[MikeCF]

Do the seasoned travelers agree with this article's analysis?

http://www.businessinsider.com/four-valu...ain-2012-2

[Basil Ransom]

Just a note: if you ever want to do security related work for the government or a contractor, you will have to give up your foreign passports of which they are aware.

[DrainTree]

Too bad you have to get circumcised to become an Israeli.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I met a dude when I was in Israel who had three passports (hat trick): American, British (EU), and Israeli. He's a Jew who was born in England to a British father and American mother. He got his Israeli citizenship through the birthright program.

Anyway, he said if he could only keep one, it would be Israeli. I guess he was just passionate about the country because of all three passports, Israel is the most limited for travel. There's many countries that don't even recognize the State of Israel which means citizens from there aren't allowed to travel to those countries.

Also, it's tough for Israelis to get visas to visit the US whereas EU folks can just hop on a plane for the US and get a fresh 90-day stamp without trouble.

If I could choose an additional passport outside of the US, it would be EU for sure. Any Western European country would be fine by me.

Maybe one day I'll marry a European. I wouldn't mind raising kids out there for a few years or so.

One of my childhood friends just happened to be born in England but grew up his whole life in the States. He was able to apply to the second best law school in Europe, only second to Cambridge (Tilburg University in Holland) and picked up an LLM degree for mad cheap (EU discount).

He had the time of his life. His classmates were from all over the world and even included fly girls from countries like Luxembourg and Monaco. This dude used the hell out of those discount airlines and was literally in a new country every weekend or so (EZ-Jet'setter' lol).

Not bad.

[germanico]

Belgium and Brazil look tempting.

Any info on how much cash it would take to get the passport?

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 04:20 PM)germanico Wrote:  

Belgium and Brazil look tempting.

Any info on how much cash it would take to get the passport?

50K in Brazil will do the job. That country still suffers from bloated bureaucracy and corruption. I don't really see any benefits to citizenship there unless you're looking to invest and start a company. Not for the average joe. Weak state welfare system compared to the West.

[chairman]

Some of these citizenships are not worth it because you would have to give up your old one and in most cases would be bad. Belgium is the most tempting, but it is the same difficulty as many other EU nations. UK would probably be the easiest because of no language barrier.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 04:30 PM)chairman Wrote:  

Some of these citizenships are not worth it because you would have to give up your old one and in most cases would be bad. Belgium is the most tempting, but it is the same difficulty as many other EU nations. UK would probably be the easiest because of no language barrier.

Belgium is good because the EU headquarters is in Brussels. There's lots of gigs there if you're looking for formal employment. Not a whole lot going on in Belgium otherwise, but as an EU member state, you can work in any country within the Euro zone, including the UK. Belgium is by far the best one of the lot for most people.

[MikeCF]

(02-23-2012 04:25 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 04:20 PM)germanico Wrote:  

Belgium and Brazil look tempting.

Any info on how much cash it would take to get the passport?

50K in Brazil will do the job. That country still suffers from bloated bureaucracy and corruption. I don't really see any benefits to citizenship there unless you're looking to invest and start a company. Not for the average joe. Weak state welfare system compared to the West.

One word: Taxes.

The U.S. taxes worldwide income over a certain amount ($91,500, IIRC).

I'm not married to this country, and would give up citizenship to save cash.

[chairman]

(02-23-2012 04:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 04:30 PM)chairman Wrote:  

Some of these citizenships are not worth it because you would have to give up your old one and in most cases would be bad. Belgium is the most tempting, but it is the same difficulty as many other EU nations. UK would probably be the easiest because of no language barrier.

Belgium is good because the EU headquarters is in Brussels. There's lots of gigs there if you're looking for formal employment. Not a whole lot going on in Belgium otherwise, but as an EU member state, you can work in any country within the Euro zone, including the UK. Belgium is by far the best one of the lot for most people.

Im not 100% on the regulations of getting Belgium citizenship, but I am assuming you will have to be close to fluent in French which to many would be too big of an issue. Also, the EU citizenships are all very similar in order to keep consistent regulations in each country.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 04:43 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 04:25 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 04:20 PM)germanico Wrote:  

Belgium and Brazil look tempting.

Any info on how much cash it would take to get the passport?

50K in Brazil will do the job. That country still suffers from bloated bureaucracy and corruption. I don't really see any benefits to citizenship there unless you're looking to invest and start a company. Not for the average joe. Weak state welfare system compared to the West.

One word: Taxes.

The U.S. taxes worldwide income over a certain amount ($91,500, IIRC).

I'm not married to this country, and would give up citizenship to save cash.

Yeah. That worldwide income provision was inconspicuously rolled out over the holidays while everyone was busy getting drunk.

From the standpoint of taxes, you're better off in the US or Singapore (provided you are not required to serve in the military).

Brazil's tax code is utterly indecipherable and encourages fraud while stunting innovation. Brazil's tax-to-GDP rate is the highest in the Western hemisphere. Its payroll tax is even higher than that of Sweden!

Even worse, the government services are typically third world. The state of education, public infrastructure, and citizen services are horrendous.

I'll never forget walking with a Brazilian friend through Sao Paulo and he stopped me to notice an electronic bulletin that was constantly calculating the amount of tax revenue the government was receiving in live time. I was astonished by the atmospheric number beset by the harsh environment around me (gridlock traffic, urban congestion, no sense of order).

So where is the money going? To the pockets of those guys hanging out far away in Brasilia. Look into the history of why the elites in Brazil eventually decided to invent a capital hundreds of miles away from the country's population centers.

Belgium and the EU, where government services are far better than that of Brazil and even the US, you pay higher taxes than the US, but at least you are arguably getting something for it (safety, education, advanced infrastructure).

So yeah, you're probably better off staying put if taxes are your main concern.

[thegmanifesto]

On there he says this:

Quote:

2) BRAZIL. There are two great things about Brazil. One, they refuse to extradite their citizens to answer for foreign crimes. It just doesn’t happen.

Anyone know if that is the case?

I know that Jesse James Hollywood guy was extradited from Brazil.

I am not 100% that he was a citizen though.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

On there he says this:

Quote:

2) BRAZIL. There are two great things about Brazil. One, they refuse to extradite their citizens to answer for foreign crimes. It just doesn’t happen.

Anyone know if that is the case?

I know that Jesse James Hollywood guy was extradited from Brazil.

I am not 100% that he was a citizen though.

They won't extradite BRAZILIAN citizens. Jesse James was an American.

[thegmanifesto]

(02-23-2012 05:53 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

On there he says this:

Quote:

2) BRAZIL. There are two great things about Brazil. One, they refuse to extradite their citizens to answer for foreign crimes. It just doesn’t happen.

Anyone know if that is the case?

I know that Jesse James Hollywood guy was extradited from Brazil.

I am not 100% that he was a citizen though.

They won't extradite BRAZILIAN citizens. Jesse James was an American.

It also says:

Quote:

Brazil is the KING of ‘flexible’ citizenship options– getting married, adopting a child, hell even adopting a rain forest in some cases

I remember reading Jesse James Hollywood was living with a woman with a child.

Maybe he didn't "button up" the citizen thing though?

Ronnie Biggs of Great Train Robbery fame stayed in Brazil for a long time, when he married a Brazilian. England couldn't extradite him.

Maybe Jesse James Hollywood dropped the ball.

[MiXX]

I have political friends in Brasilia I visit, and one of their favorite pastimes, is to gather around beer (chopp), with their fancy suits, and talk abut how much money they have robbed from the gov't WITH PRIDE!!!!

One of them drives a late model Ferrari....in BRAZIL!!!

I was amazed at how open, and proud they are of stealing. It's like bragging about fucking a top tier model for them, their own country!

Mixx

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 06:16 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

I have political friends in Brasilia I visit, and one of their favorite pastimes, is to gather around beer (chopp), with their fancy suits, and talk abut how much money they have robbed from the gov't WITH PRIDE!!!!

One of them drives a late model Ferrari....in BRAZIL!!!

I was amazed at how open, and proud they are of stealing. It's like bragging about fucking a top tier model for them, their own country!

Mixx

That's wild. Elites in South America do it big. They live out their lives on levels most Americans can't even imagine.

I remember seeing a dude in Lima, Peru getting inside his Ferrari once. Do you know how poor the average person in Lima is? That's just wild.

We have huge inequality in the US as well, but it's offset somewhat due to our large middle class.

In Latin America, there is no big middle class. Most of the people are very poor, and a tiny elite are VERY rich.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 06:12 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 05:53 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

On there he says this:

Quote:

2) BRAZIL. There are two great things about Brazil. One, they refuse to extradite their citizens to answer for foreign crimes. It just doesn’t happen.

Anyone know if that is the case?

I know that Jesse James Hollywood guy was extradited from Brazil.

I am not 100% that he was a citizen though.

They won't extradite BRAZILIAN citizens. Jesse James was an American.

It also says:

Quote:

Brazil is the KING of ‘flexible’ citizenship options– getting married, adopting a child, hell even adopting a rain forest in some cases

I remember reading Jesse James Hollywood was living with a woman with a child.

Maybe he didn't "button up" the citizen thing though?

Ronnie Biggs of Great Train Robbery fame stayed in Brazil for a long time, when he married a Brazilian. England couldn't extradite him.

Maybe Jesse James Hollywood dropped the ball.

This extradition policy became an issue most recently during that epic custody battle between an American father and Brazilian mother over custody of their child. They were married and lived together in New Jersey when she took the son with her to Brazil--supposedly for vacation--only to never return. The case went up all the way to the Supreme Court in Brazil and even involved Hillary Clinton intervening by speaking with her Brazilian counterparts on the issue at one point. Trade ties between the two countries were even called into question and the case became a major international issue between the US and Brazil.

After years of struggle, the father finally got his kid back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/12/2...MJ20091225

[Mr.GM]

So you met the "Impostômetro" then...

I'm shocked to see how well Hencredible knows the Brazilian society. That's how it rolls here.. fucking corrupt country.

You don't know how it pisses me off to pay more taxes than a Swedish men , while having streets paved with violence and poverty.

Anyway , I don't see any advantage to have a Brazilian passport if you don't want to settle here. I have an EU passport (Portuguese) and Its way better to travel to most countries.

Jesse was american , and I don't know if it is that easy to get a Brazilian citizenship. My experience tells otherwise (german co-workers gave up due to the amount of red-tape and pre-requisites.)

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-23-2012 06:40 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

So you met the "Impostômetro" then...

I'm shocked to see how well Hencredible knows the Brazilian society. That's how it rolls here.. fucking corrupt country.

You don't know how it pisses me off to pay more taxes than a Swedish men , while having streets paved with violence and poverty.

Anyway , I don't see any advantage to have a Brazilian passport if you don't want to settle here. I have an EU passport (Portuguese) and Its way better to travel to most countries.

Jesse was american , and I don't know if it is that easy to get a Brazilian citizenship. My experience tells otherwise (german co-workers gave up due to the amount of red-tape and pre-requisites.)

I had seriously considered moving to Brazil at one point. I still love the country in spite of all its problems. Many of my friends there share your disappointment. I still may decide to live there on a part-time basis depending on how my business ideas pan out in the future.

It only makes sense to get citizenship there if you're planning to bring a lot of money to invest and that can make an impact on the local economy.

Case in point, the founder of JetBlue Airways. He's an American guy who happened to have been born in Brazil because his father was a US Diplomat stationed there at the time. Due to his citizenship by birth on Brazilian soil, he was able to establish a low-cost airline in Brazil modeled after JetBlue. Perfect timing because he made that move just as Brazil's middle class was rapidly growing. He's made a lot of profit down there.

[oldnemesis]

(02-23-2012 06:16 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

I was amazed at how open, and proud they are of stealing. It's like bragging about fucking a top tier model for them, their own country!

Sounds no different from Russia/Ukraine.

[TheBear]

From the Americans I have talked to living in Brazil, citizenship is anything but easy. I know a guy that has been down here 6 years, is married to a Brazilian, and owns a company. He only got his citizenship last year. While the process may appear easy on paper, like many things in Brazil, the reality is probably quite different.

That being said, if it were feasible to get one and still hold my U.S. citizenship I would definitely do it. Having one country on the rise and one on the fall would give me more options. I'm also curious as to how well American citizens will be treated abroad after it loses it's world power status.

I have a feeling that all the countries we fucked over since WWII may not be so friendly when they could do business with China/India/Brazil instead of us.

[phoenix101]

I have both a Canadian and Italian passport (born in Canada).
Canadian one lasts 5 years; the Italian one last 10 years but in order for it to be valid when travelling you have to buy a €40.29 tax stamp that is valid for one year or up to the next anniversary date of the issue whichever is less. I've had it for barely a couple of years and even spending months in Euroland I haven't used it not even for the Euro lines at airports.

[GiovanniRio]

(02-23-2012 11:25 PM)TheBear Wrote:  

From the Americans I have talked to living in Brazil, citizenship is anything but easy. I know a guy that has been down here 6 years, is married to a Brazilian, and owns a company. He only got his citizenship last year. While the process may appear easy on paper, like many things in Brazil, the reality is probably quite different.

That being said, if it were feasible to get one and still hold my U.S. citizenship I would definitely do it. Having one country on the rise and one on the fall would give me more options. I'm also curious as to how well American citizens will be treated abroad after it loses it's world power status.

I have a feeling that all the countries we fucked over since WWII may not be so friendly when they could do business with China/India/Brazil instead of us.

It takes time, but it's pretty easy, although not always as straight forward as it should be (read many additional visits, where 1 should be enough). It just takes lots of time. I had to wait 1 year before the policia federal came to see if I actually lived in the country, and another one to get my ID. It takes another 5 years before you can go for a Brazilian passport. I now have a Belgian & Brazilian one

With regards to taxes (Hencredible Casanova): as soon you cross the 6-7000 euro income/month, I don't understand people still pay taxes, except if you are doing local (small) business. Taxes on INCOME are very low in Brazil compared to Europe/US and it's pretty easy to work with foreign companies to take most of your money out of the total income tax figure.

Yes, countries such as Belgium have a great social structure, but if you earn enough money, the taxes you'll be paying are way to much compared to the service you'll be receiving. No way I ever pay for people who resist to work, bad governmental investments,... I'll pay my own pension, health insurance, ... but refuse to pay 51% on my earned money.

[Vickers]

(02-24-2012 05:41 AM)GiovanniRio Wrote:  

(02-23-2012 11:25 PM)TheBear Wrote:  

From the Americans I have talked to living in Brazil, citizenship is anything but easy. I know a guy that has been down here 6 years, is married to a Brazilian, and owns a company. He only got his citizenship last year. While the process may appear easy on paper, like many things in Brazil, the reality is probably quite different.

That being said, if it were feasible to get one and still hold my U.S. citizenship I would definitely do it. Having one country on the rise and one on the fall would give me more options. I'm also curious as to how well American citizens will be treated abroad after it loses it's world power status.

I have a feeling that all the countries we fucked over since WWII may not be so friendly when they could do business with China/India/Brazil instead of us.

It takes time, but it's pretty easy, although not always as straight forward as it should be (read many additional visits, where 1 should be enough). It just takes lots of time. I had to wait 1 year before the policia federal came to see if I actually lived in the country, and another one to get my ID. It takes another 5 years before you can go for a Brazilian passport. I now have a Belgian & Brazilian one

With regards to taxes (Hencredible Casanova): as soon you cross the 6-7000 euro income/month, I don't understand people still pay taxes, except if you are doing local (small) business. Taxes on INCOME are very low in Brazil compared to Europe/US and it's pretty easy to work with foreign companies to take most of your money out of the total income tax figure.

Yes, countries such as Belgium have a great social structure, but if you earn enough money, the taxes you'll be paying are way to much compared to the service you'll be receiving. No way I ever pay for people who resist to work, bad governmental investments,... I'll pay my own pension, health insurance, ... but refuse to pay 51% on my earned money.

Yes if you can,but as it seems approximately 38 million of your fellow-citizens "can't afford" it.

What kind of "service" is that?

What is the average life expectancy in your society and in the "tax-financed" govermental invested EU countries?
So which countries offer the better service?

Let this "question" be.

[GiovanniRio]

(02-24-2012 08:05 AM)Vickers Wrote:  

[quote] (02-24-2012 05:41 AM)GiovanniRio Wrote:  

Yes if you can,but as it seems approximately 38 million of your fellow-citizens "can't afford" it.

What kind of "service" is that?

What is the average life expectancy in your society and in the "tax-financed" govermental invested EU countries?
So which countries offer the better service?

Let this "question" be.


@Vickers Not sure what you mean, but I'll give it a try...

There are only 11million people in Belgium AND health insurance is FREE - or costs up to around 60€ a year... schools are free, same with many other things... Thing is that its never free... as you pay taxes (quickly up to 51%, and 21% VAT). In case you have a decent business running, the taxes you'll be paying are WAY more than the costs of paying your own health insurance, pension,... in other words, you are paying for the once who don't make anything out of their lives. Not my thing.

Average life expectancy in Flanders; 80.7 years, being with the best in the world... I however don't care for that. This means you are depending on others. If you make something out of your live, you are able to afford the best everywhere in the world, and thus life expectation becomes location independent.

If you are talking about Brazil, there's a free health insurance system to, all be it low quality. The same thing counts there to; I only pay a small amount of taxes, which are fair; roads, security,... those services need to be paid to, as I'm using them. No problem with that.

Now, back to the passports. First: I can stay as long/live in Brazil without any limitations. My Belgian also allows me to travel to most countries without a visa, or live in any European country if I wish to. Second, thanks to both my passports I always have safety-nets. Third, its a massive value if you want to be creative with your taxes.