle, thanks for the info. I'm curious as to what your calorie consumption is on a workout day not counting the shakes you take. Because for someone you size my guess would be the shake alone would be about 1/3 to 1/2 of your daily calories. Unless if you just naturally have a crazy metabolism or move around alot when your not working out.