I am in my early 20s so would be interested in the perspective and opinions of the older cats on this forum. On what it was like gaming women 10-15 years ago. Have you noticed a big difference in the attitudes of Western women and has this led to you changing your gaming style ?

As feminism and the fast pace hook up culture becomes so deeply embedded, I imagine that direct game becomes more effective.

Nice idea for a thread.

I'm in my mid 20s, so I don't really know what gaming was like 10 - 15 years ago.

However, over the last 6 - 7 years there has been an enormous change due to social media and smartphones becoming widespread.

Generally, pretty much all women crave attention and social validation. Women used to only receive social validation from her family, friends, and occasionally men who would try to pick her up. Nowadays, social media/smartphones feed her brain with attention and social validation 24 hours a day. She has a thousand friends on Facebook, and all she has to do is post a selfie and she'll receive hundreds of 'likes' and comments from both men and women telling her how beautiful she is. If she creates an online dating profile, she'll receive thousands of messages within days. There is no way that one man could provide anywhere near this amount of social validation to a woman.

Other than that, women now earning just as much as men do has given them the freedom to only sleep with the top 5 - 10% of men in society. This is why now Game generally contains a very large lifestyle component, as opposed to 10 - 15 years ago when it was mostly "pick up" based, so to speak.

I think it's gotten easier for guys who are good at game, but harder for guys who are getting into it or are medium level or struggling with it.

Things have gotten more extreme and black an white.

I'm roughly a decade older, so I can't give all that much perspective. I can identify two major changes:

1. the way in which social media opened my eyes to women's behaviour. Even if you don't use any social media sites yourself, it's worth opening accounts to do some basic fact-checking against what they tell you.
I found that there is practically no correlation between a woman's appearance and her promiscuity. Some of the most attractive can be the most loyal and honest, and vice versa.

2. somewhat related to point 1: practically everything is caught on camera these days.

I feel that these changes have been the driving force behind the rise in men's movements. Promiscuity and sluttiness is simply harder for today's Facebook addicts to hide. I would say it's also likely that once-unacceptable behaviour has become more acceptable now that so much of it is caught on camera. Seeing this behaviour has destroyed the concept of marriage and relationships for a lot of men.


Edit: Biologist beat me to it, although I think I've covered more from 'our' side.

On a contrarian note, I think that the recession and removal of credit lines to average Joe has further increased the value of the 1%ers.

When I was 22, 10 years ago, every man and his dog had a Range Rover Sport on credit and was out buying champagne every weekend trying to impress women; all fuelled by the unsustainable property and credit boom.

These days, here at least, those of us with more sustainable means are more obvious and stand out more.

Also here in the UK almost unlimited immigration has upped considerably the standard of the average woman.

So for a RVF alpha male, things are good.

For everyone else…well, let em eat cake, frankly (the second time I've said this today haha).

15 years ago most girls didn't have cellphones so if you got a number, depending on her age, it was probably the landline to her parents' house where she lived. Naturally, numbers counted for more.

10 Years ago it didn't take much to chat up a girl.
Social proof was much more of a thing back in the day. If you weren't liked by a girls friends hooking up with her wasn't gonna happen. Girls being slutty still happened but it wasn't common knowledge like now.
You had Aim and MSN plus some really basic social media accounts pre-myspace.
There wasn't an interrogation with her asking for your social media accounts. IG, snap, FB, twitter etc.
If you had a cell phone 10 years ago it was used for calling people. SMS or texting was cost prohibitively expensive in the UK where i grew up.

If you had tight game cold approaching would net you crazy amounts of pussy on the down low.
Night clubs were about meeting people and not attention whoring and telling everyone how much fun you're having.

Getting laid was simpler. If you had solid game there wasn't social media to cockblock you. However if you were a loser no cute girls were interested in you, just like it is now, you got nothing.

Social Media.

Quote: (06-09-2014 12:26 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Social Media.

how do you explain a pre-social media world to someone who never experienced it?

1) Smart phones. They have utterly wrecked socializing. We are becoming a mockery of ourselves. Last Saturday I was at a nice bar and went to take a leak. Standing at the urinal next to me is a guy with one hand on his penis and the other on his smartphone gazing at the screen. Guy couldn't even put the fucking phone away to take a piss. Then I went to an outdoor pool party yesterday and you look around and chics are with their faces down just tapping and swiping away. Seemingly oblivious to everything going on around them. It's pathetic.

Reading Roosh's recent post on internet addiction, I've decided to try to eliminate all use of social media when I'm outside the house. No status updates, no posting photos. No constant checking for other people's updates. If someone texts me, cool. If I need to look up directions or some information fine, I'll do that and then put the phone the fuck away. Once you start making a conscious effort to temper your use of smart phones in public, you become even more acutely aware of the sea of blue face zombies are around you at all times.

2) People go out mainly to socialize with people they already know. The "single's bar" in now an anachronism. Such places were chastised as "meat markets", which is not cool in our hipster era. More and more venues are oriented around tables and VIP bottle service for those bringing groups of people. Ten years ago I wasn't rolling out solo like I do now, but I imagine that in 2004 and prior, it was much easier to roll solo game. I feel like society is just way more "social networky" now than ever. And I'm not just talking the world of game. Even finding work, everyone wants to see your linked in and want to see that you've been vouched for by all these people. People seem more cliquish than ever. People mingle less with random people outside their social network.

Women are very jaded now by male attention. I wrote about this the other day in a thread about flaking.

Social media and smart phones have allowed women to receive male attention 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Women no longer have to go out to a social setting to meet men; they can be home alone, in class, at work, with family, in bed, driving, etc. Notninly that, but because messaging a girl on a dating site or Facebook is very "safe" and about as impersonal and none confrontational as it gets, then men who would never approach a girl in real life can still talk to women.

This equates to women receiving attention and offers for dates all day every day from all men, as opposed to only when she's out physically and only from men who have the balls to go and approach them.

To this token, relationships are now meaningless because women always have lots of options and the offers are non-stop and glaring. They have friend zone orbiter dudes who will feed them attention and protect them when they need a male shoulder to lean on, and in the "have it all" life style they can find attractive but absent men to plow them when they want to "explore their sexuality"

Its honestly probably easier to hook up as long as you have game, but definitely harder (nigh impossible?) to find a good girl to go steady with.

Quote: (06-09-2014 12:29 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Quote: (06-09-2014 12:26 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Social Media.

how do you explain a pre-social media world to someone who never experienced it?

People actually spoke to each other when they were sitting next to each other at a bar, venue, etc. Instead of one their phones.

Girls weren't so attention thirsty whores: The hottest girl was the one in centerfolds, the hottest girl in your school, etc. NOT the girl with the most followers on Instragram.

Where you actually spoke on the phone and made plans. Where it was an actual shame to flake on those plans and the girl ACTUALLY felt bad.

The list goes on and on.

So much has changed, I'm 27. I remember when the internet first became popular. Where chatrooms were the first place I ever tried flirting online.

I'm a hybrid since I experienced the world without the internet and then adapted and exploited the internet.

Quote:Quote:

Its honestly probably easier to hook up as long as you have game, but definitely harder (nigh impossible?) to find a good girl to go steady with.

Exactly why I've foregone relationships and the thought of marriage. There is a steady go girl, but I've always assumed she's fucking someone else as I do the same.

I'd rather put the effort I'd use on a relationship on myself.

Texting, which is close to social media but not entirely the same thing.

Pretty young things get hundreds of texts.

This past Sat night I was hanging out with these 2 chicks. Every 5 minutes different dudes were hitting them up:

1) exbf sending long texts that were pretty beta & pathetic but she got really emotional reading them and even wanted to go meet up with him
2) dudes hitting them up "I got a jay, let's smoke it" "Hey got some vicodins. Come over."
3) dudes just flat out texting, "come fuck me"
4) "hey im at taco bell, come meet me and lets hang out.)
5) "im at the club. you should come."

My mind was blown. I teased them about it. They laughed and said, "yeah it's so much fun being popular and hot!"

Texting is totally different than picking up the phone and talking like it was 10 years ago because its a quick ping that requires less commitment from the girl but at the same time provides a 1000% more competition as a guy because the girl has so many options...free food, free drugs, free booze, whips & chains from a FB, etc.

Flaking as exponentially increased.

Online dating has gone from weird to socially accepted.

Everyone is wired into social media 24/7.

Girls don't do phone calls anymore. It's all texting.

Peak 90s feminism has experienced a major pushback.

Problems seem bigger because we're more aware of them.

Dating has become more confrontational for both genders.

Assuming we're talking about bagging young and hot chicks, and you don't look like a combination of CEO/Surfer/Male Model/Serbian Gangster

Back in 2004, you could be Mystery (night game, no fame, just a good rap).

In 2014 for the same results in quality and quantity, you have to be Roosh (day game), Soup (online game), or Christian McQueen (Club King).

Just knowing when to steer the conversation to "sexy time" isn't enough, because you can't get on a chick's radar just being good with your rap.

And chicks that don't fall into the hot bracket, their egos and dance cards are still inflated by internet attention.

Even if she doesn't deserve it, the thirsty guys (typically who have better bodies, better faces, more money, but no game) are more than willing to jump through her hoops in order to get a chance to fuck her.

And the alphas will just pick up pennies and nickles and toss them into the fountain for good luck.

That's how it looks on the macro-level.

On the micro level, it's pretty much the same. I know if I hit the right venue, ping the crowd, find the right target, I know my chances are pretty good. I don't know if it's rose-colored stunna shadez, but it seemed much easier and the chicks much better in 04.

WIA

As it's been said, numbers now mean literally fuck all. Even when I started not 4 years ago, a number meant far more and usually translated to at bare minimum a hangout. Now, you have to pull teeth, keep numbers for weeks, and throw low investment texts to get a simple reply.

Male feminism is at a retarded level nowadays too, something that a decade ago I could probably say was non-existent. I cannot believe this rape-hysteria and the white-knighthood today.

long story short..."young", western/white women (high school age to mid 40's) have become even more promiscuous than they were 10 years ago, ergo it is even easier to get laid than it was in 2004.

Quote: (06-09-2014 12:29 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Quote: (06-09-2014 12:26 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Social Media.

how do you explain a pre-social media world to someone who never experienced it?

Girls actually interacted with the world; weren't negative, snarky, and combative; could meet your eye instead of staring at the ground when they talked to you; had a realistic understanding of danger; were interested rather than disinterested in attention from men; and being considered 'hot' was the concern of teenagers, not 40 year old career women. Any girl who publicly-spoke of staying home all weekend to binge-watch television series would have been humiliated as a loser, not celebrated.

Now, there's always the sense that Millenial Girls don't quite understand genuine human emotions - their smiles are awkward and exaggerated, not natural. Everything is a performance. I'll observe girls in groups and note they're all running a series of parallel conversations as they attend to their mobile phones - they're all using groups for camouflage the fact they're all isolated, disconnected individuals faking personas of how they want to be perceived, because they're so desperately-insecure that their need to be liked to hold back a complete mental breakdown radiates from every fibre of their being.

They don't recognise men as real people. We are accessories, of no more import to her than the latest handbag, to be discarded when out of fashion, because they don't know how to truly-connect with one, and are terrified of being rejected even if they could.

Girls weren't always like this. 90% of the capability for fun and joy has been removed from them since my childhood and they're jaded by puberty. They're never existing in the moment, but thinking of how they're being observed by others, so even when they're happy, they're removed. The rest of the time, they're depressed worker drones, disconnected from whatever work they do, dreaming of something better, always dissatisfied, pissed off that the world has disappointed them and hasn't given them everything they obviously deserve, meaning their interactions with the world are shrouded in a cloud of misery, anger and bitterness.

I grew up with girls who would suggest breaking in to an abandoned building for the excitement, and you'd probably get a sly HJ out of the deal. Millenial Girls barely seem alive. Just my observation. If you haven't experienced them before, you won't realise how damaged they've become.

Interesting and I wonder what the effects this is having on men growing up. As a lot of boys growing up with change their behaviour to get women, it must have made some serious new trends develop.

What's funny is if we were asked this same question back in 2004 we'd be like "man, shit's bad right now, I don't know how it can get any worse."

Then it did get worse as evidenced here.

And it's gonna get even worse.

Quote: (06-09-2014 05:28 PM)monster Wrote:  

What's funny is if we were asked this same question back in 2004 we'd be like "man, shit's bad right now, I don't know how it can get any worse."

Then it did get worse as evidenced here.

And it's gonna get even worse.

The worst of this is the amount of flaking will get exponentially worse.

You already see all the threads adhering to this on RVF.

The notion that every guy a girl didn't want to fuck was a "creeper" or "stalker" only really started to gain traction in the last 6 or 7 years. When you use language that dehumanizes someone, it gives a good excuse to ostracize them. So now women feel comfortable ignoring someone's attempts at contact, and if the guy is dumb enough to try it 2 or 3 times without a response, it's easy to brand him as a "stalker."

With how ubiquitous smartphones are now, this kind of antisocial behavior towards men is even more common. If a guy isn't preapproved through some app on the girls phone, there's no reason to engage him or even treat him with an ounce of respect.

Quote:General Stalin Wrote:

To this token, relationships are now meaningless because women always have lots of options and the offers are non-stop and glaring. They have friend zone orbiter dudes who will feed them attention and protect them when they need a male shoulder to lean on, and in the "have it all" life style they can find attractive but absent men to plow them when they want to "explore their sexuality"

I think this is going to be the most significant effect of current trends that we're all noticing. Serious relationships are basically dead among the younger generations in places like the U.S. and Japan. If a girl can get another guy to use to fuck around on her long term boyfriend within 5 minutes (through online dating, her phone, etc.), just because she got pissed at him briefly, why do you want to be the guy investing in that kind of relationship? There's really no incentive for commitment from a man's perspective anymore.

Talking to older friends and growing up in this smart phone era it seems easier for the game aware male. If you know how to operate and break into social groups the ability to score is significantly higher than before. Girls who know you through other friends as the ghost member of the crew are increasingly interested and may even pursue you. The thing is females are more obsessed with their group their "inner circle" so to speak as those grant the highest validation(a sense of belonging and the target of her incessant posting as well as photos as they compete with other females in their group). In the past from what I hear they didn't have this generalization that "outsiders" were loser betas, but nowadays social media has created that generalization especially the thirstiest males. The curiosity from being the mysterious member of the group, but being close to the males in it is the ideal in this age. It's all about social proof. I'll do a more detailed data sheet on what I mean later, but I think this is the optimal game in the States now.

1 - More sausage fests - I can't quite prove it statistically but I'm sure that women are going out less nowadays. Also due to migration from socially/religiously conservative countries, the men tend to go out more than the women.

2 - Women are far more child-like now -- they literally hang on to each other for dear life in clubs, so much so that sometimes its hard to differentiate clingy friends from lesbians. Cockblocking is off the charts.

3 - On the positive note; it is easier to live a life of freedom from commitment. Girls don't mind if you pump and dump them...probably because they are doing the same to you.

4 - Oh and chicks fight a lot more now between each-other (often hilariously) but they'll fight men too.