from 4:23 to 5:35.. I dont know if this is been posted on this thread, I didnt see it, just wanted to see whats you guys take on it...

I think I posted in this thread already but the atheist crowd attracts a lot of disenfranchised losers who give atheism a bad name. These guys want so badly to confront people and be correct on the internet that they'll side with atheism to win minor ego battles on message boards.

Religion in general has the same sort of dogmatism but their losers don't pollute the internet with "JESUS SAVES" as much as those dawkins-atheists spam the shit out of youtube and facebook with their negativity and pretend intelligence bullshit.

Quote: (09-18-2013 12:07 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I think I posted in this thread already but the atheist crowd attracts a lot of disenfranchised losers who give atheism a bad name. These guys want so badly to confront people and be correct on the internet that they'll side with atheism to win minor ego battles on message boards.

Religion in general has the same sort of dogmatism but their losers don't pollute the internet with "JESUS SAVES" as much as those dawkins-atheists spam the shit out of youtube and facebook with their negativity and pretend intelligence bullshit.

Until you hit Kansas and see a whole conference area dedicated to "Darwin is Wrong".

I'd call myself religious (at least inclined in that direction for reasons outside of personal faith; I really don't care all that myself), but people will take stuff to absurdity. Both sides.

In my view atheism is as much of a religion as any other. They're taking the idea that there is no higher power on faith as much as those who believe there is one. They claim they only believe in shit they can see, but there's plenty of shit they've never personally observed that they take people's word for.

Truth is, no one knows for sure what happens after you die, and anybody who says they do is probably going to ask you to give them some money next.

Anyways, I usually think of super religious people as follower type motherfuckers. Not to say that they're bad people, the world would probably better off with fewer shade-tree ass scumbags, and more of those types. I'm just saying that they tend to be the "nice" people, who always follow the rules, and do what they're told. I think that being the type of person who gets your religious and moral principles and beliefs from a book (or the mouth of another man) rather than through self exploration and experimentation makes you more susceptible to falling into the matrix. I'm not trying to knock all religious people. there are shades of grey here.

But the one thing I've always wondered is whether the grimey religious people, the ones who are getting over, are true believers or putting on an act. One of the slimiest, grimeiest (and I mean shady in a real sneaky bitch-made type of way) guys I knew was a hard core Christian. For all the dirt this guy was doing, he was always "in character" acting like he was this clean cut, super moral, holy roller. I never could get a read on whether or not he believed his own bullshit.

No offense superbeasto but atheism is not a religion. No atheist claims to know anything outside of the empirical. Using your own logic, my guess that immediately upon death you are strapped into a never ending roller coaster is as plausible as heaven or hell. You make a positivist claim which cannot be disproved - antiscience essentially. Atheists make no claim at all, hence its not a religion. Check out Hannah Arendt. She talks at length about people who blindly follow rules without thinking for themselves. That personality type enabled the holocaust. I do agree with you though, in my personal life I have found that religious guys tend to be better friends. Republican guys, those who actually live the republican ideal, that is, scrap for their own bread and live a clean life, also tend to be better friends. Who knows. Also on a personal note I have different sides to my personality. Rationally I know religion is bullshit but when times are tough I say a prayer. Its a weird thing!

Quote: (09-22-2013 07:42 PM)Chillen0707 Wrote:  

No offense superbeasto but atheism is not a religion. No atheist claims to know anything outside of the empirical. Using your own logic, my guess that immediately upon death you are strapped into a never ending roller coaster is as plausible as heaven or hell. You make a positivist claim which cannot be disproved - antiscience essentially. Atheists make no claim at all, hence its not a religion. Check out Hannah Arendt. She talks at length about people who blindly follow rules without thinking for themselves. That personality type enabled the holocaust. I do agree with you though, in my personal life I have found that religious guys tend to be better friends. Republican guys, those who actually live the republican ideal, that is, scrap for their own bread and live a clean life, also tend to be better friends. Who knows. Also on a personal note I have different sides to my personality. Rationally I know religion is bullshit but when times are tough I say a prayer. Its a weird thing!

If you are an atheist, then you are already making claims about God, which is outside of the empirical. Hence Atheism qualifies as a religion.

you are right, so i guess we are "agnostic." its really semantics. i put forth no claim of knowing what happens in the afterlife, and dismiss anyone who claims they do. simple as that really. term that as you will.

Quote: (09-22-2013 08:09 PM)Chillen0707 Wrote:  

you are right, so i guess we are "agnostic." its really semantics. i put forth no claim of knowing what happens in the afterlife, and dismiss anyone who claims they do. simple as that really. term that as you will.

Yes. Agnosticism is skepticism, and is the true opponent of religious people, not atheism. Atheism is small potatoes compared to Agnostics.

Quote: (09-22-2013 09:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-22-2013 08:09 PM)Chillen0707 Wrote:  

you are right, so i guess we are "agnostic." its really semantics. i put forth no claim of knowing what happens in the afterlife, and dismiss anyone who claims they do. simple as that really. term that as you will.

Yes. Agnosticism is skepticism, and is the true opponent of religious people, not atheism. Atheism is small potatoes compared to Agnostics.

Are you unsure of whether or not 1+1=2?

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Definition of Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is not a religion.

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:39 AM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Definition of Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is not a religion.

Yes it is bro. You're professing to believe in something with no evidence for your belief.

Quote: (09-23-2013 01:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:39 AM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Definition of Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is not a religion.

Yes it is bro. You're professing to believe in something with no evidence for your belief.

There's a distinction to be made here that you've glossed over. One doesn't "believe" in atheism. Rather, an atheist rejects and refuses to believe in all supernatural deities. The entire viewpoint is structured around nonbelief. Big difference.

Theist belief systems include the belief: 'A personal deity exists.'
Atheist belief systems lack that belief. That is it.

I could be described as secular humanist, or classically liberal, and both are atheist belief systems.
You can still be a religious adherent of classical liberalism, e.g. when you combine two systems.

Most (all) economic theories are atheist, since they do not talk about deities. That does not make them religions.
My internal maps (belief systems) about my neighborhood are also atheist.

To explain it further:

1. Everyone's internal map of the world is composed of many general belief systems.
Some add to each other (Math 101 and Math 201, How To Cook and How To Wash Dishes).
Some do not mix (Pacifism and Genocidal Lust).

2. Most belief systems are not defined by the inclusion (or exclusion) of the belief in a god.
Like economic theories.

3. Some are defined by that.
Christianity, Islam: Must include belief in god.
Secularism: Must exclude belief in god.

4.You cannot at the same time hold a theistic and a atheistic belief system.

5. You're religious if one of the systems you hold, includes the belief 'a god (or two) exists'.

But let's say we just can't say whether or not a god exists (for the sake of argument).

First problem, we also don't know what his demands are. Which texts are his word? What rules should we follow?
How can we discriminate between the actual wisdom of the galactic boss, and texts written by angry sand men?
This seems to be a problem to many people. God doesn't visit here that regularly.
For some strange reason he prefers communicating with us by making statues cry red liquid.

Second problem, he sounds like a mean person I would not respect. But listen to him, or else...
Being red pill, should I go to church out of fear?

Lastly, why would he care, and write prescriptive texts?
He's an almighty king of kings, why is he emotionally affected by what we eat?
Why does he have such strong opinions about what those puny humans do on that puny planet?
Especially when it concerns their naughty parts?

Don't these sound like human concerns, written down to codify community-stabilizing rules in uncertain times?

-deleted-

The fundamental problem that I have with most religions is the idea that god wants to be worshipped. Wanting to be worshipped is a rather human desire an you would thing that any sort of supreme being would have gotten past that. It's like a human being wanting to be worshipped by ants.

I guess you could say that we are god's special pets or something. Even then, you might have a dog and want its obedience and want it to perform a few tricks to show how well trained it is. Who would want their dog performing elaborate rituals, though? If there is a god, he seems like a real douche.

That said, I believe their is a totality to the universe, an ultimate causality that eludes our scientific capacity, and if you want to call that god, I've no philosophical problems with that.

Quote: (09-23-2013 01:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:39 AM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Definition of Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is not a religion.

Yes it is bro. You're professing to believe in something with no evidence for your belief.

This thread depends on how you define god.

Also, you talk about praising your parents. What if your parents enable the suffering of billions of people. Would you still praise them?

Quote: (09-23-2013 05:23 AM)sixsix Wrote:  

But let's say we just can't say whether or not a god exists (for the sake of argument).

First problem, we also don't know what his demands are. Which texts are his word? What rules should we follow?
How can we discriminate between the actual wisdom of the galactic boss, and texts written by angry sand men?
This seems to be a problem to many people. God doesn't visit here that regularly.
For some strange reason he prefers communicating with us by making statues cry red liquid.

Second problem, he sounds like a mean person I would not respect. But listen to him, or else...
Being red pill, should I go to church out of fear?

Lastly, why would he care, and write prescriptive texts?
He's an almighty king of kings, why is he emotionally affected by what we eat?
Why does he have such strong opinions about what those puny humans do on that puny planet?
Especially when it concerns their naughty parts?

Don't these sound like human concerns, written down to codify community-stabilizing rules in uncertain times?

Most of this thread is about semantics. I posted the dictionary definition of "religious" here, and even Samseau, writer of great posts on game, can't detach himself from his emotions and tries to change the meaning of the definition.

That's like women complaining that the speed of light has male bias in it.

Words have set meaning.

I've watched many debates between atheists and religious people. Not once have the religious won the debate. Yet, the still keep coming back for more. The ultimate trolls.

Like feminists, the religious only care about their self-interest, not what is good for society as a whole.

Quote: (09-23-2013 09:21 AM)soup Wrote:  

Words have set meaning.

Maybe this is why feminism is so prominent in English speaking countries. We have so many different definitions for every word that no one knows what the fuck means what anymore and it's all actually a huge misunderstanding and we're really all on the same side.

Quote: (09-23-2013 05:13 AM)sixsix Wrote:  

Theist belief systems include the belief: 'A personal deity exists.'
Atheist belief systems lack that belief. That is it.

Disbelief is a belief. Try again.

The only correct answer is "I don't know," which isn't a belief but the inability to believe.

Atheism is technically not a religion per se. Religion and atheism are both dogmas which is what everyone seems to be beating around the bush for.

English semantics aside,

I'm a troubleshooter, it's my job. I naturally question everything and think critically about what is being fed to me.

I suggest one do the same for religion and anything else that someone else is sending you. I approach religion more in an allegorical sense.

Quote: (09-23-2013 07:20 AM)j r Wrote:  

The fundamental problem that I have with most religions is the idea that god wants to be worshipped. Wanting to be worshipped is a rather human desire an you would thing that any sort of supreme being would have gotten past that. It's like a human being wanting to be worshipped by ants.

The Christian God does not want to be worshiped.

Quote:Quote:

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 6

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

Prayer according to Christ is meant to be like talking to your Father in private about the ills you suffer, or the fortune you receive, but not a public spectacle meant to show your devotion.

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:39 AM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (09-23-2013 12:23 AM)Sherman Wrote:  

The popular form of Atheism today qualifies as religion. I think there is a definite difference between an unbiased inquiry into the truth vs. atheism (which is more like advocacy of a belief). Also, what is it with the popularity of ridicule ? This seems to be an atheistic ritual similar to the Puritans who would shame the sinners in order to reinforce their beliefs and enhance their feelings of goodness.

Definition of Religion: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.


Atheism is not a religion.

No belief in God is not a sufficient definition of Atheism. If you don't believe in a God, but you do believe in reincarnation, then you are not an atheist, in the sense that you believe that reality is something more than material. Many Buddhist don't have a concept of God but believe in rebirth, so it's not correct to call Buddhism atheistic.

Also, not having a belief in something is also a belief. It is common for believers to not realize that they have a belief. If you ask a Christian whether he is religious, he will say no, that he doesn't follow a religion he follows the truth, and the other sects are religions. A true Muslim will say the same. Ditto for the true atheist. They see their beliefs as knowledge and aren't aware that they are believing anything.

Also, as for science, the most verified laws of physics that you can depend on and call truth is Quantum mechanics. But the real quantum mechanics is a set of mathematic equations that describe a certain behavior in the world. Nothing more than that. Physicists don't even commit to any particular Ontology. They just say the truth is in the mathematics. So, physics at its most real says nothing about God. Furthermore, things like string theory and multiverses are mathematical speculation and have no more of a claim to scientific truth than theology, because they can't be verified by experimentation. But some atheists are willing to use multiverses as a rational explanation of their creator God "chance". But, since another universe, by definition is beyond experimentation (if we could reach it, it would be one universe), it follows that a multiverse theory has no greater claim to science then the notion of God.