I believe Giovonny is right... "Quality" of calories can affect inflammation which may influence fat loss or gain, besides the "quantity" of calories issue.

Take some clen and yohimbine and watch it melt like it's nothing.

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie; that different foods will have a different effect on your body (in terms of composition)...

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...professor/

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56...2D79329158

A calorie is a calorie.

Quote: (05-26-2014 06:44 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie; that different foods will have a different effect on your body (in terms of composition)...

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...professor/

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56...2D79329158

A calorie is a calorie.

Macro-nutrients bro. A calorie isn't a calorie. Re-read those articles. The Mcdonalds guy created a diet with McD's to meet his macros each day. If he didn't do that, it would have ended up way different.

Quote: (05-26-2014 09:50 PM)trojans10 Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 06:44 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie; that different foods will have a different effect on your body (in terms of composition)...

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...professor/

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56...2D79329158

A calorie is a calorie.

Macro-nutrients bro. A calorie isn't a calorie. Re-read those articles. The Mcdonalds guy created a diet with McD's to meet his macros each day. If he didn't do that, it would have ended up way different.

It wouldn't have ended differently for the McDonald's guy. I noticed that you completely avoided the professor that lost weight eating Twinkies and Doritos. Macros, eh? A calorie is a calorie.

Quote: (05-26-2014 10:31 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 09:50 PM)trojans10 Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 06:44 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie; that different foods will have a different effect on your body (in terms of composition)...

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...professor/

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56...2D79329158

A calorie is a calorie.

Macro-nutrients bro. A calorie isn't a calorie. Re-read those articles. The Mcdonalds guy created a diet with McD's to meet his macros each day. If he didn't do that, it would have ended up way different.

It wouldn't have ended differently for the McDonald's guy. I noticed that you completely avoided the professor that lost weight eating Twinkies and Doritos. Macros, eh? A calorie is a calorie.

"two-thirds of his total intake came from junk food. He also took a multivitamin pill and drank a protein shake daily. And he ate vegetables, typically a can of green beans or three to four celery stalks."

why did he do that then? of course you cna lose weight by eating less, but im talking about being a healthy individual at the end of your transformation. by all means go follow his diet and come back skinny fat.

Quote: (05-27-2014 01:49 AM)trojans10 Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 10:31 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 09:50 PM)trojans10 Wrote:  

Quote: (05-26-2014 06:44 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie; that different foods will have a different effect on your body (in terms of composition)...

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...professor/

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
http://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56...2D79329158

A calorie is a calorie.

Macro-nutrients bro. A calorie isn't a calorie. Re-read those articles. The Mcdonalds guy created a diet with McD's to meet his macros each day. If he didn't do that, it would have ended up way different.

It wouldn't have ended differently for the McDonald's guy. I noticed that you completely avoided the professor that lost weight eating Twinkies and Doritos. Macros, eh? A calorie is a calorie.

"two-thirds of his total intake came from junk food. He also took a multivitamin pill and drank a protein shake daily. And he ate vegetables, typically a can of green beans or three to four celery stalks."

why did he do that then? of course you cna lose weight by eating less, but im talking about being a healthy individual at the end of your transformation. by all means go follow his diet and come back skinny fat.

This thread is about getting rid of a belly, which is why I clarified my post by mentioning body composition. And in terms of body composition, a calorie is a calorie. You can eat donuts, cookies and cakes, or you can eat chicken breast, broccoli and brown rice. You'll lose weight either way.

Here's another example for you. There's a guy over at the bodybuilding.com forum. He went on a successful 8 week cut, and journaled his progress. His diet was quite strict, eating only cinnamon toast crunch cereal for breakfast, and whatever he wanted at KFC. How did this happen if a calorie were not a calorie?

Quote: (05-27-2014 08:21 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

This thread is about getting rid of a belly, which is why I clarified my post by mentioning body composition. And in terms of body composition, a calorie is a calorie. You can eat donuts, cookies and cakes, or you can eat chicken breast, broccoli and brown rice. You'll lose weight either way.

Here's another example for you. There's a guy over at the bodybuilding.com forum. He went on a successful 8 week cut, and journaled his progress. His diet was quite strict, eating only cinnamon toast crunch cereal for breakfast, and whatever he wanted at KFC. How did this happen if a calorie were not a calorie?

This is hamstering. I've been working out for over a decade and tweaking my diet throughout. A calorie is NOT a calorie. One must begin to speak from personal examples and couple that with scientific research as opposed to just reading what someone wrote online.
The best thing you can listen to is YOUR OWN body. You can find ANY study on the net to disprove anything.

You have studies disputing that protein enables muscle growth when weightlifting. Anyone who has worked out seriously on their body will know that you don't monitor your calories by replacing with Twinkies and bullshyt.

The point of this thread is NOT to reduce weight but to REMOVE belly fat.

I don't care if I weigh 260 pounds as long as my belly is flat and ridged.

I don't want to weigh 160 pounds if I look doughy without muscle definition and bear a slight or major paunch.

So saying a calorie is a calorie is incorrect.

Quote: (05-26-2014 06:44 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

To those that say that a calorie is NOT a calorie;

Please explain this:

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds

Or this:

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months

It's very simple to explain..

These lost weight because they ate less food.

They went from Over-Eating to Under-Eating.

*****

Its actually quite easy for an obese person to lose weight.

The simply need to stop eating so much.

That is what happened in those two cases

*****

However, those two cases do NOT prove that a "calorie is a calorie".

What about cholesterol levels, plague in the arteries, the threat of heart disease, free radicals in the body, the threat of diabetes, excess sugar in the body, excess saturated fat, etc.

None of these things are taken into account in those two examples..

They may have lost weight in the short term but what about the long term health effects of eating all that fast food..???

That is not discussed.

*****

In the documentary film - "Super Size Me" - The guy in the film ate McDonald's every day for a month. He almost died.

Fast food is not healthy food.

Are you suggesting that fast food is just as healthy as vegetables, fruit, wild fish, healthy meats, etc.???

No, you know that is not true..

That's why you say this..

Quote: (05-27-2014 08:21 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

in terms of body composition, a calorie is a calorie.

.."in terms of body composition"..

I respect you for correcting yourself here.

You know that "body composition" is just a measure of the persons total weight, size, etc.

It's not a measure of long term health ramifications.

It doesn't measure the increased risk of diabetes, heart disease, etc. that comes from eating too much fast food. It doesn't account for the lack of nutrients in fast food.

It is possible to lose weight eating fast food , but, that doesn't necessarily mean that one is losing weight in a healthy way.

Girls make themselves throw up to lose weight, it is very effective in terms of "body composition", but its not a healthy long term strategy.

You already know this.

*****

In terms of "losing weight", it is often true that a "calorie is a calorie".

But, we are not talking about losing weight. We are talking about losing a belly.

This is a bit more complex as compared to just "losing weight".

An obese person can eat some fast food and they will still lose weight, as long as they are eating less than they were before.

A person like Moma, who is already in relatively good shape but is just looking to improve their 6-pack/belly -- That person needs to be more careful and more precise about what he eats..

He has less room for error.

The weight loss of an obese person is much different than the 6-Pack Creation or Belly Reduction of an in shape person.

*****

I agree with you in terms of calories in vs calories out.. This concept is very important.

But, to suggest that eating "twinkies" and "McDonalds" is the same as eating fresh, wild salmon, yams, blueberries, spinach, carrots, garlic, kale, cucumbers, oranges, grapes, etc...

Well.. I think we can all agree that that is simply not true.

The quality of the food we eat has a great effect on our body.

*****

That said,

I want to thank you SteveCR for reminding us of the importance of "calories in vs calories out".

I do need to be more aware of that when I give advice on this stuff.

This is just a gentlemanly debate. This is nothing personal.

Thanks for adding to the discussion, even if we don't agree on everything.

Cheers!

Quote: (05-27-2014 09:14 AM)Moma Wrote:  

The point of this thread is NOT to reduce weight but to REMOVE belly fat.

People used to think that by doing crunches and training their abs they could specifically lose belly fat based on the idea that the muscles from that part of the body will first and foremost burn the fat from the adipose tissue nearby, i.e. the belly....that theory has been disproved long ago.

Same goes for eating. Men store extra calories on their bellies, that's just the way it is. There is no diet A for getting rid of a fat ass and diet B for getting rid of a belly.

Quote: (05-27-2014 04:30 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

People used to think that by doing crunches and training their abs they could specifically lose belly fat based on the idea that the muscles from that part of the body will first and foremost burn the fat from the adipose tissue nearby, i.e. the belly....that theory has been disproved long ago.

Same goes for eating. Men store extra calories on their bellies, that's just the way it is. There is no diet A for getting rid of a fat ass and diet B for getting rid of a belly.

Yes, but increasing protein will help us lose less muscle when we do try and lose fat.

Once I started juicing, I was getting some of the best sleep I could ever remember.

Drinking green tea has been said to help our metabolism.

So, what you eat is just as important as how many calories you are eating, imo.

As men, we want to lose fat and keep our muscle. Is that even possible on a low protein diet?

Quote: (05-27-2014 04:30 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Men store extra calories on their bellies

Not all men are the same. We all have different metabolisms and genetics.

We all store fat in slightly different ways. Some guys have allergies to wheat, etc.

Some guys can eat dairy products at night, and it has little effect on their belly.

Other men, eat dairy at night, and it will show up as fat on their belly by morning time.

To suggest that we are all the same.. Is, well, simply not true.

Quote: (05-27-2014 04:30 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

There is no diet A for getting rid of a fat ass and diet B for getting rid of a belly.

I will agree here.

But, there is a Diet A) for an obese guy trying to shed pounds.. And, a Diet B) for in shape guy who wants to maintain muscle while tightening up his belly.

The obese guy just needs to eat less. (and, exercise more) (it doesn't necessarily matter what he eats as long as he eats much less)

The relatively in-shape guy wants to keep his muscle weight.. So, he will likely eat the same amount of food but improve the quality of the food and optimize the time at which he eats it. (if he is trying to reduce his belly)

Again, its easy to "lose weight". Its hard to get a "6-pack".

Lets not confuse the two. They are different.

I absolutely 100% agree that what you eat greatly affects your health, but it is how much you eat that affects your body composition. I chose my words carefully. I was strictly speaking about weight loss (generally speaking, when anybody talks about losing weight, they are speaking of losing fat).

And in terms of weight/fat loss, a calorie is a calorie. In terms of health, completely different conversation. And since this thread is titled "Anyone got a belly that won't go away?" and not "How can I get healthier?", then the solution is to consume fewer calories (and/or burn more calories). I already gave a few examples of this, but people are going to believe what they want to believe, regardless of how much evidence is shown.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to choose. All food would be healthy and nutritious. Eating our normal diet would keep us lean and muscular, just as many wild animals are in their natural habitat. I most certainly agree that eating a diet rich in high-nutrition foods is the optimal diet for us. It is extremely difficult to be overweight consuming these foods in a low-processed form.

All diets work because of one reason: a reduction in calories. There may be special rules for the diet; foods that are banned. Paleo works because you can't consume dairy, grains, beans, etc., which causes you to eat fewer calories. Same with Atkins. Same with a high fat diet. Same with vegetarian/vegan. Same with intermittent fasting. Same with such rules as no eating after 8pm or no carbs at night. They all work (not because the foods they ban making us fat), because they are causing us to eat less. And this is because, when it comes to weight loss (or fat loss if you want to argue semantics) ... a calorie is a calorie.

East less and drink your protein shake. I think it´s that easy in terms of hard facts. But it´s like saying to a drug addict just quit. I don´t think one has to make a science about this.

But psychologically you have to be a hobby psychologist. You have to create an environment where the temptation is low. Having less stress in life helps too. That´s not easy.

I started a thread specifically to get rid of belly fat here:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-36419.html

so far I can feel my belly fat burning and its not sticking out as much after i eat

http://vimeo.com/18339967
10 things you need to know about loosing weight

Quote: (05-28-2014 09:58 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

I absolutely 100% agree that what you eat greatly affects your health

Of course, we can all agree on that point.

Quote: (05-28-2014 09:58 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

I was strictly speaking about weight loss

That may be why we have different strategies.

I am not talking about weight loss. I'm talking about maintaining the same weight or even gaining weight, while at the same time reducing the size of ones belly.

Quote: (05-28-2014 09:58 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

And in terms of weight/fat loss, a calorie is a calorie.

I generally agree.

However, in terms of belly reduction.. Some calories are better than others..

For example:

What if I was trying to get a "6-pack"..

I would obviously have to consume less calories and/or burn more..

But, What if all my calories came from Coca-Cola?

If I did that, I could lose weight but I would still be encouraging belly fat.

The "Coca-Cola" diet would likely produce a more "skinny fat" type of body.

It would be better to replace the coca-cola with vegetable juice.

Vegetable juice would leave no reminisce of fat around the belly. In fact, it would actually help dissolve a lot of the excess fat in and around the belly.

So, in terms of Belly Reduction.. I don't believe all calories are created equal.

If you wanted to lose your belly, drinking vegetable juice would be better than drinking Coca-Cola.

I used to be "4 months pregnant" and completely eliminated my belly using this protocol:

- no wheat and dairy; this is the core.
- only drink pure water and nothing else; no canned drinks, no coffee or tea, nothing.
- eat only beef and chicken meat, eggs, fruits and vegetables.

I am looking much better now. I can see the top 4 of my six pack and my face changes too.

Edit: take coconut oil for carb/sugar craving.

Is dairy truly bad? Cottage cheese, yogurt, no good? It's a great protein source. But maybe I should try eliminating it and just add more powder.

Quote: (05-28-2014 02:47 PM)roid Wrote:  

I used to be "4 months pregnant" and completely eliminated my belly using this protocol:

- no wheat and dairy; this is the core.
- only drink pure water and nothing else; no canned drinks, no coffee or tea, nothing.
- eat only beef and chicken meat, eggs, fruits and vegetables.

I am looking much better now. I can see the top 4 of my six pack and my face changes too.

Edit: take coconut oil for carb/sugar craving.

You're losing fat because you're eating fewer calories. Banning foods from your diet is doing nothing in and of itself.

Quote: (05-28-2014 04:23 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Is dairy truly bad? Cottage cheese, yogurt, no good? It's a great protein source. But maybe I should try eliminating it and just add more powder.

Do you get gas when you eat dairy? Does your stomach hurt? Do you get diarrhea? If you can digest dairy, then dairy is fine for you.

Quote: (05-28-2014 01:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I generally agree.

However, in terms of belly reduction.. Some calories are better than others..

For example:

What if I was trying to get a "6-pack"..

I would obviously have to consume less calories and/or burn more..

But, What if all my calories came from Coca-Cola?

If I did that, I could lose weight but I would still be encouraging belly fat.

The "Coca-Cola" diet would likely produce a more "skinny fat" type of body.

It would be better to replace the coca-cola with vegetable juice.

Vegetable juice would leave no reminisce of fat around the belly. In fact, it would actually help dissolve a lot of the excess fat in and around the belly.

So, in terms of Belly Reduction.. I don't believe all calories are created equal.

If you wanted to lose your belly, drinking vegetable juice would be better than drinking Coca-Cola.

Why would drinking Coke encourage belly fat? Let's take a look at what Coke primarily is - sugar and water. Why would the calories from sugar encourage belly fat, but the calories from the sugar in vegetable juice would not encourage belly fat? Sugar is sugar, and calories are calories.

You're thinking about it like a lab experiment. In real life, after you drank the Coke you'd probably get even more hungry and then drink the vegetable juice also, and then eat some extra food on top of that.

I think what SteveCR is trying to say is that as long as you have a calorie deficit you will lose weight. If you are eating 1800 calories to lose weight, it does not matter at all whether you only drink Coke, or if you eat 4 Chicken breasts and 6 plates of broccoli. Either way you will lose fat.

Now, if you want to be healthier and not just skinnier, your diet should be as balanced as possible, hitting all Macros, getting vitamins and nutrients, etc. Also, you cannot specifically lose weight from a specific spot. Where on your body you store fat it totally up to your genetics, and where you lose it from and in what order is also totally up to genetics. Nothing you can change about it.

And in regards to dairy, it's really not good for you past childhood. It has been linked to increased rates of cancer due to the growth hormones, and most people are intolerant to dairy in some way or another, either through bloating, diarrhea, or other symptoms. It also causes acne, again, due to the hormones. I still eat cheese, but no longer drink milk. I use almond milk for protein shakes, it's not very expensive.

Try having sex every day, it cuts down on your junk food eating and gives your a good exercise.

Quote: (05-28-2014 06:45 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

Quote: (05-28-2014 02:47 PM)roid Wrote:  

I used to be "4 months pregnant" and completely eliminated my belly using this protocol:

- no wheat and dairy; this is the core.
- only drink pure water and nothing else; no canned drinks, no coffee or tea, nothing.
- eat only beef and chicken meat, eggs, fruits and vegetables.

I am looking much better now. I can see the top 4 of my six pack and my face changes too.

Edit: take coconut oil for carb/sugar craving.

You're losing fat because you're eating fewer calories. Banning foods from your diet is doing nothing in and of itself.

I eat up to 1 kg of beef steak per day and at least half a dozen of eggs per day. I hardly think it is a reduction of calories.