Gents,
I will have been in Kiev for two weeks. For the benefit of my RVF brothers in arms, I present a trip report with some case studies for your voyeuristic delectation. My Russian is basic but I can have a simple conversation. I am 32, have intermediate game, moderately handsome and visibly appear to have money and assets. My verbal attraction game is superb, comfort good but my physical kino escalation is not as smooth and as aggresive as I would like it to be.
I was originally going to Kharkov as a juicy looking Tier 2 that received good reviews on RVF, but then correspondence with Rooshey who had stayed there previously (I expect all will be revealed in Bang Ukraine) warned me off it due to the appalling levels of English and general shithole nature of the place.
So Kiev it would be. Conclusions for you gentlemen:
1) Don't come here (or to Ukraine in general IMO) unless you have a basic conversational Russian. 1 in 10 of my approaches speaks conversational English, that’s a lot of turning over stones. Compare that to Belgrade/Zagreb etc where 9 in 10 speak great English. Poland, Baltics and Balkans would render far better bang for your buck for far less effort.
2) Yes Kiev has a slightly larger percentage than most EE destinations of 9 and 10s. This is irrelevant because you won't be slaying any unless you arrived in your private jet or starred in the last Hollywood blockbuster. Next to my apartment is a Ferrari showroom; the fact that you're foreign and have a bit of disposable income means shit to the top girls.
3) The 6,7,8s of Kiev that should be our normal staple are as prevalent and hot as in the aforementioned alternative EE destinations. As in those countries they speak much better English, its a no brainer to go there first unless your Russian is decent or you have a hard on for FSU architecture.
4) Kiev itself is a very nice city and pleasant to stay in. No problems for me with crime or idiots or Russian guys. The problems with the language have made basic administrative tasks far harder than they should have been. Tourism options are severely limited and they seem to have a penchant for truly bad combined pizza/sushi restaurants. It doesn't feel dirt poor. AirBNB apartment the best option as centrally as possible. DO NOT SKIMP AND GET AN APARTMENT IN THE SUBURBS. As Rooshey recently mentioned in his Zagreb post, this WILL bite you in the ass and you will be spending many nights with only your hand for company.
The city has its fair share of Turks/Italians/American goons propositioning every hot girl in heels that walks down the main strip (Kreshatic). This makes them highly suspicious of you before you have a chance to lay down your more refined game. This is no longer an undiscovered sex paradise and will only receive more tourists as time passes. Conversational Russian would I am sure bypass these bitch shields, allowing you to segue nicely into English should they speak it.
5) The few 6-8 girls that do speak english are more than receptive to talking to you and going out for coffee etc especially to practice their English. Converting them into bangs is another thing as you will see in my case studies. Figuring out the Ukrainian girl mentality has not been easy for me despite reading advice from such EE luminaries as Kamaki, Hooligan Harry, Luckystar and others.
6) I met up with a fellow RVFer called Jeff and we hung and gamed for most of the last week. Makes a longish foreign trip by yourself twice as fun to game with a wingman. AA was significantly reduced by being social with someone between approaches and not being in my head – something to bear in mind for the introverts travelling alone to game foreign countries.
Case Studies
They’re a bit long but I wanted to give a full flavour of the games played by Ukrianian girls.
I am a quality fiend. On a pussy hunting expedition abroad I only game girls 7.5 and above. These are hot girls that are highly in demand by their own men, let alone horny foreigners and the difficulty of banging them will be evident. I only work young and hot targets abroad, I’m a fillet mignon man.
READ SHY BLONDE IF YOU ONLY READ ONE CASE STUDY
Input from kamaki and co appreciated on the mentality of these lovely FSU women. I still haven’t figured them out...
Catwalk Model 9, 20
Model I number closed in front of national Ukrainian TV cameras. She was filming a NEXT UKRAINIAN TOP SUPERMODEL SHOW which I barged in on. The square was covered in roving camera men filming for the show and the girls and boys had to sell some overpriced gap stuff they were wearing to win a competition against another group of models. The model and I were having great chemistry so I motioned her over with my finger. Bought a scarf for myself (cheap for my pocket and she wanted me to buy her blouse LOL), and then surrounded by camera crew I number closed her. She wants me to come to her filming hotel but its 75km away and they have a curfew.
Looks wise she is absolutely gorgeous but achieving a bang would be very tricky logistically for obvious reasons. I kind of fucked this one up this afternoon by mentioning that I had a present for her (some fake perfume, not that she would know) that I would drop round when I visited and she reacted by saying that she didn’t need presents, I should give it to my girlfriend etc. This sort of error results from not yet understanding the mentality of the babes here.
Kamaki I am sure will comment on this as he has more experience with presents. My conclusion is that presents must only be used to solidify an already imminent bang. Do not use it as bait for an early date as they will take offence that you are trying to buy them.
Will get one of my girlfriends here to record the show and post it on RVF for the LOLs.
Red Head 8, 20, Part time model.
Met her through social network. She is smoking hot but after arriving late and I called her out on it, she proceeded to act like a complete c**t taking offence at everything I said. I hung in there as I was very keen to jizz in that red hair of hers she was so proud of and mess it up completely. Clearly enjoys practicing her english which is excellent as she spent a year in USA when she was 16. Explains everything really.
After 2 hours of me holding alpha frame and her acting up she chills a bit and we get into some comfort listening to my music at the metro entrance. She clearly is lacking money and has a boyfriend she’s “in love with”. BF is her age, unemployed, lives with parents and can’t help her with anything financially. A loser. I was under the impression girls would be keen to jump ship to a smooth handsome British guy with money, but not so, as you will see.
She calls me out of the blue on Saturday midnight when I’m in my pijamas to smoke hookah. Asks me to pay for the taxi and of course I will have to pay for everything as shes broke. I reluctantly agree thinking it’s a chance to get her drunk. To her credit all taxis shes taken have been super cheap and she hasn’t tried to shaft me on them at all. We hang out, kino is very hard work because she keeps backing away. I get several coctails down her and start to crowd her personal space, hand behind back several times etc. Tough work. We are doing deep comfort conversation and she is obviously enjoying being with me.
Taxi for her at 6 AM and didn’t try the one last cocktail at home move because I wasn’t getting far enough with the kino. She mentioned her BF a couple of times and I of course ignored and ploughed.
Next day she takes me to coffee and gives me two little presents including a glossy brochure of Ukraines sexiest women. We are really starting to connect. We correspond quite a lot on VK between the meets and there is chemistry.
THIS IS THE GOOD PART:
Tuesday, at 1 AM after a long VK chat, I tell her I will be flying out in 5 days for work before returning to kiev (lie) and I won’t be able to see her before. She immediately says she is getting a taxi to come over… to have a hot shower at mine because she hasn’t got hot water…LOL
I immediately assume it’s a booty call and prep the flat as per GAME 101: Chocolates, Martini, small present as recommended by Kamaki and mood music. But I lay these elements on one at a time smoothly so it looks like they just happen to be around. She arrives in heels and nice dress (my conditions for her to come ), she has shower and we sit down on the small couch side by side with chocs and drinks and music. Comfort again with some attraction mixed in.
She seems confused or conflicted. I assume it’s the age old hindbrain forebrain conflict and work deep comfort, lingering kino and eye fucking. But any kino is rebuffed. After 2 hours of this my body is slouched right next to hers touching all along the length. Without any green light to escalate further I don’t beyond the kino. She says she has to go at 3AM and calls taxi. Walk her out with “WTF happened there” running through my head. Message her the next day and coolly tell her: that shit is unacceptable. She seems confused, she has a boyfriend blah blah, came there to talk etc. Explained to her that I don’t do gay best friend and backburner her.
The error I can identify is not going full on aggressive sexual on her as soon as she arrived in the flat, making out etc. The risk was she would reject it and I burn the set but at least she knows what its about and doesn’t waste my time. In the absence of green lights I played the gentleman because caveman game isn’t my forte. Coming to a dudes flat you’ve met twice and who is obviously attracted to you 1 AM for a hot shower LOL.
Conclusion: Sexualising meets with girls met with indirect game on social networks (“Lets meet for a coffee and chat a bit in English”) is time consuming, tricky and needs its own RVF post. Assess quickly if these girls have boyfriends and seem in love still and if so NEXT them. You’re working with limited time when on a poon vacation.
Shy blonde 8.5/9, 24, English Teacher
The pick of the bunch, a real gem. Very attractive girl, 180cm, long silky blonde hair down to her ass and large tits, who is actually quite geeky, slightly shy with men and doesn’t know she is as hot as she is. Yes I know she sounds made up but thats what I'm working with. Shame she may be frigid LOL.
The two times I’ve picked her up from the metro, both times when I have arrived she has been being hit on by a different Russian dude with no game. LTR material for sure.
Meet her through aforementioned indirect game social network and she really wants to meet to practice her English. Meet and quickly realise I have discovered a gem. Move her to a pub for food and immediately start gaming her. She is somewhat shy. I ask her if she is married as a joke and she replies yes without cracking a smile. She plays this charade for 10 minutes until I ask her where her ring is and she admits she isn’t married and is single. Strange behaviour and maybe I was telegraphing too much interest. Bounce her to cocktail bar, I sit on a sofa and she is sitting on the opposite chair across from a table. Tell her to sit next to me, which she is somewhat reluctant to do but she does.
Lots of attraction and comfort material from me and she is IOIng like mad and constantly rearranging her dress. She really doesnt know what to do with herself and is blushing. I am getting lingering kino in but anything like an arm around the back move is rebuffed saying she doesn’t like it when people touch her.
Cocktail bar closes and she says she has to get back home with a taxi. Again don’t try to bounce her for one last cocktail to my place because I am getting the vibe shes a fairly serious and shy girl and my kino has not advanced enough.
Next day I tell her to meet me for a coffee. She does and takes me to her favourite place where I work more comfort and attraction, she is having a great time. Leaving coffee shop I get my arm around her for 20 second intervals and then release and she is more or less comfortable with that. Hand holding is a definite nono.
She SMSes to see me the next day in the evening and we go to a restaurant. Im thinking this D3 is the moment I get to holding hands and make out. Starts off on the wrong foot as her instructions to the restaurant are not good and she gets cold. At the restaurant (to her credit only orders a dessert) she is pumping me for corrections to her English on the SMSes and asking me to explain difficult grammatical points from my SMSes (I am expert in English grammar). At this point I get the feeling I am being played for my English. Its Sunday so she says she’s going home as she works next day. Try to get my arm around the back and its rebuffed “touching makes me angry” though she continues being cordial with me. I seed a dinner at my flat and a movie and she agrees with no fuss. WTF!?
So we get to today where she comes round this evening. No idea how to play it. No idea what shes thinking. At 24 in FSU shes getting old for not being married but this girl is a mystery to me. Accepting an invite to dinner and movie at my place must be an IOI right? Confusing to say the least.
Girl next door 8, 20, Student
Brief one: Number closed her in local eatery after she was IOIing me after hearing me speak English with my wing. I join her group of guys and girls and quickly become AMOG, directing conversation flow. Confirm with her she is single and get her VK and number easily. She is super cute, slightly shy and very very feminine. Get her out for a coffee date and she is giving me enormous IOIs, looking down, blushing, twirling her hair etc. I kino her often.
On the walk back I try to get my arm around her back but she is uncomfortable and says that she had a boyfriend until 3 weeks ago and isn’t ready for another one. WTF LOL? I ignore and continue working comfort. She leaves and tells me the times she’s free to see me. Will have to get her out on a night time date.
All in all, the mentality of these girls is somewhat confusing when compared to my experiences with Western European girls. I am still working them out and establishing the optimum modus operandi.
Someone mentioned in a recent post (Kamaki?) that in general for affluent westerners, banging top shelf talent gets easier the poorer the country, but when you reach a threshold poorness level (Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus) bangs parodoxically get harder. This actually sounds about right and I have no idea why. At a certain poverty level. could us westerners be too disconnected from their day to day reality that it hinders our ability to truly read where we are in the seduction?
I will have been in Kiev for two weeks. For the benefit of my RVF brothers in arms, I present a trip report with some case studies for your voyeuristic delectation. My Russian is basic but I can have a simple conversation. I am 32, have intermediate game, moderately handsome and visibly appear to have money and assets. My verbal attraction game is superb, comfort good but my physical kino escalation is not as smooth and as aggresive as I would like it to be.
I was originally going to Kharkov as a juicy looking Tier 2 that received good reviews on RVF, but then correspondence with Rooshey who had stayed there previously (I expect all will be revealed in Bang Ukraine) warned me off it due to the appalling levels of English and general shithole nature of the place.
So Kiev it would be. Conclusions for you gentlemen:
1) Don't come here (or to Ukraine in general IMO) unless you have a basic conversational Russian. 1 in 10 of my approaches speaks conversational English, that’s a lot of turning over stones. Compare that to Belgrade/Zagreb etc where 9 in 10 speak great English. Poland, Baltics and Balkans would render far better bang for your buck for far less effort.
2) Yes Kiev has a slightly larger percentage than most EE destinations of 9 and 10s. This is irrelevant because you won't be slaying any unless you arrived in your private jet or starred in the last Hollywood blockbuster. Next to my apartment is a Ferrari showroom; the fact that you're foreign and have a bit of disposable income means shit to the top girls.
3) The 6,7,8s of Kiev that should be our normal staple are as prevalent and hot as in the aforementioned alternative EE destinations. As in those countries they speak much better English, its a no brainer to go there first unless your Russian is decent or you have a hard on for FSU architecture.
4) Kiev itself is a very nice city and pleasant to stay in. No problems for me with crime or idiots or Russian guys. The problems with the language have made basic administrative tasks far harder than they should have been. Tourism options are severely limited and they seem to have a penchant for truly bad combined pizza/sushi restaurants. It doesn't feel dirt poor. AirBNB apartment the best option as centrally as possible. DO NOT SKIMP AND GET AN APARTMENT IN THE SUBURBS. As Rooshey recently mentioned in his Zagreb post, this WILL bite you in the ass and you will be spending many nights with only your hand for company.
The city has its fair share of Turks/Italians/American goons propositioning every hot girl in heels that walks down the main strip (Kreshatic). This makes them highly suspicious of you before you have a chance to lay down your more refined game. This is no longer an undiscovered sex paradise and will only receive more tourists as time passes. Conversational Russian would I am sure bypass these bitch shields, allowing you to segue nicely into English should they speak it.
5) The few 6-8 girls that do speak english are more than receptive to talking to you and going out for coffee etc especially to practice their English. Converting them into bangs is another thing as you will see in my case studies. Figuring out the Ukrainian girl mentality has not been easy for me despite reading advice from such EE luminaries as Kamaki, Hooligan Harry, Luckystar and others.
6) I met up with a fellow RVFer called Jeff and we hung and gamed for most of the last week. Makes a longish foreign trip by yourself twice as fun to game with a wingman. AA was significantly reduced by being social with someone between approaches and not being in my head – something to bear in mind for the introverts travelling alone to game foreign countries.
Case Studies
They’re a bit long but I wanted to give a full flavour of the games played by Ukrianian girls.
I am a quality fiend. On a pussy hunting expedition abroad I only game girls 7.5 and above. These are hot girls that are highly in demand by their own men, let alone horny foreigners and the difficulty of banging them will be evident. I only work young and hot targets abroad, I’m a fillet mignon man.
READ SHY BLONDE IF YOU ONLY READ ONE CASE STUDY
Input from kamaki and co appreciated on the mentality of these lovely FSU women. I still haven’t figured them out...
Catwalk Model 9, 20
Model I number closed in front of national Ukrainian TV cameras. She was filming a NEXT UKRAINIAN TOP SUPERMODEL SHOW which I barged in on. The square was covered in roving camera men filming for the show and the girls and boys had to sell some overpriced gap stuff they were wearing to win a competition against another group of models. The model and I were having great chemistry so I motioned her over with my finger. Bought a scarf for myself (cheap for my pocket and she wanted me to buy her blouse LOL), and then surrounded by camera crew I number closed her. She wants me to come to her filming hotel but its 75km away and they have a curfew.
Looks wise she is absolutely gorgeous but achieving a bang would be very tricky logistically for obvious reasons. I kind of fucked this one up this afternoon by mentioning that I had a present for her (some fake perfume, not that she would know) that I would drop round when I visited and she reacted by saying that she didn’t need presents, I should give it to my girlfriend etc. This sort of error results from not yet understanding the mentality of the babes here.
Kamaki I am sure will comment on this as he has more experience with presents. My conclusion is that presents must only be used to solidify an already imminent bang. Do not use it as bait for an early date as they will take offence that you are trying to buy them.
Will get one of my girlfriends here to record the show and post it on RVF for the LOLs.
Red Head 8, 20, Part time model.
Met her through social network. She is smoking hot but after arriving late and I called her out on it, she proceeded to act like a complete c**t taking offence at everything I said. I hung in there as I was very keen to jizz in that red hair of hers she was so proud of and mess it up completely. Clearly enjoys practicing her english which is excellent as she spent a year in USA when she was 16. Explains everything really.
After 2 hours of me holding alpha frame and her acting up she chills a bit and we get into some comfort listening to my music at the metro entrance. She clearly is lacking money and has a boyfriend she’s “in love with”. BF is her age, unemployed, lives with parents and can’t help her with anything financially. A loser. I was under the impression girls would be keen to jump ship to a smooth handsome British guy with money, but not so, as you will see.
She calls me out of the blue on Saturday midnight when I’m in my pijamas to smoke hookah. Asks me to pay for the taxi and of course I will have to pay for everything as shes broke. I reluctantly agree thinking it’s a chance to get her drunk. To her credit all taxis shes taken have been super cheap and she hasn’t tried to shaft me on them at all. We hang out, kino is very hard work because she keeps backing away. I get several coctails down her and start to crowd her personal space, hand behind back several times etc. Tough work. We are doing deep comfort conversation and she is obviously enjoying being with me.
Taxi for her at 6 AM and didn’t try the one last cocktail at home move because I wasn’t getting far enough with the kino. She mentioned her BF a couple of times and I of course ignored and ploughed.
Next day she takes me to coffee and gives me two little presents including a glossy brochure of Ukraines sexiest women. We are really starting to connect. We correspond quite a lot on VK between the meets and there is chemistry.
THIS IS THE GOOD PART:
Tuesday, at 1 AM after a long VK chat, I tell her I will be flying out in 5 days for work before returning to kiev (lie) and I won’t be able to see her before. She immediately says she is getting a taxi to come over… to have a hot shower at mine because she hasn’t got hot water…LOL
I immediately assume it’s a booty call and prep the flat as per GAME 101: Chocolates, Martini, small present as recommended by Kamaki and mood music. But I lay these elements on one at a time smoothly so it looks like they just happen to be around. She arrives in heels and nice dress (my conditions for her to come ), she has shower and we sit down on the small couch side by side with chocs and drinks and music. Comfort again with some attraction mixed in.
She seems confused or conflicted. I assume it’s the age old hindbrain forebrain conflict and work deep comfort, lingering kino and eye fucking. But any kino is rebuffed. After 2 hours of this my body is slouched right next to hers touching all along the length. Without any green light to escalate further I don’t beyond the kino. She says she has to go at 3AM and calls taxi. Walk her out with “WTF happened there” running through my head. Message her the next day and coolly tell her: that shit is unacceptable. She seems confused, she has a boyfriend blah blah, came there to talk etc. Explained to her that I don’t do gay best friend and backburner her.
The error I can identify is not going full on aggressive sexual on her as soon as she arrived in the flat, making out etc. The risk was she would reject it and I burn the set but at least she knows what its about and doesn’t waste my time. In the absence of green lights I played the gentleman because caveman game isn’t my forte. Coming to a dudes flat you’ve met twice and who is obviously attracted to you 1 AM for a hot shower LOL.
Conclusion: Sexualising meets with girls met with indirect game on social networks (“Lets meet for a coffee and chat a bit in English”) is time consuming, tricky and needs its own RVF post. Assess quickly if these girls have boyfriends and seem in love still and if so NEXT them. You’re working with limited time when on a poon vacation.
Shy blonde 8.5/9, 24, English Teacher
The pick of the bunch, a real gem. Very attractive girl, 180cm, long silky blonde hair down to her ass and large tits, who is actually quite geeky, slightly shy with men and doesn’t know she is as hot as she is. Yes I know she sounds made up but thats what I'm working with. Shame she may be frigid LOL.
The two times I’ve picked her up from the metro, both times when I have arrived she has been being hit on by a different Russian dude with no game. LTR material for sure.
Meet her through aforementioned indirect game social network and she really wants to meet to practice her English. Meet and quickly realise I have discovered a gem. Move her to a pub for food and immediately start gaming her. She is somewhat shy. I ask her if she is married as a joke and she replies yes without cracking a smile. She plays this charade for 10 minutes until I ask her where her ring is and she admits she isn’t married and is single. Strange behaviour and maybe I was telegraphing too much interest. Bounce her to cocktail bar, I sit on a sofa and she is sitting on the opposite chair across from a table. Tell her to sit next to me, which she is somewhat reluctant to do but she does.
Lots of attraction and comfort material from me and she is IOIng like mad and constantly rearranging her dress. She really doesnt know what to do with herself and is blushing. I am getting lingering kino in but anything like an arm around the back move is rebuffed saying she doesn’t like it when people touch her.
Cocktail bar closes and she says she has to get back home with a taxi. Again don’t try to bounce her for one last cocktail to my place because I am getting the vibe shes a fairly serious and shy girl and my kino has not advanced enough.
Next day I tell her to meet me for a coffee. She does and takes me to her favourite place where I work more comfort and attraction, she is having a great time. Leaving coffee shop I get my arm around her for 20 second intervals and then release and she is more or less comfortable with that. Hand holding is a definite nono.
She SMSes to see me the next day in the evening and we go to a restaurant. Im thinking this D3 is the moment I get to holding hands and make out. Starts off on the wrong foot as her instructions to the restaurant are not good and she gets cold. At the restaurant (to her credit only orders a dessert) she is pumping me for corrections to her English on the SMSes and asking me to explain difficult grammatical points from my SMSes (I am expert in English grammar). At this point I get the feeling I am being played for my English. Its Sunday so she says she’s going home as she works next day. Try to get my arm around the back and its rebuffed “touching makes me angry” though she continues being cordial with me. I seed a dinner at my flat and a movie and she agrees with no fuss. WTF!?
So we get to today where she comes round this evening. No idea how to play it. No idea what shes thinking. At 24 in FSU shes getting old for not being married but this girl is a mystery to me. Accepting an invite to dinner and movie at my place must be an IOI right? Confusing to say the least.
Girl next door 8, 20, Student
Brief one: Number closed her in local eatery after she was IOIing me after hearing me speak English with my wing. I join her group of guys and girls and quickly become AMOG, directing conversation flow. Confirm with her she is single and get her VK and number easily. She is super cute, slightly shy and very very feminine. Get her out for a coffee date and she is giving me enormous IOIs, looking down, blushing, twirling her hair etc. I kino her often.
On the walk back I try to get my arm around her back but she is uncomfortable and says that she had a boyfriend until 3 weeks ago and isn’t ready for another one. WTF LOL? I ignore and continue working comfort. She leaves and tells me the times she’s free to see me. Will have to get her out on a night time date.
All in all, the mentality of these girls is somewhat confusing when compared to my experiences with Western European girls. I am still working them out and establishing the optimum modus operandi.
Someone mentioned in a recent post (Kamaki?) that in general for affluent westerners, banging top shelf talent gets easier the poorer the country, but when you reach a threshold poorness level (Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus) bangs parodoxically get harder. This actually sounds about right and I have no idea why. At a certain poverty level. could us westerners be too disconnected from their day to day reality that it hinders our ability to truly read where we are in the seduction?