Hi all,


Would love to get your opinions/thoughts on what I can achieve in 6-12 months of hard work at the gym and a cleaned up diet.

I work out 4-5 times pw: 3x5 mile runs at around 7.15-7.45 per mile; 2x weight sessions (compounds).

Have been doing this for about 6 months and maintained my weight despite heavy beer drinking and a 70% "clean" diet with lots of eating out.

So in many ways, it has been a success I guess.

But I'm getting tired of having the body of a 17 year old - it's time to get cut.

In the last week I met three girls, all good looking, one an absolute babe. Hit it off with them, talked about meeting up. Two flaked.

If I was in better shape it may not of happened. Who knows? Certainly wouldn't hurt!

So I'm planning on:

Dropping 6 pounds first in 6-8 weeks hopefully:

- Paleo diet for most part, with some grains pre or post workout but a low amount. e.g. taco tortillas or wholemeal bread. Circa 2000 cals pd.

- 3x weights, 3x cardio

- Swapping craft beer for vodka soda and drinking only when going out.

- EC stack. Done plenty of research, it's safe if done properly for most people.

- Big list of banned foods, e.g. chips/fries, white bread etc but mostly avoid these anyways.

I need some leeway for adding extra fat when bulking without my face getting puffy. At just 6-7 pounds more fat my face gets blobby.

Bulking for a solid 6 months:

- Get my cal uptake 300-600 above maintenance with shit loads of protein.

- Hiring a personal trainer once pw to nail my form on compound lifts.

- 3 weight sessions, one 30 min HIIT cardio, one 5 miler.

My goal is to add around 8 pounds of muscle and end up with the same fat levels roughly as I started with.

Here is me now:



I am 26, 5' 9'', 155 pounds, roughly 17-18% bf I think(?)

Any thoughts on my plans/goals or your own experiences would be much appreciated!!

J

How tall are you?

Quote: (06-27-2013 12:25 AM)Jbk Wrote:  

Hi all,


Would love to get your opinions/thoughts on what I can achieve in 6-12 months of hard work at the gym and a cleaned up diet.

I work out 4-5 times pw: 3x5 mile runs at around 7.15-7.45 per mile; 2x weight sessions (compounds).

Have been doing this for about 6 months and maintained my weight despite heavy beer drinking and a 70% "clean" diet with lots of eating out.

So in many ways, it has been a success I guess.

But I'm getting tired of having the body of a 17 year old - it's time to get cut.

In the last week I met three girls, all good looking, one an absolute babe. Hit it off with them, talked about meeting up. Two flaked.

If I was in better shape it may not of happened. Who knows? Certainly wouldn't hurt!

So I'm planning on:

Dropping 6 pounds first in 6-8 weeks hopefully:

- Paleo diet for most part, with some grains pre or post workout but a low amount. e.g. taco tortillas or wholemeal bread. Circa 2000 cals pd.

- 3x weights, 3x cardio

- Swapping craft beer for vodka soda and drinking only when going out.

- EC stack. Done plenty of research, it's safe if done properly for most people.

- Big list of banned foods, e.g. chips/fries, white bread etc but mostly avoid these anyways.

I need some leeway for adding extra fat when bulking without my face getting puffy. At just 6-7 pounds more fat my face gets blobby.

Bulking for a solid 6 months:

- Get my cal uptake 300-600 above maintenance with shit loads of protein.

- Hiring a personal trainer once pw to nail my form on compound lifts.

- 3 weight sessions, one 30 min HIIT cardio, one 5 miler.

My goal is to add around 8 pounds of muscle and end up with the same fat levels roughly as I started with.

Here is me now:



I am 26, 155 pounds, roughly 17-18% bf I think(?)

Any thoughts on my plans/goals or your own experiences would be much appreciated!!

J

5' 9''


Thanks

IMO you're lower than 18%. My guess would be 12-14%. The average person gets noticable abs at ~10%. In my experience the difference between 14% and 10%, even if its only 6-8lbs, can make a huge difference.

Its also very hard to tell with one picture, people carry their weight in different spots.

Quote: (06-27-2013 01:04 AM)_DC_ Wrote:  

IMO you're lower than 18%. My guess would be 12-14%. The average person gets noticable abs at ~10%. In my experience the difference between 14% and 10%, even if its only 6-8lbs, can make a huge difference.

Its also very hard to tell with one picture, people carry their weight in different spots.

Thanks for the feedback.

I did a calipher test at the gym and was 16.2% - I am contemplating doing a proper xray style scan for 125 bucks that shows with high accuracy where you have fat etc.

I have low bf from the waist down but I have some around my stomach/love handles and on my chest and lower back. I have long been concerned that I may have a bit of gyno as I have quite pronounced chest fat but it's part pecs.

I am pretty sure I am at least 15% bf as I have quite low muscle but it could be that the fat sits in certain places only and makes it more pronounced there.

The easiest way for you to not look like a 17 year old is to go buy a bottle of cheap rye whiskey at your local liquor store and drink it until you have some hair on that chest.

Just teasing you. Eat big and lift big. You're going to have to go through a fat period to gain muscle. I think VK wrote a post about this recently.

You need to do a clean bulk. Forget about 'aesthetics' and being 'ripped' for a good 2 years until you've built some muscle.

You can drop 6 pounds of fat in two weeks. Google "Protein Sparing Modified Fast". Do that first, no cardio, just lifting and kettlebell swings. It's basically eating lean meat and green veggies only, with a carb refeed once a week. You wont feel good, but, well, it strips the fat off. Then you can get to work.

When bulking, also forget 30 mins of HIIT and the five miler - instead do kettlebell swings twice a week. They keep your cardio/conditioning up but they also build strength, explosiveness, posterior chain muscle and, uhm, "bedroom stamina". They go better with building muscle than intense intervals or running IMO.

If I were in your situation I'd do nothing but a boring but big routine with twenty rep squats thrown in for like twelve weeks and gomad/dirty bulk on whole milk and donuts like a fatass.
I wouldn't bother with any hiit or cardio until I broke 175+ or turned into a giant tub of shit. I remember being 155 in high school and did not like it.

Maybe you want to tailor this approach because otherwise you're going to need all new clothes (especially pants) but I think it's worth considering.

You're 155lbs and doing cardio 3x a week?

This site is about travel and girls, go to bodybuilding.com or some other site for lifting advice.

Quote: (06-27-2013 02:27 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

You're 155lbs and doing cardio 3x a week?

This site is about travel and girls, go to bodybuilding.com or some other site for lifting advice.

You trying to say that if you train like a runner you will have the physique of a runner? You be crazzzy!

RioNomad is right; there really are much better places to look for fitness advice (as great as this forum is).

Check out this thread for some pointers about where to look:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-18371.html


That said...

I don't know what you're doing in the gym right now, but if your goal is to look bigger as soon as possible I would prioritize your traps and shoulders. Lats will help too.

By focusing on these three muscle groups you're giving yourself a bigger silhouette and working towards getting a V shape upper-body instead of the reverse. Look at your pic and imagine the difference just those changes would make.

Heavy power shrugs are amazing for your traps. I can't recommend this exercise enough.
For your shoulders, just do as much overhead work as you can. Standing overhead press with a barbell is a good one to use as a base.

For lats, get a pull up bar in your house. They are pretty cheap; mine was 10-20 dollars. You can do body weight exercises every day if you want. Look up 'Grease the Groove'.

Of course you're going to hit everything else, and not just those muscle groups. I just believe that prioritizing those muscle groups will give you the best ROI in a short period. It seems like you're pretty motivated; if you can sustain that level of enthusiasm for a year I think you can make some big changes.

Personally, I would drop the cardio and add more days of lifting. I've seen a couple studies that suggest that long steady cardio (like running 5 miles) can increase cortisol levels and therefore fat storage. I'm not an expert on the science of it but if you look at long distance runners, they usually have shitty physiques. But if you enjoy the cardio, keep it.

I don't think your flakes have much to do with your physique. Everybody gets flaked on sometimes. Just keep generating new leads and try to keep things fun for yourself. It's called game for a reason.

Bro with that running workout you have the only thing you're gonna do is run away from a good looking muscular body. I'm not going to say that what I do is "THE BEST" or optimal but it's given me results in 6 months. It's given me the kind of results that have strange women tell me I look like Gannicus. I didn't even realize I was getting big until a Haitian friend saw me one day after almost 7 months and he told me "Damn nigga you got big!".

Anyways I'll tell you what worked for me. For starters I only work out for 30-45 minutes in the gym at a time. I BBQ a lot of steak, eat eggs(with yolk) like a mother fucker and bacon. No protein shakes(but will change this soon). If I'm going to eat carbs, I try to make it oatmeal in breakfast, or sweet potatos during lunch or dinner. For veggies I take in a decent amount of red cabbage and onions. Fruits I'll eat if they are there, better ones are berries and straw berries but eat the ones you like. I don't have a strict diet but I'll cut back on sugars and the sucky carbs. I'll drench some foods in olive oil sometimes like steaks also.

I take an truck load of pills. First I'll take the super nutri pack mega potency. Google it, it is ridiculous and cheap for the amount of pills it has. Just with those packs I take like 10 pills a day. I'll then take 4000iu of vitamin D and a couple vitamin B pills. I'll also take a vitex to reduce prolactic(prolactin has been shown to reduce testosterone) and that pretty much covers that.

As for my workout it's fairly simple. I have my days dedicated to core workouts.

Core workouts:

1. Deadlift/Back
2. Squats/Legs
3. Chest

Deadlift is king. I'd do it everyday if I could that's just how I feel about it. All other muscle groups are minor to those 3 above. I can do Deadlift/Back in the morning and later on at night I'll do shoulders(another 45 minutes). As you can guess I never run, you won't see me on bikes, treadmills fuck that shit. I'll watch the girls on em though.

Yea I forgot to mention I go to the gym twice a day some times. As long as I give my body 6 hours rest I can train another muscle group just fine.

Once I've knocked out my core workouts I can pretty much choose other minor muscle groups. I'll try different exercises and do them differently so my muscle has trouble adapting to the movements. In every workout I do I make sure I do the heaviest weight I can. The last set might be me doing 5-6 shitty ass reps but the weight is packed on and I go slow, no fast bullshit. Above all I recommend you do the weight that does not fuck you up. I did good mornings a few times and in one set I felt a strange slightly warm sensation in the area where intestinal hernias can form and I just put the weight back on the rack and left the gym a split second after. Don't try to be a tough guy and push yourself when you're body is signaling disaster, when ever I feel pain I leave. So anyway that's my advice. Good nutrition, good sumplementation and gym time 45 minutes 6-10 times a week, heavy ass weights will give you that body you want. And trust me 45 minutes you'll feel like you're almost cheating.

After a year of doing this solid, you can do what I'm doing. I joined an MMA gym. These mother fuckers give me the cardio of my life. They pin me down against the cage(that's how we start) and I'm supposed to come up from that position while the guy tries to keep me down, and while I'm at it he's punching my rib cage or looking to submit me. A few times I felt like I was gonna die the cardio is so intense from doing this(easy to guess that my endurance level is shit from the workout routine i outlines above). So I'll take MMA over treadmilling anyday, but that's just me, maybe you like basketball.

And the chicks in the States are gonna flake on you regardless, you can't help that unless you are a millionaire or world famous. My advice for that is go for chicks abroad, plain and simple.

Loving these replies guys. Lots of food for thought!!

Hammer got it pretty much covered above and since you are already doing reasonable Paleo I can't even bitch about your nutrition.

I would shift your extended cardio routine over to something like HIIT, lift really heavy stuff (no fancy gym machines, just manly iron) and incorporate bodyweight exercises.

Keep it up.

I agree with rionomad head to bb.com or something for specific advice.

That being said the number one thing you should reconsider about your plan is what you want most.

Your plan reads likeyou got really stoked and wrote down everything you could think of that's related to your goals.

Just pick one thing and go hard on it for at least 6 months. eg. You sound like you want size more than anything.
Pick a program like stronglifts and follow it to the letter. Eat your face off, but follow simple rules 90% of the time like eating all whole foods... Nobody ever got huge on a paleo diet. Cut out the cardio unless you find yourself getting too fat.

If you try to do 2 things at once you're goinf to get mediocre results. You can get big without becoming a fatass, its just that most people decide pizza is more delicious than steak+eggs+kale

Just as a side note, the girls flaked on you because of your game, not your body size. Don't be pinning everything on that.

If you want to still do cardio then head to the track or field and do some 200 or 400 meter repeats. 400 meter dash is the hardest run out there.

Great thread. Here are the highlights.

Quote: (06-27-2013 06:13 AM)MattC Wrote:  

girls flaked on you because of your game, not your body size.

Quote: (06-27-2013 02:31 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

if you train like a runner you will have the physique of a runner

Quote: (06-27-2013 02:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

boring but big routine with twenty rep squats

Quote: (06-27-2013 03:17 AM)Hammer Wrote:  

Deadlift

Quote: (06-27-2013 03:07 AM)Young T.R. Wrote:  

shoulders. Lats will help too.
Standing overhead press with a barbell
pull ups

Quote: (06-27-2013 05:21 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

Just pick one thing ... like stronglifts

Quote: (06-27-2013 12:46 AM)ballsyamog Wrote:  

- compound lifts.
- 3 weight sessions, one 30 min HIIT cardio, one 5 miler.

I agree with deemphasizing cardio. At most one long run per week, and shorten the HIIT.
http://www.brinkzone.com/training-progra...-doing-it/

Three weight sessions per week is fine. Stronglifts, or Starting Strength.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program

The point is that you don't need to work out ten times per week. If you are doing deadlifts then you don't need shrugs. If you do bench press, then you can delay shoulder press to the next workout. Prioritize and focus.

Young T.R gave a good reply to your question.

The good thing is that you don't look bad, you are young and have plenty of time to build a physique. I am sure most of us looked pretty close to that at 17, I am in my 40's and been at it for some time.

I would say keep it simple, you don't need a personal trainer and you don't need to take anything fancy.

Your weak areas is your upper body, which you can improve quickly. Simple pull ups is a great exercise that has been mentioned, they will build up your arms, back and shoulders. Push-ups will build up your chest and arms nicely, try and do a hundred a day. I believe there is a thread about that on here. Do different variations of push-ups as well, my favourite are when my feet are on the bed.

I would start slow with the basic compound exercises and then work up to deadlifts, squats etc. Then main thing is don't get caught up in the weight that you are lifting, proper form is the only way to go.

Quote: (06-27-2013 02:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If I were in your situation I'd do nothing but a boring but big routine with twenty rep squats thrown in for like twelve weeks and gomad/dirty bulk on whole milk and donuts like a fatass.
I wouldn't bother with any hiit or cardio until I broke 175+ or turned into a giant tub of shit. I remember being 155 in high school and did not like it.

Maybe you want to tailor this approach because otherwise you're going to need all new clothes (especially pants) but I think it's worth considering.

He's gonna become a fat fuck if he does GOMAD + donuts. I'd say GOMAD is good for a 120 pound twig only. First he needs to get on a proper routine and eat in a not too high of a surplus.

Its weird, I'm about the same weight as you, 5'8, have more muscle but fat as well. I think I just have a really small bone structure or something.

Anyways, I think you have to do what I want to avoid doing as well.

Put on weight. It's awesome in that you put on muscle, but fat comes along with is as well.

I think we both need to put on something like 15-20 pounds over an 8 month period or so, and then try to get cut up.

I'm trying to get cut at 155 when I have very little to cut to.

Every10 knows whats up, ill bet you were skinny fat before, youve got those baby bearing hips... Clean bulk dont get crazy with the calories, NO GOMAD . Also i dont ser anything wrong with posting this here a lot of guys are more than qualified to give advice at bb.com youll probably just get trolled

Thanks again for more constructive replies!

As dog24 says at BB I would probably get trolled and a bunch of negative replies amongst a few good ones.

This forum always delivers 90%+ positive responses and I love that.

Agree with others that say go to bb.com for advice on that.

If I were you, I would drop the fat and worry about muscle later. Ask any girl, they like a medium-sized guy with a six-pack a lot more than a big guy with a gut. Getting huge is a guy thing. You try to get big first and it'll take you a year and a half before you get a great body. But you can drop that fat and get a great body in a month or two.