[Cattle Rustler]

(08-19-2013 09:48 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 06:29 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 06:07 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 04:54 PM)portofmanteau Wrote:  

Inflation is roughly 30%/year, so prices would be outpacing the official currency exchange. If you go to Buenos Aires, do not take money out of an ATM or use your credit cards; bring hard currency and exchange with a private citizen or an unofficial exchange house.

The unofficial rate is tracked daily here, along with blue chip swaps, official rate, etc.:

http://www.ambito.com/economia/mercados/monedas/dolar/

OMG... the official exchange 1USD=5.55 ARS but the black market rate is UP TO 8.55 !!! that's almost a 50% mark -up !!!

would it make sense it live in BA buying peses on the black market ??? or is the inflation just too damned much ???

It would make sense to live in BA and thrive off the black market. The question is...how will you get away with it?

The gubbmint is going hardcore on catching black market traders. Searches on entry points, money-sniffing dogs, etc.

but are they going to care about small amounts? just enough Greenbacks to get you through a 2-week period?

Not in that situation, it works perfectly. Just make business with known contacts.

I thought you were talking about staying in BsAs long-term and getting a gig as a black market currency exchanger.

[GameTheory]

^^^ oh i see. my bad

i meant living like a Bohemian, running game, answering to no one, avoiding N.America for as long as possible.

ohhhhhhh yeahhhhhhh !!!!

[Vampire]

I was in Buenos Aires in March. The official exchange rate was about 5 pesos per $1. You could get as much as 8 pesos per $1 on the black market. (It might be as high as 9:1 now.) Just make sure you get rid of all of your Argentine pesos before leaving Argentina, even if you have to buy overpriced souvenirs at the airport. The vast majority of currency exchanges and banks here (US) don't want to have anything to do with Argentine currency because it devalues so quickly.

Alot of stores will gladly accept US dollars and Euros. The black market seemed to do exchanges for many currencies: US Dollars, Euros, Brazilian Real, Canadian Dollars, Mexican Pesos. There are lots of guys willing to do exchanges in Microcentro, especially Calle Florida. They will be usually saying, "Cambio, cambio, cambio" as people walk by.

A meal at McDonalds in Buenos Aires came out to around $10. For comparison, it was about $11 at a McDonalds in Montevideo and in the US you'll pay around $7. I hit up the TGI Fridays in Puerto Madero a few times. I got a full plate of food and two beers for about $15-16 I think.

Somebody earlier asked how the economy in Argentina is affecting neighboring Uruguay. Uruguay is very backwater compared to Argentina, but definately capitalist compared to socialist Argentina. Uruguayan banks are doing pretty good, as around a million dollars per day leaks out of Argentina into Uruguayan banks.

In Uruguay, ATM machines pay out Uruguayan pesos and American dollars. You can get up to 300 dollars per ATM swipe. The ATM's in Colonia del Sacramento have long lines of people trying to get dollars before taking the ferry to Buenos Aires. I decided to snag another $300 before crossing the Rio de la Plata. The guy in front of me swiped his card five times and got $1,500. Argentines will take the ferry across the River Plate just to use the ATM's in Colonia.

[Prosal]

(08-19-2013 06:07 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

OMG... the official exchange 1USD=5.55 ARS but the black market rate is UP TO 8.55 !!! that's almost a 50% mark -up !!!

By applying those same 50% to the official Euro exchange rate (7.5 ARS), it gives a black market rate of 11 ARS for 1 €. Interesting.

[Prosal]

(08-19-2013 11:23 PM)Vampire Wrote:  

I hit up the TGI Fridays in Puerto Madero a few times. I got a full plate of food and two beers for about $15-16 I think.

It's not even the price for two beers in Paris. Vampire, what about the costs of drinks in clubs, in Palermo Viejo bars, of taxis, of upmarket parillas, ect nowadays ?

I have been married to a porteña and would love to go back to Argentina. FSU women are my n°1 women in the world, but argentinas are definitely my n°2 - and indonesians my n°3.

[portofmanteau]

(08-20-2013 02:07 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 06:07 PM)GameTheory Wrote:  

OMG... the official exchange 1USD=5.55 ARS but the black market rate is UP TO 8.55 !!! that's almost a 50% mark -up !!!

By applying those same 50% to the official Euro exchange rate (7.5 ARS), it gives a black market rate of 11 ARS for 1 €. Interesting.

The euro tends to be worth slightly less than USD, but it looks like right now that's about right - ~11.5 ARS/euro black market rate.

http://dolarblue.net/

In general, USD is the secondary currency of Argentina, and anything else is less desirable. This has been true since before Peron's time.

[portofmanteau]

(08-19-2013 11:23 PM)Vampire Wrote:  

A meal at McDonalds in Buenos Aires came out to around $10. For comparison, it was about $11 at a McDonalds in Montevideo and in the US you'll pay around $7. I hit up the TGI Fridays in Puerto Madero a few times. I got a full plate of food and two beers for about $15-16 I think.

I understand the attraction of the "Big Mac Index", but it's not a realistic comparison. McDonalds is some of the cheapest food you can get in the US; in developing countries, this is not the case, and in many places McDonalds is well out of most peoples' price range. Working class people eat choripan, milanesas, pasta. US$10 in Argentina (~85 pesos) will get you a real meal with wine in a good restaurant in Argentina, no need to go to McDonalds.

12 course tasting menu at Aramburu or La Vineria de Gualterio Bolivar (El Bulli trained chef) is around 340 pesos (US~$40). If you're going to Buenos Aires with USD, check these places out next time - TGI Fridays can wait until you're back in the US.

[Mekorig]

portofmanteau have ir right, avoid the fast-food chains. With the good exchamge ration tourist from the USa or EU have, you can get a very nice and good quality meal for the same price.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(08-19-2013 11:23 PM)Vampire Wrote:  

I hit up the TGI Fridays in Puerto Madero a few times. I got a full plate of food and two beers for about $15-16 I think.

Man, PM has one of the most epic all-you-can-eat steakhouses called Siga la Vaca. I don't know what prices are now but back when I was in Buenos Aires you could feast for that price I'm sure.

Speaking of McDonald's though, Buenos Aires is, coincidentally, home to the only "kosher" Mickey D's outside of Israel.

[Vampire]

(08-20-2013 02:23 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 11:23 PM)Vampire Wrote:  

I hit up the TGI Fridays in Puerto Madero a few times. I got a full plate of food and two beers for about $15-16 I think.

It's not even the price for two beers in Paris. Vampire, what about the costs of drinks in clubs, in Palermo Viejo bars, of taxis, of upmarket parillas, ect nowadays ?

I have been married to a porteña and would love to go back to Argentina. FSU women are my n°1 women in the world, but argentinas are definitely my n°2 - and indonesians my n°3.

I don't go to clubs; my drinking was done mostly in restaurants, cafes, bars, etc. A Quilmes draft was about $2-3. Imported beer like Heineken and Stella would be about $2 more. A good bottle of Malbec can be had for under 10 USD. Coming from Europe or the States, you might be tuned to think the cheaper the wine, the lower the quality, but that is not necessarily the case here. Most of my taxi trips were short, paid around $10 to run from one neighborhood to another. I did take one taxi from Microcentro to Ezeiza and that was about $35; I was expecting to pay more. City buses, colectivos, are dirt cheap (government subsidized?) and run 24/7/365.

+1 I love porteñas too. I have seen some negative comments about them on the forum (ie. hystericas) but had many great interactions myself. Even had several occasions where Argentine girls opened aggressively on me.

[solo]

I have a question regarding the cost of living/inflation/currency rate for anyone who feels qualified to answer. Does a high Argentina inflation rate means its cheaper for us foreigners there? I mean, a high inflation rate in Argentina means the Argentina peso is loosing value right? But as long as the inflations rate(s) in our respective countries are relatively lower, it means our currency will last longer and that the cost of living only really has gone up for Argentinians, right? (As long as we earn our income in currencies other than the Argentina peso). The inflation rate in Argentina should be cancelled out by a change in the currency rates, no?

Or what am I missing? I sometimes get confused thinking about scenarios involving the inflation and currency rates like this one.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(10-20-2013 01:02 PM)solo Wrote:  

I have a question regarding the cost of living/inflation/currency rate for anyone who feels qualified to answer. Does a high Argentina inflation rate means its cheaper for us foreigners there? I mean, a high inflation rate in Argentina means the Argentina peso is loosing value right? But as long as the inflations rate(s) in our respective countries are relatively lower, it means our currency will last longer and that the cost of living only really has gone up for Argentinians, right? (As long as we earn our income in currencies other than the Argentina peso). The inflation rate in Argentina should be cancelled out by a change in the currency rates, no?

Or what am I missing? I sometimes get confused thinking about scenarios involving the inflation and currency rates like this one.

Very good question.

I know about this firsthand from traveling to a country in Africa two years ago where inflation was rampant and the "official" currency exchange rate was rape.

What I did was utilize the black market exchange which was insanely generous, making everything far less expensive, especially as inflation went up.

The same is true for Argentina. As long as you're earning and have access to your dollars (never use a credit card) you will do fine.

You'll find money changers on Calle Florida in downtown Buenos Aires or some business merchants will accept dollars directly. The larger the denominations, the better the savings.

[BIGBOY]

Solo, it all depends on if the change in the xe rates keep up with the inflation rate. In the past couple years, inflation would go up by on average 30% per year and the dollar would gain around 10-15% in value against the peso, so yes things did get more expensive for dollar holders by 15%.

Last year, a black market for dollars has popped up (due to gov't restrictions) and now there is about a 40% spread between the official rate and black market rate. Last year the dollar gained 40% while the inflation rate was 30%. So the last year things have been getting cheaper if you exchange all your money on the black market. It can be pain because you need to bring cash with you if you want the best rate.

[speakeasy]

(10-20-2013 03:57 PM)BIGBOY Wrote:  

Solo, it all depends on if the change in the xe rates keep up with the inflation rate. In the past couple years, inflation would go up by on average 30% per year and the dollar would gain around 10-15% in value against the peso, so yes things did get more expensive for dollar holders by 15%.

Last year, a black market for dollars has popped up (due to gov't restrictions) and now there is about a 40% spread between the official rate and black market rate. Last year the dollar gained 40% while the inflation rate was 30%. So the last year things have been getting cheaper if you exchange all your money on the black market. It can be pain because you need to bring cash with you if you want the best rate.

It was so damn cheap when I was there in 2009. I had a nice meal at La Caballeriza for like $10 including a full bottle of wine. It could've been just a little over that. But still.

Buenos Aires is definitely a place I could see doing a mini-retirement at some point. Like 3-5 months. For anyone that had plans to stay for that timeframe, what would you suggest as far as getting good rates? I couldn't see bringing 4 months worth of cash.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(10-20-2013 03:57 PM)BIGBOY Wrote:  

Solo, it all depends on if the change in the xe rates keep up with the inflation rate. In the past couple years, inflation would go up by on average 30% per year and the dollar would gain around 10-15% in value against the peso, so yes things did get more expensive for dollar holders by 15%.

Last year, a black market for dollars has popped up (due to gov't restrictions) and now there is about a 40% spread between the official rate and black market rate. Last year the dollar gained 40% while the inflation rate was 30%. So the last year things have been getting cheaper if you exchange all your money on the black market. It can be pain because you need to bring cash with you if you want the best rate.

BigBoy, what about withdrawing cash from the ATM? Is that the same thing more or less as bringing cash? I have a bank that refunds all ATM fees by any bank (including international ones) at the end of the month so that fee isn't a concern.

I ask because the African country I mentioned had no ATM machines so I had to pickup cash I had wired to someone there.

[speakeasy]

(10-20-2013 05:05 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

BigBoy, what about withdrawing cash from the ATM? Is that the same thing more or less as bringing cash? I have a bank that refunds all ATM fees by any bank (including international ones) at the end of the month so that fee isn't a concern.

If you pull money from the ATM you would be getting the official exchange rate. But it sounds like in Argentina the black market rate is so much better you'd be crazy to use an ATM. But the black market rate is going to be cash for cash I'm sure.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(10-20-2013 05:11 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-20-2013 05:05 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

BigBoy, what about withdrawing cash from the ATM? Is that the same thing more or less as bringing cash? I have a bank that refunds all ATM fees by any bank (including international ones) at the end of the month so that fee isn't a concern.

If you pull money from the ATM you would be getting the official exchange rate. But it sounds like in Argentina the black market rate is so much better you'd be crazy to use an ATM. But the black market rate is going to be cash for cash I'm sure.

Right. Not sure how I lost sight of that.

Sucks having to bring all the cash you anticipate you'll need while down there. Very inconvenient.

Argentina would be ideal if it wasn't so volatile. When I was there in 2009/2010 I lived like a king. Fine dining everyday on the cheap.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Vampire mentioned earlier that a way to get access to US$ was to take the ferry across the Rio de la Plata and withdraw up to 1500$ per trip from what he mentioned. Has anyone else in here done that? Then with with the US$ just have them changed as needed on the black market around Calle Florida. Sounds like a decent way to go about it.

[Arg expert]

(10-20-2013 05:25 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Vampire mentioned earlier that a way to get access to US$ was to take the ferry across the Rio de la Plata and withdraw up to 1500$ per trip from what he mentioned. Has anyone else in here done that? Then with the US$ just have them changed as needed on the black market around Calle Florida. Sounds like a decent way to go about it.

If you use your US or European-issued credit card at an ATM in Uruguay, if I remember well, the ATM will surely NOT offer you the option of withdrawing in US dollars... you will get Uruguayan pesos, a limited amount per withdrawal, and at a cost (minimum 3 dollars per withdrawal, if not more)... Only people who have local accounts in dollars, at a local Bank, can get dollars direct from the ATM in Uruguay, if I remember right...

[ElJefe]

bitcoins?

[Duke Castile]

I know this question get's thrown around a lot but assuming you can bring in U.S. dollars, and you intend to exchange them on the black market, how much would it cost to live well there for say 3-5 months?

I ask because while I'm hearing individual meal prices etc, but I can't seem to get an idea of how much the cost of living actually is.

[Mekorig]

A little data for reference, dolar/peso eschange rate up to 10/21/2013:

Oficial:
Buy: 5,820 pesos each dollar
Sell: 5.860 pesos each dollar

So, if you are a tourist with dollars and wants to get pesos, you will get 5.820 pesos per dollar.

Black Market/"Blue" dollar:
Buy: 9,820 pesos each dollar
Sell: 9.900 pesos each dollar

This can vary a litttle from day to day, and right now the goverment is trying to get the blue dollar under the 10 pesos mark, at least until after the legislative elections. The current goverment is having a huge dollar hemorrage, and they are trying to keep in the country as much dollars as they can.

About the cost of living, for a tourist, i knew a couple of norwegians girls renting a studio flat in a very new building in the Palermo neighboorhood, and very trendy zone right now, and were paying something like 4000 pesos/month. You can get prices around that number, or more. Transportation, for a tourist, is a little expensive. Metro is about 2.5 pesos per trip, bus depends of the trip lenght, but between 1.50 to 1.75 pesos, and taxis are very expensive right now, even more in the night.

[Duke Castile]

Thanks Mekorig,

So am I understanding if I bring in 1000 usd cash, that I can sell for 9,900 Pesos on the black market?

[Mekorig]

Yes, you are right, but the exchange may vary between each "cueva" (cave, the black market). Right now the goverment is trying to have the exchange at a rate lower than 10 pesos.

[Arg expert]

(10-21-2013 11:41 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

Thanks Mekorig,

So am I understanding if I bring in 1000 usd cash, that I can sell for 9,900 Pesos on the black market?

Do not think that you will easily find a studio for rent in Palermo for just 400 usd per month. You are more likely to end up paying 600 usd for a studio or a "2 ambientes", and maybe not even in Palermo, but, like, in San Telmo or Congreso...

(Mekorig, if you don't mind, could you please PM me with the contact detail-email of this owner renting his-her studio for 400 usd per month... I know people that would be interested in renting at such a good price, in Palermo... are utilities included, wifi and all?? real good deal then!)

Anyway Fisto, if you plan on coming to Argentina for 3 months, do not bring less than 4500 usd in cash with you.

600 usd per month for a flat with maybe a living room plus one or two sleeping rooms...
30 usd per day for eating and going out, having some beer and stuff, buying beers to girls...

One thing more : go change on the black market calle Florida, only if you do not have any Argentine friend.
Better to sell your dollars to any Argentine friend, or even, to your landlord-landlady.

If you do sell your usd on black m., sell just 200 usd, get the almost 2000 pesos, check the banknotes against the light, taking your time. Repeat process. Repeat process. Until you have changed all of your usd.

You may also want to wait until after the elections, to see what will happen with the peso, lol.