Quote: (01-05-2013 06:25 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

@soup Are you arguing that someone could masturbate all day and still have the same level of "will power" to go out and approach women?

Technically, if you spend ALL day masturbating, eating, studying, working.. whatever, then there isn't time to flex your game even if you had the will power.

The will power is you making a decision to do something and actually getting it done. That's it.

I have a hunch that this whole no-fapp thing is a scapegoat for some other insecurity that is holding you back from exploring your potential. What is it- approach anxiety?

Quote: (01-05-2013 06:10 PM)soup Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2013 06:02 PM)RouteBackwards Wrote:  

Porn is a pretty big game killer and there was a time that I was convinced that watching porn constantly and maintaining a sex life could work... But of course it didnt and trying to get out and motivated enough to approach women without that animal instinct that pent up testosterone gives you, I just couldnt do it. The comfort of porn left me feeling content psychologically when it came to sex, but the desire of real physical women left a strange cognitive dissonance and feeling of failure that I kept leading myself to every time I would jerk off.

"but of course it didn't work"

No, your willpower wasn't strong enough. Stop whining and just do it. Your game should work irrespective of how you feel. Only women let their feelings push them around even when it isn't in their best interest. This is a giant hamster of a thread.

Maybe. It still motivated me enough to want to game and in turn become good at pick up. Quitting porn was all the push I needed at the time.

A man should not concern himself with another mans game if that man actively yields results through his own methodology.

Some use this as a scapegoat, in my case it lead me to succesfully motivating myself to actually speak to and bed women. Hence why I felt sharing my experience was relevant.

If a man shouldn't concern himself with another man's game, then why declare that not fapping is a game booster for guys in general?

I don't think you can say that masturbation is a motivation killer for everyman.

Honestly, if I don't orgasm regularly, either with a woman or by myself, my libido begins subside.

I find that the more I orgasm, the hornier I am etc.

Quote: (01-05-2013 10:21 PM)soup Wrote:  

If a man shouldn't concern himself with another man's game, then why declare that not fapping is a game booster for guys in general?

I don't think you can say that masturbation is a motivation killer for everyman.

Honestly, if I don't orgasm regularly, either with a woman or by myself, my libido begins subside.

I find that the more I orgasm, the hornier I am etc.

My apologies, rereading my initial post I came off as quick-fixish and had an everymans approach vibe. My point was that for some, and a lot of gentleman, masturbation and porn can be a deadly game killer. However I also see thay for some that this is an excuse for poor attempts at game. I think like any game principle, if this works for you in any way and is taken seriously it will be a game changer for sure.

@soup There are always exceptions to every generalization. Whenever I post a thread I am referring to the 70% of the population not the exceptions. Now, with that said, if you are claiming that after having an orgasm you are more motivated to go out and have another one then you are an exception. That's like saying that after you have eaten you want to go out and find more food! The human body does not work this way for most of us.

I believe what drives naturals isn't willpower but a natural tendency to horniness and urge to get laid. The AFC (or newbie to game) who rarely if ever gets laid doesn't have that shit under control and IMO something like NoFap can go along way fueling that sexual desire to get his dick wet with the real thing.

As long as I don't have a rotation of girls set up I can see NoFap helping me; to the guys that do, this whole regimen probably doesn't do much good.

[edit]

Let me be even more clear how I feel NoFap is helping me. It doesn't have anything to do with motivation to going out; I go out 5-7 times a week regardless of how I feel just out of habit. Where I think NoFap comes in is that it helps me to naturally telegraph sexual interest, and as of late I've noticed that I get boners much easier when I'm in a close contact with a girl at the club. In other words I'm sort of in harmony with my sexual desires as a man, with no trouble showing the girl I have a dick, figuratively, and sometimes literally. I also go out sober so I don't have alcohol to work my way through the wall of inhibitions.

Often, after I have just had sex and the girl has gone, I jerk-off to the memory of fucking her. That's how horny I am.

As I said, you are an exception. Most of us just go to sleep or get something to eat

Quote: (01-06-2013 01:20 PM)soup Wrote:  

Often, after I have just had sex and the girl has gone, I jerk-off to the memory of fucking her. That's how horny I am.

Quote: (01-05-2013 10:21 PM)soup Wrote:  

If a man shouldn't concern himself with another man's game, then why declare that not fapping is a game booster for guys in general?

I don't think you can say that masturbation is a motivation killer for everyman.

Honestly, if I don't orgasm regularly, either with a woman or by myself, my libido begins subside.

I find that the more I orgasm, the hornier I am etc.

I'm the same as you Soup, this no fap shit kills my libido, I get even fucking lazier and have blue balls weighing me down affecting my gym training too.

Quote: (11-14-2012 06:21 PM)soup Wrote:  

The only motivation you need to approach is sheer will, not some mumbo jumbo no fapp rule.

It might be true that women can sense the different post orgasmic states, but where are the studies on this?

Ultimately you are right about this soup. Regardless of your sexual state you can still approach and do everything - it just takes more will power and discipline. I've retrained myself to do this now BUT I still prefer to have the sexual drive not jerking off gives me. And for most guys, unless they have trained themselves to do this, they will need that drive.

I use masturbation as a way or rewarding myself for doing stuff like sending out ten messages to new girls on OKCupid.

So, when I'm really horny, I learn to tolerate the burn and build towards the future. This is just discipline plain and simple.

You don't get stuck in the moment. You are you now and in the future, and you look to your past to see what you need to do differently makes things better.

You have to see the whole system and not just your petty, fleeting feelings. That's what the whole red pill thing is- you have to see the matrix and interact with that.

It's working with systemic causation instead of a direct causation.

Everyone is assuming that masturbating has to end with ejaculation. You can masturbate all day long, on and off, and not ejaculate. Sex is meant to energize you, not drain you. It's only when you keep ejaculating that you lose your energy and motivation. So don't ejaculate. As soon as you're about to, just stop and do something else and get back to it later.

This is true. I believe there are some religions that suggest this too.

I quit fapping recently. I'm at 40+ days or something without fapping. The first two weeks were difficult, but now I don't even think about it anymore.

This is my longest ever streak. I have had two one nights stands during this time. But that is not the biggest change I have noticed.

Honestly, nofap is overrated. The claims include overwhelming confidence increase, high testosterone, women start gravitating to you, you speak more fluently and confident etc. Some of these are true, but they are only to the extent which you allow yourself to achieve. For instance, it increases your confidence because you are more horny all the time, so you actually want to be looking at women and holding eye contact. You speak more fluently because you focus more on what you are saying, because you are trying to share your inner self with those around you, the energy you contain within. These naturally make girls come to you. I don't know about higher testosterone, but I definitely want to hit the gym more because I want to release that tension built up.

I can't say I quit permanently. I just don't see a point in fapping right now. I don't have a consistent girl yet so it can be hard at times, but during the week when I feel that tension, I just save it up until I go out and I spread that energy with those around me.

Also, have had no problems with lasting during sex at all. Maybe it has to do with testosterone, don't take me for word on this but I believe high testosterone causes you to be more efficient and lasting during sex. I eat a diet high in protein and moderate in fats and I lift weights consistently.

The biggest thing any man however should commit to is quitting porn. That shit is kriptonite. Also, limit the fap to once a week, and don't do it to porn.

My 2 cents.

Is there some sort of no masturbation/no porn mutual support thread on here somewhere, or am I making that up? Or is this it?

Do a search for fapping and masturbation.

I wanted to update this thread based on my recent experiences and new thoughts on this.

First, I would like to state I don't think the answer is No Fap or Fap. The correct answer is, it depends on you. There are a number of variables you have to take into account: are you having regular sex with some girl, how high is your normal sex drive, do you masturbate to deal with stress, how important is it to concentrate on work, how often can you go out looking for girls.

If you stop fapping completely you will be forced to go out looking for girls more often, you won't be able to focus on work as much because you will be thinking about sex more often, and you will approach more girls and be more aggressive you will also come across as sex maniac - depending on the girl that can be either good or bad.

Personally, I think a middle ground would a better approach for most guys.

1. Cut out the porn. This messes you up in different way. Jack off to real girls you know and want to fuck.
2. If you are getting regular sex then don't fap at all - bang the girl instead.
3. If you are not getting regular sex then depending on your sex drive try to limit yourself to 2 -3 times per week.
4. Try not to do it at least a day or two before going out or on a date.
5. Do it if you need to focus on work. This will decrease your motivation to go out hunting.

What I do now, is to use it as a tool. When I want to focus on work I do it. When I want to get more motivated about getting girls I don't. Personally, I have found not jacking off at all and not having sex for a long period actually decreases my sex drive. I guess it's the old saying if you don't use it you lost it.

There are so many FAP threads on here. In fact, I didn't know what FAP was until recently. Why is there such a focus on "to FAP or not to FAP"? Jerk it or not, no real difference.

I've probably jerked off on average 1-2 times per day since I can remember. And as soon as I had internet (around age 18) the porn has been involved. The only exceptions are if I'm too busy traveling or working, or if some girl manages to finish me off 4-6 times in a day. And I'm not young anymore.

What's the big issue? I agree with Soup. I will fuck a girl, and she will leave, and then I'll get exicted about it and jerk off again. Hell, I will even go to a porn tube site and find a chick who looks like her to jog my memory.

The other week, I was busy with work and didn't have much time one Saturday. A girl in rotation came over early in the day for a swim and to fuck, which was good because I needed most of the day to work. Then after she left, I figured I would not be having sex again that day, and I wanted to reward myself for good work, so I jerked off twice over the afternoon/evening to todays sampling of the porn tubeing sites. THEN, at about 8 PM, another girl in rotation calls me up to see what I'm up to. Telling her I'm stuck at home, working, come by. So she does, and I ejaculate three more times between 11 PM and 10 AM as a result of her efforts. Then, she leaves, and later that day I'm jerking again. I see no downside to either porn watching, jerking, and handling girls. In fact, they all go along together nicely!

And for those who think watching porn is beta...what if that porn you are watching is porn that you've filmed yourself with one of your girls? Is that alpha?

Growing up watching porn has affected me with ED and no libido.
After cutting it out cold turkey with no pixel stimulation, everything became normal.
Your brain rewires itself if you are constantly jerking it off to fake shit and real girls don't turn you on.

@soup - It has nothing to do with willpower

@poutsara I have repeatedly stated your innate sex drive IS a factor. If you (like soup) have a very high sex drive then ye, you can jerk off all you want. But this is not most guys. Most guys don't have a super high sex drive so for them not jerking off makes a big difference in their motivation to find sex.

I believe in no porn, not no fap. I don't believe fapping is bad if you fap to 'healthy' thoughts. If I decide to masturbate, I train myself to think about real girls and not porn. It's hard, but it's doable... You lose your erection as well if you do this but it's good in the long run.

how would your body know the difference between nutting from having sex with a girl or nutting from imagination or seeing the image of one

Quote: (07-07-2013 01:37 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

@poutsara I have repeatedly stated your innate sex drive IS a factor. If you (like soup) have a very high sex drive then ye, you can jerk off all you want. But this is not most guys. Most guys don't have a super high sex drive so for them not jerking off makes a big difference in their motivation to find sex.

I get it and I agree that you are right - not everyone has the same sex drive. Alright, interesting thought here: if I had a lower sex drive, then I wouldn't care that much about game at all. In fact, I would be less likely to 1) maintain current girls 2) chase new ones and 3) watch porn anyway. All three of these have the same end goal. The first two are more gratifying, porn is easier.

If my sex drive was lower I would have so much more free time.

Quote: (07-07-2013 02:37 AM)Valhalla Wrote:  

how would your body know the difference between nutting from having sex with a girl or nutting from imagination or seeing the image of one

Trust me it knows. I have tested this extensively personally. Your body knows because you know. There is even a difference using a condom vs not using one and coming inside a girl pussy vs pulling out.

Quote: (07-07-2013 02:37 AM)poutsara Wrote:  

Quote: (07-07-2013 01:37 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

@poutsara I have repeatedly stated your innate sex drive IS a factor. If you (like soup) have a very high sex drive then ye, you can jerk off all you want. But this is not most guys. Most guys don't have a super high sex drive so for them not jerking off makes a big difference in their motivation to find sex.

I get it and I agree that you are right - not everyone has the same sex drive. Alright, interesting thought here: if I had a lower sex drive, then I wouldn't care that much about game at all. In fact, I would be less likely to 1) maintain current girls 2) chase new ones and 3) watch porn anyway. All three of these have the same end goal. The first two are more gratifying, porn is easier.

If my sex drive was lower I would have so much more free time.

Yes, all the more reason for guys with a lower sex drive not to lower it even more by jacking off too much.