Quote: (12-28-2013 10:15 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2013 07:49 PM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2013 06:29 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

Yes, tips are a way to externalize costs. But haven't you thought this through yet? If the bar had to pay the bartender the same salary, drinks and food would be that much more...across the board.

You're paying, one way or the other.

Wrong. I let the more altruistically inclined people give 20-40% tips and let them subsidize my low/no tipping policy. Best of both worlds.

You sound like a real baller.

Why bother wearing a suit if you're going to be a cheap ass? Nothing worse than lack of congruency.

This is the same guy who said in another thread that unless you had 10 million in liquid assets, you can't afford drive anything better than a Toyota Corolla.

He also rants goes on about the need to create generational wealth, like the Lannisters.

I can't tell if he's a troll or not.

Time will tell.

I'm leaning towards troll.

He claims to have a job that requires him to wear a suit and take out clients and show other clients around.

1. He doesn't tip. (People notice when peole don't tip. I make it a point when hanging out with a new person to see how the person tips.)

2. He doesn't wear a watch.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31541-...#pid614945 ("Why would anyone waste $500 let alone $5000 on a watch? I have a $35 phone …")

3. He doesn't' drive a nice car.

4. He doesn't know the difference between "moot point" and "mute point." He misuses it twice:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31541-...#pid615228 ("This of course is all a mute point")

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31519-...#pid615610 ("This does not happen all the time so it is usually a mute point.")

Now I agree philosophically that cars and watches can be empty status symbols. No debate there.

But if you're in a job with face time with clients and not showing some flash and tipping and you try using big boy words and can't get it right…Sorry, that's bullshit.

Don't be this guy, guys:

New troll type...Frugal Baller Troll

Flavius has me on ignore. I never even heard of him until this thread.

Quote: (12-29-2013 01:27 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

New troll type...Frugal Baller Troll

Flavius, when in Rome...

And what if I ask for your ID at the door? You're going to do a 180?

I'm pretty suprised that nobody mentioned French Canadians as being horrible tippers. They are definitely among the worst, although some people consider people from Italy to be worse. One time during a rare trip within the city limits of D.C., I was having dinner at bar in Georgetown. A couple from Montreal asked me how much they should tip. I said, "30 to 40 percent. Don't even think of leaving less than 30%" The bar ended up comping my dinner.

Quote: (12-29-2013 01:19 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I'm leaning towards troll.

He claims to have a job that requires him to wear a suit and take out clients and show other clients around.

1. He doesn't tip. (People notice when peole don't tip. I make it a point when hanging out with a new person to see how the person tips.)

2. He doesn't wear a watch.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31541-...#pid614945 ("Why would anyone waste $500 let alone $5000 on a watch? I have a $35 phone …")

3. He doesn't' drive a nice car.

4. He doesn't know the difference between "moot point" and "mute point." He misuses it twice:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31541-...#pid615228 ("This of course is all a mute point")

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31519-...#pid615610 ("This does not happen all the time so it is usually a mute point.")

Now I agree philosophically that cars and watches can be empty status symbols. No debate there.

But if you're in a job with face time with clients and not showing some flash and tipping and you try using big boy words and can't get it right…Sorry, that's bullshit.

He could be a real estate agent, insurance agent, VIP Host at a whack club, car salesman....There's plenty of low end jobs that involve "wear a suit and take out clients and show other clients around". suits have lost their meaning IMO.

I remember being 26. I thought I had it all figured out too.

But I always have over tipped. Having worked in hospitality does that to a person.

Mike is right, I always notice what people tip. On the rare occasion my mom takes the whole family out to dinner, I always stick an extra $20 or two in there to make up for her strict 15% not on the tax tip.

I tip occasionally, for maybe 5-10% of the bill amount. However, if I lived in the USA I'd still be tipping the same. I want to be tipping for great service, not because I am expected to subsidize greedy employers who can't be bothered to pay their workers more than the minimum wage.

Quote: (12-29-2013 11:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I tip occasionally, for maybe 5-10% of the bill amount. However, if I lived in the USA I'd still be tipping the same. I want to be tipping for great service, not because I am expected to subsidize greedy employers who can't be bothered to pay their workers more than the minimum wage.

ok this is the last time I explain this.


If bar paid employee total market rate for work / no tips
cost of drink: $5
cost of labor: $1
Total Cost: $6
Bill: $6
Bill Paid: $6
Tip: $0
TOTAL EXPENSE TO CONSUMER: $6


If bar pays minimum / plus tips
cost of drink: $5
cost of labor: $1
Total Cost: 6$
Bill: $5
Bill Paid: $5
Tip: $1
TOTAL EXPENSE TO CONSUMER: $6

There - is that clear enough now?

However there is more to it. The consumer is actually benefiting here. Let me explain:

Typically, all credit card tips are reported and some portion of cash tips are (sometimes zero) which means that the employee is saving money on taxes (cheating) and the employer saves some money on payroll taxes (cheating).

If all service costs were included in your cost of drink then not only would the labor cost be included but then something to make up for the extra payroll taxes would be as well.

So instead of feeling like you're being screwed, which you aren't, think of it as a conspiracy where you, the employer, and the employee got together and figured out a way to bilk the US Government so that you all have to pay a little less for the drink you just had.


* - in my example overhead, profit, other expenses all included in cost of drink

Quote: (12-29-2013 01:00 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  

1. I don't tip if I get carded. This does not happen all the time so it is usually a mute point. Sorry If I refuse to produce my papers for non law enforcement personnel--Apparently that is taken as attitude.

They have to do what their bosses tell them to do, that and its the law.

The one time I regretted a tip: in Canada each province has a provincial/federal tax and in Alberta its 5%, so to make it easy I just triple the tax on the bill for a standard tip. I was home in Nova Scotia for a visit and I took my parents out for a nice supper and the bill was pretty big, mostly due to the liquor we drank. I went to pay and I tripled the tax as I usually do, but being in the drunken stupor that I was, I forgot that in Nova Scotia the tax is a whopping 15%, so I gave this girl a 45% tip. I was wondering why she so so nice and thanking me so much, then I looked at the bill in the morning and realized what I had done, $120 tip.

I just don't get tipping bartenders super fat like some people.

A waitress, ok. I can get that. She has to take your order, bring your food and set it right in front of you, bs with you for a minute to get you comfortable, refill your drinks and take your plates away. With all that considered, you would be a dick if you didn't leave her a decent tip.

But bartenders are almost always aloof and dickish in the way they approach you or take your order. A lot of times I won't even get a "hey how are you doin, what can I get for ya". Just an upward head jerk like wtf do you want, or "yeah?". Then they pour your drink and bring it to you. The whole process took less than 30 seconds and they walked like 4 paces from the middle of the bar to where you're sitting. I don't even see how this warrants a $1 tip. I guess if you're trying to "lock" a place down it makes sense. I just feel like its supplicating to give extra money to this guy with a bad attitude just to get him to like me and give me free shit. Doesn't really jive with who I am, but if hes actually a cool guy and doesn't seem like a dick then I might leave a buck or two in good spirits.

^Start tipping better, and you will find that they stop treating you that way.

afg:

well its proportionate right? i mean, $1 isn't much. but a waitress could get $16, for example, on a $80 check.

sometimes i think that being a bartender would be the job I would hate the most in the world. on a busy night at a busy place, the entire bar 2 or 3 people deep staring at you trying to get your attention..everyone getting drunker and drunker, yelling at you, getting all impatient and pushy...seriously, like 40 sets of eyes on you at a time waiting for you to service them.

no thank you

also important to know where you are and the difference in best course of action. if you're at a big ass club with transient crowd, its going to be more difficult to get in good with a bartender by being cool and talking and what not. dropping a $10 or $20 on the first round and always going back to the same guy should really go a long way in terms of getting you better service, especially if there are hundreds of people there trying to get drinks. wont likely get you free stuff but when they have 20 different people they could go to next, they will likely go to you.

a normal medium sized place in a neighborhood will be easier to use your charms and being cool to get favor with them, and then the tip can follow. but i always tip big at places i know i'm going to return to. it always pays off. people always remember. the staff talks. even the hostess will know. the barbacks will know. this is where you can get free stuff, premium and priority seating and have the GM and whoever else come by the table and ask you if everything is going well.

money makes the world go 'round. just is fact. be thoughtful in the way you spread these little amounts around and they can create leveraged returns for you.

^ You're arguing with little kids, man.

Those who know, know.

I think there are two approaches to game.

There's an antagonistic approach as represented by that sigma lone wolf who gives a middle finger to society and has a sort of freedom that it is the opposite side of the coin of the other.. The alpha king. It's kind of like Robin Hood vs. The King.

Women are drawn to both types of men because both have power. The king has institutional power whereas the Robin Hood is not bound by any rules.

Both have their pros and cons.

As far as tipping is concerned, I think it's better to be the king instead of the lone wolf. You embrace the practice of greasing people because of the social karma (getting hooked up, served or admitted before others etc.) Over the last few years I've been trying to do more king game than wolf game when it comes to venues, especially the ones I often frequent.

I believe that this is the overall more mature player decision to make.

You guys who are being cheapskates when it comes to tipping probably have other problems in your game that stem from trying to be antagonistic in the wrong areas. There is a time and place for that, but tipping isn't one of them.

There might even be some kind of subconscious "inner game" thing that is affected by how you tip.

It comes down to the fact that the people who don't tip don't realize the benefits of tipping because they've never tried it.

Any spot I regularly drink at, the bartender isn't ringing in everything I order, giving me stronger drinks, he's buying me shots, he's quick with the refills, giving me social proof, not ID'ing the chick I'm with.

And for what? A few extra bucks.

Think of it this way:

You have two drinks at the bar. Bill comes to $16.

$2 tip and you're cheap.
$3 tip is decent.
$4 is damn good.

$2 fucking dollars is the difference between getting ignored and getting free shit. A single dollar is the difference between being some random guy and making an impression. Leave $5 and they love you.

Obviously, drink prices and bills are going to vary but if $5 or $10 is going to break you, why are you even there in the first place? Why are you ringing up a $100 tab if the extra $15 to leave an appropriate tip is too much? Drinking at the bar is not how you save money.

And who the hell cares whether you agree with tipping? If it's a custom in the country you're in, why would you shoot yourself in the foot over a few dollars? I'm wondering if these same people are in other countries doing culturally offensive shit to the natives and wondering why they're not seeing the results of some of the other guys on the forum.

Quote: (12-29-2013 07:15 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

^Start tipping better, and you will find that they stop treating you that way.

Perhaps you misread my post, or didn't get the jist of what I was saying.

These are bars I haven't even been to before. I am a customer choosing to spend my cash there (for the first time).

I approach the counter to buy a drink (and possibly tip if they don't suck at taking orders).

Instead of "Hows it going, what can I get ya" I get an upward head jerk or sometimes even an impatient blank stare or scowl.

Maybe if these jerkoffs expect "fat tips", then they should work on making a better first impression to new customers. Giving them extra money when they, so far, have done nothing to warrant any further business from my part seems as backwards as it can get.

Its like their trolls guarding a gate, and in order to get in their good graces I have to bribe them before I judge or even experience the service that im bribing them for.

I thought you leave a fat tip when someone is prompt and does their job right or exceptionally well. Its a REWARD for the service I received. And it continues from there.

I'm not even mentioning the times when ive tipped well and my drinks still came late, weak and skimped.

Maybe I have the whole tipping system backwards. I guess im not desperate enough for their friendship.

I saw some video on human psychology that showed that even a token gesture (like a waiter leaving a mint with a check), can go very far towards winning people's confidence.

I would cut Beyonce and JayZ some slack - if you're trying to go through clubs or bars incognito, you don't want to draw lots of attention to yourself by big-balling at every opportunity. You'd instead look around to see how all the other ordinary jerkoffs tip and act accordingly.

Everyone knew who they were.